PvP Is now the most boring thing I have ever done in my life in a video game.

Darthryan · November 2014

Hey I called it first.....http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/138501/pvp-will-die-i-gaurantee/p1

We need fcs back. Even if people hate em then make one server have em one not allow em. Then we will see which one is more populated. I admit sometimes I hate them but as a nb I try to go sneaky sneaky and take them out. Thta was fun.
Now people say "oh learn how to read the map.to know where action is". But u get there five minutes later and no one is there! Or stand in middle of a field and gank. Boring. Everyone walks in stealth now.

No ap will mean no sieges. Which will mean no scroll runs. Which will mean 40 people in stealth at alessia bridge hoping someone will get unstealthed and action will happen for a minute. The only people happy about this, at this moment, are pvp zerg trains, but by next week they won't have anyone to play against. In thornblade it will just be venatus, DiE, and whatever Brandons group is called and maybe 10 guys hiding in stealth throughout the map.

And I'm sorry poor @Columba‌ . You must have had some poor monkeys really tramautize you as kid or you think your same oneliner still gets laugh.

Maulkin · November 2014

Darthryan wrote: »

Hey I called it first.....http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/138501/pvp-will-die-i-gaurantee/p1

We need fcs back. Even if people hate em then make one server have em one not allow em. Then we will see which one is more populated. I admit sometimes I hate them but as a nb I try to go sneaky sneaky and take them out. Thta was fun.
Now people say "oh learn how to read the map.to know where action is". But u get there five minutes later and no one is there! Or stand in middle of a field and gank. Boring. Everyone walks in stealth now.

No ap will mean no sieges. Which will mean no scroll runs. Which will mean 40 people in stealth at alessia bridge hoping someone will get unstealthed and action will happen for a minute. The only people happy about this, at this moment, are pvp zerg trains, but by next week they won't have anyone to play against. In thornblade it will just be venatus, DiE, and whatever Brandons group is called and maybe 10 guys hiding in stealth throughout the map.

And I'm sorry poor @Columba‌ . You must have had some poor monkeys really tramautize you as kid or you think your same oneliner still gets laugh.

You're contradicting yourself in the same sentence. Most people driving "zerg-trains" will tell you this is not good exactly because PvP will get stale and boring. Trust me, I'm one of them.

Sharee · November 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The people defending this decision are gonna be very very upset once the guilds finish leveling undaunted and no one is going to be brave enough to stop the train, the only thing to stop the trains are other trains, then the lag you guys don't want is back

Trains in cyrodiil will be much more spread out when they no longer all have the ability to port to any hotspot on the map almost instantly. The topology of cyrodiil will now play a strategic role. Choke points, travel time, intercepting groups etc. will now all be a factor.

There will also be stealth sieges that nobody bothers to go to. Because almost certainly, if you see a stealth siege with 20 sieges up, it's an organised large guild that will storm it before you've disengaged from whatever you're doing and travel there on time.

You seem to assume that any siege that you cannot stop in time before the keep is captured is not worth going to.

But if everyone in the alliance keeps that attitude, the alliance will find itself keep-less in no time.

No, any such 'stealth siege' will naturally become a hotspot. Maybe not instantly, not in the manner forward camps caused every siege to be instantly flooded with trains and zergs from all sides, becoming a big cluster.... of AOE and lag. But people will eventually get to the keep, and they will start sieging it to get it back, creating hotspot. And this will happen all over the map. I've got six years of DAoC history to form that opinion, and that game had no forward camps at all.

AbraXuSeXile · November 2014

Sharee wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The people defending this decision are gonna be very very upset once the guilds finish leveling undaunted and no one is going to be brave enough to stop the train, the only thing to stop the trains are other trains, then the lag you guys don't want is back

Trains in cyrodiil will be much more spread out when they no longer all have the ability to port to any hotspot on the map almost instantly. The topology of cyrodiil will now play a strategic role. Choke points, travel time, intercepting groups etc. will now all be a factor.

I respect your opinion, but you are wrong.

Everyone will end up in the same spot's, Trains want pvp not running 30 minutes and taking an unmanned keep.

Trains will also be much more stronger, I run a train 4 times per week but when we are not running a train we do small bomb squad and look to bomb trains and big groups fighting outnumbered, However now people like me can't take down trains, no one is gonna want to ride everytime the train kills them so no one is gonna engage, the only way to kill the train is either another train or pretty much at least 75% of the entire enemy faction overwhelms them with sheer numbers, which = lag.

Most the players enjoying this no forward camp thing is, Gankers and Zergers. The future of the game looks bleak, There's no insta action for new players, They won't have any fun and quit riding on there 20 speed horse and getting taken down by archers killing them before reaction times. Which means new players are not coming in and older players are quitting.

It's just not fun, Not fun at all. This game isnt designed for this.

Game is gonna die and in a few days once it all settles and people are moving away from PvP dwindling and dwindling down each and everyday the gankers that are enjoying this will be sat in the middle of the wilderness and no numbers are gonna be coming and if they are it's gonna be an entire zerg.

My campaign Azura on EU, We used to be outnumbered every night. But it was fun struggling to defend it all the time and we ended up having very nice fights, But it's impossible now without other organised guilds working together so we moved to Thorn for our official raids and do pve on other times.

Sharee · November 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Everyone will end up in the same spot's, Trains want pvp not running 30 minutes and taking an unmanned keep.

Taking an unmanned keep, especially if it is an important keep like glademist of arrius, is guaranteed to create pvp action before long. You'll see.

diskiukas · November 2014

So yesterday I was trying to adjust, stay out of harms way, in the shadows, we defended outpost went for the keep and I had like 25 kills ,no deaths,even managed to get completion of " Kill enemy players" quest(first in 3 days, usually 3-4 quests a day before that) but then EP keep defenders swarmed from the keep, I messed up with my rotation and I was dead. While I was lying there waiting to get resurrected ( thinking ,no way I am going to ride there again, what's the point, it'll be over until I come back anyways) DC breached the wall and one random soul happened to be passing by and was nice enough to rezz me ( thank you) , so I was able to get some credit for taking the keep, otherwise all that hard work and " learning to stay alive" tactics, would've been for naught. Yeah , still not fun, but I am trying.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · November 2014

People seem to forget the new bomb abilities in 1.6 that will kill trains if they stay close together......

Leovolao · November 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

People seem to forget the new bomb abilities in 1.6 that will kill trains if they stay close together......

I wonder how many people will be in Cyrodiil to test that.

Lilarna · November 2014

My two cents : the first coin is flipped to stress the total exageration of how riding is supposedly boring and very long, when in truth the distances can be covered fairly quickly and that the ride is actually meaningful since you have to be alert to not get ganked on the way. I guess a good video with a timer on would prove this fairly easily.

The second penny is spent on being in total dismay and awe at how people can find it awful that the "god mode" has been switched off from the game ! Having to raise at the closest keep makes death meaningful at last, you have to be cautious, the notion of risk is back in the game. It gives an extra thrill to every single action you undertake in my opinion.

Oh, and for the birds of bad omen about the total downfall of pvp, just wait till all the perfectionists who want their undaunted passives are back in Cyro...

CrazedDark · November 2014

Sorry you're all getting your panties in a bunch, but if you don't like it so much, leave. Personally, I highly welcome respectable ideas to better the game, but complaining that something has taken out or buffed up in more and more threads won't solve anything.

Do something useful and add to the conversation working to improve the game.

Davadin · November 2014

Since I've been burnt to a toast by you a few times in-game already and see how you play,

WRX wrote: »

They epic fights that people used to have, dont exist anymore.

RinaldoGandolphi · November 2014

Folks need to take a chill pill

I was against the removal of forward camps when i heard about it in the patch notes, but after playing for the last few days i NEVER want FC back.

This is my 1st MMO, 1st MMO PVP expereince with a game, and within a week I figured PVP out of the most part(the flow of the game)..went 60-2 last night on Thornblade...most of that duty being solo all by my lonesome...just because your alone doesn't mean a gank group will kill you...if you use your head, play smart, and only engage in fights you know you have the advantage and will win, you will be fine.Just had to adjust my tactics and playstyle of the changes.

there is plenty of action out there, i had no problem finding fights, etc.

FC were broken because they allowed mindless zergs to die over and over again and just keep respawning spamming impulse nonsense to lag the game to death. PVP essentially became a game of which team bought the most FC, and how many mindless zerglings can stack together and spam bats, Impulse, etc. Im glad that nonsense is gone.

Now I would be OK with allowing players to Rez/Teleport to a keep under attack with the following restrictions:

1. To port to keep under attack, walls must be at 90%, if they fall under 90% you can't port there anymore.

2. The amount of rezes for a keep under attack is limited to 10. Once 10 players have rezed at the keep under attack, no more rezes are allowed until the battle is over unless another player rezes you with a gem. Also, you cna not rez at a keep under attack unless you die in the area of the keep or around a resource close to the keep your alliance controls(farms, mines, etc), no dieing on 1 side of the map and rezing at keep under attack.

See Im willing to compromise here a bit, but i do not want FC back in this game, and dieing on 1 side of the map and porting in from the other. I do not want FC being continually dropped and mindless zerglings on both sides continually slamming their meatbags of a body against the walls dieing over and over again, and the Impulse/AOE lag that comes with masses of people stacked together with no fear of death due to FC...nah no way....

What i said above in those 2 points is fair, as long as the walls are at 90% or above folks can port in for keep defense, and rezes at keeps under attack is limited to 10, after that, no more rezes until the battle is over unless another player uses a Gem on you.

This will balance the action between not having mindless zergling nonsense, yet allowing opportunity to get into battles easier...

however, I would be perfectly fine if they left things as is with no FC, i was so sick and tired of the mindless zergling nonsense.....Folks know what im talking about, the guy that runs up to the keep wall within 5 meters, gets picked off and killed, rezes at the FC, come right back down and does it again, rinse and repeat...burning though FC but never putting one down themselves....I go so tired of yelling "Get away from the wall <insert game tag)!!!"

im sorry, call me elitist, but mindless zergling nonsense should not be rewarded with easy free rez like FC were.

Thechemicals · November 2014

WRX wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Actually, it's easier for small groups to wipe large numbers now, since you won't have half of them running back to you before you even wipe their group from their clutch camp 20 ft away from you. Coordinated bomb groups were usually able to do their thing without anyone dying anyways, with the heal stacking.

Now you face a greater penalty from deaths, bit that also means all the people you're wiping wont be coming back anytime soon.

Absolutely not. We have always been an AoE sustain group that does better against larger numbers. But you will lose people for whichever reason.

Before it was more than possible to wipe out entire large groups of 2-3 full raids with a group of 12-16, with a well placed camp. It may take more than one try, it may not. But now with such an insane penalty for death it is simply not worth the risk. You have to just defend the breach, then go back to the inner.

There should be a penalty for using FC. EX) 60-90 second delay from using a FC since the last time you used it. Still provides fast moving game play, and when you make a good push and wipe most of the other faction (on offense or defense) you will have plenty of time to get siege up and establish control of the courtyard. And that's all it took before anyways if you had any amount of skill.

Is your name Wrx ingame? I have a guy in my killcounter addon "top players killed" and someone named Wrx is number 1 on that list.

Davadin · November 2014

Pixysticks wrote: »

I gotta agree somewhat, I zoned into thorn last night and the only thing we owned was Alessia, which was under attack. To get to PvP I had to run all the way from the starter gate to Alessia every time I wanted a fight.

That's the idea. To cut the transport line off so it takes time for enemy's fighting force returns to battle.

I've seen this a lot last night where EP hit Bleakers to cut off DC reinforcement to a blue Chalman. Or AD blows up BRK so the 2x raids of EP in Sejanus got obliterated with no help.

Strategy good. Call of Duty deathmatch bad.

AhPook_Is_Here · November 2014

I think the removal of camps has made the game much better. I was very frustrated with the massive lag fests, the absence of any supply line strategy and the fact that suicide or finding a ganker was the fastest way to get around the map so that you could ball up with your friends and push your fire ring button till you could use bat swarm.

Now ganking actually helps your faction instead of speeding up the enemy's reinforcements. Grouping and trying to stay alive when you get to your destination is a useful strategy, instead of spawning at a camp riding in and mashing aoe till you die, then re-spawning and doing the same.

The lag is still about the same but as the stacking tactics prove to be less effective and the aoe caps are removed this will go away.

Last night I saw some huge battles, Glademist was a great long fight, Chalman before it. We even had some decent action at BRK though it it was mostly people trying to run the same old lagbomb strats.

LonePirate · November 2014

Columba wrote: »

smassareub17_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

If Brian Wheeler is seriously stoked about this change then he is not playing his own game.

Sieges have dropped to one per hour if that.

most of us agree with the changes, so no. Check the poll...or the pole, whatever is your preference.

You sweet talker, you! I wonder why all those players that "agree" aren't in PVP tonight? I can't figure out where they are? Maybe crouched in some rocks or under a bridge?? Oh....fun.

May I refer you to this poll... http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/138018/do-you-approve-of-the-forward-camps-change/p1

Lol. pwned.

This reduces the pathetic impulse monkey spamming that ruined pvp for human beings. kudos for that.

I was at BRK last night on Thorn when AD attacked it. As as the wall came down, guess what happened. An impulse spamming monkey zerg laid waste to many of the EP forces not inside the inner walls. Guess what happened when EP's reinforcements arrived. An impulse spamming monkey zerg mowed down the invaders. Shortly after AD starting sieging, skills, stat bars, doors, etc. all were greeted with a good 3-5 second lag.

The removal of camps has done nothing to remedy either the zergs or lag.

Sallington · November 2014

WRX wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

And having to ride a horse everywhere is simply boring. Video games are supposed to be fun and exciting. Removing camps has completely removed the fast pace play that made cyrodiil fun.

now you know what people who face your impulse monkey spamming experience.

You seem like an upset person who got rolled too many times by an organized group that synergized their skill together well.

I don't know why skill was pluralized, but I fixed it for you.

And it seems like the only reason they removed FCs is because they have NO IDEA how to fix the lag spikes in Cyrodil during huge battles.

Vizier · November 2014

Pixysticks wrote: »

I gotta agree somewhat, I zoned into thorn last night and the only thing we owned was Alessia, which was under attack. To get to PvP I had to run all the way from the starter gate to Alessia every time I wanted a fight.

There's some situations where removing the forward camps has made it more fun, but things like this just make me leave Cyrodiil due to how boring it is to run 5 minutes just to get to PvP every single life.

There needs to be some sort of compromise.

There is an old saying. Comes from the earliest years on play grounds, football fields and basketball courts..."loser walks."

What compromise are you speaking of? You mean one that lets you WTH blood port anywhere on the map? You never had to run between keeps before? Not even to Lemming into a resource to blood port?...come on.

OMG. You had to run for 5 minutes to get to PvP? The horror. I mean I thought ESO was a First Person Shooter. Isn't it?

5 minutes is nothing when you consider the game dynamic. I've waited much longer in FPS lobby waiting for players to show up. At least now you might have a battle just about anywhere. When your side is doing well you'll fast travel to the front. So sometimes the other alliance players will hoof it to the front.

Ever hear of a Soul Crystal? Your team mates don't carry them? I rezzed a ton of people last night on Thorn and was rezzed several times which kept me from having to rework or re-fight my way through hostile terrain, which I also had to do many times last night. For me, the situation is Way more fun and random. Not so much FPS/Tower Defense mode.

It's an OPEN WORLD pvp zone. It has terrain which should actually be relevant to the strategy and tactics used. AND..now they are. Death means something. The game is WAY better IMO without the instant gratification Blood Porting and Mega Impulse Spam Zerg Porting.

Psilent · November 2014

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

People seem to forget the new bomb abilities in 1.6 that will kill trains if they stay close together......

Then we'll see a post titled "The Elder Bombs Online" because everyone will using this ability and everyone will want it nerfed.

diskiukas · November 2014

I wanna play this game for very long time and I want it to succeed. I am not looking to move to another cartoony next big thing as soon it's going to be released, as I suspect hardcore MMO players would do. We can disagree on FC issue, however population difference is there for all to see. Specially on smaller servers like Haderus. I do not buy this PVE new patch thing, I did not feel that much difference after previous patch, which was arguably was more interesting for people who like challenge. That concerns me.

Leovolao · November 2014

Sallington wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

And having to ride a horse everywhere is simply boring. Video games are supposed to be fun and exciting. Removing camps has completely removed the fast pace play that made cyrodiil fun.

now you know what people who face your impulse monkey spamming experience.

You seem like an upset person who got rolled too many times by an organized group that synergized their skill together well.

I don't know why skill was pluralized, but I fixed it for you.

And it seems like the only reason they removed FCs is because they have NO IDEA how to fix the lag spikes in Cyrodil during huge battles.

LOL, you really think there's only 1 skill being used in this type of groups?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

Leovolao wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

And having to ride a horse everywhere is simply boring. Video games are supposed to be fun and exciting. Removing camps has completely removed the fast pace play that made cyrodiil fun.

now you know what people who face your impulse monkey spamming experience.

You seem like an upset person who got rolled too many times by an organized group that synergized their skill together well.

I don't know why skill was pluralized, but I fixed it for you.

And it seems like the only reason they removed FCs is because they have NO IDEA how to fix the lag spikes in Cyrodil during huge battles.

LOL, you really think there's only 1 skill being used in this type of groups?

Those trains of people spamming Blood Altar is destroying the balance of Cyrodiil.

Wreuntzylla · November 2014

woodsro wrote: »

Folks need to take a chill pill

I was against the removal of forward camps when i heard about it in the patch notes, but after playing for the last few days i NEVER want FC back.

This is my 1st MMO, 1st MMO PVP expereince with a game, and within a week I figured PVP out of the most part(the flow of the game)..went 60-2 last night on Thornblade...most of that duty being solo all by my lonesome...just because your alone doesn't mean a gank group will kill you...if you use your head, play smart, and only engage in fights you know you have the advantage and will win, you will be fine.Just had to adjust my tactics and playstyle of the changes.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of the 60 that lost. Yes, this is great fun for some people. Because winning is fun. And losing is not. I personally don't know any player that will tell you, "I die, and barely ever kill or heal anyone, but I'm having fun!"

As it turns out, although winning is important to most people, winning is not necessarily the keystone to happiness (and cannot, in any case, be provided to everyone). However, most people will enjoy PvP if they think they had a chance, even if they never did. If they never had a chance, and they KNOW they never had a chance, they quit. The biggest factor to the "knowing" is ttl - if a fight lasts a couple minutes, and a person can make a couple of mistakes without imploding, most people feel as if they had a chance and made a contribution. That's not this game. Now mqke those same people travel much longer distances alone or in smaller groups...

They should have just made a minimum range from siegeable points at which camps could be dropped. Just push the supply line out moderately without making it keep-to-keep.

Joy_Division · November 2014

Vizier wrote: »

Pixysticks wrote: »

I gotta agree somewhat, I zoned into thorn last night and the only thing we owned was Alessia, which was under attack. To get to PvP I had to run all the way from the starter gate to Alessia every time I wanted a fight.

There's some situations where removing the forward camps has made it more fun, but things like this just make me leave Cyrodiil due to how boring it is to run 5 minutes just to get to PvP every single life.

There needs to be some sort of compromise.

There is an old saying. Comes from the earliest years on play grounds, football fields and basketball courts..."loser walks."

What compromise are you speaking of? You mean one that lets you WTH blood port anywhere on the map? You never had to run between keeps before? Not even to Lemming into a resource to blood port?...come on.

OMG. You had to run for 5 minutes to get to PvP? The horror. I mean I thought ESO was a First Person Shooter. Isn't it?

5 minutes is nothing when you consider the game dynamic. I've waited much longer in FPS lobby waiting for players to show up. At least now you might have a battle just about anywhere. When your side is doing well you'll fast travel to the front. So sometimes the other alliance players will hoof it to the front.

Ever hear of a Soul Crystal? Your team mates don't carry them? I rezzed a ton of people last night on Thorn and was rezzed several times which kept me from having to rework or re-fight my way through hostile terrain, which I also had to do many times last night. For me, the situation is Way more fun and random. Not so much FPS/Tower Defense mode.

It's an OPEN WORLD pvp zone. It has terrain which should actually be relevant to the strategy and tactics used. AND..now they are. Death means something. The game is WAY better IMO without the instant gratification Blood Porting and Mega Impulse Spam Zerg Porting.

So your opinion is The Truth and the other player's is just trash to be ridiculed?

Columba · November 2014

Nothing worse than lazy pvprs.

Sallington · November 2014

Leovolao wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

And having to ride a horse everywhere is simply boring. Video games are supposed to be fun and exciting. Removing camps has completely removed the fast pace play that made cyrodiil fun.

now you know what people who face your impulse monkey spamming experience.

You seem like an upset person who got rolled too many times by an organized group that synergized their skill together well.

I don't know why skill was pluralized, but I fixed it for you.

And it seems like the only reason they removed FCs is because they have NO IDEA how to fix the lag spikes in Cyrodil during huge battles.

LOL, you really think there's only 1 skill being used in this type of groups?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

2 if you count Bat Swarm. Plenty of 5/5 fire ring death recaps.

Leovolao · November 2014

Sallington wrote: »

Leovolao wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

And having to ride a horse everywhere is simply boring. Video games are supposed to be fun and exciting. Removing camps has completely removed the fast pace play that made cyrodiil fun.

now you know what people who face your impulse monkey spamming experience.

You seem like an upset person who got rolled too many times by an organized group that synergized their skill together well.

I don't know why skill was pluralized, but I fixed it for you.

And it seems like the only reason they removed FCs is because they have NO IDEA how to fix the lag spikes in Cyrodil during huge battles.

LOL, you really think there's only 1 skill being used in this type of groups?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

2 if you count Bat Swarm. Plenty of 5/5 fire ring death recaps.

LOL

Gumpnstein · November 2014

Sharee wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The people defending this decision are gonna be very very upset once the guilds finish leveling undaunted and no one is going to be brave enough to stop the train, the only thing to stop the trains are other trains, then the lag you guys don't want is back

Trains in cyrodiil will be much more spread out when they no longer all have the ability to port to any hotspot on the map almost instantly. The topology of cyrodiil will now play a strategic role. Choke points, travel time, intercepting groups etc. will now all be a factor.

CrazedDark wrote: »

Sorry you're all getting your panties in a bunch, but if you don't like it so much, leave. Personally, I highly welcome respectable ideas to better the game, but complaining that something has taken out or buffed up in more and more threads won't solve anything. Do something useful and add to the conversation working to improve the game.

We have all already left, got look at the server throughout the day periodically, assuming you play enough to know what the normal server population is. And this thread and conversation is the ONLY thing in this game I care about right now and obviously is for others.

k2blader · November 2014

I think it has gotten more boring too. The pace of action is much slower. You now need numbers more than ever to accomplish the main objective of the war which is to take keeps. Otherwise, people just sit at keeps waiting to defend them from possible attackers, spend a lot of time riding/sneaking and avoiding gankers to try to get back to their group, or stare for while at their maps waiting for signs of action and deciding if it's worth the run.

Also I'm sure many people who post were at that ridiculously stupid lagged out take of Brindle by DC on Thornblade NA. Same atrocious lag, same AOE spam, same "bigger zerg spamming stuff wins" gameplay. So anytime someone posts those kinds of things have been fixed or are better, it's just laughable.

Like it or not, anyone with some sense of logic can see the zone is slower than pre patch. That translates into more boring for most normal folks. And it is pretty much all thanks to removal of FCs. For the naysayers, note that those in favor of FCs know the FC mechanic needed to be adjusted, but removing them completely is making Cyrodiil more a chore than a fun time.

Redfer · November 2014

Let's have a look at the population since the update which speaks for itself, currently on thornblade the pop is 1 bar across the board, as opposed to the usual 3 bars or barely pop locked I used to see at this time of day. That pretty much speaks for itself.

And as far as people getting their undaunted passives, the ones I talk to all say they're RUSHING to get them is because pvp is so boring now, otherwise they would just do their dailies and maybe a trial then pvp instead of avoiding cyrodil all together as they are.