Monthly "Fix your UI Zenimax" post.

TehMagnus · November 2014

Once again, ZOS, please, introduce BASIC changes to your game's UI.

It is not normal that we need to rely on addons to see basic stuff like:
- The timers of the Buffs/Debuffs/DoT's we place on mobs

- Loot/Combat log information with why not a DPS recap in the end. This could easily be integrated to one of the tabs of the chat so it doesn't hinder "immersion" or what ever that is for ZOS.

- Real total immersion. Because yeah, some people don't want ANYTHING on their screens. I might not agree with it or ever want to play like that but this is a BASIC functionality any decent UI claiming to promote immersion should have (which proves even further that your aim wasn't to promote immersion, it was to spend as little money/time as possible on your UI which is probably also why you have never commented on these issues in the forums).

- Search functionality on Guildstores as well as a "Saved Search" feature.

- The ability to move all the UI elements and change the Health/Magicka/Stamina bars shape as well as the ability to modify the way the group's HP is shown (addons like ggframes do this perfectly, allowing the HP bars to actually have information and not take a quarter of the screen and show how much HP your party members have).

All these are basic features whose lack of existence has made a lot of people leave. Follow what you said in Quakecon, fix your mistakes. It begins with this.

Yes Yes, I'm beating a dead horse. And I'll keep beating it until ZOS comments on this issue which they have been avoiding since launch thanks to their Ostrich policy.

Razzak · November 2014

Contrary to popular belief, this is not a dead horse. It's an actual and hot topic and it deserves a continuous discussion in hopes they will realize that.
Option to set you UI the way you wanted and with enough information, you are actually able to play the way you want. What a thought! Wonder were we got such a ridiculous idea?
And before we get another twinkie saying most people like this minimalistic UI ... options. You know, in a way where you can choose how much minimalistic or not, your UI should look like.

astro74 · November 2014

OP: Some dead horses deserve to be beaten.

ZoS make some decent UI and let the players hide it if they dont want it.. dont force us to rely on plugins that you break every week...

Also what the F***K were you smoking when designing the pvp queue system.. Do you actually think it is fun to stare at the queue number in the alliance screen.. 15 mins queue and then i have 1 min to accept..but i dont get a warning ingame its my turn so either i stare on the screen (as exciting as watching paint dry) or i take my chances and play and check in now and then with 80% risk to lose my spot and have to do it all over again.

xMovingTarget · November 2014

+1 Magnus

I totally agree.

Tankqull · November 2014

the funny part is the ui will never be changed - they prefer reworking skills and balance between magica and stamina based skills in 1.6 than adding information to the tool tips for clarification.
that says all about their view regarding ui issues ...

Epona222 · November 2014

astro74 wrote: »

OP: Some dead horses deserve to be beaten.

ZoS make some decent UI and let the players hide it if they dont want it.. dont force us to rely on plugins that you break every week...

Also what the F***K were you smoking when designing the pvp queue system.. Do you actually think it is fun to stare at the queue number in the alliance screen.. 15 mins queue and then i have 1 min to accept..but i dont get a warning ingame its my turn so either i stare on the screen (as exciting as watching paint dry) or i take my chances and play and check in now and then with 80% risk to lose my spot and have to do it all over again.

That is a point I agree with, if you are in a long queue you should be able to get on with other stuff and have a notification flash up on screen when you can enter the campaign, not just leave you staring at a screen and doing nothing and once you reach the top of the queue put you on a very short timer to press the right button.

As someone coming from TES, I can see what they were trying to do with the minimal UI by making it like Skyrim (previous TES games were not as minimal), but I do think at least I should have the option to show my current buffs on screen without an addon, they could go in the top right corner without disturbing anything, as long as I could turn them on and off depending upon what I am doing or maybe give me the option to set it that they only show during combat that would be fine by me.

astro74 · November 2014

I don't see why they cant add some basic functionality to their UI. Make it autohide on default and let the players chose to use it or not.. or stay true with your vision with no ui and do not allow for ui addons at all.

One shouldnt be forced to use 3rd party stuff to be competitive...

Tankqull · November 2014

Epona222 wrote: »

astro74 wrote: »

OP: Some dead horses deserve to be beaten.

ZoS make some decent UI and let the players hide it if they dont want it.. dont force us to rely on plugins that you break every week...

Also what the F***K were you smoking when designing the pvp queue system.. Do you actually think it is fun to stare at the queue number in the alliance screen.. 15 mins queue and then i have 1 min to accept..but i dont get a warning ingame its my turn so either i stare on the screen (as exciting as watching paint dry) or i take my chances and play and check in now and then with 80% risk to lose my spot and have to do it all over again.

That is a point I agree with, if you are in a long queue you should be able to get on with other stuff and have a notification flash up on screen when you can enter the campaign, not just leave you staring at a screen and doing nothing and once you reach the top of the queue put you on a very short timer to press the right button.

As someone coming from TES, I can see what they were trying to do with the minimal UI by making it like Skyrim (previous TES games were not as minimal), but I do think at least I should have the option to show my current buffs on screen without an addon, they could go in the top right corner without disturbing anything, as long as I could turn them on and off depending upon what I am doing or maybe give me the option to set it that they only show during combat that would be fine by me.

it start with the simple fact that ui elements given should be freely moveable without need of an addon.

the ui is a simple fail nothing more or less.

TehMagnus · November 2014

astro74 wrote: »

I don't see why they cant add some basic functionality to their UI. Make it autohide on default and let the players chose to use it or not.. or stay true with your vision with no ui and do not allow for ui addons at all.

One shouldnt be forced to use 3rd party stuff to be competitive...

Agreed. The people that are the most affected by this are Casual players who don't know about addons, don't trust them or don't have the skills to use them (because they're not used to this kind of game modifications).

How many players would have stayed if they had information about how they play and what is going wrong? I bet more than one frustrated person could have managed to understand the issues they where facing and fixed them if the UI gave them or at least allowed them to see more information.

Rosveen · November 2014

astro74 wrote: »

OP: Some dead horses deserve to be beaten.

ZoS make some decent UI and let the players hide it if they dont want it.. dont force us to rely on plugins that you break every week...

Also what the F***K were you smoking when designing the pvp queue system.. Do you actually think it is fun to stare at the queue number in the alliance screen.. 15 mins queue and then i have 1 min to accept..but i dont get a warning ingame its my turn so either i stare on the screen (as exciting as watching paint dry) or i take my chances and play and check in now and then with 80% risk to lose my spot and have to do it all over again.

I'm confused. I always get a notification that I can enter Cyrodiil. Sure, the timer is still a bit short, but it doesn't take my by surprise.

TehMagnus · November 2014

Rosveen wrote: »

astro74 wrote: »

OP: Some dead horses deserve to be beaten.

ZoS make some decent UI and let the players hide it if they dont want it.. dont force us to rely on plugins that you break every week...

Also what the F***K were you smoking when designing the pvp queue system.. Do you actually think it is fun to stare at the queue number in the alliance screen.. 15 mins queue and then i have 1 min to accept..but i dont get a warning ingame its my turn so either i stare on the screen (as exciting as watching paint dry) or i take my chances and play and check in now and then with 80% risk to lose my spot and have to do it all over again.

I'm confused. I always get a notification that I can enter Cyrodiil. Sure, the timer is still a bit short, but it doesn't take my by surprise.

You will get a message that will show in your notification window, except it's mostly polluted by "X person finished "trial" in X minutes" messages and I suppose most people ignore the notification window because of it. This should actually also have been implemented a long time ago a lot of people don't care about that information. Would be nice to be able to choose on a guild per guild case if you want to see leaderboard notifications for it's members. When you're in an active trading guild, you get about 4 of those per hour...

nerevarine1138 · November 2014

I have to remember that "broken" means "I don't like the aesthetic choices made" for future threads. Makes things so much less confusing on this forum.

TehMagnus · November 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I have to remember that "broken" means "I don't like the aesthetic choices made" for future threads. Makes things so much less confusing on this forum.

No mention of "broken" anywhere, but since you're a "Die Hard ZOS fanboy" (till ZOS eventually themselves contradict your statements when they recognize they where wrong like they did in Quakecon), doesn't surprise me you come & try to make a ridiculous statement in a thread asking for improvements though. As for the patches breaking addons it has nothing to do with aesthetic choices.

Attorneyatlawl · November 2014

Razzak wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief, this is not a dead horse. It's an actual and hot topic and it deserves a continuous discussion in hopes they will realize that.
Option to set you UI the way you wanted and with enough information, you are actually able to play the way you want. What a thought! Wonder were we got such a ridiculous idea?
And before we get another twinkie saying most people like this minimalistic UI ... options. You know, in a way where you can choose how much minimalistic or not, your UI should look like.

Quoted for truth... not a dead horse at all, and the horribly crippled UI that is both unintuitive and lacks tons of basic gameplay info/features that are industry-standard for good reason remains one of the game's top issues for both current and former players. Same with camera options for third-person mode still.

MornaBaine · November 2014

Don't feel bad, they won't answer my questions either. But yeah I was super astonished by the stripped down UI this game has. As I was by only having 5 spells available at a time in a system that lets you "learn" so many. Why is our access to them then so severely restricted? And DON'T get me started on that stupid potion ring!

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO · November 2014

Could you please point me to your previous monthly post? I'm curious as to how many people actually responded.

nerevarine1138 · November 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I have to remember that "broken" means "I don't like the aesthetic choices made" for future threads. Makes things so much less confusing on this forum.

No mention of "broken" anywhere, but since you're a "Die Hard ZOS fanboy" (till ZOS eventually themselves contradict your statements when they recognize they where wrong like they did in Quakecon), doesn't surprise me you come & try to make a ridiculous statement in a thread asking for improvements though. As for the patches breaking addons it has nothing to do with aesthetic choices.

Ah, gotcha. So it's not broken, but it needs to be fixed. Isn't there a saying about that?

But I'm posting here for others' benefit; your use of the word "fanboy" pretty much negates any ghost of a point you might have.

AshySamurai · November 2014

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »

Could you please point me to your previous monthly post? I'm curious as to how many people actually responded.

I'm interested to see too.

And I even don't want to post "beating a dead horse" picture. IMO this is the best solution for everyone: someone like minimalistic UI - ok, we have it; someone like to see all numbers and all other information - ok, use addon's. This is the main feature! You setup your UI as you (and only you) like. Why should ZOS add addon's functionality in game? Sure, ZOS can easily do it. But if you can do it doesn't mean you should do it!
Yeah, maybe ZOS should expand their API, but not change current UI.

Govalon · November 2014

AshySamurai wrote: »

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »

Could you please point me to your previous monthly post? I'm curious as to how many people actually responded.

I'm interested to see too.

And I even don't want to post "beating a dead horse" picture. IMO this is the best solution for everyone: someone like minimalistic UI - ok, we have it; someone like to see all numbers and all other information - ok, use addon's. This is the main feature! You setup your UI as you (and only you) like. Why should ZOS add addon's functionality in game? Sure, ZOS can easily do it. But if you can do it doesn't mean you should do it!
Yeah, maybe ZOS should expand their API, but not change current UI.

Some of us are waiting for console edition and there won't be addons for consoles. This is another good reason why they should fix the ui. How are we supposed to play with UI that does not even tell you which items you have researched, does not tell you which items you are saving for later. Sure, I could use one hour sorting my inventory for every hour I spend in this beautiful world but why the hell I would wan't to do that? Eso world is too beautiful to spend half your time managing inventory.

This has nothing to do with immersion. If it was by default that you could see which items you have researched just by looking at your inventory, you would not download an addon to hide that iformation to make it more "immersive".

TehMagnus · November 2014

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »

Could you please point me to your previous monthly post? I'm curious as to how many people actually responded.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/134788/play-as-you-want-vs-forced-ignorance-and-forced-immersion/p1
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130249/the-future-of-the-user-interface-which-is-currently-awfull/p1

Here you go

. Posted October 1 and 7

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/132499/do-you-think-zos-should-implement-more-things-to-the-user-interface/p1

And here is the one from September.

I guess I'll be back in December 8).

TehMagnus · November 2014

Govalon wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO wrote: »

Could you please point me to your previous monthly post? I'm curious as to how many people actually responded.

I'm interested to see too.

And I even don't want to post "beating a dead horse" picture. IMO this is the best solution for everyone: someone like minimalistic UI - ok, we have it; someone like to see all numbers and all other information - ok, use addon's. This is the main feature! You setup your UI as you (and only you) like. Why should ZOS add addon's functionality in game? Sure, ZOS can easily do it. But if you can do it doesn't mean you should do it!
Yeah, maybe ZOS should expand their API, but not change current UI.

Some of us are waiting for console edition and there won't be addons for consoles. This is another good reason why they should fix the ui. How are we supposed to play with UI that does not even tell you which items you have researched, does not tell you which items you are saving for later. Sure, I could use one hour sorting my inventory for every hour I spend in this beautiful world but why the hell I would wan't to do that? Eso world is too beautiful to spend half your time managing inventory.

This has nothing to do with immersion. If it was by default that you could see which items you have researched just by looking at your inventory, you would not download an addon to hide that iformation to make it more "immersive".

Have to agree that without some a big UI revamp, console release is likely doomed to fail. I just can't wait for the gaming websites reviews on console release if the UI sucks this much and ZOS will only be able to blame themselves for it.

Regarding why shouldn't ZOS do it? Because they already have done it

. Back in beta you had a minimap, you had nameplates (you even had too much information like how much magicka or stamina other people have which isn't good in my opinion).

The API information is there and it's much much easier to manage changes for a team working at ZOS than for addon makers since ZOS is the one making the changes. Many addon makers such as Wykkyd have stated they welcome ZOS to use their code and support it as a basic functionality since it means they would spend more time playing the game than trying to fix it's shortcomings.

Better UI makes sense and can only make gamer's experience easier and more enjoyable without hurting the experience of selfish people like neveradude who likes the UI as it is.

AshySamurai · November 2014

Why you are so sure that it would be impossible to use addons on console? Or ZOS said that it would be impossible?

TehMagnus · November 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I have to remember that "broken" means "I don't like the aesthetic choices made" for future threads. Makes things so much less confusing on this forum.

No mention of "broken" anywhere, but since you're a "Die Hard ZOS fanboy" (till ZOS eventually themselves contradict your statements when they recognize they where wrong like they did in Quakecon), doesn't surprise me you come & try to make a ridiculous statement in a thread asking for improvements though. As for the patches breaking addons it has nothing to do with aesthetic choices.

Ah, gotcha. So it's not broken, but it needs to be fixed. Isn't there a saying about that?

But I'm posting here for others' benefit; your use of the word "fanboy" pretty much negates any ghost of a point you might have.

You're ridiculous. Zenimax went to Quakecon saying basically they had [snip]ed up and where going to fix what they had done wrong (by the way, you've been defending everything they do since day one, which includes the things they admitted to [snip]ing up. Which actually negates any ghost of a point you've ever had and could ever have when defending ZOS like a mindless drone.

AshySamurai · November 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

I have to remember that "broken" means "I don't like the aesthetic choices made" for future threads. Makes things so much less confusing on this forum.

No mention of "broken" anywhere, but since you're a "Die Hard ZOS fanboy" (till ZOS eventually themselves contradict your statements when they recognize they where wrong like they did in Quakecon), doesn't surprise me you come & try to make a ridiculous statement in a thread asking for improvements though. As for the patches breaking addons it has nothing to do with aesthetic choices.

Ah, gotcha. So it's not broken, but it needs to be fixed. Isn't there a saying about that?

But I'm posting here for others' benefit; your use of the word "fanboy" pretty much negates any ghost of a point you might have.

You're ridiculous. Zenimax went to Quakecon saying basically they had [snip]ed up and where going to fix what they had done wrong (by the way, you've been defending everything they do since day one, which includes the things they admitted to [snip]ing up. Which actually negates any ghost of a point you've ever had and could ever have when defending ZOS like a mindless drone.

Fix doesn't mean add addon's functionality. Fix mean that ZOS will do all to make it work as they intended.

AlexDougherty · November 2014

AshySamurai wrote: »

Why you are so sure that it would be impossible to use addons on console? Or ZOS said that it would be impossible?

Add-ons are third party, you would need specialists to write them for Console (I think they use different language to PCs ) which males the issue trickier.

Rosveen · November 2014

AshySamurai wrote: »

Why you are so sure that it would be impossible to use addons on console? Or ZOS said that it would be impossible?

Because consoles don't do mods - especially not in a multiplayer game.

TehMagnus · November 2014

AshySamurai wrote: »

Why you are so sure that it would be impossible to use addons on console? Or ZOS said that it would be impossible?

Because no game has done it before (to my knowledge).

I suppose technically it would be possible to maintain a website accessible from the game (since it's connected to the internet), where you can download addons. Then again there is no guarantee that PC addons would work on console(or that XBOX addons would work on PS4) nor that the API would have the same possibilities it has on PC.

It would be much more easier for them to just fix their UI and make it enter the 21rst century.

Edit: Oh and ofc, the libraries used on PC prolly don't exist for consoles so you gotta dev that all over again.

Tankqull · November 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Why you are so sure that it would be impossible to use addons on console? Or ZOS said that it would be impossible?

Add-ons are third party, you would need specialists to write them for Console (I think they use different language to PCs ) which males the issue trickier.

its even simplier addons have to be signed by sony and microsoft. and they simply don´t that.

AlexDougherty · November 2014

Tankqull wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Why you are so sure that it would be impossible to use addons on console? Or ZOS said that it would be impossible?

Add-ons are third party, you would need specialists to write them for Console (I think they use different language to PCs ) which males the issue trickier.

its even simplier addons have to be signed by sony and microsoft. and they simply don´t that.

Thanks, that's the problem then.

AshySamurai · November 2014

AlexDougherty wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Why you are so sure that it would be impossible to use addons on console? Or ZOS said that it would be impossible?

Add-ons are third party, you would need specialists to write them for Console (I think they use different language to PCs ) which males the issue trickier.

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diabeticDemon18 · November 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Once again, ZOS, please, introduce BASIC changes to your game's UI.

It is not normal that we need to rely on addons to see basic stuff like:
- The timers of the Buffs/Debuffs/DoT's we place on mobs

- Loot/Combat log information with why not a DPS recap in the end. This could easily be integrated to one of the tabs of the chat so it doesn't hinder "immersion" or what ever that is for ZOS.

- Real total immersion. Because yeah, some people don't want ANYTHING on their screens. I might not agree with it or ever want to play like that but this is a BASIC functionality any decent UI claiming to promote immersion should have (which proves even further that your aim wasn't to promote immersion, it was to spend as little money/time as possible on your UI which is probably also why you have never commented on these issues in the forums).

- Search functionality on Guildstores as well as a "Saved Search" feature.

- The ability to move all the UI elements and change the Health/Magicka/Stamina bars shape as well as the ability to modify the way the group's HP is shown (addons like ggframes do this perfectly, allowing the HP bars to actually have information and not take a quarter of the screen and show how much HP your party members have).

All these are basic features whose lack of existence has made a lot of people leave. Follow what you said in Quakecon, fix your mistakes. It begins with this.

Yes Yes, I'm beating a dead horse. And I'll keep beating it until ZOS comments on this issue which they have been avoiding since launch thanks to their Ostrich policy.

Their UI is based off of the Elder Scrolls UI that has always been there -.- They're not going to change an Elder Scrolls UI for Elder Scrolls Online, because it is still an Elder Scrolls Game -.- I've seen so many of these threads and as you said -- THE ADD-ONS DO THIS PERFECTLY -- you should be happy they even give you the option to use add-ons that you think "fix" their UI. Stop complaining about the few people who can't handle adjusting to a new UI, thanks.