Group Finder is still bad

Alliel · November 2014

I have been trying to find a group to do some dungeons with the group finder, but it keeps searching for members for hours, so i gave up. Is it bugged or people are just not using it?

diverje · November 2014

I'm with you on this, hours pass and not a soul joins. Something is broken.

Daverios · November 2014

I think like all but 5 peopl woldwide spec'd out of 1h/s with the free respec. At least feels that way searching for groups.

Natjur · November 2014

They changed it. In the past, you would form a group as soon as there was 2 members (and then it would keep searching for the other 2 to fill it)

Now it will not form a group until all 4 are spots are ready (1 healer, 1 tank, 2 dps)

Before this change, it would take hours to find even 2 members (as so few people use the LFG system), now that it waits all four spots and tanks are rare (no one want to tank a PUG group) I expect you will be looking for hours. (unless you mark yourself for all roles, tank, dps and healer)

I have given up on PUG groups and just to guild only runs. Now with the scaling dungeons, team speak makes life so much easier.

EDIT: Just did a test, got four guild mates (three others and me) and we all marked our self's as Tank, DPS and Healer and all joined the LFG at the same time and all for the same dungeon to see if it would group us.

We all instantly got groups, but we were in four different groups, all marked as the tank for that group, so it looks like there are a few groups 'waiting' in the que for tanks

diverje · November 2014

Thanks for the feedback + testing around this, Natjur. I have to admit, it would be nice to at least have an indicator that there is a blip of life somewhere. Lack of indicators like these often worry me and I begin to wonder if the game is nearing death or something due to no one playing it. (Honestly, after running around in zones asking for help with anchors or bosses and receiving no responses, then having a group finder not yield any groups – it really starts to make one wonder.)

As much as I'd hate to bring up the dead WOW horse – I have to say that I really enjoy their group finder. I'd love to see similar items pulled over from there; things such as average queue times, slots that are currently filled, and/or waiting to be filled.

Circuitous · November 2014

If ESO's waiting for the four roles to be filled, it really needs a display indicating that potential slots are found. You'd think even a super basic one would be rolled out with that change.

brandon · November 2014

I hate the group finder so much. It is pretty much useless and you pointed out what i think pretty well. Another thing that annoys me about it is the fact that you can only group find in your level range. Meaning if you're level 46 you can't use it for a dungeon like spindleclutch. It wouldn't be so bad if people actually responded to zone requests for a group, but no one is ever doing dungeons anymore.

Tanis-Stormbinder · November 2014

So for the casual solo player who wants to level up in the Undaunted Skill Line were force to spam for a group or use a broken Group Finder, Nice.

Sleep · November 2014

Still nobody uses it.

Xupacabra · November 2014

My opinion is that people dont use group finder in any game ive played i can even say they dont know that exist and dont care. Yesterday i was 30 min waiting for a group for the new undanted instances and nothing.. i went to the door of one dungeon and it took me 10 sec to gather a group.
People are just used to spam in chat those things and is done.
Should be a mandatory tutorial for group search.

ers101284b14_ESO · November 2014

FF14 forces you to use theirs and it makes it easy to get groups because people get comfortable with it. Even if you make a group you still have to use it to enter the dungeons. But imagine the outcry here if ZOS did that. But how do they make it more appealing and not force people to use it and getting them angry? That's a toughy.

guybrushtb16_ESO · November 2014

Right now, there are 4 simple steps to make the group finder work:

1. Point people towards it with the first undaunted quest, and give a reward for first using the groupfinder. Also, point people towards the undaunted when they first enter any dungeon. This may already be happening, but I've recently seen somebody with quite a high level without the undaunted skill line in a dungeon, so maybe it's not enough.
2. Faction barriers, get rid of them.
3. Scale players to the dungeon, not the dungeon to the player, the way gw2 does. This way, high level players who are in it for their undaunted points can fill the gaps in low level groups. The current system is useless because obviously nobody is going to want to do banished cells with you at level 38, it just doesn't help at all.
4. Swap Inner fire to undaunted level Anything to encourage more tanks. There are too many people who would tank, but won't completely respec their magicka build just for one dungeon. Bonus points for a dual spec system here.

I do realize that some of them may very well be a nightmare to code now, depending on how things work behind the scenes, but what I don't understand is why it wasn't like that to begin with. The current situation was very much to be expected IMO.

Tanis-Stormbinder · November 2014

Great suggestions hope someone is listening

brandon · November 2014

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Right now, there are 4 simple steps to make the group finder work:

1. Point people towards it with the first undaunted quest, and give a reward for first using the groupfinder. Also, point people towards the undaunted when they first enter any dungeon. This may already be happening, but I've recently seen somebody with quite a high level without the undaunted skill line in a dungeon, so maybe it's not enough.
2. Faction barriers, get rid of them.
3. Scale players to the dungeon, not the dungeon to the player, the way gw2 does. This way, high level players who are in it for their undaunted points can fill the gaps in low level groups. The current system is useless because obviously nobody is going to want to do banished cells with you at level 38, it just doesn't help at all.
4. Swap Inner fire to undaunted level Anything to encourage more tanks. There are too many people who would tank, but won't completely respec their magicka build just for one dungeon. Bonus points for a dual spec system here.

I do realize that some of them may very well be a nightmare to code now, depending on how things work behind the scenes, but what I don't understand is why it wasn't like that to begin with. The current situation was very much to be expected IMO.

I agree with everything you have to say except removing faction barriers. There is a reason that they are there and it wouldn't make sense story wise for them to be removed. At least not while this 3 alliance story arc is going on.

Rosveen · November 2014

brandon wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Right now, there are 4 simple steps to make the group finder work:

1. Point people towards it with the first undaunted quest, and give a reward for first using the groupfinder. Also, point people towards the undaunted when they first enter any dungeon. This may already be happening, but I've recently seen somebody with quite a high level without the undaunted skill line in a dungeon, so maybe it's not enough.
2. Faction barriers, get rid of them.
3. Scale players to the dungeon, not the dungeon to the player, the way gw2 does. This way, high level players who are in it for their undaunted points can fill the gaps in low level groups. The current system is useless because obviously nobody is going to want to do banished cells with you at level 38, it just doesn't help at all.
4. Swap Inner fire to undaunted level Anything to encourage more tanks. There are too many people who would tank, but won't completely respec their magicka build just for one dungeon. Bonus points for a dual spec system here.

I do realize that some of them may very well be a nightmare to code now, depending on how things work behind the scenes, but what I don't understand is why it wasn't like that to begin with. The current situation was very much to be expected IMO.

I agree with everything you have to say except removing faction barriers. There is a reason that they are there and it wouldn't make sense story wise for them to be removed. At least not while this 3 alliance story arc is going on.

It makes perfect sense to remove them in veteran content, at least.

brandon · November 2014

Rosveen wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Right now, there are 4 simple steps to make the group finder work:

1. Point people towards it with the first undaunted quest, and give a reward for first using the groupfinder. Also, point people towards the undaunted when they first enter any dungeon. This may already be happening, but I've recently seen somebody with quite a high level without the undaunted skill line in a dungeon, so maybe it's not enough.
2. Faction barriers, get rid of them.
3. Scale players to the dungeon, not the dungeon to the player, the way gw2 does. This way, high level players who are in it for their undaunted points can fill the gaps in low level groups. The current system is useless because obviously nobody is going to want to do banished cells with you at level 38, it just doesn't help at all.
4. Swap Inner fire to undaunted level Anything to encourage more tanks. There are too many people who would tank, but won't completely respec their magicka build just for one dungeon. Bonus points for a dual spec system here.

I do realize that some of them may very well be a nightmare to code now, depending on how things work behind the scenes, but what I don't understand is why it wasn't like that to begin with. The current situation was very much to be expected IMO.

I agree with everything you have to say except removing faction barriers. There is a reason that they are there and it wouldn't make sense story wise for them to be removed. At least not while this 3 alliance story arc is going on.

It makes perfect sense to remove them in veteran content, at least.

Not really considering you still have the whole cyrodiil thing, which still follows the whole 3 alliance war arc. If that is ever brought to a conclusion then sure go for it.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · November 2014

Circuitous wrote: »

If ESO's waiting for the four roles to be filled, it really needs a display indicating that potential slots are found. You'd think even a super basic one would be rolled out with that change.

You would think the programmers tasked with creating user interface for a supposedly top tier MMO title would have at least adequate skills in UI design, but sadly, that does not seem to be the case. Almost every single 2D UI in the game is badly designed, some of them to the point of being half broken. It's as if they were haphazardly thrown together by an intern and abandoned in a half finished state.

The new group finder tool is just one example of many where the game fails to present essential information to the user. The developers seem to be constantly confusing "minimalist" with "crude" in their user interface designs.

Paske · November 2014

I play V2 tank - no one vants to play with V2 tank if they are V14.

If they make me leader they get crap loot.

So generally with dungeon scaling nothing changed.
People still dislike lower lvls. Its hard to find a group below max level.

With massive XP nerf reaching max level on alt seems like a dream.

Cherryblossom · November 2014

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Right now, there are 4 simple steps to make the group finder work:

1. Point people towards it with the first undaunted quest, and give a reward for first using the groupfinder. Also, point people towards the undaunted when they first enter any dungeon. This may already be happening, but I've recently seen somebody with quite a high level without the undaunted skill line in a dungeon, so maybe it's not enough.
2. Faction barriers, get rid of them.
3. Scale players to the dungeon, not the dungeon to the player, the way gw2 does. This way, high level players who are in it for their undaunted points can fill the gaps in low level groups. The current system is useless because obviously nobody is going to want to do banished cells with you at level 38, it just doesn't help at all.
4. Swap Inner fire to undaunted level Anything to encourage more tanks. There are too many people who would tank, but won't completely respec their magicka build just for one dungeon. Bonus points for a dual spec system here.

I do realize that some of them may very well be a nightmare to code now, depending on how things work behind the scenes, but what I don't understand is why it wasn't like that to begin with. The current situation was very much to be expected IMO.

I would agree with what you are saying, I would also the ability to queue for a random Dungeon, also be able to queue for more than one dungeon at a time, tick box for the dungeons you would do.

Cherryblossom · November 2014

brandon wrote: »

I agree with everything you have to say except removing faction barriers. There is a reason that they are there and it wouldn't make sense story wise for them to be removed. At least not while this 3 alliance story arc is going on.

Hope this is not a spoiler, but your point is not Valid as they make all toons play every single faction, so there is no reason not to combine.

OrangeTheCat · November 2014

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Right now, there are 4 simple steps to make the group finder work:

1. Point people towards it with the first undaunted quest, and give a reward for first using the groupfinder. Also, point people towards the undaunted when they first enter any dungeon. This may already be happening, but I've recently seen somebody with quite a high level without the undaunted skill line in a dungeon, so maybe it's not enough.
2. Faction barriers, get rid of them.
3. Scale players to the dungeon, not the dungeon to the player, the way gw2 does. This way, high level players who are in it for their undaunted points can fill the gaps in low level groups. The current system is useless because obviously nobody is going to want to do banished cells with you at level 38, it just doesn't help at all.
4. Swap Inner fire to undaunted level Anything to encourage more tanks. There are too many people who would tank, but won't completely respec their magicka build just for one dungeon. Bonus points for a dual spec system here.

I do realize that some of them may very well be a nightmare to code now, depending on how things work behind the scenes, but what I don't understand is why it wasn't like that to begin with. The current situation was very much to be expected IMO.

Well said. I'd like to add that scaling to the player assumes there is a roughly even distribution of players across all levels to make it work. But ESO is not alt friendly so the player level distribution is probably heavily weighted to the upper VR levels. So I suspect the new LFG tool works OK for vet levels but is all but useless for everyone else.

Cherryblossom · November 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Right now, there are 4 simple steps to make the group finder work:

1. Point people towards it with the first undaunted quest, and give a reward for first using the groupfinder. Also, point people towards the undaunted when they first enter any dungeon. This may already be happening, but I've recently seen somebody with quite a high level without the undaunted skill line in a dungeon, so maybe it's not enough.
2. Faction barriers, get rid of them.
3. Scale players to the dungeon, not the dungeon to the player, the way gw2 does. This way, high level players who are in it for their undaunted points can fill the gaps in low level groups. The current system is useless because obviously nobody is going to want to do banished cells with you at level 38, it just doesn't help at all.
4. Swap Inner fire to undaunted level Anything to encourage more tanks. There are too many people who would tank, but won't completely respec their magicka build just for one dungeon. Bonus points for a dual spec system here.

I do realize that some of them may very well be a nightmare to code now, depending on how things work behind the scenes, but what I don't understand is why it wasn't like that to begin with. The current situation was very much to be expected IMO.

Well said. I'd like to add that scaling to the player assumes there is a roughly even distribution of players across all levels to make it work. But ESO is not alt friendly so the player level distribution is probably heavily weighted to the upper VR levels. So I suspect the new LFG tool works OK for vet levels but is all but useless for everyone else.

it's useless for Vet levels as well, not one pop for Heal's DPS!
I would love to hear from ZOS if there is indeed a bug or if it is actually useless....

ZOS_GinaBruno · November 2014

Hey guys, are you seeing this issue across all selections in the LFG tool, or just certain ones (dungeons, PvE, Cyrodiil, etc.)

rophez_ESO · November 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, are you seeing this issue across all selections in the LFG tool, or just certain ones (dungeons, PvE, Cyrodiil, etc.)

My anecdote: Last night I tried to form two groups for the daily pledges. Considering it was prime time and it was the current pledge, I thought the groups would fill quickly. I waited about 20 minutes and gave up - used /zone chat to fill the party in less than 3 minutes both times.

Jabber · November 2014

Please for the love of god rework the lfg tool and interface, encourage people to use it some how. Offer a 1,000g reward for completing a dungeon via the lfg tool

Alliel · November 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, are you seeing this issue across all selections in the LFG tool, or just certain ones (dungeons, PvE, Cyrodiil, etc.)

I have tried using all selections in the LFG tool, then tried selecting individual dungeons, waited about 30 min for each time i tried and gave up.
This is very frustrating. I was looking forward to this new LFG tool, but it just does not work for me.

Robocles · November 2014

Gee... a tank shortage in an MMO. Priceless.

More on topic: The pugs I've tanked for in this game made me want to quit.

Gilvoth · November 2014

Alliel wrote: »

I have been trying to find a group to do some dungeons with the group finder, but it keeps searching for members for hours, so i gave up. Is it bugged or people are just not using it?

that is exactly what happened to me last night for about 6 hrs.
just kept on loading and loading and loading ... nothing, no invites, members, nothing.

Alphashado · November 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, are you seeing this issue across all selections in the LFG tool, or just certain ones (dungeons, PvE, Cyrodiil, etc.)

I will go out on a limb here and suggest that 95% of the LFG tool usage is for dungeons and dungeons only. Both normal and VR. I don't think many people use it for anything else. The main reason most people use the LFG tool is to find a quick group for a dungeon.

Robocles · November 2014

It's not like ZOS can't track who's using it for what.

Audigy · November 2014

I think many people don't have much experience with LFG tools. To wait for 20 minutes as a DPS is pretty standard, at WOW you wait up to 50 minutes at times.

Instant queues usually only go to tanks, healers wait a bit and then after a long wait the DPS will come.

This is what you get for being rude to tanks and healers all the time, don't blame the tool, blame your attitude (those that are rude in dungeons).

That said, if there is a bug then it needs fixing but the dream of instant queues wont come true unless you play tank