Have they finally killed their own game?

Cherryblossom · November 2014

I would say no, they put in a lot of good stuff.

But you are right about the Bugs, they need to sit back sometimes and say, this has bugs, lets iron them out then release.

Jitterbug · November 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm very tempted to cancel sub and come back in a few months because I hate paying for something that isn't working right.

A break might not be a bad idea. I enjoyed mine.

Hazadus76 · November 2014

I see many people are saying that the vet exp bug is no biggie, they'll just do something else with their alts. What about the people who aren't aware of this bug and are trudging along unaware? Shouldn't a warning be posted on the launcher or something?

Vahrokh · November 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

That is what you consider killing a game? new to mmo? WoW mmo you couldnt even play the druid class for a month and a half on release lol.

Actually, you could pretend playing "a class" called druid for much more than a month and half yet it only started working after the feral druid tree got completely redone.

liquid_wolf · November 2014

I've done more dungeons in the past two days, than I did weeks before.

I've had people thoroughly enjoying content, and working to progress... more logins every night, and simply a more enjoyed game overall.

Bugs? Yeah... but my fellow players appear to be ignoring them for the time being.

Guppet · November 2014

Heishi wrote: »

OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THING WE DIDN'T HAVE A FEW WEEKS AGO DOESN'T WORK, THIS RUINS THE WHOLE GAME FOR ME.

Seriously... gtf over it.

Group Finder borked.. hasn't worked well since launch what's new here?

Alchemy quests don't work, this clearly impact the game experience you're already used to. Oh wait this is new and wasn't a part of the game experience before... so... were you to ignore it. It would be just like before.

Vet Level taking too long to raise. You found all these links, but didn't find the one where ZOS already addressed this and said they were aware. They noted the problem was players were not being given the proper amount of XP and this "should" be resolved in their first incremental patch.

Looks to me like they are aware of the dungeon difficulty issue too.

Major content updates always introduce new bugs. Even most of the minor patches introduce new bugs. I've not seen and MMO where this doesn't happen. Not sure why it's even a surprise.

ZOS didn't kill ESO because of a hand full of new bugs. It's a gross exaggeration to whine and try to make a useless point

You do know that I linked Zos's responses in the op right? Nice to see you read the whole thing before letting your gob loose.

Spottswoode · November 2014

Guppet wrote: »

The problem being that many are now trying other games and its nigh on impossible to bring players back to an MMO once they leave.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/heavy-users.html
It is, in fact, ridiculously easy to get many former subscribers to return. You may not get all of the subscribers you lose back, but you will definitely get many. We can tell this from WoW's resurgence of subscriptions prior to it's new content release. It's certainly true that many of the subscribers who go to other MMO's will probably hang around there for a while, but the fact is that everyone who is not a heavy user of MMO's will eventually become bored and go someplace else. Therefore, it is not in ZOS's best interest to focus on placating the more fickle consumers who will come and go anyway. It takes a lot for heavy users to abandon a preferred product. We're talking cancer, severely bad customer service, acts of violence, and terrible experience with the product. In many cases, the producer will go out of business before the customer abandons the product for a new one. Even in that case, they have an extremely high tendency to seek the product which is the most similar.

Instead, ZOS's time is much better spent developing new content and fixing bugs at the same time. Whilst many of you would like to see new content development suspended to focus on bug fixing for a while, this is also not in ZOS's best interest. If ZOS decides to suspend development of new content, they reduce the chance they have to attract new heavy users and lighter consumers with their upcoming console release. Granted, they must fix many of the game breaking bugs here and there for the product to be usable but the focus of bug fixes is to make the product usable a percentage of the time and not to make it perfect. Thus, the dual nature of development (new content and bug fixes) must be mostly consistent for this game to have any hope of expanding into new markets. While more subscribers is certainly better than less, it's not in the developers interest to focus entirely on keeping the most current subscribers it can either.

It's not rocket science. People who love this game will likely stay here to bear out some bugs. At the same time, ZOS will focus on fixing the bigger bugs and development of new content so that most current subscribers will stay and maybe possibly some of the fickle customers will stay. ZOS will try some trending things here and there to attract new customers and work on serving the customers it has.

TL;DR: Bleeding a few subscribers with every patch is hardly of concern to the bigger picture. Fickle customers aren't worth the time unless they are your target market. It's pretty safe to say that fickle customers are not the most frequent users of MMO's. So quit whining or take a number.

daneyulebub17_ESO · November 2014

You do know that I linked Zos's responses in the op right? Nice to see you read the whole thing before letting your gob loose.

RUN!!!!

THERE'S A GOB ON THE LOOSE!!!!

OrangeTheCat · November 2014

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug. Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it. People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game. I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players. Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

An apologist's credo if I ever saw one. Can't we all just agree to disagree? Cultural relativism? Political correctness perhaps?

A lot of small bugs is forgivable. They were probably identified and deemed more of an annoyance and not show stoppers. But major subsystem failures (like the LFG tool and XP)? Probably should have stopped release. Surely they were identified before release and if not then another indicator of either gross incompetence or maybe negligence.

And what about the issues since day one? Sluggish/laggy skills? Broken NB invisibility? Etc, name your "favorites". How do we oppologize those away after so much time has passed?

Welka · November 2014

Every update the same, minor bugs = doom sayers...

*yawn*

Guppet · November 2014

Welka wrote: »

Every update the same, minor bugs = doom sayers...

*yawn*

Minor bugs? People cant play VR characters, as they are not advancing, due to getting 8th of the XP they used to get!! it was advised to ZOS well before the patch left the PTS, Minor bugs? don't make me laugh!!

TehMagnus · November 2014

Spottswoode wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

The problem being that many are now trying other games and its nigh on impossible to bring players back to an MMO once they leave.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/heavy-users.html
It is, in fact, ridiculously easy to get many former subscribers to return. You may not get all of the subscribers you lose back, but you will definitely get many. We can tell this from WoW's resurgence of subscriptions prior to it's new content release. It's certainly true that many of the subscribers who go to other MMO's will probably hang around there for a while, but the fact is that everyone who is not a heavy user of MMO's will eventually become bored and go someplace else. Therefore, it is not in ZOS's best interest to focus on placating the more fickle consumers who will come and go anyway. It takes a lot for heavy users to abandon a preferred product. We're talking cancer, severely bad customer service, acts of violence, and terrible experience with the product. In many cases, the producer will go out of business before the customer abandons the product for a new one. Even in that case, they have an extremely high tendency to seek the product which is the most similar.

Instead, ZOS's time is much better spent developing new content and fixing bugs at the same time. Whilst many of you would like to see new content development suspended to focus on bug fixing for a while, this is also not in ZOS's best interest. If ZOS decides to suspend development of new content, they reduce the chance they have to attract new heavy users and lighter consumers with their upcoming console release. Granted, they must fix many of the game breaking bugs here and there for the product to be usable but the focus of bug fixes is to make the product usable a percentage of the time and not to make it perfect. Thus, the dual nature of development (new content and bug fixes) must be mostly consistent for this game to have any hope of expanding into new markets. While more subscribers is certainly better than less, it's not in the developers interest to focus entirely on keeping the most current subscribers it can either.

It's not rocket science. People who love this game will likely stay here to bear out some bugs. At the same time, ZOS will focus on fixing the bigger bugs and development of new content so that most current subscribers will stay and maybe possibly some of the fickle customers will stay. ZOS will try some trending things here and there to attract new customers and work on serving the customers it has.

TL;DR: Bleeding a few subscribers with every patch is hardly of concern to the bigger picture. Fickle customers aren't worth the time unless they are your target market. It's pretty safe to say that fickle customers are not the most frequent users of MMO's. So quit whining or take a number.

You're my new hero.

clayandaudrey_ESO · November 2014

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug. Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it. People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game. I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players. Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

Death recap

Crit by wall of text 10000

Point is taken but paragraphs please.

Heishi · November 2014

Guppet wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THING WE DIDN'T HAVE A FEW WEEKS AGO DOESN'T WORK, THIS RUINS THE WHOLE GAME FOR ME.

Seriously... gtf over it.

Group Finder borked.. hasn't worked well since launch what's new here?

Alchemy quests don't work, this clearly impact the game experience you're already used to. Oh wait this is new and wasn't a part of the game experience before... so... were you to ignore it. It would be just like before.

Vet Level taking too long to raise. You found all these links, but didn't find the one where ZOS already addressed this and said they were aware. They noted the problem was players were not being given the proper amount of XP and this "should" be resolved in their first incremental patch.

Looks to me like they are aware of the dungeon difficulty issue too.

Major content updates always introduce new bugs. Even most of the minor patches introduce new bugs. I've not seen and MMO where this doesn't happen. Not sure why it's even a surprise.

ZOS didn't kill ESO because of a hand full of new bugs. It's a gross exaggeration to whine and try to make a useless point

You do know that I linked Zos's responses in the op right? Nice to see you read the whole thing before letting your gob loose.

I noted that you found links, right before I mentioned the ZOS awareness. I assumed despite the link maybe you were not aware. Being aware ZOS already has plans to resolve the issues and complaining to the degree of saying they killed ESO is pointless and melodramatic.

Really, it's like knowing your car's got an oil leak, taking it to the mechanic, then complaining the entire time about how the car will never run again.

It'll be ok. You said you've been here since early access. You've survived a lot of MUCH MUCH worse bugs. Full banks going empty, players crossing into each other's accounts, quest necessary to move forward in the game broke, unstable server connections, the list goes on and some of those early bugs ZOS had denied or went silent on.

There's been notable strides since the beginning trying to provide more information, or at least acknowledging issues or saying this was an unintended effect. Sure they still have plenty of room to improve, there are many bugs and issues they still don't readily address, but at least the bigger ones they've been doing pretty good with.

mandragor1996 · November 2014

I have played the game about 2 weeks and so far this is the most fun I have had in an MMO in a long time. As a new player this game has allot to offer so they wont have problems getting new players to stay a while if they get them started.

loudent · November 2014

I have to agree. I *really* want to like this game, but its like....everything they do to make it better makes it worse for all except a certain "core" set. Unfortunately a game can't survive on those core players alone.

AriBoh · November 2014

1.5 has frustrated me no end and its time for that break that was suggested, I was planning on leaving mu sub up while I play other things as a lot of stuff is coming out this month. But really 1.5 and some other stuff prior makes me feel like they don't deserve my support (meager as it is) till they fix their sheet.

diabeticDemon18 · November 2014

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug. Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it. People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game. I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players. Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

Death recap

Crit by wall of text 10000

Point is taken but paragraphs please.

I know, I'm sorry. I was on a rant, when someone rants they generally don't use proper grammar... I guess I could go back and edit it...

Guppet · November 2014

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug. Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it. People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game. I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players. Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

Death recap

Crit by wall of text 10000

Point is taken but paragraphs please.

I know, I'm sorry. I was on a rant, when someone rants they generally don't use proper grammar... I guess I could go back and edit it...

Pah, I used proper formatting in the op, your just lazy :P

diabeticDemon18 · November 2014

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug.

Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it.

People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game.

I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players.

Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

Is this better? lol

diabeticDemon18 · November 2014

Guppet wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug. Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it. People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game. I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players. Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

Death recap

Crit by wall of text 10000

Point is taken but paragraphs please.

I know, I'm sorry. I was on a rant, when someone rants they generally don't use proper grammar... I guess I could go back and edit it...

Pah, I used proper formatting in the op, your just lazy :P

Good think I went back and edited it... sorry that I hurt your feelings by disagreeing, but don't call me lazy. You don't even know me.

Slurg · November 2014

Hazadus76 wrote: »

I see many people are saying that the vet exp bug is no biggie, they'll just do something else with their alts. What about the people who aren't aware of this bug and are trudging along unaware? Shouldn't a warning be posted on the launcher or something?

Of course but I haven't seen one. I feel bad for the people who have to figure it out the hard way. Some of them will rage quit.

Long term, continuing to knowingly put bugs identified in PTS into a release without warning the user base may end up killing the game eventually.

But I do not think that day is today.

Edited to add: as one of the people who'll be doing other things so it's not a show stopper, one of the main reasons I continue to visit this forum full of doom and gloom is to see what bugs others have encounterd so I can avoid them.

I hate to see people who were once having so much fun give up and leave.

Guppet · November 2014

Much as a I love the game, it does not really matter at this point that I have game time, there no point playing when its so frustrating, its only 8.99 a month anyway. Ill be back when the champion system comes out, that's going to be like a re-boot of the game.

I still have 29 days of forum posting though, so you lucky lucky lot can enjoy my company :P

I just hope that people can have a bit more patience for this than me, I thought I was patient enough, but there are some true saints here it seems.

SWTOR now downloaded and expansion bought. I don't imagine anyone cares, but just thought id let them know where at least one customer has gone. Hopefully be back someday to a much improved game.

If a mod could get my sub refunded, that would be super, if not oh well.

liquid_wolf · November 2014

The amount of people that return to Final Fantasy 14, EVE Online, and RIFT is incredible.

People leave a game for a few months, and return after an update or change is made....

I've had four subscriptions to MMORPGs going at the same time without issue... and the only thing that usually makes me swear off an MMORPG forever is a change in how the MMORPG will do business or change focus on how they will develop content.

If people rage quit they will usually return later because "rage quitting" is by definition not consistent behavior. Influenced by feelings, they'll likely return when nostalgia hits them, or some other game makes them find something else.

So... new content = likely to get your old subscribers to return... even if only for a few months at a time.

zbtiqua · November 2014

100% Agree with OP

AaronMB · November 2014

Spottswoode wrote: »

TL;DR: Bleeding a few subscribers with every patch is hardly of concern to the bigger picture...

Indeed - even if it's not what we want to hear. Obviously, if ZoS was that concerned about it, many of the issues we want fixed 'now' would get more attention.

Kronuxx · November 2014

Seriously, why do people *** over the most mundane crap.

This game has enjoyable combat, and yes the dungeons seem to be more difficult, but I enjoy this as it challenges me. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not asking to get face-rolled every time I do a dungeon, and there should be balance. And yes of course, the whole XP gain is bugged as well but come on kids (to those complaining), you'll live. Your life won't end.

Look, honestly...yes they're patches can be quite bugged, there's no disputing that fact. Yes, I agree to a certain extent that they should perhaps improve their QA department, and perhaps they should extend the length of their PTS patches before releasing the final live version. But to moan and complain and threaten leaving, really does no good for anyone. I'd say 90% of those who complain about the buggy patches and proclaim they are rage quitting, probably never even contributed in the first place in testing out PTS to help report bugs. I play on the PTS when the test patches come out, and I'm telling you and everyone else right now...that place is a GHOST TOWN. No one, and I mean NO ONE will be on there. Maybe 1-2 times I've logged in, I'll see ONE other player, that's it. So guess what happens? The final live version becomes our test version? Why? Because everyone plays it, so more chances to discover a bug. Granted, this isn't an excuse to have quite buggy final versions of the patch, but at the same time, we all can do our part and test out the PTS and report bugs. The more people report the same kind of bug, the more likely the dev team can see that yes it is a bug they must address and not just some one time occurrence if only 1-2 people report such a bug on the PTS server.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

PSLAnimal · November 2014

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Pah, I used proper formatting in the op, your just lazy :P

*You're.

Guppet · November 2014

Kronuxx wrote: »

Seriously, why do people *** over the most mundane crap.

This game has enjoyable combat, and yes the dungeons seem to be more difficult, but I enjoy this as it challenges me. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not asking to get face-rolled every time I do a dungeon, and there should be balance. And yes of course, the whole XP gain is bugged as well but come on kids (to those complaining), you'll live. Your life won't end.

Look, honestly...yes they're patches can be quite bugged, there's no disputing that fact. Yes, I agree to a certain extent that they should perhaps improve their QA department, and perhaps they should extend the length of their PTS patches before releasing the final live version. But to moan and complain and threaten leaving, really does no good for anyone. I'd say 90% of those who complain about the buggy patches and proclaim they are rage quitting, probably never even contributed in the first place in testing out PTS to help report bugs. I play on the PTS when the test patches come out, and I'm telling you and everyone else right now...that place is a GHOST TOWN. No one, and I mean NO ONE will be on there. Maybe 1-2 times I've logged in, I'll see ONE other player, that's it. So guess what happens? The final live version becomes our test version? Why? Because everyone plays it, so more chances to discover a bug. Granted, this isn't an excuse to have quite buggy final versions of the patch, but at the same time, we all can do our part and test out the PTS and report bugs. The more people report the same kind of bug, the more likely the dev team can see that yes it is a bug they must address and not just some one time occurrence if only 1-2 people report such a bug on the PTS server.

Also as has been said time and again, the xp bug was advised on the ptr, it still went live. So pretty much everything you said was drivel.

Any paying customer has the right to complain, if something is not up to scratch.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version and edited response]

Garetth · November 2014

The xp bug is a major f*ck up but the crafting dallies seem to be worthless too.

I have done the Blacksmithing, clothing and woodworking dallies 5 times now and each time it costs me 75-100 nightwood, void ingots, shadowhide or void cloth.

So this week I used 375-500 of each of these refined materials and in return each day I get about 300 gold, a repair kit and some worthless trait stones or some white junk item. I don't even break even cost wise and that's not even considering the time it takes to farm these materials

15 turn ins and not one survey map. Bad RNG? Maybe, but this daily certainly isn't worth it IMHO.