Rethink your leveling strategy

Nacario · November 2014

xaraan wrote: »

Also, I spent a few hours doing quests the other day in a regular zone and after going through all that, I had gained 1% on my bar. I've leveled several guys in several different ways since launch and never seen such trouble in leveling.

I question the truth in this. a few hours and only gained 1%? I did 1 quest as VR7 in a VR8 area and gained over 1% from that reward, which took about 15 mins.

Attorneyatlawl · November 2014

VileIntent wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

OK so I have a VR1, she hit VR1 right before update 5 hit. The only thing left she has to do before progressing to other faction stories is the Molag Bal fight.

My intention for leveling her, was to do Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. She's not my main (who does a lot of group stuff with my guild), so I don't really intend to do much else with her, other than quest and finely hone her crafting skills. Exactly how am I to rethink this? I just wanted to do VR1-5 on Cadwell's Silver, and VR6-10 on Cadwell's Gold. I don't want to have to rethink this, she's in a different alliance to my guild and is just for fun solo questing and crafting, but I don't want her to be gimped by VP/XP nerfs.

There is nothing for you to rethink. stay your course and you will be VR10 by cadwell old end. the QQ and out rage is from people who "think" they are suppose to be VR14 by cadwell gold end or pissed they can't cheese level GW2 style by zerging higher level mobs in an area they really shouldnt be in. Honestly Craglorn should lock out VR9 and lower, but Mr. Sage doesn't like the idea of any lockouts.

This. I did my DK to VR10 pre-craglorn pre-nerfs and my NB to VR7 at that time beforehand as well, had tons of questline left over since I did the delves, some PVP, world bosses, etc. in addition to the main quest. EVERY step of that was solo for the Cadwell quests and a good number of the world bosses, mind you... contrary to popular belief you never did, and especially even moreso now after the huge amounts of nerfage, need a group to finish any of these quests regardless of class.

There also is a lot to do to gain VR's other than just the Cadwell's Almanac-indicated quests including a huge # of sidequests and nowadays Craglorn, but people always take the path of least resistance in these games, and in that case it is to come complain on the forums.

Clearly, "fixing" leveling XP which was never an issue in the first place and most people who really play these games were already past long ago, is a much more important issue than having a basic functioning UI for example, if you go by these threads...

.

Leijona wrote: »

VileIntent wrote: »

Leijona wrote: »

It is even possible to be VR 11 or 12 by the end of Cadwells gold. Then there are only two levels left, that you can make in Craglorn.

No, your only suppose to be VR10 by cadwells gold end.

Doesn't change the fact, that you can be VR10 while you still have zones of Cadwells gold to explore and quest through. I was VR10 when I still had two zones of Cadwells gold left. And I certainly never grinded anything.

Same, I actually had about two and a half zones to go on my DK way back when and I didn't grind a single mob. That was back before the XP needed was lowered, before the mobs were nerfed into the ground, and before we had Craglorn. I was on the same path with my Nightblade right beforehand, too. I don't want to put it this way, but it really is a "learn to play" type issue since the game, by design, is set up for you to have masses and heaps of extra content remaining when finishing leveling so you don't have to do everything to cap.

Attorneyatlawl · November 2014

Epona222 wrote: »

LOL what am I missing out on exactly? I do all those other things with my guild too, I have a ton of extra skillpoints from regular guild events - we don't just group for the the quests in Craglorn, we group for public dungeons, group dungeons, skyshard hunts/dungeons in Cyrodil, city quests in Cyrodil, World bosses, delves.... you make it sound as though people get to Craglorn with no extra skillpoints, skyshards, or experience of playing in a group - and that is just not true at all! It concerns me that you might think that people solo one faction then turn up fresh in Craglorn looking for a trials group having done no other content and never grouped before, and that is complete rubbish.

EDIT: And if someone does turn up having just done solo stuff with no experience and no extra skillpoints, it's not as if anyone is forcing you to group with them! How is a VR1 in Craglorn affecting your experience at all?

Because then you come into Cyrodiil, Trials, and other activities that the game expects you to have experience in order to complete, as a VR14 who hasn't yet even learned how to dodge roll. (Somewhat hyperbolic but it illustrates my point to a "T"

).

nacario1989neb18_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Also, I spent a few hours doing quests the other day in a regular zone and after going through all that, I had gained 1% on my bar. I've leveled several guys in several different ways since launch and never seen such trouble in leveling.

I question the truth in this. a few hours and only gained 1%? I did 1 quest as VR7 in a VR8 area and gained over 1% from that reward, which took about 15 mins.

There is no truth in it, that's why you question it

. Same as people saying that having a toggle built-in to see numbers on your health bar instead of having to maintain an addon for such a basic thing would destroy the game wholesale and drive ZOS into bankruptcy, while triggering Armageddon on Earth in real life.

cesmode · November 2014

Hi,
So if I understand it...its harder to now level from V1 through ..14 or whatever right?

Do you think that this was done in order to keep players(aside from people that have been playing since launch) from reaching "max max level" too quickly and running out of things to do?

jambam817_ESO · November 2014

Well, to me it meant that XP was slowed.

I am FINE with that! its a subscription game, I expect to have a time sink of some sort (besides crafting traits, yikes!)

What I am NOT fine with is the fact that last night, after slowly progressing through the last 1/3 of VR9 since last week, i hit the level mark and...
You have gained a Veteran Rank!
You have gained a Veteran Rank!
You have gained a Veteran Rank!
But I'm still VR9

Ya, talk about a De-motivator. I would think that would be a immediate hot fix, not a wait till thursday fix...

Izzban · November 2014

VileIntent wrote: »

There is nothing for you to rethink. stay your course and you will be VR10 by cadwell old end. the QQ and out rage is from people who "think" they are suppose to be VR14 by cadwell gold end or pissed they can't cheese level GW2 style by zerging higher level mobs in an area they really shouldnt be in. Honestly Craglorn should lock out VR9 and lower, but Mr. Sage doesn't like the idea of any lockouts.

Not sure where Vile is getting their information. Here are some facts.

At VR10 I just completed a major quest chain (on Cadwell's list) in the last Cadwell's Gold area for me, Reaper's March. I got 11, 374 xp total for it in 2 batches of ~7k and ~4k, like they commonly do at the end of the long quest chains. Needing 1,432,550 xp total for a level, it will take 126 major quests to achieve the next level.

Think there are anywhere near 126 major quests in a zone?

I then did a quest hub, not a side quest. It's not on cadwell's list, but was one of the map-altering quests at a ruin/town.

7, 342 xp. Which, again back to the maths, would be 192 of those guys to level up.

Ok, side quest time. I completed a side quest. I got 474xp. Do I really need to do the maths on that one?

Well, you get exploration xp now!!! Sure, I got 420xp for discovering a new place.

Well, you can do dolmens! Far as I can tell you don't get any XP from completing the dolmens. My logs show a series of XP from kills ranging from 308, 463, and 618xp (for bosses). I couldn't identify if any of these were the dolmen complete XP and even if they are, dolmen xp is about equal to killing one mob.

Well, goshdarnit, world bosses! I killed one and got 2,905XP and 844XP combined total 3,749XP. I only need 382 of those for a level. There are 6 in Reaper's March.

Kill XP needs to be considered in with questing xp! I was getting 499xp per kill while doing the gold quest line (might have killed 30-40 total for the completion, I did not think to count them at the time) I was getting 422xp for overland mobs and 294xp for dungeon mobs (wtf!?) during the hub quest and side quests.

I was fighting VR10 mobs the whole time, since everything scales.

You can't get a level from one zone now just doing all the quests, delves, dungeons, exploration, and world bosses. You could get that and more from one zone before, as Attorney pointed out.

It's not a debate. VR leveling XP has been seriously reduced.

Pallmor · November 2014

Blud wrote: »

I am referring to this official post:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/138980/clarification-regarding-experience-gain-within-veteran-ranks/p1

How do you interpret this?

What does "rethink your leveling strategy" mean for players in VR content?

I think ZOS are the ones who need to rethink the Champion System and rethink their transition to it--before I rethink paying them $15 next month.

LonePirate · November 2014

When they changed Veteran Ranks to use XP instead of VP in Update 5, did they also lower the amount of XP you receive from quests, mobs and chests?

I honestly do not understand why VR levelling is such a difficult concept for ZOS. Let me toss out some numbers to illustrate my point.

Let's use the 1M XP per VR level for its simplicity. For each quest that provides a new completed objective in Cadwell's Almanac, make it worth 50K XP. There are up to 8-9 objectives in some zones whereas others only have 4-5. Let's use 4 thus we have 200K for completing the Almanac entries for a zone.

Each of the Almanac objectives usually has 1-2 quests to complete before the final quest for the objective can be completed. Let's make these worth 25K XP each and let's say we completed 6 of them during the course of completing the 4 Almanac entires. That is another 150K XP for 350K XP total.

Let's make the achievements for clearing a dolmen, world boss and delve worth 25K XP each. There are 3, 6 and 6 of these for each zone so that's another 375K XP each for a total of 725K XP. We need only 275K XP to reach the next VR. Subsequent runs of these would only grant mob kill XP, though.

Let's make each zone's regular mob worth 1K XP each. Let's make each elite mob and boss (like those found at the end of delves and many quests as well as mobs like trolls, harvesters, gargoyles, etc.) worth 2K XP each. Let's make the double pip or champion mobs (like the world bosses, some of the Craglorn overland bosses and some of the bosses in the Cyrodill delves worth 5K XP each. Let's make the triple pip bosses (those with the long red health bar that spans the entire screen which are found in bosses in the Main Quest, Craglorn delves and in the Undaunted dungeons) worth 10K XP each (or maybe even 25K XP each).

Let's make any quest that turns a map icon from black to white worth 50K XP each. Let's make any regular quest worth 25K XP. Let's make opening locked chests and discovering map locations worth 1K XP each.

You can easily gain 1 VR per zone with the above XP allotment. You might even be able to squeeze out 2 or more VRs per zone depending on how much you like to grind and how often you complete the crafting writs and Undaunted pledges. This sort of system would be far more popular with players and it is not a complicated system to understand or maintain, even with the reduced mob XP granted to overleveled players.

Robocles · November 2014

Leijona wrote: »

It is even possible to be VR 11 or 12 by the end of Cadwells gold. Then there are only two levels left, that you can make in Craglorn.

No, it's not.

LonePirate · November 2014

Robocles wrote: »

Leijona wrote: »

It is even possible to be VR 11 or 12 by the end of Cadwells gold. Then there are only two levels left, that you can make in Craglorn.

No, it's not.

Yes, it certainly is possible to be VR11 or VR12 by the end of Cadwell's Gold given the repeatable Cyrodiil city quests, the crafting writs and the Undaunted pledges, especially if you focus on that repeatable content and only finish small portions of the VR zone content each day.

Cuyler · November 2014

Izzban wrote: »

VileIntent wrote: »

There is nothing for you to rethink. stay your course and you will be VR10 by cadwell old end. the QQ and out rage is from people who "think" they are suppose to be VR14 by cadwell gold end or pissed they can't cheese level GW2 style by zerging higher level mobs in an area they really shouldnt be in. Honestly Craglorn should lock out VR9 and lower, but Mr. Sage doesn't like the idea of any lockouts.

Not sure where Vile is getting their information. Here are some facts.

At VR10 I just completed a major quest chain (on Cadwell's list) in the last Cadwell's Gold area for me, Reaper's March. I got 11, 374 xp total for it in 2 batches of ~7k and ~4k, like they commonly do at the end of the long quest chains. Needing 1,432,550 xp total for a level, it will take 126 major quests to achieve the next level.

Think there are anywhere near 126 major quests in a zone?

I then did a quest hub, not a side quest. It's not on cadwell's list, but was one of the map-altering quests at a ruin/town.

7, 342 xp. Which, again back to the maths, would be 192 of those guys to level up.

Ok, side quest time. I completed a side quest. I got 474xp. Do I really need to do the maths on that one?

Well, you get exploration xp now!!! Sure, I got 420xp for discovering a new place.

Well, you can do dolmens! Far as I can tell you don't get any XP from completing the dolmens. My logs show a series of XP from kills ranging from 308, 463, and 618xp (for bosses). I couldn't identify if any of these were the dolmen complete XP and even if they are, dolmen xp is about equal to killing one mob.

Well, goshdarnit, world bosses! I killed one and got 2,905XP and 844XP combined total 3,749XP. I only need 382 of those for a level. There are 6 in Reaper's March.

Kill XP needs to be considered in with questing xp! I was getting 499xp per kill while doing the gold quest line (might have killed 30-40 total for the completion, I did not think to count them at the time) I was getting 422xp for overland mobs and 294xp for dungeon mobs (wtf!?) during the hub quest and side quests.

I was fighting VR10 mobs the whole time, since everything scales.

You can't get a level from one zone now just doing all the quests, delves, dungeons, exploration, and world bosses. You could get that and more from one zone before, as Attorney pointed out.

It's not a debate. VR leveling XP has been seriously reduced.

You are correct. Thank you for your very insightful and detailed explanation.

Leijona wrote: »

It is even possible to be VR 11 or 12 by the end of Cadwells gold. Then there are only two levels left, that you can make in Craglorn.

This may have been the case pre v1.5 but is not the case now. Mods came on record to state that the xp received from killing monsters at VR was accidentally capped at the lvl 50 xp gains. Anyone leveling v1-v13 atm will not be v10 by the end of Caldwell's unless you grind in those zones for the lvl 50 xp which i'll add is mind numbingly slow.

Robocles · November 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

Leijona wrote: »

It is even possible to be VR 11 or 12 by the end of Cadwells gold. Then there are only two levels left, that you can make in Craglorn.

No, it's not.

Yes, it certainly is possible to be VR11 or VR12 by the end of Cadwell's Gold given the repeatable Cyrodiil city quests, the crafting writs and the Undaunted pledges, especially if you focus on that repeatable content and only finish small portions of the VR zone content each day.

That's misleading. You can't reach anywhere near V10 with the current VR XP setup. Adding that one can grind dailies, and just make the Cadwell's stuff last long enough that it makes up for the XP issue is not what what Leijone implied in his/her post. You should work for ZOS with that kind of wordsmithing. :P

Edit: Not you, Leijona.

Cuyler · November 2014

Robocles wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

Leijona wrote: »

It is even possible to be VR 11 or 12 by the end of Cadwells gold. Then there are only two levels left, that you can make in Craglorn.

No, it's not.

Yes, it certainly is possible to be VR11 or VR12 by the end of Cadwell's Gold given the repeatable Cyrodiil city quests, the crafting writs and the Undaunted pledges, especially if you focus on that repeatable content and only finish small portions of the VR zone content each day.

That's misleading. You can't reach anywhere near V10 with the current VR XP setup. Adding that one can grind dailies, and just make the Cadwell's stuff last long enough that it makes up for the XP issue is not what what Leijone implied in his/her post. You should work for ZOS with that kind of wordsmithing. :P

Edit: Not you, Leijona.

It's very misleading. Cyrodiil, writs, and pledges should not even be factored into the equation as they are not apart of Caldwell's.

Garetth · November 2014

VileIntent wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

OK so I have a VR1, she hit VR1 right before update 5 hit. The only thing left she has to do before progressing to other faction stories is the Molag Bal fight.

My intention for leveling her, was to do Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. She's not my main (who does a lot of group stuff with my guild), so I don't really intend to do much else with her, other than quest and finely hone her crafting skills. Exactly how am I to rethink this? I just wanted to do VR1-5 on Cadwell's Silver, and VR6-10 on Cadwell's Gold. I don't want to have to rethink this, she's in a different alliance to my guild and is just for fun solo questing and crafting, but I don't want her to be gimped by VP/XP nerfs.

There is nothing for you to rethink. stay your course and you will be VR10 by cadwell old end. the QQ and out rage is from people who "think" they are suppose to be VR14 by cadwell gold end or pissed they can't cheese level GW2 style by zerging higher level mobs in an area they really shouldnt be in. Honestly Craglorn should lock out VR9 and lower, but Mr. Sage doesn't like the idea of any lockouts.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Currently if you complete everything single thing in every zone of Caldwell's silver and gold you will be lucky to hit V7.5 when complete, not to mention that you will be out leveled in each zone you are questing.

Currently the only way to make up the xp difference in each zone to where you can enter the next zone at the same level is to mindlessly grind mobs for half a level in each zone and as we all know that's a blast.

Garetth · November 2014

What I'm doing now is, I make a level 50 of each class, and as soon as the CS get's implemented I'll have x chars, which are equally strong as my current main. I however lose the experience I'd gain with my main now, since the exp gain is already tracked, however only counts from maximum veteran rank on.

There fixed it for you.

LonePirate · November 2014

Cuyler wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

Leijona wrote: »

It is even possible to be VR 11 or 12 by the end of Cadwells gold. Then there are only two levels left, that you can make in Craglorn.

No, it's not.

Yes, it certainly is possible to be VR11 or VR12 by the end of Cadwell's Gold given the repeatable Cyrodiil city quests, the crafting writs and the Undaunted pledges, especially if you focus on that repeatable content and only finish small portions of the VR zone content each day.

That's misleading. You can't reach anywhere near V10 with the current VR XP setup. Adding that one can grind dailies, and just make the Cadwell's stuff last long enough that it makes up for the XP issue is not what what Leijone implied in his/her post. You should work for ZOS with that kind of wordsmithing. :P

Edit: Not you, Leijona.

It's very misleading. Cyrodiil, writs, and pledges should not even be factored into the equation as they are not apart of Caldwell's.

Technically, 90% or more of a zone's content is not part of Cadwell's Almanac. Only the 2-3 quests related to each checked item are part of the Almanac.

I am not saying my example is ideal. I simply said it was possible, which it most certainly is. I was VR4 before I ever set foot in my VR1 zone. I was almost VR9 when I finished my VR2 zone. This was before Craglorn was released. Now with the additional writ and pledge quests, there are more ways to increase Veteran Ranks while progressing through Cadwell's Almanac without visiting Craglorn.

Robocles · November 2014

Garetth wrote: »

VileIntent wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

OK so I have a VR1, she hit VR1 right before update 5 hit. The only thing left she has to do before progressing to other faction stories is the Molag Bal fight.

My intention for leveling her, was to do Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. She's not my main (who does a lot of group stuff with my guild), so I don't really intend to do much else with her, other than quest and finely hone her crafting skills. Exactly how am I to rethink this? I just wanted to do VR1-5 on Cadwell's Silver, and VR6-10 on Cadwell's Gold. I don't want to have to rethink this, she's in a different alliance to my guild and is just for fun solo questing and crafting, but I don't want her to be gimped by VP/XP nerfs.

There is nothing for you to rethink. stay your course and you will be VR10 by cadwell old end. the QQ and out rage is from people who "think" they are suppose to be VR14 by cadwell gold end or pissed they can't cheese level GW2 style by zerging higher level mobs in an area they really shouldnt be in. Honestly Craglorn should lock out VR9 and lower, but Mr. Sage doesn't like the idea of any lockouts.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Currently if you complete everything single thing in every zone of Caldwell's silver and gold you will be lucky to hit V7.5 when complete, not to mention that you will be out leveled in each zone you are questing.

Currently the only way to make up the xp difference in each zone to where you can enter the next zone at the same level is to mindlessly grind mobs for half a level in each zone and as we all know that's a blast.

I assume you mean AFTER they drop XP per level to 1,000,000. And, I'm fairly sure it's still sub V7. I'll defer, though, because I really don't feel like doing the math for ZOS.

Cuyler · November 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

Leijona wrote: »

It is even possible to be VR 11 or 12 by the end of Cadwells gold. Then there are only two levels left, that you can make in Craglorn.

No, it's not.

Yes, it certainly is possible to be VR11 or VR12 by the end of Cadwell's Gold given the repeatable Cyrodiil city quests, the crafting writs and the Undaunted pledges, especially if you focus on that repeatable content and only finish small portions of the VR zone content each day.

That's misleading. You can't reach anywhere near V10 with the current VR XP setup. Adding that one can grind dailies, and just make the Cadwell's stuff last long enough that it makes up for the XP issue is not what what Leijone implied in his/her post. You should work for ZOS with that kind of wordsmithing. :P

Edit: Not you, Leijona.

It's very misleading. Cyrodiil, writs, and pledges should not even be factored into the equation as they are not apart of Caldwell's.

Technically, 90% or more of a zone's content is not part of Cadwell's Almanac. Only the 2-3 quests related to each checked item are part of the Almanac.

I am not saying my example is ideal. I simply said it was possible, which it most certainly is. I was VR4 before I ever set foot in my VR1 zone. I was almost VR9 when I finished my VR2 zone. This was before Craglorn was released. Now with the additional writ and pledge quests, there are more ways to increase Veteran Ranks while progressing through Cadwell's Almanac without visiting Craglorn.

First off, your pointing out an omission in my post. Let me clarify that right now.

Cyrodiil, writs, and pledges should not even be factored into the equation as they are not apart of the xp available to a player in the 50+, and 50++ zones for Caldwell's silver and gold respectively (i.e. almanac quests, side quests, exploration xp, chest xp, dolmen's, world bosses).

Second, there is 4-6 almanac requirements for each zone with 2-3 quests for each requirement and 10 zones so there are over 100+ almanac quests in total before completing gold.

I get what your saying but I don't agree that the answer to not receiving the amount of xp needed to go to the next zone at lvl is to go to Cyrodiil and do pledges. The xp needed to progress should be available within the 50+ and 50++ zones with cyrodiil and pledges xp being an added bonus for those who choose to do that.

As previously stated this is simply not the case and those leveling VR are now forced to go grind somewhere else than 50+, 50++ zones after they have completed all there is (wherever that may be).

EDIT: just want to add that the Cyrodiil xp is just horrible btw.

Slurg · November 2014

It seems what ZOS is saying with all this is they don't intend doing quests/dolmens/world bosses/delves through the gold and silver zones should get you one VR level per zone anymore. If you don't want to grind you must go to Cyrodiil and also do the daily group pledges to gain ranks now.

Basically, group or go home when you hit VR 1.

Leijona · November 2014

There are two calculations about the possible XP someone could get in a zone. In neither of them, group dungeons were mentioned. Why? I always had the feeling, that doing group dungeons gave plenty XP.

VileIntent · November 2014

Izzban wrote: »

VileIntent wrote: »

There is nothing for you to rethink. stay your course and you will be VR10 by cadwell old end. the QQ and out rage is from people who "think" they are suppose to be VR14 by cadwell gold end or pissed they can't cheese level GW2 style by zerging higher level mobs in an area they really shouldnt be in. Honestly Craglorn should lock out VR9 and lower, but Mr. Sage doesn't like the idea of any lockouts.

Not sure where Vile is getting their information. Here are some facts.

At VR10 I just completed a major quest chain (on Cadwell's list) in the last Cadwell's Gold area for me, Reaper's March. I got 11, 374 xp total for it in 2 batches of ~7k and ~4k, like they commonly do at the end of the long quest chains. Needing 1,432,550 xp total for a level, it will take 126 major quests to achieve the next level.

Think there are anywhere near 126 major quests in a zone?

I then did a quest hub, not a side quest. It's not on cadwell's list, but was one of the map-altering quests at a ruin/town.

7, 342 xp. Which, again back to the maths, would be 192 of those guys to level up.

Ok, side quest time. I completed a side quest. I got 474xp. Do I really need to do the maths on that one?

Well, you get exploration xp now!!! Sure, I got 420xp for discovering a new place.

Well, you can do dolmens! Far as I can tell you don't get any XP from completing the dolmens. My logs show a series of XP from kills ranging from 308, 463, and 618xp (for bosses). I couldn't identify if any of these were the dolmen complete XP and even if they are, dolmen xp is about equal to killing one mob.

Well, goshdarnit, world bosses! I killed one and got 2,905XP and 844XP combined total 3,749XP. I only need 382 of those for a level. There are 6 in Reaper's March.

Kill XP needs to be considered in with questing xp! I was getting 499xp per kill while doing the gold quest line (might have killed 30-40 total for the completion, I did not think to count them at the time) I was getting 422xp for overland mobs and 294xp for dungeon mobs (wtf!?) during the hub quest and side quests.

I was fighting VR10 mobs the whole time, since everything scales.

You can't get a level from one zone now just doing all the quests, delves, dungeons, exploration, and world bosses. You could get that and more from one zone before, as Attorney pointed out.

It's not a debate. VR leveling XP has been seriously reduced.

because not everything gives the same amount of xp. I quote from another thread...http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/139486/experience-versus-veteran-point-gain/p1

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Since we released Update 5, we've been paying very close attention to your concerns about the changes to Experience versus Veteran Point gain. We’d like to address some of those concerns.

First and foremost, we want everyone to know that we have zero interest in trying to extend your playtime by making you grind for experience. That includes grinding quests, monsters, dungeons, or anything else. If people aren't having a good time, we know they won’t stick around, so artificially inflating time spent playing is a self-defeating practice we aren't interested in. Our number one priority is fun (this is a game, after all!) and promoting a diverse array of activity options that allow you to pursue experience gains however you like.

While our intended goal is for it to take the average person 12-15 hours to gain a Veteran Rank, our QA team regularly gains Veteran Ranks on live in 8-10 hours or less. We've also witnessed you, our players, beating that time quite often, too. So, the 12-15 hour estimate is a baseline standard—mileage may vary (and it often does.)

We’re trying to be fairly open with our numbers by communicating our target leveling times, but in the interest of more clarity here are a few more details:
We add experience multipliers to quests, usually depending on the time taken and relative difficulty. Those experience multipliers look like this:
Very Easy = .1

Easy = .75

Standard = 1

Hard = 1.5

Very Hard = 2.25

Point of Interest completion also has these modifiers applied, but most are set to “Standard.”

Dungeon quest completion has an experience modifier of “Very Hard.”

We do clamp experience so a single event can’t get you more than 10 percent of your current level.

Our current course of action is to fix the existing bugs, and then analyze before adjusting experience to be even more generous. Again, our goal is not to force a grind, we just don’t want to over-compensate. Thank you all for continuing to share your feedback and concerns on this issue.

You cannot simply compare mob xp and call it a total, just get off your butts and actually go friggin level instead of trying to math out a chaotic problem.

Cuyler · November 2014

VileIntent wrote: »

Izzban wrote: »

VileIntent wrote: »

There is nothing for you to rethink. stay your course and you will be VR10 by cadwell old end. the QQ and out rage is from people who "think" they are suppose to be VR14 by cadwell gold end or pissed they can't cheese level GW2 style by zerging higher level mobs in an area they really shouldnt be in. Honestly Craglorn should lock out VR9 and lower, but Mr. Sage doesn't like the idea of any lockouts.

Not sure where Vile is getting their information. Here are some facts.

At VR10 I just completed a major quest chain (on Cadwell's list) in the last Cadwell's Gold area for me, Reaper's March. I got 11, 374 xp total for it in 2 batches of ~7k and ~4k, like they commonly do at the end of the long quest chains. Needing 1,432,550 xp total for a level, it will take 126 major quests to achieve the next level.

Think there are anywhere near 126 major quests in a zone?

I then did a quest hub, not a side quest. It's not on cadwell's list, but was one of the map-altering quests at a ruin/town.

7, 342 xp. Which, again back to the maths, would be 192 of those guys to level up.

Ok, side quest time. I completed a side quest. I got 474xp. Do I really need to do the maths on that one?

Well, you get exploration xp now!!! Sure, I got 420xp for discovering a new place.

Well, you can do dolmens! Far as I can tell you don't get any XP from completing the dolmens. My logs show a series of XP from kills ranging from 308, 463, and 618xp (for bosses). I couldn't identify if any of these were the dolmen complete XP and even if they are, dolmen xp is about equal to killing one mob.

Well, goshdarnit, world bosses! I killed one and got 2,905XP and 844XP combined total 3,749XP. I only need 382 of those for a level. There are 6 in Reaper's March.

Kill XP needs to be considered in with questing xp! I was getting 499xp per kill while doing the gold quest line (might have killed 30-40 total for the completion, I did not think to count them at the time) I was getting 422xp for overland mobs and 294xp for dungeon mobs (wtf!?) during the hub quest and side quests.

I was fighting VR10 mobs the whole time, since everything scales.

You can't get a level from one zone now just doing all the quests, delves, dungeons, exploration, and world bosses. You could get that and more from one zone before, as Attorney pointed out.

It's not a debate. VR leveling XP has been seriously reduced.

because not everything gives the same amount of xp. I quote from another thread...http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/139486/experience-versus-veteran-point-gain/p1

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Since we released Update 5, we've been paying very close attention to your concerns about the changes to Experience versus Veteran Point gain. We’d like to address some of those concerns.

First and foremost, we want everyone to know that we have zero interest in trying to extend your playtime by making you grind for experience. That includes grinding quests, monsters, dungeons, or anything else. If people aren't having a good time, we know they won’t stick around, so artificially inflating time spent playing is a self-defeating practice we aren't interested in. Our number one priority is fun (this is a game, after all!) and promoting a diverse array of activity options that allow you to pursue experience gains however you like.

While our intended goal is for it to take the average person 12-15 hours to gain a Veteran Rank, our QA team regularly gains Veteran Ranks on live in 8-10 hours or less. We've also witnessed you, our players, beating that time quite often, too. So, the 12-15 hour estimate is a baseline standard—mileage may vary (and it often does.)

We’re trying to be fairly open with our numbers by communicating our target leveling times, but in the interest of more clarity here are a few more details:
We add experience multipliers to quests, usually depending on the time taken and relative difficulty. Those experience multipliers look like this:
Very Easy = .1

Easy = .75

Standard = 1

Hard = 1.5

Very Hard = 2.25

Point of Interest completion also has these modifiers applied, but most are set to “Standard.”

Dungeon quest completion has an experience modifier of “Very Hard.”

We do clamp experience so a single event can’t get you more than 10 percent of your current level.

Our current course of action is to fix the existing bugs, and then analyze before adjusting experience to be even more generous. Again, our goal is not to force a grind, we just don’t want to over-compensate. Thank you all for continuing to share your feedback and concerns on this issue.

You cannot simply compare mob xp and call it a total, just get off your butts and actually go friggin level instead of trying to math out a chaotic problem.

You may want to stop and think if your xp is being tracked, or will it be reimbursed for the non-repeatable quests your so anxious to do while VR xp is bugged at a cap of lvl50.

Cuyler · November 2014

Leijona wrote: »

There are two calculations about the possible XP someone could get in a zone. In neither of them, group dungeons were mentioned. Why? I always had the feeling, that doing group dungeons gave plenty XP.

IMO because the idea is to have a soloable experience through 50+, 50++ zones that take you up to v10. Most won't/can't solo a group dungeon therefore it's not included.

In addition most people actually taking the time to test xp differences are doing it alone not in a group. Group dungeons to me, always seemed like something I did when i was able (guild members available) and couldn't be relied upon as consistent xp for leveling.

Slurg · November 2014

Leijona wrote: »

There are two calculations about the possible XP someone could get in a zone. In neither of them, group dungeons were mentioned. Why? I always had the feeling, that doing group dungeons gave plenty XP.

In the past a lot of people saw group dungeons as something extra and optional to do, not required to stay on level as you advance through a zone. While this is still true levels 1-49, based on what I've read about how XP is now awarded for VR, I believe it's now required as part of the VR leveling strategy for Cadwell's silver and gold if you don't want to be under leveled for the next zone.

LonePirate · November 2014

Cuyler wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

Leijona wrote: »

It is even possible to be VR 11 or 12 by the end of Cadwells gold. Then there are only two levels left, that you can make in Craglorn.

No, it's not.

Yes, it certainly is possible to be VR11 or VR12 by the end of Cadwell's Gold given the repeatable Cyrodiil city quests, the crafting writs and the Undaunted pledges, especially if you focus on that repeatable content and only finish small portions of the VR zone content each day.

That's misleading. You can't reach anywhere near V10 with the current VR XP setup. Adding that one can grind dailies, and just make the Cadwell's stuff last long enough that it makes up for the XP issue is not what what Leijone implied in his/her post. You should work for ZOS with that kind of wordsmithing. :P

Edit: Not you, Leijona.

It's very misleading. Cyrodiil, writs, and pledges should not even be factored into the equation as they are not apart of Caldwell's.

Technically, 90% or more of a zone's content is not part of Cadwell's Almanac. Only the 2-3 quests related to each checked item are part of the Almanac.

I am not saying my example is ideal. I simply said it was possible, which it most certainly is. I was VR4 before I ever set foot in my VR1 zone. I was almost VR9 when I finished my VR2 zone. This was before Craglorn was released. Now with the additional writ and pledge quests, there are more ways to increase Veteran Ranks while progressing through Cadwell's Almanac without visiting Craglorn.

First off, your pointing out an omission in my post. Let me clarify that right now.

Cyrodiil, writs, and pledges should not even be factored into the equation as they are not apart of the xp available to a player in the 50+, and 50++ zones for Caldwell's silver and gold respectively (i.e. almanac quests, side quests, exploration xp, chest xp, dolmen's, world bosses).

Second, there is 4-6 almanac requirements for each zone with 2-3 quests for each requirement and 10 zones so there are over 100+ almanac quests in total before completing gold.

I get what your saying but I don't agree that the answer to not receiving the amount of xp needed to go to the next zone at lvl is to go to Cyrodiil and do pledges. The xp needed to progress should be available within the 50+ and 50++ zones with cyrodiil and pledges xp being an added bonus for those who choose to do that.

As previously stated this is simply not the case and those leveling VR are now forced to go grind somewhere else than 50+, 50++ zones after they have completed all there is (wherever that may be).

EDIT: just want to add that the Cyrodiil xp is just horrible btw.

I fully agree that each zone should offer more than enough XP to reach the next VR. I am merely saying that there are other things you can do to supplement or even replace the XP gained within VR zones. Also, most of the Cyrodiil city quests are quick and easy. You can knock out 10 of them in 30-35 minutes usually which makes them ideal if you have limited playtime and want some fast XP and gold.

Jitterbug · November 2014

Epona222 wrote: »

elitists not welcome.

that's a rather elitist attitude... elitists aren't good enough for you?

:P

Darklord_Tiberius · November 2014

Rodario wrote: »

VileIntent wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

The point is as soon as the CS gets fully implemented, all chars will be set to Level 50, and you will be rewarded a certain amount of champion points for the amount of veteran Points you have at that time. There is however a Maximum of points you can get so, which is not known yet, so that the differences will not be too big.

So since champion points are account-wide, you will automatically, once a char of yours hits level 50 (or V1, how knows what they will call it), it will automatically be at the same level of your others.

Which means, the only reason to grind Veteran ranks right now is to get closer to this champion point Limit, which is not known yet and might have already been reached by your account.

This guy knows his or her stuff. learn it live it love it. thank you for reminding me as well. sometimes you just get lost in the madness.

We have no idea when the CS is coming though. Could be in a few weeks, could be in half a year.

Some players would like to reach VR14 and participate in what little endgame there is in the meanwhile. (Instead of being stuck around VR8 after completing everything in every zone, except craglorn because they can't find a group to quest there).

Wrong, 1.6 will be Imperial City and Champion System LOL @ half a year.

Robocles · November 2014

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

Rodario wrote: »

VileIntent wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

The point is as soon as the CS gets fully implemented, all chars will be set to Level 50, and you will be rewarded a certain amount of champion points for the amount of veteran Points you have at that time. There is however a Maximum of points you can get so, which is not known yet, so that the differences will not be too big.

So since champion points are account-wide, you will automatically, once a char of yours hits level 50 (or V1, how knows what they will call it), it will automatically be at the same level of your others.

Which means, the only reason to grind Veteran ranks right now is to get closer to this champion point Limit, which is not known yet and might have already been reached by your account.

This guy knows his or her stuff. learn it live it love it. thank you for reminding me as well. sometimes you just get lost in the madness.

We have no idea when the CS is coming though. Could be in a few weeks, could be in half a year.

Some players would like to reach VR14 and participate in what little endgame there is in the meanwhile. (Instead of being stuck around VR8 after completing everything in every zone, except craglorn because they can't find a group to quest there).

Wrong, 1.6 will be Imperial City and Champion System LOL @ half a year.

Thanks for your valuable addition to this thread. Maybe you can provide some evidence to support your assertion here.

Xjcon · November 2014

I've been in crag for the last 4 days. Only 1 of Which I could say I was there for more then 4 hours. About 5% till VR11, I have been able to solo lots of the crag content but there is lots I cant thus I have to try to group. I spent 2 hours spamming zone trying to find 3 others that wanted to start a group chain Seeker's Archive. Had 1 VR14 join saying he would help. He stayed for about an hour till he left.

Today I came out of a delve just in time to see some one LFM to start something in Elinhir, he spammed chat for about 10 minutes after I joined looking for a healer, there was 3 of us me being a tank. He gave up 10 minutes in to looking for a healer.... This game requires groups to complete things yet very few want to put the time in to do that sort of content.

I've been getting about 414 from each mob And a little over 800 for mobs with more then normal health. Most mob groups are from 4 to 8 and I can kill them solo as a VR 10 fairly quick. I need 1.4 million experience for level VR 11.

My point is people are throwing a fit about the way it is right now but rather then just deal with it till its changed they are doing nothing. I will get to VR14 if it's slower then others who have been playing since launch, oh well. Sitting around doing nothing is 10 times slower.

Rhian-Skybladeb16_ESO · November 2014

People throw a fit because they cannot experience the content and also do not level on a reasonable pace. No one can blame them for that.
Most of them try to kill time by leveling their alts or harvesting materials. Though at some point that, too, loses its time-killing quality.

Grinding mobs is not the solution and also, besides the low experience it is dead boring. If I just want to "kill" stuff I could play those dumb cell phone games...