1.5 Dragonstar Arena Veteran stealthnerf - Why?

Kraen

Many people and mainly raiders who bothered to complete Sanctum Ophidia in patch 1.4 probably already know that the Trial was nerfed hard in 1.5 and now has no difficulty at all compared to previous version. But its not the only place that was hit by nerfbat..

Dragonstar Arena Veteran, the dungeon that was supposed to bring "nightmare difficulty" according to devs themselves, Dragonstar Arena Veteran, that was supposed to be complete-able only by the best, was nerfed hard as well.


Zenimax, why did you nerf DSA veteran? There is already easymode for everyone (normal difficulty), why did you nerf the only hard 4 man content in this game into the oblivion? What is "Veteran" about Dragonstar Arena now? You made the dungeon trivial. You destroyed the best group experience in the game by this step. And the worst thing - You didnt even tell that to us in patch notes.


The thing that pisses me most is actually the fact that you didnt tell us in patch notes. You did not write a single thing about lowering difficulty of DSA vet and Sanctum Ophidia. You are not being honest. Thats whats saddest.


May I know the reson behind destruction of the only hard content in this game? Why did you do this? And why didnt you tell us in advance?

I am feeling cheated. Was the nerf of Dragonstar Arena Veteran intended? @Zos_GinaBruno

Yonkit

Can you be more specific about what was changed? I didn't notice much difference in adds (haven't play dsa vet in three weeks as a reference) but the bosses did seem a bit less hp? The environment changes still are lethal, and it kinda felt about as difficult as before up until the 10th round, which we stopped on because we started too late.

I've only done it three times total but my last two times (three weeks apart) was the same. Couple wipes but mainly focus issues then less success on the final boss. Do the later stages of the final boss not hit as hard? I only remember taking him down to 45% once when I did it weeks ago, so the mechanics aren't fresh on my mind.

Kraen

Everything hits way lower. There are less mobs in each wave. Once one-shoting abilities are hitting like wet noodle.

Basically same nerfs as in SO. Tactic stack and AoE down works better than ever before.

And I am not even mentioning the negative influence of 1.5 player stats buff, that makes its part as well.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi guys, just wanted to let you know that this change was absolutely not intended, and we are actively investigating the issue. We'll let you know if we need any additional information. Thanks!

General_Kefka

Is that why some random group just destroyed our #1 time...nice to know i put in 100 hrs on Vet DSA (Between PTS and Live) just to our time destroyed to stealth nerf. Thanks alot, why even try to post good times anymore if u just nerf it...

KEEP Normal for the Scrubbies and Hardmode for the ELITISTS!

zbtiqua

sigh

TehMagnus

Well you guys should recheck level 9 then, it's easy peasy now. The spawning of the adds is completely different. @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

chaseman245

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys, just wanted to let you know that this change was absolutely not intended, and we are actively investigating the issue. We'll let you know if we need any additional information. Thanks!

Quite honestly this sounds like a cop out. The kiddies on ESO can't compete and finish (or even come close) to beating this on veteran, so they whine and complain for nerfs instead of learning how to play the game better. ZoS obliges them and then the skilled players complain. This sounds like damage control imo.

Keep it the same difficulty! Its hard for a reason, once you make end game "veteran" content easy, people will get bored and unsub. Vet DSA is not that hard if you know what your doing, have a good, coordinated group, and try different strategies. I know this from experience and have spent many hours in veteran DSA.

- Olok, DK tank, 1 of 3 DC groups to complete Vet DSA before the nerf.

deleted220701-004865

Yeah, we noticed the outgoing damage was nerfed and specifically, in wave 9, only the mini bosses spawned with the vampire boss, instead of the huge wave of adds. The group I run with has also put in a lot of hours and hard work into vetdsa. It took us a few weeks to down, we went in 3 or more times a week. And it was quite fun. We worked hard for a time under 400 mins. But we went in yesterday just trying to complete the weekly with a brand new tank who had never even done stage 10. We even took a 15 min break in the middle of it... I hope they change it back to the former difficulty and rollback the leaderboards to prepatch. My group was in the 9th spot before the patch. But we worked for it.. I'm glad to hear it may be changed back.

liquid_wolf

chaseman245 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys, just wanted to let you know that this change was absolutely not intended, and we are actively investigating the issue. We'll let you know if we need any additional information. Thanks!

Quite honestly this sounds like a cop out. The kiddies on ESO can't compete and finish (or even come close) to beating this on veteran, so they whine and complain for nerfs instead of learning how to play the game better. ZoS obliges them and then the skilled players complain. This sounds like damage control imo.

Keep it the same difficulty! Its hard for a reason, once you make end game "veteran" content easy, people will get bored and unsub. Vet DSA is not that hard if you know what your doing, have a good, coordinated group, and try different strategies. I know this from experience and have spent many hours in veteran DSA.

- Olok, DK tank, 1 of 3 DC groups to complete Vet DSA before the nerf.

Dude... you are reading far too much into that.
They state this wasn't intended... what do you want? A lie detector?

You are paranoid the CSR at the computer had to come up with a clever lie instead of simply not responding.

If ZOS intended the change, and never wanted people to know... why would they respond to a random post in the forums?

Use your brain sir... simple answers to life are usually the best.

Nifty2g

Well, hmm, DSA is the weekly and it has a nerf and apparently its not intended? Use your brains

chaseman245

liquid wolf, no one is paranoid, its using your brain like michael said. Nerfing damage out put and the amount of adds in vet DSA absoultely HAS to be intended. You can't make a mistake in coding and have all of those things happen. The only thing ZoS didn't intend for is the blowback from the skilled players hating them for nerfing content that is meant to be hard and not just facerolled through.

Erlex

Is wave 9 the only thing you saw much easier? Didn't really get much chance on DSA before 1.5 and just curious since after 1.5 getting to the last boss was pretty easy (had 90+ lives left).

liquid_wolf

This is complete paranoia... The thread has 9 responses... not 900.

They introduced a lot of changes that affect level, damage, and overall content with this patch.

There is no reason to think this simply wasn't a mistake.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Okay guys, the change in difficulty will be reverted back in our next patch, and again, the nerf was not intended to begin with. Sorry for any confusion this caused!

Jbmcely

If this was truly unintentional, I really hope there will be a roll back to the completion times.

Domander

exactly

What about the players taking advantage of this unintentional change?

Robocles

Poor babies... you won't have the fastest time now. I thought you just wanted it to be challenging.

Jbmcely

Any random group can do dsav now. The top time is now from some group who wasn't even on the board prior to the nerf. I would love to see that group even come close to 103 minutes when it is fixed. Part of it being challenging is also the friendly competition against other groups not just the dungeon itself.

NukeAllTheThings

sorry guys, it wasn't intended.....for you to notice

chaseman245

My alt completed it today as well (5th veteran complete, 2nd nerf veteran complete) and the weekly is broken. ZoS please do something about the weekly?
@chaseman245 - Olok, Daggerfall Covenant DK Tank.

xaraan

Jbmcely wrote: »

If this was truly unintentional, I really hope there will be a roll back to the completion times.

Considering the last couple groups before all this were only in the top using an exploit, they should probably get rid of permanent leaderboards all together and just stick with weekly for the weekly events.

Also, it wasn't much of a nerf, pretty much only the ninth round was a bit screwed up.

Kraen

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

We were progressing the Arena for one month to get the time of 115 minutes. We were puting our time and effort into doing probably the hardest content in this game. And now, every group of casuals can beat that time, get the title, and stuff, in 2 hours of single AoE spamming.

What are you going to do about the people that completed the Arena on this bugged easymode difficulty? Are you going to wipe leaderboards? Are you going to erase their times?

What are you going to do it to prove us that our progress was not pointless? As a player who held the world record before 1,5 bug-nerf, I ask you this.

Will you rollback the leaderboard into its pre 1.5 state?


I feel like the time I invested into this game was a waste. Prove me wrong, please.

tordr86b16_ESO

Times should be rolled back, I'll be shocked if ZOS doesn't.

Kraen

@Erlex

No, its not just Arena 9. The whole thing is WAY easier than it was in 1.4. Easy proof of mine words is number of "new Boethiah´s Scythes" that appeared right after patch. On EU server, just several groups were succesfull during the patch 1.4. And now? Hell, its PuGable.

Getting to the last boss was not so hard after some training, but as a player who invested huge amount of time into the game and play hardcore PvE (if the ESO even knows the term), I can tell you it was not an easy task.


@tordr86b16_ESO

Rollback of the leaderboards is only possible solution how to save effort of people that finished Dragonstar Arena Veteran during 1.4, on its intended difficulty. If Zenimax values time of those players, they need to rollback the leaderboards. Thanks for support.

mazrimtaimxpreub18_ESO

I really hope DSA VET gets hot-fixed asap. My friends are refusing to run it in its current state.

Metalxead

Kraen wrote: »

@ Easy proof of mine words is number of "new Boethiah´s Scythes" that appeared right after patch. On EU server, just several groups were succesfull during the patch 1.4. And now? Hell, its PuGable.

Are you really think all those *new* groups are rly hard try on VDSA whole 1,4 and didnt beat it, and than BOOM patch 1.5 hit, 10# arena nerfed to the ground and all those groups beat it coz only of this?

Still i am more sceptic aobout how huge 10# arena was nerfed, almost didnt feel different compare to 1.4.. can someone give actual numbers? LIke take numbers from 1.4 patch (video) and 1.5 numbers? Yes nerf is bad thing, but goal of this thread was just QQ here.. and if you so overskilled tryhard PVE man, where you hardmode serpent achivement? I hope you beat CoA wihtout death's and speedrun atleast.

Personaly our group (meh i didnt have any 4ppl goup before this, only 12ppl raid) just didnt touch VDSA at all, we start try it like 1 week before 1.5 patch. 2-3 runs total (not whole 2-3weeks are most of *skilled pro tryharders*) and almost kill the boss (some fails at like 35%~, dps check isnt issue at all for us). 4th run we make in 1.5, and pass the Arena #10 ofc, didnt feel any big differecne in the our timings. And i know many groups like our, who just didnt touch VDSA for some reasons, so stop blame nerf, go and make better time and reclaim *best time*, easy.

Kraen

@Metalxead

I won´t provide actual numbers, because I think the confirmation of huge nerf from community manager should be enough for you to believe it happened.


I am not saying that you are by any means worse player than me, or others that did finish DSA Veteran on patch 1.4. Maybe you had not enough time, or you didnt want so much as we did. However, you gotta admit that its wrong to nerf the difficulty and compare results acquired at that easier difficulty to results obtained at harder difficulty.

In 1.4, DSA vet was harder, and everyone who did that knows it. Groups managed to get certain times. Now, in bug-difficulty period, its easier and its much easier to obtain good time. This bug-difficulty will be hotfixed. Is it really good to compare times obtained at that bug-difficulty to times obtained at normal intended difficulty?

Leaderboards were already wiped once because of serious in-game issues. It can be easily rollbacked to keep the competition fair.


And by the way - as rest of the world, I did not finish Serpent Hardmode. However, I have Speedrun and No Death Run in City of Ash. Tbh, the dungeon was kind of a disappointment in terms of difficulty.

xaraan

I honestly don't know what Vet Arena you guys have played talking about it being pugable. We've played it through many times up to last boss before patch, and did it the other day. Other than the 9th round, the fights felt pretty much the same. I guess there could be some small shift we didn't sense, but for the most part everything played out exactly the same as before.

Domander

Robocles wrote: »

Poor babies... you won't have the fastest time now. I thought you just wanted it to be challenging.

I haven't even beaten it yet (haven't tried it since the update), but I think this is crap. I also think you should be ashamed of your post....I doubt that you are though

Metalxead

Kraen wrote: »

Point of this topic is of course to - as you say - "QQ". Getting same rewards for running 5 kilometres as someone who runs 100 metres is wrong, and everyone should actually complain about it. Its just not fair.
[/i]

Time doesn't matter. You beat arena spend 115 mins or 500 (many death's), reward remain the same - "Nightwood bow of flame" (no one from our group obtain golden master'y weapon)

As for former WOW player, personaly i am (IMHO) value the *kill* itslef, hardmodes and achivements. For examaple, i dont like to spend 10210hrs to make AA trial for 7-8 minutes instead of 10-11... for examaple. But if there timerun type of ahivements exist, i will try do it.. (still dont know how even possiblehow to beat serpent trial with 33minutes..)

Kraen wrote: »

. However, you gotta admit that its wrong to nerf the difficulty and compare results acquired at that easier difficulty to results obtained at harder difficulty.
[/i]

I agree, but i dont think ZOS will clear leaderbord or rollback it. For all of us you'r time will be remember

Kraen wrote: »

And by the way - as rest of the world, I did not finish Serpent Hardmode. However, I have Speedrun and No Death Run in City of Ash. Tbh, the dungeon was kind of a disappointment in terms of difficulty.

Still CoA dungeon are hardest content for 4ppl outside Arena, and good place to test newcomers skill's there
For the HM Serpent, if it was my will we would have tried this almost right after 1st kill.. but there was like 10500 new members wanna join to us, but our direction prefer to make big refrom in guild and while this make some PVP.