Vet Dungeon Scaling makes the speed achievements impossible to obtain

PBpsy · November 2014

I agree there is something wrong with Imiril,The jumping around is much to fast too keep up with the orbs and apparently the damage on the tank can be crazy. It is not that it is to difficult but from what I have seen this fight was much harder than what I have seen in my COH and COA runs which are standard VR12 and V14 dungeons. It is just like after 1.1.2 when we could solo Crag Delves but have problems with some VR9 zone quest...

...and apparently they nerfed Mantikora...

Makes sense.

TehMagnus · November 2014

Draxys wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

AnubisRe wrote: »

I did also a run for the undaunted gold key with my usual dungeon group yesterday and we did all vet dungeons achievments together so far.

I tanked Imiril so she didn't go rampant on the dps of our group. I wasn't able to block any damage from her. All her hits went right through my block and cost one quarter of my 3.2k hp which put a real strain on our templar healer and the Hist Bark Set Bonus didn't proc even once.

From that experience i would say this boss is bugged and needs fixing. I love difficult fights and challenges but this is a bit ridiculous

My group had a similar issue. I tanked and was taking almost 40% hp (I have around 34-3500) with every hit. And that's with all armor/shield bonuses and the footman set. With razor armor up and armor hard capped, I still took 25-ish % per hit. The healer could barely keep up with the damage output and he is a really good healer.

I do have to agree with this, I tanked BC with my DK yesterday, I had to pop Green Dragon Blood quite a few times to help healer because it seemed like the hits went through the shield. No sound of bump on the shield.

I noticed the sound issue with blocking hits as well, no audio cue that I had just blocked an attack. Come to think of it, my combat add on displays blocked attacks in parentheses... I don't think those hits were in parentheses... Testing is needed.

Yup, don't forget to /bug so it's fixed in next week's patch.

TRIP233 · November 2014

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

With the new scaling of Veteran dungeons, all the bosses have 2-3x more HP at VR14. This dramatically increases the amount of time it takes to beat each boss. Some fights last as long as 10 minutes with decent DPS and no deaths. This is for a single boss. Vet dungeons have 4+ bosses.

It's actually impossible to complete these within 20 minutes anymore.

No.. just no... With Dungeon Scaling the speed runs are much much faster. Get a vet 1 in the group of vet 14s, then pass the lead to the vet 1, THEN enter the dungeon. The dungeon will scale to the group leader i.e. the vet 1. The dungeon will be much easier.

Rosveen · November 2014

TRIP233 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

With the new scaling of Veteran dungeons, all the bosses have 2-3x more HP at VR14. This dramatically increases the amount of time it takes to beat each boss. Some fights last as long as 10 minutes with decent DPS and no deaths. This is for a single boss. Vet dungeons have 4+ bosses.

It's actually impossible to complete these within 20 minutes anymore.

No.. just no... With Dungeon Scaling the speed runs are much much faster. Get a vet 1 in the group of vet 14s, then pass the lead to the vet 1, THEN enter the dungeon. The dungeon will scale to the group leader i.e. the vet 1. The dungeon will be much easier.

Except when you want to do it without gaming the system. Don't misunderstand, I don't see it as cheating or anything, it's fine - but achievements should be possible to get with a group of efficient players on the same level, without this kind of cheap workaround.

Frenkthevile · November 2014

BC 2° boss is impossible to kill at VR12!

*where impossible stands for''OMG i wiped 20 times in 4 hours without making it!''

TehMagnus · November 2014

Frenkthevile wrote: »

BC 2° boss is impossible to kill at VR12!

*where impossible stands for''OMG i wiped 20 times in 4 hours without making it!''

You just need Dipies

Black_Wolf88 · November 2014

After the patch I too have noticed a problem with blocking. the boss attacks dont hit the block but goes trough it and takes hp only, no stamina, no block at all. and its not just in BC. I wonder if its the new standard in all dungeons...

as for Imiril, I too think he jumps into his mob spawning bubbles too fast. However, its been quite a while since I did BC so I cant really compare to how he was before patch as I cant recall.

killedbyping · November 2014

Black_Wolf88 wrote: »

After the patch I too have noticed a problem with blocking. the boss attacks dont hit the block but goes trough it and takes hp only, no stamina, no block at all. and its not just in BC. I wonder if its the new standard in all dungeons...

as for Imiril, I too think he jumps into his mob spawning bubbles too fast. However, its been quite a while since I did BC so I cant really compare to how he was before patch as I cant recall.

That is wierd. I were tanking the boss alot with my 7/7 Light Armor DPS, bcos he attack random target after get out of discoball.
I didnt noticed any increase in dmg. I was blocking fine even his AOE attacks.

s7732425ub17_ESO · November 2014

Did a NON-vet dungeon yesterday (Direfrost Keep) for the Undaunted Pledge. Each boss had 120k HP, and we had to kill 5 of them. There were also lots of trash groups with 5-10k HP each mob. It took us roughly 40 minutes with above average DPS and no deaths.

For comparison, Vet dungeon bosses before the patch had 50-75k HP and trash mobs 3-6k HP.

Drazhar14 · November 2014

Just find a lower level player willing to start the party for you and create the instance at his level, then switch to a new group leader and replace the lower level player. It's still possible to run dungeons at their original levels, just a lot more frustrating to do so now. ZOS should have just made scaling optional. Their design choices post launch have been really bad. I fear for this game's future.

AnubisRe · November 2014

Did another run on Vet BC yesterday. I can confirm that no damage is blocked if Imiril hits you while blocking. All damage goes right through whether it is blocked or not. Already reported it via /bug ingame.

khele23eb17_ESO · November 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

With the new scaling of Veteran dungeons, all the bosses have 2-3x more HP at VR14. This dramatically increases the amount of time it takes to beat each boss. Some fights last as long as 10 minutes with decent DPS and no deaths. This is for a single boss. Vet dungeons have 4+ bosses.

It's actually impossible to complete these within 20 minutes anymore.

It's not harder than when you where the same level that the dungeon was so I'd say it's as intended. If you got fights lasting 10m then it's not decent DPS.

So, were back to staff and robe or gtfo?

TehMagnus · November 2014

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

With the new scaling of Veteran dungeons, all the bosses have 2-3x more HP at VR14. This dramatically increases the amount of time it takes to beat each boss. Some fights last as long as 10 minutes with decent DPS and no deaths. This is for a single boss. Vet dungeons have 4+ bosses.

It's actually impossible to complete these within 20 minutes anymore.

It's not harder than when you where the same level that the dungeon was so I'd say it's as intended. If you got fights lasting 10m then it's not decent DPS.

So, were back to staff and robe or gtfo?

Nah, the Hibrid stamina builds are also totally viable.

It's just an affirmation of the rule "Play as you want but don't expect your [snip] builds with no logic what so ever and ridiculous choice of skills to work everywhere"

It's Veteran content. If you can steamroll it without understanding how your character works and with the build you picked because it looked nice then there's really no reason to play such an easy game.

Merlin13KAGL · November 2014

For all the recommendations about starting with a lower leader and swapping out to get the achieve: While it may be a workaround, for now, it's not something you should have to do.

If you have to workaround a mechanic (and obviously, we're not talking a one-time thing here), the mechanic is broken.

The achieves should continue to be achieves - they should be earned. They should neither be facerolled, nor impossible, and so far as I can tell from the general concensus, those are the only two options 1.5 has offered.

Add the bug factor, and the fact that they made all bosses harder before scaling even kicks in:

Monsters
Large monsters that are not bosses are no longer more powerful than bosses, and boss monsters are now more powerful

The following monsters are now immune to crowd control effects:
Daedroths

Liches

Trolls

Watchers

Wispmothers

...and you have even more of an issue. CC's essentially become even less useful than they already were. I'm semi-ok with bosses being immune, but come on.

Selene's was bugging out last night, summoning live cats and spirit cats at same time. That's in addition to the increased amount of poison AoE Longclaw was putting out and traps resetting like crazy.

The three VR1's I was with didn't stand a chance, and I spent more time blocking and dodging red than being able to have time to heal the four of us. That was with an exceptional amount of CC to slow kitties down.

Then you have the cat that got stuck in the tree, unable to be damaged, preventing LC from jumping down. Sure, we could have pew-pew'd at him for 40 minutes, but that's not the intended mechanic.

I don't think it was a DPS or a tank issue, either. Tank got one-shotted a couple times right at the start and there has to be a clear path to get to him to rez.

The group dungeons have always been a step up on the difficulty / mechanics scale, and that was the intent. Even when at or overleveled, you can't tell me you could waltz in and be clumsy and survive.

I'm not asking to be allowed to be clumsy. Not asking for faceroll. Just asking for reasonable.

Think the VR1's are keen to give it another go, when it costs $$$ and half a dozen soul gems or more to get less than halfway through? If the goal is to separate the player base even further and cause pugs to avoid it entirely, then they're headed in the right direction.

SteveCampsOut · November 2014

OMG! Someone can't finish a trial in 7 minutes or less! And here I thought it was just us Casual/Solo players who were disaffected by the new dungeon scaling! I might faint!

SteveCampsOut · November 2014

TRIP233 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

With the new scaling of Veteran dungeons, all the bosses have 2-3x more HP at VR14. This dramatically increases the amount of time it takes to beat each boss. Some fights last as long as 10 minutes with decent DPS and no deaths. This is for a single boss. Vet dungeons have 4+ bosses.

It's actually impossible to complete these within 20 minutes anymore.

No.. just no... With Dungeon Scaling the speed runs are much much faster. Get a vet 1 in the group of vet 14s, then pass the lead to the vet 1, THEN enter the dungeon. The dungeon will scale to the group leader i.e. the vet 1. The dungeon will be much easier.

Oh and that's not an exploit at all! And who says only us Solo/Casual players want easy mode?!? Hrmmmm... Who could that be??? I was just responding to him elsewhere... Magnus something or other I believe. Says it's just us lazy Casual Solo players who want to play in God Mode.....

Merlin13KAGL · November 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

TRIP233 wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

With the new scaling of Veteran dungeons, all the bosses have 2-3x more HP at VR14. This dramatically increases the amount of time it takes to beat each boss. Some fights last as long as 10 minutes with decent DPS and no deaths. This is for a single boss. Vet dungeons have 4+ bosses.

It's actually impossible to complete these within 20 minutes anymore.

No.. just no... With Dungeon Scaling the speed runs are much much faster. Get a vet 1 in the group of vet 14s, then pass the lead to the vet 1, THEN enter the dungeon. The dungeon will scale to the group leader i.e. the vet 1. The dungeon will be much easier.

Oh and that's not an exploit at all! And who says only us Solo/Casual players want easy mode?!? Hrmmmm... Who could that be??? I was just responding to him elsewhere... Magnus something or other I believe. Says it's just us lazy Casual Solo players who want to play in God Mode.....

Right. There are people out there that still want to earn it.

This leads to two 'low-level' options:

Be carried through an otherwise impossible scenario
Or "Thanks, lower level guy for setting up the dungeon for us. We'd have you run it with us, as you'd probably like to, but instead, your reward is that we'll kick you now.

They need to adjust it so all can contribute without it being one extreme or the other.

(And I'm experienced Undaunted, before anyone gets the wrong idea. I'd like others to be able to become experienced Undaunted too.)

Dubah · November 2014

Hey guys, please don't take any offense to what I'm about to say and understand that I am not trying to portray us as any type of elite squad or anything. I've been running dungeons with the same 4 people since the PTS was out in 2013... So that being said I've had more practice, however other than the dumb deaths that the dps tend to recieve we do not have a problem with speed runs. HOWEVER I do see where the issues can be seeing as some bosses were changed to be incredibly difficult but we've had the practice for about a year and seem to have very few issues adjusting. I can agree the problem is probably there but for us it doesn't exist. The only time we've been really hung up was doing the veteran achievement for the bosses. And sadly we have yet to achieve the no death run in CoH so we are nowhere near elite lol.

Islyn · November 2014

Circuitous wrote: »

Essentially, the biggest difference now is the mechanical one. The bosses use more and more difficult mechanics that require greater coordination to deal with. Fine by me.

I disagree. I fail to see any new mech - just much higher HP and harder hits. I have only done the first 4 lots of dailies - at vr12 - but i saw the total opposite of what you said.

Divinius · November 2014

Islyn wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

Essentially, the biggest difference now is the mechanical one. The bosses use more and more difficult mechanics that require greater coordination to deal with. Fine by me.

I disagree. I fail to see any new mech - just much higher HP and harder hits. I have only done the first 4 lots of dailies - at vr12 - but i saw the total opposite of what you said.

If you read the second paragraph of the post he's responding to, you'll see that he's referring to the difference between the actual "Veteran" versions of the dungeons compared to the standard dungeons when scaled all the way up to vet levels.