Zintair wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

They allow people to get used to a mechanic and then jerk it from under us.
Not losing gear..a crutch.
No repair bill..a crutch.
Not having to go back and reclaim your body...a crutch.
Not losing XP and levels..a crutch.
You still have transitus..a crutch.
You still have rezz stones..a crutch.

Calling something a crutch cause you no longer have it to trick your mind into accepting a &*^&%$ up game situation or to try to make others feel bad because they scream ouch only brings to light what current crutches we STILL use.

Except for there was this magical time where camps didnt work and we did get by just fine for months.

We got so used to camps as our strength we forgot all the skills we learned before summer.

I disagree. Everyone in general wasn't as in the "know" regarding abilities/armor/combos/tactics etc as they are now.

We could wipe 100 DC inc to bleakers with 20 people. Now we would get melted REAL fast.

You take what was and apply it now too much has changed. The average level of player skill is VERY skewed.

Lets not forget Nightblades were awful and Bows were trash. Big changer to that as well when people can just spread out and mash 1 key from range and do 1k DPS.

Counter balance is that in those days you had the super dks before all of the nerfs. remember them? Guys like Sypher and Hovaling have nothing on what those guys could do. Literally take on 50 people at once, solo, without AOE caps, stacked batswarms, standards that did almost twice as much damage and gave almost twice as much damage reduction. Ultimate generation on par with a modern emperor.

A modern emperor DK is actually weaker than the old school DKs from the first month that figured it all out. They didnt need to be emp to wipe raids.

And this was still in the learning age as you seem to consider it. Skill synergies were so OP back then that the new nightblades and 1vXers hardly look impressive by comparison.

Zintair wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

They allow people to get used to a mechanic and then jerk it from under us.
Not losing gear..a crutch.
No repair bill..a crutch.
Not having to go back and reclaim your body...a crutch.
Not losing XP and levels..a crutch.
You still have transitus..a crutch.
You still have rezz stones..a crutch.

Calling something a crutch cause you no longer have it to trick your mind into accepting a &*^&%$ up game situation or to try to make others feel bad because they scream ouch only brings to light what current crutches we STILL use.

Except for there was this magical time where camps didnt work and we did get by just fine for months.

We got so used to camps as our strength we forgot all the skills we learned before summer.

I disagree. Everyone in general wasn't as in the "know" regarding abilities/armor/combos/tactics etc as they are now.

We could wipe 100 DC inc to bleakers with 20 people. Now we would get melted REAL fast.

You take what was and apply it now too much has changed. The average level of player skill is VERY skewed.

Lets not forget Nightblades were awful and Bows were trash. Big changer to that as well when people can just spread out and mash 1 key from range and do 1k DPS.

Counter balance is that in those days you had the super dks before all of the nerfs. remember them? Guys like Sypher and Hovaling have nothing on what those guys could do. Literally take on 50 people at once, solo, without AOE caps, stacked batswarms, standards that did almost twice as much damage and gave almost twice as much damage reduction. Ultimate generation on par with a modern emperor.

And this was still in the learning age as you seem to consider it. Skill synergies were so OP back then that the new nightblades and 1vXers hardly look impressive by comparison.

I won't disagree with that. However (I'm making this number up based on gut feeling and time played/experience) 70ish% of the population has improved significantly from then, the rest were either already strong players or are new or just bad.

Compare that to the few DKs like Neighbor from DC and others who cheesed Batswarm stacks? Johnny Hammersticks (oilpots) from Wabbajack sorc who just solo defended outposts with Oil pots.

It was only a few people. I dunno.

Although Energy Orb Synergy was by far the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in PvP in any game in my life lolol.

Blue balls of doom. But in all seriousness, the game was harder back then. We have had easy mode camp bloodport for so long, that most people never improved, they got worse.

This is why some of the current strong guilds stand out so much, because they never relied on the mechanic to win. Theyd show up, and theyd win without wiping a single time.

Theyd defend without losing a man despite constant zergball respawn just outside the breach at a resource, pouring through the hole... getting defense ticks in the mid to high five digit range.

Ive been in those situations, ive gotten defense ticks like that. When i look around in AD zone today, all i saw was griping to get somewhere, panic, and confusion over what to do. People are so used to waiting dead at a resource for the next camp to pop up, they dont even know the terrain and features around the keeps anymore.

Maybe youre right people have gotten better at what skills do what, but theyve gotten way worse at situational awareness, teamwork, and general strategy.

Nala_ wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

But in all seriousness, the game was harder back then. We have had easy mode camp bloodport for so long, that most people never improved, they got worse.

the game was so easy back then you mean, no one knew anything about the game and people would farm 1+mil a day doing nothing but oiling people who didnt know what oiling was, or killing themselves over and over against DKs because they didnt know what wings were. people could keep batswarm up forever and just slay infinite noobs that didnt know anything about the game.

everyone has gained so much knowledge since then that killing people is just a lot harder, dont know what game you play but zintair is right.

Are you actually implying this doesnt still happen on a daily basis frequently? Before the floor oil nerf I was still setting up and running cubby oil parties pulling 50k AP/hour at a breach.

People still sit in bats, people still shoot my flapflap DK all day with arrows.

Nothing has changed at all. Are there more good players? Questionable, the best players I knew back in the day are long gone now or play on chars I dont recognize.

About the only thing people learned was how to lemming after the crown and spam AoE attacks in a tight ball.

I play Thornblade and also Non Vet Blackwater. I just want to point out if they make keeps harder to take it would make it impossible for Non Vet.

The NPC's are still V5 in that campaign and damn near impossible to beat one solo.

My point is if they can't have NPC's lvl 50 on one campaign and VR5 on another, they sure can't make keeps easier to capture on one versus another OR even have one campaign with camps and another without.

Who's doing the programming over there? Do yall need me to do it?

Malveria wrote: »

Not to mention you shouldn't be able to two-shot anyone in this game anymore. Especially not if you can just disappear afterwards.

Although its completely off topic I disagree. With the absolute crap they have made out of the NB class if a NB ganks u on horseback u should be dead regardless of class. A gank based nightblade also has just about no way of winning a fight if his target survives the first burst. Stop trying to find this One Build To Rule Them All. Mix it up a bit.

Now back to camps. Hell yea rock out love the no camps. Notice how the back door crap and the ninja scrolls from behind the gate has stopped. And I don't want to hear that crap that u cant defend. Blues flagged faregyl and we were able to run on horses from alessia bridge and kick the crap out of them and push them out. Not that it wasn't a fight. It was Hovaling and the super friends we had to push out but we did it. Camp removal made transit and team work more important. And if you had read the patch notes you would not have been surprised.

Why do you think I spent the last week of time on thorn recapping suicide resources. Sure the server yelled at me but it was needed to RETRAIN the way we worked as a faction now were kicking everyone out of our keeps and dominating.

On a side note the fact that you aren't around anymore in PVP ...huge plus to the faction moral. Before zone chat was full of you raging like you were in the throes of a monster period. Now zone chat is full of helpful notifications like enemy troop movement, so feel free to stay gone.

Rylana wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

They allow people to get used to a mechanic and then jerk it from under us.
Not losing gear..a crutch.
No repair bill..a crutch.
Not having to go back and reclaim your body...a crutch.
Not losing XP and levels..a crutch.
You still have transitus..a crutch.
You still have rezz stones..a crutch.

Calling something a crutch cause you no longer have it to trick your mind into accepting a &*^&%$ up game situation or to try to make others feel bad because they scream ouch only brings to light what current crutches we STILL use.

Except for there was this magical time where camps didnt work and we did get by just fine for months.

We got so used to camps as our strength we forgot all the skills we learned before summer.

I disagree. Everyone in general wasn't as in the "know" regarding abilities/armor/combos/tactics etc as they are now.

We could wipe 100 DC inc to bleakers with 20 people. Now we would get melted REAL fast.

You take what was and apply it now too much has changed. The average level of player skill is VERY skewed.

Lets not forget Nightblades were awful and Bows were trash. Big changer to that as well when people can just spread out and mash 1 key from range and do 1k DPS.

Counter balance is that in those days you had the super dks before all of the nerfs. remember them? Guys like Sypher and Hovaling have nothing on what those guys could do. Literally take on 50 people at once, solo, without AOE caps, stacked batswarms, standards that did almost twice as much damage and gave almost twice as much damage reduction. Ultimate generation on par with a modern emperor.

A modern emperor DK is actually weaker than the old school DKs from the first month that figured it all out. They didnt need to be emp to wipe raids.

And this was still in the learning age as you seem to consider it. Skill synergies were so OP back then that the new nightblades and 1vXers hardly look impressive by comparison.

Ah those days! Seems like ages ago.

Actually the most notorious one in EU was not a DK, but a Sorc played by a french guy that went by the name Pryda.

He at least acknowledged how crazy the game was back then (especially things like Streak and Batswarm stacking for him) and created a video to demonstrate, unfortunately using my guild as a victim

Let the clip roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucmjldufa6U

*Sigh, so many lost players since. Makes you sad.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler has already confirmed in a post that they are looking into siege times and increasing them. As for combat ressing, that's the risk you take for taking time away from a battle to res someone. Battles are more decisive now as a result.

decado0024_ESO wrote: »

Malveria wrote: »

Not to mention you shouldn't be able to two-shot anyone in this game anymore. Especially not if you can just disappear afterwards.

Although its completely off topic I disagree. With the absolute crap they have made out of the NB class if a NB ganks u on horseback u should be dead regardless of class. A gank based nightblade also has just about no way of winning a fight if his target survives the first burst. Stop trying to find this One Build To Rule Them All. Mix it up a bit.

Now back to camps. Hell yea rock out love the no camps. Notice how the back door crap and the ninja scrolls from behind the gate has stopped. And I don't want to hear that crap that u cant defend. Blues flagged faregyl and we were able to run on horses from alessia bridge and kick the crap out of them and push them out. Not that it wasn't a fight. It was Hovaling and the super friends we had to push out but we did it. Camp removal made transit and team work more important. And if you had read the patch notes you would not have been surprised.

Why do you think I spent the last week of time on thorn recapping suicide resources. Sure the server yelled at me but it was needed to RETRAIN the way we worked as a faction now were kicking everyone out of our keeps and dominating.

On a side note the fact that you aren't around anymore in PVP ...huge plus to the faction moral. Before zone chat was full of you raging like you were in the throes of a monster period. Now zone chat is full of helpful notifications like enemy troop movement, so feel free to stay gone.

I still thought it was funny how everyone blamed me for that fiasco when it was your call.

My bad for being vocal i guess XD

Looks like we were right though, talk about precognition, but hell not even I expected them to just take camps completely away like that.

Rylana wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

They allow people to get used to a mechanic and then jerk it from under us.
Not losing gear..a crutch.
No repair bill..a crutch.
Not having to go back and reclaim your body...a crutch.
Not losing XP and levels..a crutch.
You still have transitus..a crutch.
You still have rezz stones..a crutch.

Calling something a crutch cause you no longer have it to trick your mind into accepting a &*^&%$ up game situation or to try to make others feel bad because they scream ouch only brings to light what current crutches we STILL use.

Except for there was this magical time where camps didnt work and we did get by just fine for months.

We got so used to camps as our strength we forgot all the skills we learned before summer.

I disagree. Everyone in general wasn't as in the "know" regarding abilities/armor/combos/tactics etc as they are now.

We could wipe 100 DC inc to bleakers with 20 people. Now we would get melted REAL fast.

You take what was and apply it now too much has changed. The average level of player skill is VERY skewed.

Lets not forget Nightblades were awful and Bows were trash. Big changer to that as well when people can just spread out and mash 1 key from range and do 1k DPS.

Counter balance is that in those days you had the super dks before all of the nerfs. remember them? Guys like Sypher and Hovaling have nothing on what those guys could do. Literally take on 50 people at once, solo, without AOE caps, stacked batswarms, standards that did almost twice as much damage and gave almost twice as much damage reduction. Ultimate generation on par with a modern emperor.

A modern emperor DK is actually weaker than the old school DKs from the first month that figured it all out. They didnt need to be emp to wipe raids.

And this was still in the learning age as you seem to consider it. Skill synergies were so OP back then that the new nightblades and 1vXers hardly look impressive by comparison.

Ah those days! Seems like ages ago.

Actually the most notorious one in EU was not a DK, but a Sorc played by a french guy that went by the name Pryda.

He at least acknowledged how crazy the game was back then (especially things like Streak and Batswarm stacking for him) and created a video to demonstrate, unfortunately using my guild as a victim

Let the clip roll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucmjldufa6U

*Sigh, so many lost players since. Makes you sad.

Jesus christ, someone actually has a vid of those days. Thats exactly what im talking about. Thats not just 1vX, thats 1vX-squared. And from the health on that player, they werent even emp at the time.

I was doing similar things on Blackwater Blade as emp sorc (clouding/streak because impen was so rare there). But I never wiped a raid THAT big.

Yep, we have vids but we don't like to show/watch them usually, they are too scarring. They also makes us reminisce all the guild mates we had since Beta that we lost through time.

Pryda was one of the first players in EU to identify issues with the Vampire mechanics and to devise a full cloth, ult-reduction sorc build that simply exposed how broken the game was. And certainly the one who did it best at the time.

In Emperor mode he wouldn't just farm a raid. He would grab a yellow scroll and sit on Alessia Bridge for an hour, farming the entire server till he got bored.

My guildmates and I are liking the change to the FCs. But yeah, the time to take down walls needs to be increased or the alert threshold needs to be lowered (10% damages versus 50%).

stylepolice wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

They will continue to steamroll all that unorganised scrubs while they always staying alive as they doing before. And with no camps, defending or attacking a keep will be impossible if there is a bomb group inside/outside. Y'all constantly ride your horses from one keep to another and die to gankers around.

No one -without a strong guild group- will go inside that breach while 100 angry enemy waiting for them with multiple oils and ulties ready. I mean..Why should they.? To ride back 5 mins again? Hell no.

TTK is sooo low to having long paced, tactical combat. You either die to gankers or zergs less than 3 seconds.. And without camps, pvp will fall ground no doubt.

I totally agree with that (emphasis added).

The players who profit most from FCs are the players who die most often - and thats not the bomb grps.

Whats the ratio bomb-grp vs rest? 1:5? 1:10?

You mean in terms of K/d or number of people in bomb groups?

for K/d a typical bomb group will net for each person about a 50-1 K/d most of the time, with lower depending on whether or not they meet another competent bomb group while they farm lemmings. It can go higher, but then its just arbitrary since 50/1 implies that group doesnt die at all while wiping more than double raid zergs consistently. Not something i see much of, even out of some of the better groups ive seen.

If you mean in terms of population, id say for every competent bomber there are 5-10 lemmings.