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Mandatory Group Dungeon Scaling Messes Over Players
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adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »How is that mean-spirited?
The dungeons were designed, from the beginning, for groups of four people. The developers never intended for them to be beaten by any less than that, regardless of how much you overlevel the content
It's mean-spirited because they took away an option, albeit an unintended one, which was there and hurting nobody. It wasn't an exploit. It wasn't unbalancing the game. As I said we got no loot, no XP, and a trash reward for our trouble. Who exactly were we disadvantaging by being able to play like that?nerevarine1138 wrote: »You can still do dungeons for the fun and the story (the same reason many people did them prior to scaling), but now you'll have to actually do them with a full group. Surely you and your friend can stand the addition of two more people.
Maybe we are shy and lack the confidence to group up with two complete strangers. Maybe we run sub-optimal "roleplay" builds which would get laughed out of a serious raid group. Maybe we think our characters have a particular synergy which would be spoiled by involving someone else. Maybe we are just anti-social.
My point is that nothing was being damaged by the ability to play this way, and there are clearly others who enjoyed it too or this thread wouldn't exist, so the developers explicitly trying to squash it feels mean-spirited to me.
9 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Mandatory group dungeon scaling messes over me and my friends who happily pay for this otherwise excellent game. Why? Because we roll with small groups of real-life friends who don't like to optimize but who do want to have a great time playing a co-op game. We do not want a game that punishes us for having a chill time in our own instance where we aren't bothering anyone or taking away from their experience.
I mostly play with my wife. Duo is the perfect power level for us: roaming the overland areas with a backup means world bosses are tough-but-survivable, trash mobs are trash, and Dark Anchors are a legit challenge. Delves are just about right, with a partner who can back you up when the bosses get in those lucky hits. But group dungeons are now completely impossible with the mandatory scaling. That awesome time we had going back to Fungal Grotto every 5 levels, again and again, gaining in confidence and skill each time, just to see when we could finally get high enough level to make it through to the end with just two players? We can say goodbye to that and I can say goodbye to getting a chance to level up my Undaunted so that I can get some of those sweet group skills I've been looking forward to.
We played DDO for years because they did dungeon scaling right: giving you a choice of how hard you wanted it to be, and you traded ease for worse loot and less XP. Give us a choice, ZOS. You know, like we were adults.
WoW you super casuals will really find anything and everything to complain about won't you...7 -
kewl✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wouldn't expect ZOS to make scaling optional anytime soon, if ever. The management team seems to think they know what we want, better than we do.3 -
leandro.800ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Well we invite a VR we want to level de dungeon then enter then change leader then kick VR then we go as 4 VR14 in a VR level we want.
So if we can do this why not just a button to avoid all the fuzz ??6 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »Well we invite a VR we want to level de dungeon then enter then change leader then kick VR then we go as 4 VR14 in a VR level we want.
So if we can do this why not just a button to avoid all the fuzz ??
Interesting. Another case of players finding the solution before ZOS even acknowledges there is a problem. Kudos to you.
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adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »Well we invite a VR we want to level de dungeon then enter then change leader then kick VR then we go as 4 VR14 in a VR level we want.
So if we can do this why not just a button to avoid all the fuzz ??
Interesting. Another case of players finding the solution before ZOS even acknowledges there is a problem. Kudos to you.
No! Don't let them know that we know.
Watch out for "group dungeons will now re-scale when the group leader changes" coming in the next update.
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Syntse✭✭✭✭✭As kewl said most likely there will not be change for the scaling for long time if ever. However I can offer some tips here to overcome.
From this thread we can see there are several people who play as duo having issues to group. Why not friend each other and you'll find group to do the dungeons easier, and they should be as like minded as you are based on this thread.
Better yet join guild that is pretty much created for this purpose.
One possibility that seems like bug to me is that form group with one of your low level chars and then your friend/partner higher lvl char, enter dungeon with low lvl char as leader. Now low level logs out and picks his/hers high lvl char gets invited to group and there ya go. We just noticed this accidentally that seems multiple chars from one account can be in same group.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]6 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »Well we invite a VR we want to level de dungeon then enter then change leader then kick VR then we go as 4 VR14 in a VR level we want.
So if we can do this why not just a button to avoid all the fuzz ??
Interesting. Another case of players finding the solution before ZOS even acknowledges there is a problem. Kudos to you.
No! Don't let them know that we know.
Watch out for "group dungeons will now re-scale when the group leader changes" coming in the next update.
As it should. Doing dungeons designed for 4 ppl with 2 goes against the spirit of the design of the game and should not be allowed.4 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »Well we invite a VR we want to level de dungeon then enter then change leader then kick VR then we go as 4 VR14 in a VR level we want.
So if we can do this why not just a button to avoid all the fuzz ??
Interesting. Another case of players finding the solution before ZOS even acknowledges there is a problem. Kudos to you.
No! Don't let them know that we know.
Watch out for "group dungeons will now re-scale when the group leader changes" coming in the next update.
As it should. Doing dungeons designed for 4 ppl with 2 goes against the spirit of the design of the game and should not be allowed.
You must be joking!!!
What's next? Dolmen will not start if there is only one present?9 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »How is that mean-spirited?
The dungeons were designed, from the beginning, for groups of four people. The developers never intended for them to be beaten by any less than that, regardless of how much you overlevel the content
It's mean-spirited because they took away an option, albeit an unintended one, which was there and hurting nobody. It wasn't an exploit. It wasn't unbalancing the game. As I said we got no loot, no XP, and a trash reward for our trouble. Who exactly were we disadvantaging by being able to play like that?nerevarine1138 wrote: »You can still do dungeons for the fun and the story (the same reason many people did them prior to scaling), but now you'll have to actually do them with a full group. Surely you and your friend can stand the addition of two more people.
Maybe we are shy and lack the confidence to group up with two complete strangers. Maybe we run sub-optimal "roleplay" builds which would get laughed out of a serious raid group. Maybe we think our characters have a particular synergy which would be spoiled by involving someone else. Maybe we are just anti-social.
My point is that nothing was being damaged by the ability to play this way, and there are clearly others who enjoyed it too or this thread wouldn't exist, so the developers explicitly trying to squash it feels mean-spirited to me.
The problem is catering to people who don't clear the content as it's intended to be cleared, even if it's harmless, takes up development time and resources and there are more important bugs & additions to do to the game that will influence everybody whereas what you're asking for will only affect a few people that aren't supposed to be doing that in the first place.
If you're antisocial, or what ever the reasons cited before that makes you not want to group, then you must accept that you won't be able to clear every content of the game.
If they do this, then it would also be fair to do solo instances for solo players in order to allow them to beat every group dungeon because they also want to experience the story? Except the story is meant to be lived by four people, not 2 or 1.Edited by TehMagnus on November 17, 2014 12:52PM2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »How is that mean-spirited?
The dungeons were designed, from the beginning, for groups of four people. The developers never intended for them to be beaten by any less than that, regardless of how much you overlevel the content
It's mean-spirited because they took away an option, albeit an unintended one, which was there and hurting nobody. It wasn't an exploit. It wasn't unbalancing the game. As I said we got no loot, no XP, and a trash reward for our trouble. Who exactly were we disadvantaging by being able to play like that?nerevarine1138 wrote: »You can still do dungeons for the fun and the story (the same reason many people did them prior to scaling), but now you'll have to actually do them with a full group. Surely you and your friend can stand the addition of two more people.
Maybe we are shy and lack the confidence to group up with two complete strangers. Maybe we run sub-optimal "roleplay" builds which would get laughed out of a serious raid group. Maybe we think our characters have a particular synergy which would be spoiled by involving someone else. Maybe we are just anti-social.
My point is that nothing was being damaged by the ability to play this way, and there are clearly others who enjoyed it too or this thread wouldn't exist, so the developers explicitly trying to squash it feels mean-spirited to me.
No one said you were disadvantaging other players, but the developers created a game where that was not the intended style of play. It makes sense that they will tweak their design to stop people from circumventing that.
And if you're shy, get more gregarious. If your builds are sub-optimal, find RP guilds (there are many) who will be happy to run with you. These are dungeons, not raids. I've yet to encounter a dungeon group where someone's build was critiqued (with the exception of a tank who wasn't actually taunting). If you're anti-social, that's your problem. This is an MMO, and parts of it are going to require socialization with people you might not know in real life (unless all your friends play the game). Get used to it.
There are lots of people who enjoy exploiting PvP. There are lots of people who enjoy having the superpower of flight. Game designers are not going to please everyone, nor should they.----
Murray?3 -
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem is catering to people who don't clear the content as it's intended to be cleared, even if it's harmless, takes up development time and resources and there are more important bugs & additions to do to the game that will influence everybody whereas what you're asking for will only affect a few people that aren't supposed to be doing that in the first place.
This is a fair point, generally speaking, but in this particular case I don't think it holds water. I know enough about coding that I'm pretty sure it would be trivial to make the scaling optional. It's like one extra UI toggle next to the normal/veteran one and a check or two in the code to see if it's been pressed at the time the instance has been created. This is not asking for the whole game to be changed from the ground up to accommodate a minority play-style.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »The problem is catering to people who don't clear the content as it's intended to be cleared, even if it's harmless, takes up development time and resources and there are more important bugs & additions to do to the game that will influence everybody whereas what you're asking for will only affect a few people that aren't supposed to be doing that in the first place.
This is a fair point, generally speaking, but in this particular case I don't think it holds water. I know enough about coding that I'm pretty sure it would be trivial to make the scaling optional. It's like one extra UI toggle next to the normal/veteran one and a check or two in the code to see if it's been pressed at the time the instance has been created. This is not asking for the whole game to be changed from the ground up to accommodate a minority play-style.
Except the old dungeon coding was overwritten in order to allow scaling. They'd have to have a separate version of each dungeon that stayed at its initial level in order to accommodate a very, very small portion of the playerbase that was already playing in a way the developers never designed the game to be played.----
Murray?1 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭im sorry but the compaints i am seeing are mostly reguarding not playing as intended.
the comment about fungal grotto for instant, you are not intended to be able to do those with just 2 people.
this game may be kind of scaled small atm but its still a MMO, where the number for group content is usually well above just 2.
so..
A. Find someone to scale it for you.
or
B. Find more members instead of complaining on the forums...I play every class in every situation. I love them all.5 -
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Except the old dungeon coding was overwritten in order to allow scaling. They'd have to have a separate version of each dungeon that stayed at its initial level in order to accommodate a very, very small portion of the playerbase that was already playing in a way the developers never designed the game to be played.
They wouldn't have to accommodate anything, because as it stands you can already "trick" the instance into scaling down by going in with a lowbie group leader. All that would be needed would be a UI toggle and a tiny bit of code to make this happen on demand.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Except the old dungeon coding was overwritten in order to allow scaling. They'd have to have a separate version of each dungeon that stayed at its initial level in order to accommodate a very, very small portion of the playerbase that was already playing in a way the developers never designed the game to be played.
They wouldn't have to accommodate anything, because as it stands you can already "trick" the instance into scaling down by going in with a lowbie group leader. All that would be needed would be a UI toggle and a tiny bit of code to make this happen on demand.
Yes, you can "trick" the instances, but that isn't the same as writing code for a magic switch. And the point remains: this was never how the developers intended dungeons to be played. It's their game, their rules.----
Murray?2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »The problem is catering to people who don't clear the content as it's intended to be cleared, even if it's harmless, takes up development time and resources and there are more important bugs & additions to do to the game that will influence everybody whereas what you're asking for will only affect a few people that aren't supposed to be doing that in the first place.
This is a fair point, generally speaking, but in this particular case I don't think it holds water. I know enough about coding that I'm pretty sure it would be trivial to make the scaling optional. It's like one extra UI toggle next to the normal/veteran one and a check or two in the code to see if it's been pressed at the time the instance has been created. This is not asking for the whole game to be changed from the ground up to accommodate a minority play-style.
Except the old dungeon coding was overwritten in order to allow scaling. They'd have to have a separate version of each dungeon that stayed at its initial level in order to accommodate a very, very small portion of the playerbase that was already playing in a way the developers never designed the game to be played.
True.
Nothing is trivial in developing anyways it looks like it for people who don't work in IT dev, but it really really isn't.0 -
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Yes, you can "trick" the instances, but that isn't the same as writing code for a magic switch.
I really think you're over-estimating how much dev time and effort would need to go into this, but hey neither of us has actually seen the code I suppose.nerevarine1138 wrote: »And the point remains: this was never how the developers intended dungeons to be played. It's their game, their rules.
This is undeniably true, but that kind of "my way or the highway" attitude doesn't sit right for me in a game which originally had "play how you want" as its tag line.
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nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Yes, you can "trick" the instances, but that isn't the same as writing code for a magic switch.
I really think you're over-estimating how much dev time and effort would need to go into this, but hey neither of us has actually seen the code I suppose.nerevarine1138 wrote: »And the point remains: this was never how the developers intended dungeons to be played. It's their game, their rules.
This is undeniably true, but that kind of "my way or the highway" attitude doesn't sit right for me in a game which originally had "play how you want" as its tag line.
That tagline never meant that you could do anything at all that you ever wanted. There are always going to be limits and restrictions on content, especially when it comes to group content.----
Murray?5 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »The problem is catering to people who don't clear the content as it's intended to be cleared, even if it's harmless, takes up development time and resources and there are more important bugs & additions to do to the game that will influence everybody whereas what you're asking for will only affect a few people that aren't supposed to be doing that in the first place.
This is a fair point, generally speaking, but in this particular case I don't think it holds water. I know enough about coding that I'm pretty sure it would be trivial to make the scaling optional. It's like one extra UI toggle next to the normal/veteran one and a check or two in the code to see if it's been pressed at the time the instance has been created. This is not asking for the whole game to be changed from the ground up to accommodate a minority play-style.
Except the old dungeon coding was overwritten in order to allow scaling. They'd have to have a separate version of each dungeon that stayed at its initial level in order to accommodate a very, very small portion of the playerbase that was already playing in a way the developers never designed the game to be played.
Why do you think so? In what way does a dungeon change based on the levels of players entering it?2 -
Psychobunni✭✭✭✭✭
✭@oy2001 Judging by the number of silent agrees, you aren't alone in the want to play how you want verses how ZOS wants you to. Don't let the arguments dampen your fire, just look how many skill nerfs have occurred because "oh noes! I died in Cyro, nerf it" screaming.
If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!6 -
Izzban✭✭✭I would like to see some evidence that the developers do not want less than 4 players going into a group dungeon. You can all stop telling us what the devs intended, until you can provide evidence of it. What you think the devs intended means nothing.
Here is some evidence that the devs don't really care how many players go into a group dungeon; Any number of players under 4 can go in. It's really as simple as that. If the devs really wanted only 4 players to do their dungeons, they would have made it so that only a 4 man group could enter.
Up until the recent update, dungeons did not scale. Higher level players could go in with as many or few as they wanted to complete the content. Now they changed the group dungeons so they scale. Find where they said they did that specifically because they did not want less than 4 players going into a group dungeon. Seriously, if you can't provide that, then stop saying that the devs intend for ONLY 4 players to do a group dungeon because you can't prove that is true and, from the above evidence, likely isn't.
The reason they added the scaling to the dungeons has nothing whatsoever to do with the higher level players going into a group dungeon with too few players. It was for money. They just added some 15+ variable level playable dungeons to the game without designing a single one. A brilliant stroke to increase the content for those that like grouping. What logical path leads anyone to believe that this was done to prevent players from going into the dungeons with too few players? You make no sense, saying that.
It would have been far easier to simply make it so you can't zone into the dungeon without a full group of 4. Why didn't they do that if their intention was to stop players from going in without a full group?
What was the problem the devs were trying to fix if they did indeed create scaling to prevent smaller than 4 groups from going into a group dungeon? Was there some reason that casuals gamers playing through a dungeon 20 levels below them (for little reward) in a group of 2 or 3 was damaging the game?
I remember in the early days, yuotube vids of players soloing or 2-manning high level group content. Players praised their leet skills and tried to emulate them. I don't recall anything being said by the devs along the lines of, "we don't want that to happen, so we are going to introduce scaling". Those players were already on-level with the content, but I guess it's ok for a duo or a solo player to spend hours in a group dungeon, and get full rewards for completion, if they are doing it on-level. If that is the case, then it's not actually the number of players going into a group setting that some players object to. It's that casual gamers are doing it....
I just can't think of any reason the devs would truly CARE how many players go into a dungeon other than to ensure it's not too easy to get rewards.
tldr
Devs didn't add scaling to stop over level players from duoing group dungeons. Show where they said that or stop with the "intended" argument.
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Izzban✭✭✭Mandatory group dungeon scaling messes over me and my friends who happily pay for this otherwise excellent game. Why? Because we roll with small groups of real-life friends who don't like to optimize but who do want to have a great time playing a co-op game. We do not want a game that punishes us for having a chill time in our own instance where we aren't bothering anyone or taking away from their experience.
I mostly play with my wife. Duo is the perfect power level for us: roaming the overland areas with a backup means world bosses are tough-but-survivable, trash mobs are trash, and Dark Anchors are a legit challenge. Delves are just about right, with a partner who can back you up when the bosses get in those lucky hits. But group dungeons are now completely impossible with the mandatory scaling. That awesome time we had going back to Fungal Grotto every 5 levels, again and again, gaining in confidence and skill each time, just to see when we could finally get high enough level to make it through to the end with just two players? We can say goodbye to that and I can say goodbye to getting a chance to level up my Undaunted so that I can get some of those sweet group skills I've been looking forward to.
We played DDO for years because they did dungeon scaling right: giving you a choice of how hard you wanted it to be, and you traded ease for worse loot and less XP. Give us a choice, ZOS. You know, like we were adults.
You likely have already worked this out, but you can:
- group with your wife with a lower level alt
- go in and set the dungeon level at the alts level
- then switch to the character you want to play the dungeon with
At least then you don't have to search for someone just the right level, but you do have to have an alt at a certain level. Not ideal and I would like to see them give better choices on dungeon level.
2 -
Alliel✭✭I don't know, but it is like they are trying to make the game worse instead of making it better.8 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭
I agree, going in to these low level dungeons alone or with two players was fun.Mandatory group dungeon scaling messes over me and my friends who happily pay for this otherwise excellent game. Why? Because we roll with small groups of real-life friends who don't like to optimize but who do want to have a great time playing a co-op game. We do not want a game that punishes us for having a chill time in our own instance where we aren't bothering anyone or taking away from their experience.
I mostly play with my wife. Duo is the perfect power level for us: roaming the overland areas with a backup means world bosses are tough-but-survivable, trash mobs are trash, and Dark Anchors are a legit challenge. Delves are just about right, with a partner who can back you up when the bosses get in those lucky hits. But group dungeons are now completely impossible with the mandatory scaling. That awesome time we had going back to Fungal Grotto every 5 levels, again and again, gaining in confidence and skill each time, just to see when we could finally get high enough level to make it through to the end with just two players? We can say goodbye to that and I can say goodbye to getting a chance to level up my Undaunted so that I can get some of those sweet group skills I've been looking forward to.
We played DDO for years because they did dungeon scaling right: giving you a choice of how hard you wanted it to be, and you traded ease for worse loot and less XP. Give us a choice, ZOS. You know, like we were adults.
Ironically you can still adjust the level of the dungeon. Let's say you are VR12 and you want to play the dungeon at VR1. One of your group needs to switch to an alt that is VR1, go in and then switch back to another character. So it's already possible, just very inconvenient. That means those players who want to do it already will do it, but they will have a terrible experience.
So I am all for giving players the choice. It's an easy fix, ZOS, is it not?4 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »I like the idea in theory. It keeps the content relevant as you level up. However, it should be optional. If I want to go back to a level 12 group dungeon on my V14 and stomp the crap out of it, I should be able to.
In fact, I am able to do that. I just need a low level leader in my party to remove the dungeon scaling. This right here is the reason why it should be optional... because it already is if you're willing to jump through hoops to do it. We actually have the ability to keep the dungeons at their original intended level but only if we find a lowbie to group with us before stepping in. Why not remove that barrier and just make it optional upon entry.
Actually, if you are running a non-vet instance of a dungeon, having a Vet toon in your group will scale it to veteran level and lock out non-vet toons regardless of who the leader is.
I tested this by grouping my lvl 17 character (as group leader) with a V14 and even though I set the group mode to normal, it did not let me get into the dungeon because my "veteran rank was not high enough".
Now, this is not an issue for lower level characters who are doing the dungeons at level, but once you get to the Zone 5 dungeons (Selene's Web, Blessed Crucible and Blackheart Haven) or Vaults of Madness, you are really limiting your pool as many folks are near or at V1 when they get around to those, but not all are, so you are splitting your potential player pool in two when it shouldn't.
The Moot Councillor4 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »Well we invite a VR we want to level de dungeon then enter then change leader then kick VR then we go as 4 VR14 in a VR level we want.
So if we can do this why not just a button to avoid all the fuzz ??
Interesting. Another case of players finding the solution before ZOS even acknowledges there is a problem. Kudos to you.
No! Don't let them know that we know.
Watch out for "group dungeons will now re-scale when the group leader changes" coming in the next update.
As it should. Doing dungeons designed for 4 ppl with 2 goes against the spirit of the design of the game and should not be allowed.
You must be joking!!!
What's next? Dolmen will not start if there is only one present?
Shhh.... Don't give them ideas...The Moot Councillor5 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »adriant1978 wrote: »The problem is catering to people who don't clear the content as it's intended to be cleared, even if it's harmless, takes up development time and resources and there are more important bugs & additions to do to the game that will influence everybody whereas what you're asking for will only affect a few people that aren't supposed to be doing that in the first place.
This is a fair point, generally speaking, but in this particular case I don't think it holds water. I know enough about coding that I'm pretty sure it would be trivial to make the scaling optional. It's like one extra UI toggle next to the normal/veteran one and a check or two in the code to see if it's been pressed at the time the instance has been created. This is not asking for the whole game to be changed from the ground up to accommodate a minority play-style.
Except the old dungeon coding was overwritten in order to allow scaling. They'd have to have a separate version of each dungeon that stayed at its initial level in order to accommodate a very, very small portion of the playerbase that was already playing in a way the developers never designed the game to be played.
While the old coding was overwritten, the dungeons all still have a minimum level.
I can't take a group of 4 level 5 characters into Fungal Grotto and have it be level 5. It will still be level 12-14. So the "Base Level" code is still there, it just gets overridden by the group leader's level if they are above it.
I don't see how putting in a bit of "If Scaling switch == OFF, then {Base Level}, else start {Group Leader Scaling}" code would be difficult.The Moot Councillor5 -
nerevarine1138 wrote: »Except the old dungeon coding was overwritten in order to allow scaling. They'd have to have a separate version of each dungeon that stayed at its initial level in order to accommodate a very, very small portion of the playerbase that was already playing in a way the developers never designed the game to be played.
You are assuming that the portion of players who isn't doing 4 man groups is very very small. I know quite a few players playing this game, and a LOT of them prefer to group in 2 or 3 man groups for various reasons. I myself spent the first 4 months of this game doing mostly 2 and 3 man groups because we're all close friends and wanted to play together on a scheduled weekly basis. It's only recently we added a 4th player, and all four of us started new chars to level together. We still sometimes run those 2 and 3 player groups, though.
So, please refrain from assuming how much of the player base is doing what - you do NOT know, clearly. There are MANY MANY different play styles out there - and all of them are being played by a significant number of players. And all of them are equally valid - including trying to play the game solo or in smaller groups than 4. Don't project your own play style on everyone else.
As for the dungeon leveling, I'm on the fence about it -- while I remember what a huge sense of accomplishment it was for our 3 man group to *finally* finish Fungal Grotto after many attempts, I also like the idea of some scaling, and as people said, you can make your group leader a lower level char and then switch them out. And since I'm running 8 chars of various levels, that's not hard to do.4 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adriant1978 wrote: »
If this is true, I think it's pretty mean-spirited. I don't see how me and my friend over-levelling and duo'ing these things was hurting the experience for hardcore raiders who want to do them on or below level with the "correct" number of people. We got no XP or loot from the mobs and a final quest reward tens of levels too low to be useful; we just did them for fun and the story.
Its not and it doesn't affect these so called elitist players who think the game has to be hard. They just don't want casual players to have fun with the game. And, despite their claims to the contrary, that is most of the player base.
Fact of the matter is, scaling the dungeons to what ever is the easiest thing in the world to code. They could have easily left in the way it was, and introduced a higher level scaling like they have now. Why, because we can scale a dungeon just by making a low level the group leader.
These two guys in the thread just don't want to get your casual player cooties because they somehow think it will just ruin the game for them. Which kind of makes me wonder just how good a player they really are, given that they spend more of their time telling everyone how dedicated and skilled they need to be to keep up with them.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"9