"Forward Camps will no longer be sold by Merchants in Cyrodiil."

Psilent · November 2014

Icy wrote: »

Oh god. Do you know what this really means though?

NO ONE WILL EVER CHARGE THE BREACH.

It's hard enough to get people to jump in at the moment; I'm often the only person standing there, flailing away, but it's OK because I can die and come back and maybe (just maybe) someone will follow me.

NOW WHAT HOPE IS THERE???!!!!

All those archers and ranged attackers? It's no good if someone doesn't actually go through the gap to the other side.

What did people do when the camps were broken? I wasn't PvPing at that time, was it hard to take a Keep?

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

Psilent wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

Oh god. Do you know what this really means though?

NO ONE WILL EVER CHARGE THE BREACH.

It's hard enough to get people to jump in at the moment; I'm often the only person standing there, flailing away, but it's OK because I can die and come back and maybe (just maybe) someone will follow me.

NOW WHAT HOPE IS THERE???!!!!

All those archers and ranged attackers? It's no good if someone doesn't actually go through the gap to the other side.

What did people do when the camps were broken? I wasn't PvPing at that time, was it hard to take a Keep?

Yes.

You had to either outnumber the defenders fairly significantly or you had to out play them by a large margin. Catch them doing something stupid like failing to fall back to the inner and wipe them in the courtyard.

We used to put FCs in the most obvious to find spots, just so they'd get burned when bugged and we could drop another.

There were also repeated feints and false attacks to draw enemy combatants away from the real target. Siege didn't decay anywhere near as fast back then, so we'd put down 18 oil pots and then flag a keep with a couple of ballistas, showing 20/20 siege. We once did that on three keeps at once, and took the keep no one responded to.

At the same time, the breaches will be easier to push past if you take the cubbies to the left and right. They can't put oils in them anymore and once you're free of the siege, you can start pushing more.

Aerrimus · November 2014

Icy wrote: »

Oh god. Do you know what this really means though?

NO ONE WILL EVER CHARGE THE BREACH.

It's hard enough to get people to jump in at the moment; I'm often the only person standing there, flailing away, but it's OK because I can die and come back and maybe (just maybe) someone will follow me.

NOW WHAT HOPE IS THERE???!!!!

All those archers and ranged attackers? It's no good if someone doesn't actually go through the gap to the other side.

If they let the DK chain pull people off the walls like the good ole days this wouldn't be a problem...give me my chains back!!!

AhPook_Is_Here · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

Inconveniencing?

in·con·ven·ience (nkn-vnyns)
n.
1. The state or quality of being inconvenient.
2. Something inconvenient.
tr.v. in·con·ven·ienced, in·con·ven·ienc·ing, in·con·ven·ienc·es
To cause inconvenience to; trouble: The snow inconvenienced the holiday travelers.

He verbed ur noun bro!

AhPook_Is_Here · November 2014

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

They should make walls and doors tougher I suppose.

We had a similar discussion on our guild's forum when this was all hypothetical, and that was my suggestion as well; beef up the walls some and it is all good.

Gooey · November 2014

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Dont forget about this:

You forgot something else.

AhPook_Is_Here · November 2014

Icy wrote: »

Oh god. Do you know what this really means though?

NO ONE WILL EVER CHARGE THE BREACH.

It's hard enough to get people to jump in at the moment; I'm often the only person standing there, flailing away, but it's OK because I can die and come back and maybe (just maybe) someone will follow me.

NOW WHAT HOPE IS THERE???!!!!

All those archers and ranged attackers? It's no good if someone doesn't actually go through the gap to the other side.

Maybe not that bad, once the wall is at 50% the defenders can't respawn at the keep. You can kill them or push them inside and rez your buddies near the gap.

I think till the servers come up and a few days play out it will be hard to know how this change will fully effect ava.

Insurrektion · November 2014

Icy wrote: »

Oh god. Do you know what this really means though?

NO ONE WILL EVER CHARGE THE BREACH.

It's hard enough to get people to jump in at the moment; I'm often the only person standing there, flailing away, but it's OK because I can die and come back and maybe (just maybe) someone will follow me.

NOW WHAT HOPE IS THERE???!!!!

All those archers and ranged attackers? It's no good if someone doesn't actually go through the gap to the other side.

Without FCs there will be no bloodporting to a castle under siege, and no porting to a castle under siege. With weakened oils, this means that this type of mentality will cease to exist once people can experience ALL the changes the new content will bring.

Sacadon · November 2014

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Forward Camps won't be sold by any merchants in Cyrodiil, @Turelus‌.

TristanK, please confirm are FC's being phased out of the game?

Your response implies that, but I prefer to be sure. If you already confirmed this and I missed it, apologies.

Thanks

Davadin · November 2014

lovely change. people will think twice about dying now, which is the whole point of PvP.

super super super.

Davadin · November 2014

Icy wrote: »

Oh god. Do you know what this really means though?

NO ONE WILL EVER CHARGE THE BREACH.

It's hard enough to get people to jump in at the moment; I'm often the only person standing there, flailing away, but it's OK because I can die and come back and maybe (just maybe) someone will follow me.

NOW WHAT HOPE IS THERE???!!!!

All those archers and ranged attackers? It's no good if someone doesn't actually go through the gap to the other side.

Huh?

No.

Attackers have range too, and u think the defenders can respawn there when the wall is breached?

this will be many very resource-sensitive action. keep your gems. your pots. your friends alive. or else, once the number thins out, there are people that've been waiting a looong time to charge.........

Cody · November 2014

so they finally began doing something about the FC issue... about dang time.

once they get FCs fixed, then they need to fix the lag and crashing. THEN remove block and casting.

Galalin · November 2014

Cody wrote: »

so they finally began doing something about the FC issue... about dang time.

once they get FCs fixed, then they need to fix the lag and crashing. THEN remove block and casting.

Lol Cody... why you hate block so much?

Much love for the block.

Still think it should be only with a 1h/s but as it stands eveyone can

PlagueMonk · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Daoc never had forward camps. seiges weren't trivial either. Good change imho.

Yup. In DAOC the attackers had to win or wipe. They had to eventually commit to trying to overrun the keep and that's when it was at the point they were all in on their choice.

If they wiped entering the courtyard or trying to kill the lord, that was typically that. The defenders won, and got to repair the keep.

We don't have that in ESO in 1.4 in earlier. It was wave after wave of bodies exhausting you, either as defense or offense.

Good to see someone else point this out before I did.

I fondly remember MANY battles where we would take a keep on enemy soil and then defended it literally to the death. Battles like this always favored the enemy because their trip back was MUCH faster and you knew all you had were those currently around you. Rezzing the fallen was extremely important.

Anyone remember uttering the words......."I only have 10 secs until my rez timer is up!!!! HURRY and rez me!"

All they need to do is add a rez timer to ESO.

PlagueMonk · November 2014

Davadin wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

Oh god. Do you know what this really means though?

NO ONE WILL EVER CHARGE THE BREACH.

It's hard enough to get people to jump in at the moment; I'm often the only person standing there, flailing away, but it's OK because I can die and come back and maybe (just maybe) someone will follow me.

NOW WHAT HOPE IS THERE???!!!!

All those archers and ranged attackers? It's no good if someone doesn't actually go through the gap to the other side.

Huh?

No.

Attackers have range too, and u think the defenders can respawn there when the wall is breached?

this will be many very resource-sensitive action. keep your gems. your pots. your friends alive. or else, once the number thins out, there are people that've been waiting a looong time to charge.........

Also recall the best breach defense was lots of oils. Well if you notice oils went >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thatta way.

Seriously though.......all the zerg will do is the same thing they always do......charge in as a monkey spamming group. Most will survive if you also have the healers. The good thing though is, the monkey spam groups can't go camp a tower and oil/PBAoE farm players.

Columba · November 2014

daoc, lolhammer, gw2, aion and other good games never had the fc crutch. ESO pvprs got lazy. suck it up, cupcakes, real wvw begins.

LonePirate · November 2014

Did any keeps flip from one faction to another tonight on Thornblade NA? I was only in Cyrodiil for a couple of hours tonight but all I saw were a few resources change hands. Is this the future of the game?

Pchela · November 2014

I flip-flopped on whether or not I liked the FC change or not, but I have to say: I was at a BRK defense earlier and it was really one of the more intense defenses I've been in. Very fun and strategy suddenly matter a lot more. I foresee many more alliance skills being used, such as siege shields, caltrops, etc. Especially with Cyrodiil being as slow as it was tonight, AP gains were kinda 'meh', and my siege weapons became a bit more precious to me.

Columba · November 2014

the best fights in dark age weren't keep fights. just saying.

Tintinabula · November 2014

People rezz you though me not so much

Pchela · November 2014

Tintinabula wrote: »

People rezz you though me not so much

If Siv doesn't grab ya, I sure will

I always make sure to have a minimum of 50 soul gems on me, and got myself into an early habit of rez'ing people around me, grouped with me or not. Everyone's vital in some way to a battle. But people will def have to start rezzing the templars first, since THEY rez people faster and have all those nice perks.

Columba · November 2014

I rezz everyone, including low level players.

Sacadon · November 2014

I'm - EDIT: no longer - speculating that FCs are NOT completely gone now based on:

- ZOS will only confirm they will not be sold by merchants in Cyrodill. Could be both PR reasons and/or FC's are staying but in a new and different way.

- Quest for being new in Cyrodill now gives you a "Limited Forward Camp" upon completion EDIT: but based on the PTS comment this is a temporary measure to reduce change complexity.

- No effort invested in preventing EU from amassing FCs... Suspect that NA was just 1st into update 5 vs. ESO forgetting to hide a ninja removal from EU

- Guild summit notes confirm ZOS wanted to try limited camps before removing them.

Regardless, EDIT- a poor execution in setting clear expectations for us upon the release of update 5.

Cody · November 2014

Galalin wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

so they finally began doing something about the FC issue... about dang time.

once they get FCs fixed, then they need to fix the lag and crashing. THEN remove block and casting.

Lol Cody... why you hate block so much?

Much love for the block.

Still think it should be only with a 1h/s but as it stands eveyone can

I hate it because it turns PvP into a matter of who can keep up block the longest, not a matter of actual combat.

I know everyone can do it, in fact, most people do, which frustrates me.

I don't hate blocking itself, I hate blocking and casting.

serenenightmare · November 2014

Would have been nice to just have them disabled if they were taking them away completely.

Davadin · November 2014

Cody wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

so they finally began doing something about the FC issue... about dang time.

once they get FCs fixed, then they need to fix the lag and crashing. THEN remove block and casting.

Lol Cody... why you hate block so much?

Much love for the block.

Still think it should be only with a 1h/s but as it stands eveyone can

I hate it because it turns PvP into a matter of who can keep up block the longest, not a matter of actual combat.

I know everyone can do it, in fact, most people do, which frustrates me.

I don't hate blocking itself, I hate blocking and casting.

It should be if a 1h+s user blocks, the skill is 50% effective. For everyone else, the skill is 25% effective.

This makes total sense.

driosketch · November 2014

omniobsessed wrote: »

- Quest for being new in Cyrodill now gives you a "Limited Forward Camp" upon completion.

@omniobsessed‌ the reason why they didn't just yank that part of the quest was explained on the PTS board.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Yupper! Well aware of it and we already have the changes for this ready but haven't hit PTS simply based on when various data changes have been made. As for the particular of why we didn't rip it out even though we knew about them.... it has a domino effect on the NPC's dialogue which would result in the NPC saying "hey here's a forward camp" but you don't actually get one. Editing their text would also result in a mismatch to what the NPC is saying to what's printed on screen, so we're working on getting that matched up.

Sacadon · November 2014

driosketch wrote: »

omniobsessed wrote: »

- Quest for being new in Cyrodill now gives you a "Limited Forward Camp" upon completion.

@omniobsessed‌ the reason why they didn't just yank that part of the quest was explained on the PTS board.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Yupper! Well aware of it and we already have the changes for this ready but haven't hit PTS simply based on when various data changes have been made. As for the particular of why we didn't rip it out even though we knew about them.... it has a domino effect on the NPC's dialogue which would result in the NPC saying "hey here's a forward camp" but you don't actually get one. Editing their text would also result in a mismatch to what the NPC is saying to what's printed on screen, so we're working on getting that matched up.

Thanks, I didn't see that... definitely points much more towards the removal of them with this information.

Icy · November 2014

omniobsessed wrote: »

I'm - EDIT: no longer - speculating that FCs are NOT completely gone now based on:

- ZOS will only confirm they will not be sold by merchants in Cyrodill. Could be both PR reasons and/or FC's are staying but in a new and different way.

A guildie had an interesting thought... He wanted to know if the Imperial City counted as Cyrodiil. Imagine being able to buy FCs from merchants in the city...

omniobsessed wrote: »

- Quest for being new in Cyrodill now gives you a "Limited Forward Camp" upon completion EDIT: but based on the PTS comment this is a temporary measure to reduce change complexity.

They always had a limited FC - but it originally allowed 5 players through and they weren't character bound.

RAZORNZL · November 2014

BEST IDEA EVER! RIP zerg suicide repeat.i will pvp once again.