General_Kefka wrote: »

Is that why some random group just destroyed our #1 time...nice to know i put in 100 hrs on Vet DSA (Between PTS and Live) just to our time destroyed to stealth nerf. Thanks alot, why even try to post good times anymore if u just nerf it...

KEEP Normal for the Scrubbies and Hardmode for the ELITISTS!

If you're referring to the now #2 group - were not a random group or we are as random as you are to us I suppose. The nerf is a joke, but we were #8 pre-patch and are now #2 post patch. Hopefully soon to be #1, so dont worry too much

(Also had all PVP buffs when finishing #2 run, which EP have not had since release of DSA, but AD and DC have had often - you've had plenty of time to get a good time)

- edit - completely assumed you were on EU. sorry if you're NA.

@Michaeljdaveyb16_ESO

This issue is really not about you, me, or anyone else beating someone´s time, mate. The topic is about competition on the same leaderboard under very (VERY) different circumstances.

I bow before you that you did great job even without PvP buffs, and I really appreciate it. PvP buffs affecting PvE is another very bad thing for PvE competition, in my opinion.

However, how is it fair to compare 1.4 times to 1.5 times, if the nerf and massive difficulty decrease is a bug? It is fair to compare something done thanks to a bug to something done fair way? Leaderboards should be reflecting dedication, and not development mistakes.

I'll offer a point of view as someone who almost completed vet dsa before the patch and just completed it after 1.5.

First, the last boss which is the hardest part of the arena.
Before the patch our group had him best at 10% after doing 20-30 pulls and hours of practice, the best we got was 87 resses when we entered the last arena.
After the patch we killed him on our 4th pull and had 96 resses available when we entered the last arena.
However I did not notice any changes on the last boss, in terms of health everything had the same hp, mini-boss heavy attack was hitting for 70% hp while blocking, I died in nova extremely quickly and the fire < 20% still killed 1 person.
So I would attribute the successful kill of the last boss to more practice and slight change of tactic and getting better with timings, but I would not argue if someone said the last boss was easier because the incoming damage was reduced.

The arenas beforehand are a different story. The bosses seemed to be more or less the same, but the waves before were much easier at least in the first 5 arenas. 9th arena seemed a bit more difficult as they increased the jonycent named add hp from 17k to 21k and they spawned at different times, but I was killing the ghosts downstairs so I can't comment on whether the fight was easier upstairs while the add was immune, so it is possible that even the 9th arena was easier. Again our group was able to clear the first 9 arenas with <20 deaths before the patch, so people who were really struggling before may notice the changes more.

In principle I agree with Finneas that it is much easier to get a lower time now as you can clear the mob waves in arenas faster and are in less danger of dying, but I would not as far as to say that vet dsa is now puggable and 90% of players will still not get even close to completing it but I could imagine a good pug doing the first 5-6 arenas if someone explained tactics to them.

It is really unfortunate that people who completed the arena when it was harder can now have their time beaten in this easier version and I would not be opposed to rolling back the leaderboard, but it would be kind of pointless as in the future patches the relative player power will keep increasing and it will get easier and easier to get better times.

What I would like to see is for the future have a special reward for players who complete hard content when it is current. As an example, which I know will probably not happen, you could get a special titles or vanity items for completing the veteran dsa or sanctum ophidia, and after a new patch is released, these things would no longer be obtainable.

@Radixo

Radixo wrote: »

It is really unfortunate that people who completed the arena when it was harder can now have their time beaten in this easier version and I would not be opposed to rolling back the leaderboard, but it would be kind of pointless as in the future patches the relative player power will keep increasing and it will get easier and easier to get better times.

Careful here, not pointless. There is a huge difference between better time acquired by increasing power of player characters in patches (intended), and time obtained because of a bug. 1.5 times are obtained under bugged conditions (not intended).

Radixo wrote: »

What I would like to see is for the future have a special reward for players who complete hard content when it is current.

Very good idea.


@Metalxead

Metalxead wrote: »

If ZOS remove PVP buffs, some of PVP campain's will be abandoned 4ever, and maybe half of playes just leave PVP coz of 0 profit for PVE.

You are right, but if you look at EU server campaigns, one or two are alive, and rest are dominated by one faction to get the PvP buffs. If those one sided campaigns will disappear, I won´t mind.

Kraen wrote: »

Many people and mainly raiders who bothered to complete Sanctum Ophidia in patch 1.4 probably already know that the Trial was nerfed hard in 1.5 and now has no difficulty at all compared to previous version. But its not the only place that was hit by nerfbat..

Dragonstar Arena Veteran, the dungeon that was supposed to bring "nightmare difficulty" according to devs themselves, Dragonstar Arena Veteran, that was supposed to be complete-able only by the best, was nerfed hard as well.


Zenimax, why did you nerf DSA veteran? There is already easymode for everyone (normal difficulty), why did you nerf the only hard 4 man content in this game into the oblivion? What is "Veteran" about Dragonstar Arena now? You made the dungeon trivial. You destroyed the best group experience in the game by this step. And the worst thing - You didnt even tell that to us in patch notes.


The thing that pisses me most is actually the fact that you didnt tell us in patch notes. You did not write a single thing about lowering difficulty of DSA vet and Sanctum Ophidia. You are not being honest. Thats whats saddest.


May I know the reson behind destruction of the only hard content in this game? Why did you do this? And why didnt you tell us in advance?

I am feeling cheated. Was the nerf of Dragonstar Arena Veteran intended? @Zos_GinaBruno

Poison King!

Poison King doesnt approve.

Yeah... so, it's quite a bit easier. See 83 minute completion SS attached.

Also, 0 for 8 for Masters Weapons drops our last few runs.

The amount of stupidity in there is it what makes it so hard to believe it was not intended. I´m sorry for my harsh words but I don´t know how to impress more politely how I feel about it.

I just hope for Zenimax sake, that they will wipe the leaderboard CLEAN or at least REMOVE the new times that people got during this Screw up nerf. Me and many more spent Hours after Hours in DSA just to get the tactic right and to complete it with a good time (115min for me), but now with this Extremely Nerf the times before 1.5 just got crushed to oblivion. Like that 83min time, it's gonna me more or less impossible to beat that time in the none-nerfed DSA veteran. Which will make the leaderboard just pointless.

So you people at Zenimax better starts to take responsibility for these kind of screw ups, or those more Hardcore PvE players will probably starts to leave and find another more challenging MMORPG.

Kraen wrote: »

@zbtiqua‌

Congratulations, and I hope you support rollback of leaderboards as well after you saw the "difficulty".


@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

What are you going to do about times made in this "nerf" period? Time of 83 minutes is pretty much unbeatable in normal environment. Are you going to rollback / wipe the leaderboards like you did with the Trial ones when times created by exploit took the first places?

I would support going back to the Pre-1.5 leaderboards. That is to say, I think it is reasonable that all the times made during the 1.5 nerf should be wiped. However, I don't like the idea of wiping the entire board personally, because I worked hard for those legit times.

Obviously the 83 minute time is ridiculous. But I had a legit 123 min time that was not easy to get.

Dragonstar Arena was, as I understood it, ment to be challangeing and competetive 4-man trial. Since the nerf in 1.5.3 neither of these conditions was realised.
challangeing: To be completely fair, stage 7,8 and 10 didn't have a change, they were same difficulty as they used to be. However, at stage 1 - 3 and 5 our groups main healer was in actually a nightblade (who was dps'ing), as I (the healer) spent most of my time DPS'ing, as there was no need for heals. Can this be said be challangeing, as a DPs with single target dps on ~1.3k is main healer as well?
competetive: One easy way to see, how easy DSA was compared to pre 1.5.3 is the leaderboards. pre 1.5.3, there were around 17 groups in total on leaderboards, as I'm writing this there are 40. that's an increase of 23 groups in 1½ week, compared to 17 in 1½ month. This change in difficulty also means, alot of people got much better times, that's near impossible to beat now with the difficulty chnaged back to (almost) normal 1.4 difficulty.

This means to bring back the "challangeing and competetive 4-man trial" the leaderboards ahve to be wiped, if not the competetive aspect of the trial is as good as gone.
Another way to bring back the competetive aspect is to nerf DSA again to 1.5.3 difficulty, this will ruin the challangeing aspect of the trial however.

Kraen wrote: »

Round 9 is still nerfed after the patch 1.5.4.

Weekly leaderboard is also bugged.

I can confirm for the weekly leaderboard (EU).

And I hope the 9th arena will revert back to what is was, with a reset of the leaderboards, of course.