Have they finally killed their own game?

Guppet · November 2014

So 1.5 is probably the biggest series of catastrophic bugs I have ever witnessed. I have witnessed a few. Lets take a look at the patch and what it was about.

The patch may as well have been called 1.5 LFG, it was all about a reason to do daily dungeons. So what bugs made it through that effect that.

First the group finder is completely borked-
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1359136#Comment_1359136
Secondly they messed up the dungeon difficulties-
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1360803#Comment_1360803
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1359119#Comment_1359119

So for a patch that is there to get group going, its a bit poor to not have those elements working.

They also added crafting dailies for solo players or people who love crafting.
Only problem being that Alchemy quests defiantly don't work and Enchanting has issues too (I have not come up against that though)-
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1353092#Comment_1353092
But chances are your not going to be able to collect any rewards from it solo, as they appear in Craglorn next to packs of VR11-14 mobs, wtf?

The other thing this patch was about was bringing the next level of the champion system, to get rid of VP and make VR levelling quicker.

They made it take 8 times longer to level than previously, despite that being identified on the PTS-
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1359053#Comment_1359053

So all the major content was bugged and if you complete any of it, your not getting any sort of reward at all.

I have had a lot of patience, keeping hoping they get things right in the end, but this is grossly incompetent. They actually appear to be getting worse and worse. Arent they supposed to get better at developing as time passes, that's what I told myself to justify staying after their other balls ups.

Luckily for ZOS they managed to take my subscription first thing yesterday, so before I was able to test most of this sheet. I have been here since early access without cancelling, so im not easily shaken, but if this is not fully resolved and things heading in a very much more positive direction, that's the last they will get out of me.

They have WoW with an expansion and SWTOR also with an expansion to consider and so far all we are getting is they are looking into things (oh so many things they are looking into).

I think the fact we cant actually play the game without massively screwing ourselves over (due to almost all quest xp being lost and we wont get it back), until they fix things (when?) means that they need to be looking at far more than we will sort it when we can, you need to start compensating people for lost game time.

The problem being that many are now trying other games and its nigh on impossible to bring players back to an MMO once they leave.

I know its a massive rant, but patience is only so long and this really does seem like a patch that they will struggle to recover from. Who is betting that the live stream won't even mention any of the game stopping problems they currently face. Head in the sand time for the devs!!!

Gyudan · November 2014

Sure, there are a few bugs but update 5 is mostly a good progress. I haven't had that much fun in ESO in months.

whsprwind · November 2014

I'm still having faith in the game - but another foul up or two like this i'm not sure it'll turn out well.

OP's words holds truth not to be ignored

Epona222 · November 2014

Eh? I'm having a whale of a time with update 5, sure there are a few wrinkles to be ironed out (and yes Alchemy writs are currently bugged), but the crafting writs in general are great.
Sometimes I see posts like this and wonder if I'm playing a completely different game.

KenjiJU · November 2014

You could also look at survey reports as a bonus to high level players who actually spent their points in crafting vs using an alt and saving points on their main. Hmm?

Haven't tested it myself because I don't have that situation with an alt crafter, but have you tried swapping the report through the bank? Works for other things like bound collectibles.

Gythral · November 2014

Epona222 wrote: »

Eh? I'm having a whale of a time with update 5, sure there are a few wrinkles to be ironed out (and yes Alchemy writs are currently bugged), but the crafting writs in general are great.
Sometimes I see posts like this and wonder if I'm playing a completely different game.

You are ...
Out of the 4 major changes done this patch, the writs are the least bugged, with only Alchemy having a major Homer moment!
VR points to XP, someone didnt think and tried to change everything, instead of just increasing the quest XP (engineering maxim KISS), as a result there is almost no XP for anything and the means both levelling and levelling skills is broken (and some many skill got changed people are looking at different morphs)
Grouping will probably need 2 or 3 passes to get the scaling about right, the group tool will need another rewrite & probably the within X levels or you dont get any XP will need looking at!
Dwemer ruins are more often littered with empty containers than not.

So clearly if all you are doing since 1.5 are the crafting writs you are playing a different game to those complaining most!

Guppet · November 2014

KenjiJU wrote: »

You could also look at survey reports as a bonus to high level players who actually spent their points in crafting vs using an alt and saving points on their main.

Haven't tested it myself because I don't have that situation with an crafter, but have you tried swapping the report through the bank? Works for other things like bound collectibles.

My crafter alt is VR7, so not really a problem for me personally. In fact with the bugs, its the only thing im currently doing. The fact that only the enchanting, provisioning and Alchemy (when it works) ones are worth repeating daily, due to just how much you loose on the others (I have done them all at least once).

So far I have had surveys that gave me enchanting parts next to a pack of VR12 wasps and a blacksmithing one that game me ore next to a VR13 troll in craglorn, that aggroed a pack of humans (which were no where near it when they aggroed). I survived both experiences, due to other players and use of utilities ( I can take most packs solo, but wasps are immune to CC and that troll would have been no problem, but the extra pack for no reason, what is that about (had a fair few extra packs yesterday for no noticeable reason). But its not in any way a good place to put rewards for solo players.

Love the combat in this game and the world and stories, but the constant screw ups by the devs are just beyond frustrating.

Epona222 · November 2014

Gythral wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Eh? I'm having a whale of a time with update 5, sure there are a few wrinkles to be ironed out (and yes Alchemy writs are currently bugged), but the crafting writs in general are great.
Sometimes I see posts like this and wonder if I'm playing a completely different game.

You are ...
Out of the 4 major changes done this patch, the writs are the least bugged, with only Alchemy having a major Homer moment!
VR points to XP, someone didnt think and tried to change everything, instead of just increasing the quest XP (engineering maxim KISS), as a result there is almost no XP for anything and the means both levelling and levelling skills is broken (and some many skill got changed people are looking at different morphs)
Grouping will probably need 2 or 3 passes to get the scaling about right, the group tool will need another rewrite & probably the within X levels or you dont get any XP will need looking at!
Dwemer ruins are more often littered with empty containers than not.

So clearly if all you are doing since 1.5 are the crafting writs you are playing a different game to those complaining most!

Yes I am doing crafting writs, they are great.
I only have 1 character at VR level, and am only doing guild organised Craglorn stuff with her until the Champion system is implemented.
I group with guildmates or (last resort) by hanging out at the front of a dungeon, I have never used the Group Finder.
Dwemer ruins seem to be affected by the empty container bug that many of us have been complaining about for months now - it's just that now there is something deemed as valuable that people feel they might be missing out on, it has now become a big thing. It is not new to update 5.

TehMagnus · November 2014

They haven't, this is the milestone for the game actually becoming an even more awesome one.

CapuchinSeven · November 2014

There are some really stupid bugs in this patch that yet again I have no idea how they made it into live because some of them are just baffling, how the two handed bug made it into live is just bleh, I mean it's not like this was some untouched feature they missed they made an active change to Momentum and it's totally broken, they either are totally inept or just stuck the new skill in the patch notes like we some how wouldn't know or something.

Then you get the "we're investigated the problem" line.

And they broke stealth again.

THAT SAID, this has actually been one of the better patches in terms of bugs.

BBSooner · November 2014

When the bugs get ironed out, the additions with this patch will be enjoyed a lot. If anything, this was just a good content patch with bad bugs in it.

Gedalya · November 2014

Thechemicals · November 2014

That is what you consider killing a game? new to mmo? WoW mmo you couldnt even play the druid class for a month and a half on release lol.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · November 2014

Yes, there are a few bugs but EVERYONE that I have talked to has said that the game is even better than before. It appears that it will continue to improve and grow with the promised features so I don't think the game can be considered 'killed'. This is called growing pains and it just takes time. Everything has growing pains, including human beings. How long did it take for anyone to go from less than a year old to be a fully functional adult? OK, some of us are still not fully functional or adults.

And I have to tell you that when I tried WoW, it was full of bugs and the game had been out for YEARS, not just less than a year. SWTOR didn't have as many bugs when I tried it but it was a very linear game and if you managed to get stuck on a quest, there was nothing you could do. You could not abandon the quest and avoid it until you were a higher level.

Overall, ESO is doing remarkably well in comparison with the other two games. But you can't please everyone all the time. There is room for improvement to be sure. It still has a ways to go before it feels like a TES game, but it is getting there. So while some of the players will leave, some will leave and come back, it is the ones that stick around that will see the full extent of the improvements as they happen.

spryler · November 2014

I think the people who write these posts are the same kids who tattled on fellow students when the teacher had to step out of the classroom. It seems they get their enjoyment out of criticizing others, not actually playing the game. If they actually enjoyed playing the game, they would realize that it's really not that big of a deal. I mean, if it's so catastrophically bad, why are they still playing? They love to hate, plain and simple

Kalman · November 2014

Guppet wrote: »

Alchemy quests defiantly don't work

Those damn Defiant quests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5OT8yGeL7U

lordspyder · November 2014

spryler wrote: »

I think the people who write these posts are the same kids who tattled on fellow students when the teacher had to step out of the classroom. It seems they get their enjoyment out of criticizing others, not actually playing the game. If they actually enjoyed playing the game, they would realize that it's really not that big of a deal. I mean, if it's so catastrophically bad, why are they still playing? They love to hate, plain and simple

While The XP bug has stopped my main in her tracks, it is not a deal breaker. This just gives me an excuse to finally level those Alts I've been telling myself I would eventually get around to playing.

I really think that people who post threads like this have never played an MMO before in their life.

Erock25 · November 2014

I can't believe the people defending this patch. Are you kidding me? Basically everything they tried to implement is broken and many, MANY of those things were reported on PTS and ignored. I think it comes down to them having a poor base code and they will always have these problems. I'm very tempted to cancel sub and come back in a few months because I hate paying for something that isn't working right.

PSLAnimal · November 2014

Ohioastro · November 2014

I expect that we'll see most of this fixed on Monday; you'll really quit a MMO because it took them a week to debug changes in a patch? The cost of having them tinkering with major game systems is a shakedown period. If it stays broken that'd be a different issue - but they've flagged these things as bugs and promise to deal with them quickly, and they have a good track record of delivering on items like that.

Guppet · November 2014

lordspyder wrote: »

spryler wrote: »

I think the people who write these posts are the same kids who tattled on fellow students when the teacher had to step out of the classroom. It seems they get their enjoyment out of criticizing others, not actually playing the game. If they actually enjoyed playing the game, they would realize that it's really not that big of a deal. I mean, if it's so catastrophically bad, why are they still playing? They love to hate, plain and simple

While The XP bug has stopped my main in her tracks, it is not a deal breaker. This just gives me an excuse to finally level those Alts I've been telling myself I would eventually get around to playing.

I really think that people who post threads like this have never played an MMO before in their life.

What an utterly ignorant comment. You cant tell anything about a persons gaming history from their posts, unless they provide details. I've been in MMO's for well over a decade, since the first EQ.

I was there when wow launched from day one. I saw their teething pains, there were some (mostly server stability and queues, since it was more popular than they ever expected, this was the other way round), but no where near this level 7 months in.

The devs and bugs should be getting better, to me they are getting worse and don't even acknowledge them fully. Not being able to level you VR characters is two thirds of the content ffs, that is not acceptable. Some of us have all the alts we want and they are all in VR, so currently worthless.

ers101284b14_ESO · November 2014

Judging by the amount of new and returning players.....No

hellkrasher · November 2014

Hahaha this post is funny.

Screwed dungeons difficulty... lol. They are the less dificult content for max lvls... pliz, instead of blaming the game of been "to hard" try to focus on how to improve your gameplay. Random pugs are doing the dungeons... im sure if you find some friends and learn how to play you ill be able to do them too...

diabeticDemon18 · November 2014

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug.

Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it.

People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game.

I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players.

Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

Robocles · November 2014

Epona222 wrote: »

Eh? I'm having a whale of a time with update 5, sure there are a few wrinkles to be ironed out (and yes Alchemy writs are currently bugged), but the crafting writs in general are great.
Sometimes I see posts like this and wonder if I'm playing a completely different game.

He quoted a number of major issues with the very things touted for the content release.

Sometimes I see posts like yours and wonder if you even read the OP fully.

Robocles · November 2014

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug. Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it. People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game. I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players. Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

The enter key is your friend.

lordspyder · November 2014

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug. Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it. People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game. I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players. Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

While I agree with what you said, please use paragraphs next time, it makes reading a wall of text much easier...

diabeticDemon18 · November 2014

Robocles wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Ok. Some people will hate and some people will love EVERY SINGLE update. You can never satisfy everyone. Also, with new content comes new bugs, always. There is no way for them to totally iron out every bug. Even if people find a problem in the game, debugging is not a simple process. They will fix the issues, they know the leveling has slowed instead of sped up, they're working on it; they know the dungeon scaling is messed up, they're working on it; they know the grouping tool is messed up, they're working on it. People on these forums are irritating because they act like everything should be fixed INSTANTLY but it's just not realistic. They may fix that bug, but when that bug is fixed it creates another bug. You never know what the issues are tied to and so the process is long and draining. Programming is not a simple thing that you can just "change this" and "fix everything" it is a very complex process and it will take them time to find everything. Don't lose faith because they have bugs, this game is MASSIVE in advancement terms of the game. I don't know of a single game, anywhere in the universe, that has this sheer amount of content and players all in the same locations. The graphics are also higher grade than most others. The game is simply beefy, and when you have something that big there will always be flaws. Give them time to work out the kinks and give ZoS some credit for even putting out such a massive game that allows for so many different types of players. Other games are able to run more smooth because they limit the players to certain things, that's the greatness of ESO and ES in general, they allow you unlimited customization. A computer can only handle so much customization. For every person who wants something different, ZoS must add in a new piece of code. That piles up given that there are millions of people in the world. So STOP complaining that there are bugs... it's a new game and a very complicated new game at that.

The enter key is your friend.

Lol sorry... When I get on a rant I say f*** grammar a lot of the times...

bedlom · November 2014

You think that ESO is gonna die over update 5? Thanks for giving me a laugh.

Slurg · November 2014

This patch has a lot of problems, for sure. I had hoped by now that they'd incorporate PTS feedback about bugs instead of pushing them live to everyone.

While I'm a bit disappointed about that, I'm still having fun. I think it works out better if you adapt and are flexible and have a variety of activities you can do and different characters you can play, so when a patch introduces a problem (or multiple problems), you can just go do something else for a while til it all gets sorted out.

Heishi · November 2014

OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THING WE DIDN'T HAVE A FEW WEEKS AGO DOESN'T WORK, THIS RUINS THE WHOLE GAME FOR ME.

Seriously... gtf over it.

Group Finder borked.. hasn't worked well since launch what's new here?

Alchemy quests don't work, this clearly impact the game experience you're already used to. Oh wait this is new and wasn't a part of the game experience before... so... were you to ignore it. It would be just like before.

Vet Level taking too long to raise. You found all these links, but didn't find the one where ZOS already addressed this and said they were aware. They noted the problem was players were not being given the proper amount of XP and this "should" be resolved in their first incremental patch.

Looks to me like they are aware of the dungeon difficulty issue too.

Major content updates always introduce new bugs. Even most of the minor patches introduce new bugs. I've not seen and MMO where this doesn't happen. Not sure why it's even a surprise.

ZOS didn't kill ESO because of a hand full of new bugs. It's a gross exaggeration to whine and try to make a useless point