Please roll back recent patch

DenverRalphy · November 2014

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

This patch just killed the solo aspect of eso.

No it didn't. Not even close. Every solo quest can be completed by every class at the recommended level. Unless the player expects to Tank-N-Spank every boss. Learn the mechanics for each instance, and it's easy peasy.

sagitter · November 2014

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

This patch just killed the solo aspect of eso.

Why? i don't think so ,the only dungeons that can't be soloed are group dungeons, that are born for group since start.

mandragor1996 · November 2014

Does the scaling not effect dungeons in the 16 and under area? I ran through most dungeons last night and dont remember seeing any level change from the dungeon monsters? Also they were not that hard either.

Varicite · November 2014

mandragor1996 wrote: »

Does the scaling not effect dungeons in the 16 and under area? I ran through most dungeons last night and dont remember seeing any level change from the dungeon monsters? Also they were not that hard either.

Only solo dungeons and group instanced dungeons were changed.

Elsonso · November 2014

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i am a nightblade duel wield stamina build rouge type, so,
Trust me, i hate the scaling now and i probly wont be able to survive.
i to waited untill i was vet6 to beat molag bal. i hate to admit that and yes im embarrased about it but truth is my nightblade just couldnt survive manimarco and the molag ball till i was strong enough.
with this scaling i would never make it tho, and thats a fact.

I do not think it is a fact. The reason is that solo scaling goes both directions.

What really amazes me, and maybe it is due to the fact that it has not sunk in, is that people on the forum are not screaming NERF! over dungeon scaling. They scream NERF! about everything else. It seems to be the favorite word around here and yet not a peep about it in regards to solo dungeon scaling.

NadiusMaximus · November 2014

Because they were fine before, no nerf needed.
I'm a lvl vet 14 and for the life of me can't even take on mobs in Craglorn like I could three days ago, something changed more than just scaleing

Laplace · November 2014

If you liked the way you played before, you can keep it.

Uber_Lord · November 2014

Is soloing group dungeons even possible now? I don't really care for grouping. I mostly did PVE content alone (just like in previous TES games).
I did group dungeons by levelling a bit higher to compensate for being alone. And there was a lot of challange to complete dungeons by yourself even while being 10+ levels higher.

Gyudan · November 2014

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Because they were fine before, no nerf needed.
I'm a lvl vet 14 and for the life of me can't even take on mobs in Craglorn like I could three days ago, something changed more than just scaleing

Did you forget to allocate your 62 attribute points?
I'm still able to kill groups of mobs in Craglorn (especially those guarding the locations marked in survey maps!) without too much trouble. No changes imo.

glak · November 2014

c0rp wrote: »

Its not impossible..because the more you die the easier the dungeon gets.

Gix wrote: »

glak wrote: »

The whole reason for leveling higher than solo content was to be able to beat it with a casual build or play style. Now we have to l2p like the pros.

Or let the game adjust itself dynamically like it should. Please read the patch notes attentively. I have the feeling that a lot of people are overreacting without actually playing the game or understand what they're reading.

Thank you for the reading instruction and can I have some more

Would feel bad about not leaving a better hint for others less patient as I.
For those who don't care to hunt for as long as I did to find the lightly aforementioned line of patch notes:

(*) Solo scaling recognizes when you are having difficulty with a particular instance, and will compensate accordingly.

If C0rp is correct, that dynamic adjustment will get expensive in terms of repairs. Time for naked, instanced soloing to prime the dynamic adjustment with a difficulty more palatable!

If ZOS ever wonders why the naked solo runs are dominating their event data, they need not look further than this post

Elsonso · November 2014

Yeah, I was originally thinking that adjusting solo instances down would be helpful, and it is, but really all they did was allow players to nerf their own boss fights.

As long as this is in place, no boss in the game will be outside of the reach of the most pathetic character. The only price that has to be paid is time and a few deaths.

It would have been much better to allow more than one player into the solo instances. Even if it was just one other player, Bring-A-Friend, they could get rid of the need to scale down.

lecarcajou_ESO · November 2014

djagarb14_ESO wrote: »

I was waiting till I got higher on purpose.

You're being very un-dude right now... sometimes those brownies take a while to, you know, do their thing to you, man... wait a little longer, get a little higher, and you'll be breezing through those yellow dungeons in no time without thinking you're being penile-ized at all. Y'feel me?

JessieColt · November 2014

What is the point of "Veteran Level Dungeons" if you are facing Vet level mobs because the dungeon scaled to your level?

As an example.. today the Undaunted Pledges/Dailies were Direfrost Keep and Veteran Banished Cells.

Well, that would have been nice and all, except the group for DF resulted in the dungeon being VR12.

What I was seeing in Deshaan now is that there will be a group of 3 players VR10-14 looking for a 4th to join who is 6+ levels LOWER than they are, so that they can make that 4th person the group lead in order to scale down the dungeon.

Somehow I don't think that this is what Zos intended when they set about scaling.

When I ran DF again with guild mates (VR14. VR14, VR5, VR4) with the VR 5 as group lead, the two of us who are VR 14 ended up with 1 - 8 XP points per kill. Trash mobs at VR5 were giving 1 XP per kill, and the Bosses were giving 8 XP per kill.

1 xp for a VR 5 kill seems rather low and in all honesty is not going to do much to foster higher levels helping lower level guild mates.

But on a good note, Zos managed, in one fell swoop to kill ALL Craglorn grinding.

Everyone looking for grinding groups were rebuffed tonight. Even for Anomolies, Tower and all of the other groups that were not "Bittermaw".

There are a lot of nice things about 5, but the xp gain was nerfed WAY too much.

Seriously, Zos, 1 XP for a VR 5 kill? 8 xp for a boss?

cote-bmsb16_ESO · November 2014

The fight against Imirill in Banished Cells when it scales up to v14 is redonkulous. V14s with legendary armor and ***.. We just bailed after 3 hours. Its not even fun. They just added 100,000+ health to the bosses, and added more minions with more health. The dungeon is the same. We completed it like 100s of times prior to this and I don't feel like its worth it to keep beating my face into the wall trying to win.

Elsonso · November 2014

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

The fight against Imirill in Banished Cells when it scales up to v14 is redonkulous. V14s with legendary armor and ***.. We just bailed after 3 hours. Its not even fun. They just added 100,000+ health to the bosses, and added more minions with more health. The dungeon is the same. We completed it like 100s of times prior to this and I don't feel like its worth it to keep beating my face into the wall trying to win.

I thought they only scaled to VR12...

cote-bmsb16_ESO · November 2014

Not sure, I'd have to go back and double look now. Buts its difficult as hell

Rydik · November 2014

Low Xp seems like bug, many people point on this thing, zos looking on it.

Spangla · November 2014

Really bad patch - many aspects not thought out at all. Nerf to sneak in pvp is really really bad imo.

I wish i could go back and play the old game cause this new one sucks

TehMagnus · November 2014

If you read patch notes, they said solo scaled dungeons will notice when you have a hard time (aka when you're dying) and adapt accordingly (lower difficulty of encounter).

Tonnopesce · November 2014

I was running without soul gems since the VR zone nerf during pve sessions now yesterday i got to made 100 of them.
Finnaly the game us fun to play is like the good old days in skyrim when i`ve choose to play in hard mode and need to save evry 5 minutes ..... Good job zos

Lord_Kreegan · November 2014

Since the patch, one of my alts has been stuck on a quest that I previously beat relatively easily on other alts (ones I've deleted) back at release. For two days, this character -- a heavy armor wearing Templar with a fire-enhanced two-handed sword -- has been getting its butt kicked at the phase of the quest PRECEDING the boss. I actually completely replaced all my armor and my sword because the other gear was so thoroughly damaged that it wasn't economical to repair it.

It's not just scaling, it's also the other changes that have been made. The particular quest spawns mobs in waves (always two melee types and one ranged magic type) and the character is hard pressed to survive a single wave, much less multiple waves. The waves come too quickly after each other to heal inbetween waves.

It's impossible to kite the mobs because the quest fails whenever the character exceeds what is a fairly short leash (plus there are neighboring mobs that respawn too quickly too effectively clear out an area even if there wasnt this leash), so it is necessary to basically stand and fight... but, with the scaling and other changes, the character can't DPS the mobs down quickly enough or heal through the damage, and doesn't have enough magicka to fight through the multiple waves.

Like I indicated, I've done the quest before on level. It wasn't impossible before. Now it is. I've out-leveled it and that has made it even worse.

It's like Doshia (at release; not the current one) all over again... only now players can't even out-level a difficult quest to beat it.

It's takes some kind of unique arrogance to put out a system like this. I have to believe ZOS didn't test their changes very thoroughly [again], because certain builds have now been completely destroyed.

So, I've cancelled my subscription again. I play games for enjoyment, not for frustration. I'll give ESO another six months to get their heads out of their asses and then come back again. It seems like it takes that long for common sense to prevail in their development shop and realize that they aren't going to make money taking the path they're currently on.

Elsonso · November 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

If you read patch notes, they said solo scaled dungeons will notice when you have a hard time (aka when you're dying) and adapt accordingly (lower difficulty of encounter).

I will testify that this is, in fact, how the game currently works.

Related to the overall topic of the thread ("Roll back"), I am still not in favor of a roll back, but I am not as happy with the Update as I was 24 hours ago.

Looking for hints on what will be fixed on Monday to determine what in this Update is intentional and what is not.

EDIT to add response to @Lord_Kreegan‌:

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

It's like Doshia (at release; not the current one) all over again... only now players can't even out-level a difficult quest to beat it.

It's takes some kind of unique arrogance to put out a system like this. I have to believe ZOS didn't test their changes very thoroughly [again], because certain
builds have now been completely destroyed.

You were unclear on where this all happened, but I am going to assume it was in a solo instance related to a Mage, Fighter, or Main quest.

I can assure you that the most inept character, and I mean character because I do not want to insult any of you, would be able to beat the original Doshia under this dungeon scaling. If you have the patience to fail, all of the solo instances should be winnable by every character that is at or above the design level of the instance. They did not make the game impossible to beat, they actually made this part of the game impossible to fail. I believe that this is intentional, at some level.

Lunerdog · November 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

If you read patch notes, they said solo scaled dungeons will notice when you have a hard time (aka when you're dying) and adapt accordingly (lower difficulty of encounter).

Yup, and in the mean time your repair bills rocket, wonderful.

nerevarine1138 · November 2014

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Since the patch, one of my alts has been stuck on a quest that I previously beat relatively easily on other alts (ones I've deleted) back at release. For two days, this character -- a heavy armor wearing Templar with a fire-enhanced two-handed sword -- has been getting its butt kicked at the phase of the quest PRECEDING the boss. I actually completely replaced all my armor and my sword because the other gear was so thoroughly damaged that it wasn't economical to repair it.

It's not just scaling, it's also the other changes that have been made. The particular quest spawns mobs in waves (always two melee types and one ranged magic type) and the character is hard pressed to survive a single wave, much less multiple waves. The waves come too quickly after each other to heal inbetween waves.

It's impossible to kite the mobs because the quest fails whenever the character exceeds what is a fairly short leash (plus there are neighboring mobs that respawn too quickly too effectively clear out an area even if there wasnt this leash), so it is necessary to basically stand and fight... but, with the scaling and other changes, the character can't DPS the mobs down quickly enough or heal through the damage, and doesn't have enough magicka to fight through the multiple waves.

Like I indicated, I've done the quest before on level. It wasn't impossible before. Now it is. I've out-leveled it and that has made it even worse.

It's like Doshia (at release; not the current one) all over again... only now players can't even out-level a difficult quest to beat it.

It's takes some kind of unique arrogance to put out a system like this. I have to believe ZOS didn't test their changes very thoroughly [again], because certain builds have now been completely destroyed.

So, I've cancelled my subscription again. I play games for enjoyment, not for frustration. I'll give ESO another six months to get their heads out of their asses and then come back again. It seems like it takes that long for common sense to prevail in their development shop and realize that they aren't going to make money taking the path they're currently on.

Ironically, many players were very upset that they nerfed Doshia into Oblivion with patches.

If you're having trouble completing quests at level, that's your problem, not a design issue. If you have to overlevel quests to complete them, that's a strong indication that you have a bad build/playstyle, and thankfully, the new scaling forces people to come to terms with that before they hit VR14.

Divinius · November 2014

Varicite wrote: »

But for those who actually enjoy a respectable challenge from their games, this makes the solo experience SO much better.

Yes, I agree. It indeed makes the solo experience SO much better for the people that want the challenge, and that's why the level scaling is a nice feature. But because the scaling is forced, and not optional, it makes it SO much worse for the people that didn't want more challenge than they can handle.

If the scaling were optional, it would provide the exact same benefit to the first group that it does currently, without taking anything away from the second group.

AlexDougherty · November 2014

Divinius wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

But for those who actually enjoy a respectable challenge from their games, this makes the solo experience SO much better.

Yes, I agree. It indeed makes the solo experience SO much better for the people that want the challenge, and that's why the level scaling is a nice feature. But because the scaling is forced, and not optional, it makes it SO much worse for the people that didn't want more challenge than they can handle.

If the scaling were optional, it would provide the exact same benefit to the first group that it does currently, without taking anything away from the second group.

Exactly.

Elsonso · November 2014

Divinius wrote: »

If the scaling were optional, it would provide the exact same benefit to the first group that it does currently, without taking anything away from the second group

I think that the term "optional" is wrong. I think that the dungeon scaling should be scalable. They must have, by now, a scaling value that they use to set the initial difficultly when entering the dungeon.

What I want is not a disable system, I want a system where I can choose how I want scaling to look on a slider. It would not turn off the scaling, but at one end it would significantly reduce the scaling and at the other end it would significantly increase the scaling, up to a maximum level. In the middle would be where it is today.

OrangeTheCat · November 2014

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

or am i misunderstanding this?

Not everyone plays the game to make an optimized build that will prevail solo against everything. There are Heavy Armor Sorcerers out there for instance. They choose this build because that's what they want or it fits their RP or its what they played in the Single Player games.

i am a nightblade duel wield stamina build rouge type, so,
Trust me, i hate the scaling now and i probly wont be able to survive.
i to waited untill i was vet6 to beat molag bal. i hate to admit that and yes im embarrased about it but truth is my nightblade just couldnt survive manimarco and the molag ball till i was strong enough.
with this scaling i would never make it tho, and thats a fact.

You are right. Besting Molag Bal as a DW medium wearing NB is tough. So I took him down, at level, with a resto staff. The only time I ever used a staff on my NB. You do what you have to do.

zhevon · November 2014

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

It's impossible to kite the mobs because the quest fails whenever the character exceeds what is a fairly short leash (plus there are neighboring mobs that respawn too quickly too effectively clear out an area even if there wasnt this leash), so it is necessary to basically stand and fight... but, with the scaling and other changes, the character can't DPS the mobs down quickly enough or heal through the damage, and doesn't have enough magicka to fight through the multiple waves.

<snip>

It's like Doshia (at release; not the current one) all over again... only now players can't even out-level a difficult quest to beat it.

I don't know of which quest you speak - but its one of my annoyances about some of the combat mechanics/setups. Kiting should be a viable option; it might be cheesy but it is a legit tactic. That was one of my complaints about Doisha (before she was nerfed to oblivion) is that kiting was not always possible depending on the particular faction - if she was drawn to far from her "home" she would reset including full healing.

BBSooner · November 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Since the patch, one of my alts has been stuck on a quest that I previously beat relatively easily on other alts (ones I've deleted) back at release. For two days, this character -- a heavy armor wearing Templar with a fire-enhanced two-handed sword -- has been getting its butt kicked at the phase of the quest PRECEDING the boss. I actually completely replaced all my armor and my sword because the other gear was so thoroughly damaged that it wasn't economical to repair it.

It's not just scaling, it's also the other changes that have been made. The particular quest spawns mobs in waves (always two melee types and one ranged magic type) and the character is hard pressed to survive a single wave, much less multiple waves. The waves come too quickly after each other to heal inbetween waves.

It's impossible to kite the mobs because the quest fails whenever the character exceeds what is a fairly short leash (plus there are neighboring mobs that respawn too quickly too effectively clear out an area even if there wasnt this leash), so it is necessary to basically stand and fight... but, with the scaling and other changes, the character can't DPS the mobs down quickly enough or heal through the damage, and doesn't have enough magicka to fight through the multiple waves.

Like I indicated, I've done the quest before on level. It wasn't impossible before. Now it is. I've out-leveled it and that has made it even worse.

It's like Doshia (at release; not the current one) all over again... only now players can't even out-level a difficult quest to beat it.

It's takes some kind of unique arrogance to put out a system like this. I have to believe ZOS didn't test their changes very thoroughly [again], because certain builds have now been completely destroyed.

So, I've cancelled my subscription again. I play games for enjoyment, not for frustration. I'll give ESO another six months to get their heads out of their asses and then come back again. It seems like it takes that long for common sense to prevail in their development shop and realize that they aren't going to make money taking the path they're currently on.

Ironically, many players were very upset that they nerfed Doshia into Oblivion with patches.

If you're having trouble completing quests at level, that's your problem, not a design issue. If you have to overlevel quests to complete them, that's a strong indication that you have a bad build/playstyle, and thankfully, the new scaling forces people to come to terms with that before they hit VR14.

Agreed. They took a quest that took a little forethought (Doshia) and destroyed the fight enough to where newer players rarely even realize they fought a boss.

There are a ton of player resources for strategies/suggestions. I wish that's what players sought instead of "making it easier".