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Area taunt for tanks is sorely needed
Lancillotto
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I think tanks are in serious need of some kind of area taunt, when running dungeons it's very hard to keep aggro from all the mobs, and running around poking them one by one would be just insane. The new skill could be added to the Undaunted skill line, so it's accessible to all classes if needed. It could be either stamina or magicka based, as long as it doesn't consume to much of it.
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tanking in this game isn't really designed for the tank to running around holding aggro on every enemy.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)6 -
Orchish✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a Tank in ESO you really are not meant to keep aggro on every mob. This is a bit different from other MMOs but in ESO your job as the tank is to keep aggro on the threats. Go for the boss and a couple mobs in reach, but don't go running after every trash mob. DPS guys should be able to take care of most the trash pretty easily.
That said, as a tank my self i certainly wouldn't mind an aoe taunt. Would make my job a lot easier.0 -
Ragefist✭✭✭✭It has been said many times, this aint wowclone and tanks are not expected to hold aggro on full packs. They identify the biggest threat and tank/control (yea, thats part of tanking too) select mobs, while dps deals with the squishy enemies5 -
Lancillotto✭✭✭lordspyder wrote: »It's not needed here so it's not "Fundamental" It's a L2P issue...
Every MMO out there has tanks with area taunts. Everything that can add some extra strategy to the game should be considered. If you want to stick to the status quo good for you, but that doesn't mean the game cannot be improved. If you don't want an area taunt then just don't waste your skill points on it.6 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lancillotto wrote: »lordspyder wrote: »It's not needed here so it's not "Fundamental" It's a L2P issue...
Every MMO out there has tanks with area taunts. Everything that can add some extra strategy to the game should be considered. If you want to stick to the status quo good for you, but that doesn't mean the game cannot be improved. If you don't want an area taunt then just don't waste your skill points on it.
Every MMO has it is not a valid reason for ESO to have it.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)13 -
Lancillotto✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Lancillotto wrote: »lordspyder wrote: »It's not needed here so it's not "Fundamental" It's a L2P issue...
Every MMO out there has tanks with area taunts. Everything that can add some extra strategy to the game should be considered. If you want to stick to the status quo good for you, but that doesn't mean the game cannot be improved. If you don't want an area taunt then just don't waste your skill points on it.
Every MMO has it is not a valid reason for ESO to have it.
To have a choice is always a good thing.4 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭Lancillotto wrote: »I think tanks are in serious need of some kind of area taunt, when running dungeons it's very hard to keep aggro from all the mobs, and running around poking them one by one would be just insane. The new skill could be added to the Undaunted skill line, so it's accessible to all classes if needed. It could be either stamina or magicka based, as long as it doesn't consume to much of it.
There is a ranged taunt in the Undaunted line, that may help.0 -
Sprinkles28✭✭✭I love comments like "every MMO..." And quite frankly you are mistaken. GW1, GW2, AoC just for starters don't have aoe taunts.
I would hate if ESO had an aoe taunt. Without it groups have to work together to overcome each given situation. The tank has to decide on priority targets rather than running around spawning aoe taunts. AoE taunts make for lazy tanks and lazy groups. I absolutely love tanking in this game and one of the reasons is because it does NOT have aoe taunts.
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lordspyder✭✭✭✭✭Sprinkles28 wrote: »I love comments like "every MMO..." And quite frankly you are mistaken. GW1, GW2, AoC just for starters don't have aoe taunts.
I would hate if ESO had an aoe taunt. Without it groups have to work together to overcome each given situation. The tank has to decide on priority targets rather than running around spawning aoe taunts. AoE taunts make for lazy tanks and lazy groups. I absolutely love tanking in this game and one of the reasons is because it does NOT have aoe taunts.
Exactly, I always play tanks, it's the most fun for me in MMO's but this has been my Favorite MMO to play, I have to make decisions and pay attention to my group here. In past MMO's it's just lay down AOE taunt and soak damage. That get's old.3 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordspyder wrote: »It's not needed here so it's not "Fundamental" It's a L2P issue...
Agreed. Can we not have a one button easymode taunt.3 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭Aoe taunts would completely ruin the whole flow of group pve, one of the things they did to allow this to work is to keep the trash mobs much much weaker than in MMOs with aoe taunts. Remember the trash mobs in WoW for example? They are far more powerful than the ones here, they'd destroy everyone if the tank couldn't taunt them all, and that is the difference with ESO. This allows the designer to give more responsibility to the DPS roles, (control is a DPS job, not a tank job, a misconception that led to the whole problem of people only accepting DKs as tanks because of Talons. That's why sorcerers and archers for example have such amazing aoe roots) which was sorely lacking in previous MMOs, where DPS was just way too easy and boring, where the most exciting part was watching the dps lists.Edited by Zsymon on November 9, 2014 12:25AM4 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭As a DK I love controlling mobs. Why soak the damage of the mob groups when you can cc them and watch them die. The healing in this game is AOE healing and lots of it. Unless some 2 hander mob is heavy hitting a dps the healers usually have no issues. I try to root the melee and taunt the ranged so I can turn them so they don't AOE the group. Why bother with AOE taunting.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB2 -
someuser✭✭✭✭I agree with the camp that says ESO tanking is not designed with aoe taunts in mind for the exact reasons that @Zsymon and others have said.
However, unlike dps (and to an extend healing), tanking takes a lot more thought. Additionally, different games handle the role of the tank differently. This can make tanking in a "new" mmo confusing to even vet tanks.
I know when I first joined, I wanted to be a tank. I dropped it when there was no aoe skill because I assumed I had to, as the OP put it, poke every enemy with a stick lol
Live and learn.To make ESO look and feel like a PC MMO check out the following:
PhinixUI addon-powered interface for ESO0 -
aco5712✭✭✭✭✭you can take the initial aggro from all the mobs by going in first and using aoe. THat will let you hold most of the aggro.
Volcanic rune is nice
If your NB, sap essence/path
if your DK, talons/inhale/cinder storm to some extend
if your sorc, encase maybe? lightning flood? idk thats a hard one
if your templar, solar barrage/reflective light maybe/blazing shieldBanned for Naming and Shaming exploiters. Great ideology ZOS.
#FreeLeo
Main: Vir Cor | Dragonknight
Alt: Leo Cor | Nightblade
Alt: Leonidas Cor | Templar
Guild: K-Hole
Youtube: CorESO
DK PvP Tank/DPS Hybrid Build (2.1+): Cor Leonis1 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lancillotto wrote: »
ZOS has a concept of "features" that quite frankly would fail game design 101..I play every class in every situation. I love them all.4 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Though I sort of agree, ZoS has said before they didn't want this sort of feature in the game. Maybe they will change their mind, but just in case: try to make use of CCs or, when you first pull as the tank, try an AoE attack to get all the mobs to aggro on you initially. Random mobs running around shouldn't be a problem for a group (for the most part), so after that, tank the biggest threats and if someone calls for help, grab that mob. Also, keep the undaunted taunt handy so you don't have to run up to something to poke it.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
Sandmanninja✭✭✭✭I still don't see why there can't be a skill point cost with a morph (maybe activated from the undaunted skill tree?) to give AoE taunt. Talons, fire, something.
If the healer or sorcerer sneezes, all the trash goes running straight for them.
I'm not saying I want a one-button easy-mode tank game, but there are only two defined taunts in the game - one in the DK class and one with the undaunted. Period. And currently those are 'messed up' due to the most recent patch.
I genuinely care about being the group protector. I use to say, "I put the Protection into Prot Pallies". So, yes, I find it a bit of a failure of the healer can't heal because he has a mob pounding on him. I learned in Spindleclutch that you can't pull small mobs in ESO. I mean, the whole room gets pulled. At least give the Group Protector SOMETHING to help contain that.
[Hard Mode Dungeoneers] is recruiting all players of all levels for this new Guild.
THIS IS A NEW-BUT-GROWING GUILD. We are focused on doing vet pledges, vet dungeons, getting achieves, & doing hard mode bosses.
Most active GMT+10 (Australia time zone) in the afternoon Mon-Fri and all day Sat/Sun.
Pst/email for info/invites.0 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There really is no reason to have an AOE taunt in eso. I've tanked every dungeon hundreds of times and not once have I thought I needed an AOE taunt.
The concept of the game is for everyone to be able to shift roles, the DPS and the healer need to be able to take a few hits and thats why you can be a heavy armor healer if you really wanted to.
For the spindleclutch reference, you just have to learn the fights. You can indeed pull small groups of mobs, but you will pull whole rooms and even multiple rooms if you aren't careful.
Check out my spindleclutch run here
Edit to respond to 'group protector'
On this concept, it is fundamentally against the tank design in the game. The tanks job in this game is not to "protect" the group from taking any damage, just as its not the healer's role to keep everyone "topped" up at all times. Over healing in this game will bring massive aggro upon you, you have to weave in attacks and heals to maintain a decent aggro, but not be the biggest threat.
The tanks job is simply to control the hardest hitting meanie and to make sure that if there is something like a large frontal AOE it doesn't hit the group.
Perfect example of tanking in the game is the 2nd boss in BC, that fight is actually perfect lol.Edited by yodased on November 9, 2014 4:55AMTl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.2 -
Nihil✭✭✭Lancillotto wrote: »lordspyder wrote: »It's not needed here so it's not "Fundamental" It's a L2P issue...
Every MMO out there has tanks with area taunts. Everything that can add some extra strategy to the game should be considered. If you want to stick to the status quo good for you, but that doesn't mean the game cannot be improved. If you don't want an area taunt then just don't waste your skill points on it.
Area taunt will actually do the inverse of what you are asking (adding strategy to the game). It would be basically aoe taunt group, turtle up, dps aoe everything.4 -
Circuitous✭✭✭✭✭I've had some tanks taunt/aggro entire groups of mobs before. They die. Really, really quickly. Don't do that to me.Ｔｈａｎｋ Ｓｔｅｎｄａｒｒ ｉｔ’ｓ Ｆｒｅｄａｓ．
Elanirne: Altmer Templar Healer, DC
Auria Dolabella: Imperial Nightblade Tank, DC3 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why are people so unbelievably oblivious about this games mechanics? Tanks are NOT supposed to tank every mob. They will be fodder of they try to do so. They will run out kf stamina and get hit by several heavy attack at once. Healer CANNOT keep up =bb tank and bb group. People should stop asking for features while they know nothing about the game.4 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭As a DK I love controlling mobs. Why soak the damage of the mob groups when you can cc them and watch them die. The healing in this game is AOE healing and lots of it. Unless some 2 hander mob is heavy hitting a dps the healers usually have no issues. I try to root the melee and taunt the ranged so I can turn them so they don't AOE the group. Why bother with AOE taunting.
Right, just because you happen to be a DK, it does not mean that rooting monsters is a tank job, because none of the other class tanks are very good at aoe rooting, or able to do it at all. Every class should be able to play a tank, yet because of such ideas people only accept DKs, a situation which I'm sure was not meant to happen by ZOS.
People need to realize rooting is not a job for the tank, the tank only needs to stay alive and keep aggro on the greatest threat. In this game bosses are a major threat, but trash mobs are almost no threat at all (unless the tank takes aggro on all trash mobs, then he dies as mentioned before). If more people would know this, maybe there would be far more demand for archers in dungeons for example. Right now everyone expects every tank to be a DK because of that one stupid overpowered skill.Edited by Zsymon on November 9, 2014 8:50AM0 -
Circuitous✭✭✭✭✭As a DK I love controlling mobs. Why soak the damage of the mob groups when you can cc them and watch them die. The healing in this game is AOE healing and lots of it. Unless some 2 hander mob is heavy hitting a dps the healers usually have no issues. I try to root the melee and taunt the ranged so I can turn them so they don't AOE the group. Why bother with AOE taunting.
Right, just because you happen to be a DK, it does not mean that rooting monsters is a tank job, because none of the other class tanks are very good at aoe rooting, or able to do it at all. Every class should be able to play a tank, yet because of such ideas people only accept DKs, a situation which I'm sure was not meant to happen by ZOS.
People need to realize rooting is not a job for the tank, the tank only needs to stay alive and keep aggro on the greatest threat. In this game bosses are a major threat, but trash mobs are almost no threat at all (unless the tank takes aggro on all trash mobs, then he dies as mentioned before). If more people would know this, maybe there would be far more demand for archers in dungeons for example. Right now everyone expects every tank to be a DK because of that one stupid overpowered skill.
In fairness, roots are amazing for so many encounters, especially ones with swarming adds or other such situations. Not strictly necessary for trash mobs, no (I generally prefer to get them all bunched up nice and tight, anyway), but in a lot of situations there's really no replacement. I wish the Undaunted line had a root.Ｔｈａｎｋ Ｓｔｅｎｄａｒｒ ｉｔ’ｓ Ｆｒｅｄａｓ．
Elanirne: Altmer Templar Healer, DC
Auria Dolabella: Imperial Nightblade Tank, DC0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Id like a proper aggro system with threat modifiers on sword/shield skills and some weapon morphs.P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.1 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭Circuitous wrote: »In fairness, roots are amazing for so many encounters, especially ones with swarming adds or other such situations. Not strictly necessary for trash mobs, no (I generally prefer to get them all bunched up nice and tight, anyway), but in a lot of situations there's really no replacement. I wish the Undaunted line had a root.
Archers and Sorcerers also have amazing aoe roots, let them do it and leave the tank to tanking.
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