PvP Is now the most boring thing I have ever done in my life in a video game.

Xsorus · November 2014

Tintinabula wrote: »

people never had unlimited rezzes .As an EP player getting steady FCs dropped was always a task..now..eventually when there are no more FCs(except for those guilds who have 1000s of camps) itll be whoever has the most at the end wins

If you didn't have unlimited rezzes then you shouldn't be complaining now should you, just play like before the patch when you totally had to worry about dying and didn't have unlimited rezzes to fall back on lol

smassareub17_ESO · November 2014

Columba wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

If Brian Wheeler is seriously stoked about this change then he is not playing his own game.

Sieges have dropped to one per hour if that.

most of us agree with the changes, so no. Check the poll...or the pole, whatever is your preference.

You sweet talker, you! I wonder why all those players that "agree" aren't in PVP tonight? I can't figure out where they are? Maybe crouched in some rocks or under a bridge?? Oh....fun.

Ezareth · November 2014

I don't think everyone is understanding the cascading effect this is having on the game.

The scrubs, newbies and just overall bad players were using up the majority of the camps. Since all they do is die constantly and will have to keep running back (and usually ganked on the way) they'll tire of Cyrodiil first and quit.

Then the "Farm" groups who are used to farming those bads will get tired of cyrodiil because the easy action of slaughtering the plebs of Cyrodiil will get tired and quit Cyrodiil.

Last will be the gankers....less people...more time between each gank and Cyrodiil becomes a ghost town.

I can understand and agree with people who say the removal of FCs make Cyrodiil more strategic and all that. Chess is very strategic as well and despite being good at it I find it to be boring due to the slow pace of the game.

As WRX said, Cyrodiil should be fun. If you're going drastically slow the pace of the action in the game in one way then you must do something to speed it up in another way.

The last time I checked DAOC is a dead game....so why would anyone want to emulate it?

Rylana · November 2014

Uhhh if this is the frontiers map youre talking about, I seriously see zero resemblance.

I mean, its still sort of a triangle made of tetris T-pieces, which would be needed for 3 way rvrvr, but.... it pretty much stops at that.

Enlighten me because ive never played DAoC, but I see absolutely nothing in this picture remotely resembling Cyrodiil.

Zintair · November 2014

Truthfully I was happy to see changes to camps but I think removing them was over the top. There are MANY different ways where you can alter them to solve the problem and keep them useful and the fights epic. They have all been explained before.

The biggest issue is you can literally die in 1 second in this game. The TTK is so fast that it makes no sense to make this drastic change. We didn't want Forward Camps removed completely we wanted them altered so that blood porting doesn't happen from NPCs etc.

Put a timer on them, Make them super expensive.

Lot of riding now. Lots of riding. PvDoor is the key to success now. Might as well give AD the campaign wins (wink) (wink)

smassareub17_ESO · November 2014

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I don't think everyone is understanding the cascading effect this is having on the game.

The scrubs, newbies and just overall bad players were using up the majority of the camps. Since all they do is die constantly and will have to keep running back (and usually ganked on the way) they'll tire of Cyrodiil first and quit.

Then the "Farm" groups who are used to farming those bads will get tired of cyrodiil because the easy action of slaughtering the plebs of Cyrodiil will get tired and quit Cyrodiil.

Last will be the gankers....less people...more time between each gank and Cyrodiil becomes a ghost town.

I can understand and agree with people who say the removal of FCs make Cyrodiil more strategic and all that. Chess is very strategic as well and despite being good at it I find it to be boring due to the slow pace of the game.

As WRX said, Cyrodiil should be fun. If you're going drastically slow the pace of the action in the game in one way then you must do something to speed it up in another way.

The last time I checked DAOC is a dead game....so why would anyone want to emulate it?

Exactly!!! Well put. Some really good experienced players have voiced concerns.
IF the change to PVP by removing the FCs is a good one then players would be there, yes? But they are not...at least not yet. This change will really discourage low level Vet players that don't have the skills to play PVP well yet. Instead of being pulled along with the excitement of the battles they will get ganked and sniped and get totally tired of riding across the landscape. Things will get very boring in a hurry.

Pixysticks · November 2014

Psilent wrote: »

Pixysticks wrote: »

I gotta agree somewhat, I zoned into thorn last night and the only thing we owned was Alessia, which was under attack. To get to PvP I had to run all the way from the starter gate to Alessia every time I wanted a fight.

There's some situations where removing the forward camps has made it more fun, but things like this just make me leave Cyrodiil due to how boring it is to run 5 minutes just to get to PvP every single life.

There needs to be some sort of compromise.

FC removal doesn't cater to your play style at all. What you need Pixy is a pocket rezzer!

In other news, no camps has killed pvp on Haderus. Having no Keeps to Rez at is frustrating. This change really helped keep the buff servers from becoming competitive.

Yeah, because 99% of my play-time on Haderus is spent solo, so it's just me vs. a bunch of EP and all the guards at KC LM. I can't bring a group to Haderus because there's not enough EP there to actually fight with an organized group.

So it's been in this perpetual state of EP not having enough people to really take anything other than a resource or warrant bringing a group to fight. Now the FC change has pretty much extinct any chance of them being able to accomplish even holding a resource for very long.

Now the situation on Thorn is: you're either a ganker, or you have an organized group. Which is fine for me, but everyone just has to understand that there's going to be a record-low amount of people PvPing for the time being.

Scamandros · November 2014

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I don't think everyone is understanding the cascading effect this is having on the game.

The scrubs, newbies and just overall bad players were using up the majority of the camps. Since all they do is die constantly and will have to keep running back (and usually ganked on the way) they'll tire of Cyrodiil first and quit.

Then the "Farm" groups who are used to farming those bads will get tired of cyrodiil because the easy action of slaughtering the plebs of Cyrodiil will get tired and quit Cyrodiil.

Last will be the gankers....less people...more time between each gank and Cyrodiil becomes a ghost town.

I can understand and agree with people who say the removal of FCs make Cyrodiil more strategic and all that. Chess is very strategic as well and despite being good at it I find it to be boring due to the slow pace of the game.

As WRX said, Cyrodiil should be fun. If you're going drastically slow the pace of the action in the game in one way then you must do something to speed it up in another way.

The last time I checked DAOC is a dead game....so why would anyone want to emulate it?

The game catered to alot of different playstyles whether you were a ganker, just wanted some quick immediate action or wanted to play the map seriously. It now appeals to a smaller population. The game is bad enough with a pvp pop to fill just one server and its just going to get worse, even if it is currently better for a strategists gameplay.

IMO I liked the idea of a camp respawn cooldown. Shouldn't be as difficult to implement, track it like the pve self rez passive. Once you spawn at a camp you have X amount of time until you can use a camp again, but spawning at keeps is okay. If you play strategically and not zerging into enemies you should be able to fight long enough to almost outlast the debuff, but those who die repeatedly must either walk or wait. A compromise between the old system and the current one

smassareub17_ESO · November 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Uhhh if this is the frontiers map youre talking about, I seriously see zero resemblance.

I mean, its still sort of a triangle made of tetris T-pieces, which would be needed for 3 way rvrvr, but.... it pretty much stops at that.

Enlighten me because ive never played DAoC, but I see absolutely nothing in this picture remotely resembling Cyrodiil.

Man...that is EXACTLY like Cyrodiil!! What great detail too.

smassareub17_ESO · November 2014

Pixysticks wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Pixysticks wrote: »

I gotta agree somewhat, I zoned into thorn last night and the only thing we owned was Alessia, which was under attack. To get to PvP I had to run all the way from the starter gate to Alessia every time I wanted a fight.

There's some situations where removing the forward camps has made it more fun, but things like this just make me leave Cyrodiil due to how boring it is to run 5 minutes just to get to PvP every single life.

There needs to be some sort of compromise.

FC removal doesn't cater to your play style at all. What you need Pixy is a pocket rezzer!

In other news, no camps has killed pvp on Haderus. Having no Keeps to Rez at is frustrating. This change really helped keep the buff servers from becoming competitive.

Yeah, because 99% of my play-time on Haderus is spent solo, so it's just me vs. a bunch of EP and all the guards at KC LM. I can't bring a group to Haderus because there's not enough EP there to actually fight with an organized group.

So it's been in this perpetual state of EP not having enough people to really take anything other than a resource or warrant bringing a group to fight. Now the FC change has pretty much extinct any chance of them being able to accomplish even holding a resource for very long.

Now the situation on Thorn is: you're either a ganker, or you have an organized group. Which is fine for me, but everyone just has to understand that there's going to be a record-low amount of people PvPing for the time being.

I have fond memories of you destroying my group in Haderus and us coming back for more.....good times those.....*sigh*

Xsorus · November 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Uhhh if this is the frontiers map youre talking about, I seriously see zero resemblance.

I mean, its still sort of a triangle made of tetris T-pieces, which would be needed for 3 way rvrvr, but.... it pretty much stops at that.

Enlighten me because ive never played DAoC, but I see absolutely nothing in this picture remotely resembling Cyrodiil.

Let's see, we have a port system similar to daocs, controlled by 3 towers just like every keep in this game, along with mile gates (though new frontiers sort of removed these and just had the relic gates), we have the exact same amount of keeps. And instead of argramom being in the middle we have imperial city. Hell the relic gates in this game are virtual copies of daocs new frontier ones. You'd of course know this if you had played daoc.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · November 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Uhhh if this is the frontiers map youre talking about, I seriously see zero resemblance.

I mean, its still sort of a triangle made of tetris T-pieces, which would be needed for 3 way rvrvr, but.... it pretty much stops at that.

Enlighten me because ive never played DAoC, but I see absolutely nothing in this picture remotely resembling Cyrodiil.

Ok first of all notice that in the far corners of each realm there are walled in areas. These are exactly like the areas in cyrodiil that opens to the scroll temples and open the same way.

Each keep has towers around them and when the towers are taken you can no longer port to them. Also the keeps are in a grid so that if you lose a keep behind you, you lose the link enabling you to port to it.

There are relics in the game that does exactly the same as the scrolls in ESO and you place them in your own keeps to get the bonus.

The number of keeps you control give you bonuses.

The realm that controls the most area get the biggest pvp dungeon in the game open to them but they need to clean out enemies inside it to safely pve in there, exactly like Imperial city here.

The bridges in Cyrodiil is an exact copy of the design of the bridges in daoc.

Last the team that designed the new frontier in daoc are the same people that made the original core of the ESO dev team.

Ackwalan · November 2014

This is not a 'king of the hill' pvp game with just one hill.

Columba · November 2014

smassareub17_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

If Brian Wheeler is seriously stoked about this change then he is not playing his own game.

Sieges have dropped to one per hour if that.

most of us agree with the changes, so no. Check the poll...or the pole, whatever is your preference.

You sweet talker, you! I wonder why all those players that "agree" aren't in PVP tonight? I can't figure out where they are? Maybe crouched in some rocks or under a bridge?? Oh....fun.

May I refer you to this poll... http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/138018/do-you-approve-of-the-forward-camps-change/p1

Lol. pwned.

This reduces the pathetic impulse monkey spamming that ruined pvp for human beings. kudos for that.

Sharee · November 2014

I like the new system. Sure, if i die i might have to ride back. But on the other hand, every kill i do feels meaningful, now that the same enemy won't be back even before my magicka/stamina i used for the kill has a chance to regen.

Pixysticks wrote: »

I gotta agree somewhat, I zoned into thorn last night and the only thing we owned was Alessia, which was under attack. To get to PvP I had to run all the way from the starter gate to Alessia every time I wanted a fight.

Why didn't you attack bloodmayne or black boot instead?

Columba · November 2014

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

I don't think everyone is understanding the cascading effect this is having on the game.

The scrubs, newbies and just overall bad players were using up the majority of the camps. Since all they do is die constantly and will have to keep running back (and usually ganked on the way) they'll tire of Cyrodiil first and quit.

Then the "Farm" groups who are used to farming those bads will get tired of cyrodiil because the easy action of slaughtering the plebs of Cyrodiil will get tired and quit Cyrodiil.

Last will be the gankers....less people...more time between each gank and Cyrodiil becomes a ghost town.

I can understand and agree with people who say the removal of FCs make Cyrodiil more strategic and all that. Chess is very strategic as well and despite being good at it I find it to be boring due to the slow pace of the game.

As WRX said, Cyrodiil should be fun. If you're going drastically slow the pace of the action in the game in one way then you must do something to speed it up in another way.

The last time I checked DAOC is a dead game....so why would anyone want to emulate it?

Lol just lol. It's a dead game because it's unsupported and is over 13 years old. Graphics are late 1990s. figure it out.

Psilent · November 2014

Pixysticks wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Pixysticks wrote: »

I gotta agree somewhat, I zoned into thorn last night and the only thing we owned was Alessia, which was under attack. To get to PvP I had to run all the way from the starter gate to Alessia every time I wanted a fight.

There's some situations where removing the forward camps has made it more fun, but things like this just make me leave Cyrodiil due to how boring it is to run 5 minutes just to get to PvP every single life.

There needs to be some sort of compromise.

FC removal doesn't cater to your play style at all. What you need Pixy is a pocket rezzer!

In other news, no camps has killed pvp on Haderus. Having no Keeps to Rez at is frustrating. This change really helped keep the buff servers from becoming competitive.

Yeah, because 99% of my play-time on Haderus is spent solo, so it's just me vs. a bunch of EP and all the guards at KC LM. I can't bring a group to Haderus because there's not enough EP there to actually fight with an organized group.

So it's been in this perpetual state of EP not having enough people to really take anything other than a resource or warrant bringing a group to fight. Now the FC change has pretty much extinct any chance of them being able to accomplish even holding a resource for very long.

Now the situation on Thorn is: you're either a ganker, or you have an organized group. Which is fine for me, but everyone just has to understand that there's going to be a record-low amount of people PvPing for the time being.

Miss you Pixy!

Queen of Vamps was the only one that came out to play while I was online last night. The EP group is debating on heading to Thorn, guested over there the last two days to see everything. Looks like a new DC group hopped over last night, so maybe you'll be fighting blues!

AbraXuSeXile · November 2014

The people defending this decision are gonna be very very upset once the guilds finish leveling undaunted and no one is going to be brave enough to stop the train, the only thing to stop the trains are other trains, then the lag you guys don't want is back

Sanct16 · November 2014

It will be even worse than before...
It the end it were people like "us" who eventually stopped the zergballs when there was no friendly zergball around.
Ofc often it took several attemps. Now noone will attack the zerg with serious damage ( pls dont start with single target focus, without focused Ultimate and somr serious dps you wont hurt a raid = Negate, Banner, Nova and Batswarm abd 4 player dealing 3k dps actually hurt, a snipe doesnt do much to a group ).

I will probably going to just sit in the inner keep and scatterahot to flag every attacker. Sooooooo much FUN.

Maulkin · November 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The people defending this decision are gonna be very very upset once the guilds finish leveling undaunted and no one is going to be brave enough to stop the train, the only thing to stop the trains are other trains, then the lag you guys don't want is back

Every person that is in an AoE train tells them trains will be much stronger. Every person that used to dive into trains, also tells them that trains will be a lot stronger.

Every person who played solo and sat in the rear and PewPew'd somehow feels the other two are wrong. This 3rd guy is in for a biiig surprise in a couple of weeks time.

Juraigr · November 2014

Dead game

Sharee · November 2014

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The people defending this decision are gonna be very very upset once the guilds finish leveling undaunted and no one is going to be brave enough to stop the train, the only thing to stop the trains are other trains, then the lag you guys don't want is back

Trains in cyrodiil will be much more spread out when they no longer all have the ability to port to any hotspot on the map almost instantly. The topology of cyrodiil will now play a strategic role. Choke points, travel time, intercepting groups etc. will now all be a factor.

Nijjion · November 2014

Be thankful you have mounts... back in the day in DAoC all we had was a few speed skills! (Edit - and only a few classes had those)

And this is considered #1 or #2 on most peoples/websites best MMO PvP games of all time.

@Rylana Just got sat... lol.

Baphomet · November 2014

PvP after patch 1.5 is the straw that broke the camel's back for me, and I've stayed true to this game since the very first beta tests in early 2013.

Sorry @ZoS, another one bites the dust - it was a good ride for most parts.

Lord_Draevan · November 2014

I think ZOS removed FCs to implement the change they discussed a few weeks ago, where you could only spawn at an FC if you died in its radius. I find it hard to believe they just removed them forever out of nowhere.

But the change for now has its pros and cons. A lot less zerging, it's easier for smaller groups to wipe large ones, gankers can now change the course of a siege by hitting reinforcement routes, blood porting is gone (I hated it, leaving a keep vulnerable by removing a buff, giving the enemy a nice AP farming spot and place to set up an FC for a future siege).
But obviously, more riding/walking/sneaking to do. This doesn't bother me so much since it takes about 2 minutes to ride to the frontline and gankers are easily avoided by simply not riding on the shortest route (take detours, people, go off the beaten path), but I can see how people don't like it. Matter of personal preference.

MortanGuerriero · November 2014

smassareub17_ESO wrote: »

You sweet talker, you! I wonder why all those players that "agree" aren't in PVP tonight? I can't figure out where they are? Maybe crouched in some rocks or under a bridge?? Oh....fun.

This !!!

Thudunblundur · November 2014

Wait a week. Any big change like this takes time to settle in and for us to adjust to it. It's noticeable that a lot of the big beasts haven't been around - we're guessing they are off getting Undaunted passives and will be back when that is done. Until that happens we don't really know what it will be like.

Grim13 · November 2014

idk

all I know is I've gone from pvping 15-20 hours, m-f nights, to maybe 3-4 hours...

Oughash · November 2014

Some general thoughts:
1. The removal of camps was too hasty. I would have preferred a bit more communication prior to the decision. The removal could easily have been accomplished without people hoarding them even if advance notice was given.

2. We still need to wait and see how things will shake up in Cyrodil. It has been 3 days.

3. I agree with most of the premise of FC removal. Per number (2) I think the jury is still out on whether removal was good for the game.

4. ZOS needs to communicate their plans for cyrodil sans FC gameplay. Many excellent suggestions have arisen: faster move speed on roads, respawns at resources, respawns at keeps based on num of resources held, respawns at interim locations like mile gates and bridges, extra strategic locations that can act as a respawner, increase the cost of FCs but add them back, make respawn allowable only in FC radius, more hp on keep walls, etc.

5. The pvp player base would really like to hear from ZOS what their "vision" of cyrodil gameplay is. This would help the players provide more pertinent feedback. We also would like the ability to shape what this vision is.

6. A vocal group of players asked for FC removal in the previous months. ZOS removed FCs. To those players: please objectively analyze FC removal over the next few weeks.

See y'all on the battlefield.

Maulkin · November 2014

Sharee wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

The people defending this decision are gonna be very very upset once the guilds finish leveling undaunted and no one is going to be brave enough to stop the train, the only thing to stop the trains are other trains, then the lag you guys don't want is back

Trains in cyrodiil will be much more spread out when they no longer all have the ability to port to any hotspot on the map almost instantly. The topology of cyrodiil will now play a strategic role. Choke points, travel time, intercepting groups etc. will now all be a factor.

There won't be many hotspots to travel to. There will only be fights going back and forth between polarised keeps (red/blue, red/yellow, blue/yellow)

There will also be stealth sieges that nobody bothers to go to. Because almost certainly, if you see a stealth siege with 20 sieges up, it's an organised large guild that will storm it before you've disengaged from whatever you're doing and travel there on time. And if you do get there first you'll either have to wait till at least another 10-20 arrive or jump in and die having wasted 5 minutes riding.

In the linear path to the nearest enemy keep, AoE trains will reign supreme. Their efficiency increased by new passives and their ranks bolstered by those who got bored getting ganked trying to play solo.