"Forward Camps will no longer be sold by Merchants in Cyrodiil."

Enodoc · November 2014

I'm surprised they would just get rid of them completely, considering how important they were to the way they wanted PvP to work; maybe they're doing a major revamp of them and will re-release them with the Imperial City?

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

faernaa wrote: »

Inconveniencing? What did they do to you? They are mostly harmess for zergs and living habitat between alesia and drake.

Who said they did anything to me?

Does my pointing out that ZOS likely doesn't care about duelers make me a villain?

Am I required to have any level of interest about their activity aside from the occasional reference on the forums?

Soris · November 2014

stop trolling me please

Guppet · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Also, I suspect that this wasn't advertised ahead of time due to the fact they didn't want players to try to hoard camps in preparation of the patch.

It is advertised ahead of the patch for us Europeans though!!

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

faernaa wrote: »

stop trolling me please

You call that response trolling?

That's an honest response. Trolling would involve images and mockery, neither of which that last post contained.

Guppet wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Also, I suspect that this wasn't advertised ahead of time due to the fact they didn't want players to try to hoard camps in preparation of the patch.

It is advertised ahead of the patch for us Europeans though!!

Yup. Kinda unfair, actually.

timidobserver · November 2014

I am all for this. I was into Cyrodil for a while, but the performance problems drove me out of it. I am convinced that this change will ultimately result in better performance.

-Large zerg battles will end quicker, which will reduce the amount of spike data being sent to the servers.
-It is now an even worse strat to send your entire population to take one keep, so there should be fewer people fighting at one place at the same time now.

Tripwyr · November 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

You have seen farming simulator , digger simulator , goat simulator...

Now ESO presents the walking simulator.

Incorrect. Horse riding simulator.

Except for those of us without imperial edition and lowbie toons.

Man I need to get to grinding gold and buying horses for my other alts that dont have one yet -.-

Ah now I see, this change was to increase Imperial Edition upgrades. Sneaky ZOS, sneaky.

Aoe_Barbecue · November 2014

This seems like a hasty change. I suppose we will have to see how it affects Cyrodiil to pass further judgment, however. Fights will have higher risks, but winning them will have more of a sense of permanency I suppose.

Guppet · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

faernaa wrote: »

stop trolling me please

You call that response trolling?

That's an honest response. Trolling would involve images and mockery, neither of which that last post contained.

Guppet wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Also, I suspect that this wasn't advertised ahead of time due to the fact they didn't want players to try to hoard camps in preparation of the patch.

It is advertised ahead of the patch for us Europeans though!!

Yup. Kinda unfair, actually.

Not in the slightest, we actually get messed over by all those hording them, so we cant play it properly till the stocks run out. Much better to have them just removed without warning.

Eucken · November 2014

well I can tell you the EU players are stacking up on camps as we speak

Juraigr · November 2014

Eucken wrote: »

well I can tell you the EU players are stacking up on camps as we speak

Spent 400k.on.em.got 1.5 mill to go lol

timidobserver · November 2014

Eucken wrote: »

well I can tell you the EU players are stacking up on camps as we speak

I am glad to be on NA. We had no warning, so we are quickly going to get to see the real impact of this change whether it be for the best or worst. It'll probably be December or January before EU runs out of Forward Camps lol.

Oughash · November 2014

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

This seems like a hasty change. I suppose we will have to see how it affects Cyrodiil to pass further judgment, however. Fights will have higher risks, but winning them will have more of a sense of permanency I suppose.

Agree with hasty -- people are very used to FC-based gameplay in Cyrodil. There will be much angst. Fights will be extremely risky, yes.

Perhaps they may consider in the future allowing respawns at resources around the keeps. That would add another strategic element to sieges.

Finally, combined with the oil-pot nerf, AP-earning speed has just been dramatically reduced.

Sharee · November 2014

Hmm... generally i welcome this as a step in the right direction. I just hope it won't stay as is without any further changes to keeps.

Because with these changes, defending your keeps from capture will be impossible - the time from when a keep shows as under attack on map to when it is capped is less than the time a sprinting 75% horse takes to cross the distance between keeps, even with retreating maneuver.

Aoe_Barbecue · November 2014

They should make walls and doors tougher I suppose.

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

Ishammael wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

This seems like a hasty change. I suppose we will have to see how it affects Cyrodiil to pass further judgment, however. Fights will have higher risks, but winning them will have more of a sense of permanency I suppose.

Agree with hasty -- people are very used to FC-based gameplay in Cyrodil. There will be much angst. Fights will be extremely risky, yes.

Perhaps they may consider in the future allowing respawns at resources around the keeps. That would add another strategic element to sieges.

Finally, combined with the oil-pot nerf, AP-earning speed has just been dramatically reduced.

I wouldn't be opposed to a 20 respawn limit at each resource per hour. This would give value to defenders reclaiming resources before a siege ends, so they could get some reinforcements.

Tintinabula · November 2014

you know what?..I think this is an awful idea BUT..it serves those people who used troll camps right you &^%$#@!*&^%$%&*ers..Now..sit in your own ^%$#@$% and play the game. LMAO

Once again the ZOS "dev team" is allowing the player base to dictate to them how to "develop the game". Ya'll just caved and gave in to the baddies who were using troll camps.

DisgracefulMind · November 2014

While I don't think it's a bad idea for forward camps to be removed, and I am not opposed to it at all, I think they made this decision entirely too fast. They should have waited until AoE cap removal, in my opinion before removing them. I also think they should consider adding certain spawn points and such after death, as it is going to be the biggest headache riding a horse back and forth across a map. Though, I am hoping for some interesting battles between keeps, and I'm sure this will reduce some problems in keep battles with lag. I'm a bit torn on the removal, tbh. I guess we'll all see the effects it has on Cyrodiil, though.

Oughash · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

This seems like a hasty change. I suppose we will have to see how it affects Cyrodiil to pass further judgment, however. Fights will have higher risks, but winning them will have more of a sense of permanency I suppose.

Agree with hasty -- people are very used to FC-based gameplay in Cyrodil. There will be much angst. Fights will be extremely risky, yes.

Perhaps they may consider in the future allowing respawns at resources around the keeps. That would add another strategic element to sieges.

Finally, combined with the oil-pot nerf, AP-earning speed has just been dramatically reduced.

I wouldn't be opposed to a 20 respawn limit at each resource per hour. This would give value to defenders reclaiming resources before a siege ends, so they could get some reinforcements.

Yeah that is a good idea. Also, like @Aoe_Barbecue‌ said, increasing the HP of walls by at least x2 is probably necessary to allow dead defenders to try to run back to the siege (which would, in turn, force the attackers to consider assigning a force to patrol the possible overland return routes).

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

This seems like a hasty change. I suppose we will have to see how it affects Cyrodiil to pass further judgment, however. Fights will have higher risks, but winning them will have more of a sense of permanency I suppose.

Agree with hasty -- people are very used to FC-based gameplay in Cyrodil. There will be much angst. Fights will be extremely risky, yes.

Perhaps they may consider in the future allowing respawns at resources around the keeps. That would add another strategic element to sieges.

Finally, combined with the oil-pot nerf, AP-earning speed has just been dramatically reduced.

I wouldn't be opposed to a 20 respawn limit at each resource per hour. This would give value to defenders reclaiming resources before a siege ends, so they could get some reinforcements.

Yeah that is a good idea. Also, like @Aoe_Barbecue‌ said, increasing the HP of walls by at least x2 is probably necessary to allow dead defenders to try to run back to the siege (which would, in turn, force the attackers to consider assigning a force to patrol the possible overland return routes).

There are things I'm definitely looking forward to with this change --

Milegates/Bridges: No more dropping an FC on one side of it and then pounding it down as the defenders have further to run back from the keep.

Flag/Breach Defense: There will now be breathers if you put a good, hard wipe on the opposing force when trying to enter the keep or hit the flags. This is a good thing. Having to sit there for hours at a time, playing perfectly, without failing once (in comparison to unlimited failure attempts for the zerg) was ridiculous. There has to be a failure state for offensive attempts, especially when one side has fewer players (like late at night, or before reinforcements can arrive). Previously attackers essentially had unlimited retries and defenders could not fail once.

Tentaporting/BloodGating: This needed to have never been a thing.

Resource Farming: Yup, as guilty of it as the next guild. At the same time, it's not a very high state of play. You're intentionally pug stomping and you know it. It's much, much harder to do now.

Zerg Rush: No more killing the enemy, then suddenly... TENT! and then they all slam you again with full resources while you have none. On Saturday near Arrius Farm, while DC was trying to hit the keep, we back capped the farm, destroyed their tent, and because there's a flat spot nearby that doesn't count as being on the resource, we took three full tents worth of opponents (they kept dropping them and they'd get used up) to dislodge us from the flag. Just throwing bodies into the meat grinder, but it was enough to eventually flip the resource back to DC. Utterly ridiculous play style.

Oughash · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

This seems like a hasty change. I suppose we will have to see how it affects Cyrodiil to pass further judgment, however. Fights will have higher risks, but winning them will have more of a sense of permanency I suppose.

Agree with hasty -- people are very used to FC-based gameplay in Cyrodil. There will be much angst. Fights will be extremely risky, yes.

Perhaps they may consider in the future allowing respawns at resources around the keeps. That would add another strategic element to sieges.

Finally, combined with the oil-pot nerf, AP-earning speed has just been dramatically reduced.

I wouldn't be opposed to a 20 respawn limit at each resource per hour. This would give value to defenders reclaiming resources before a siege ends, so they could get some reinforcements.

Yeah that is a good idea. Also, like @Aoe_Barbecue‌ said, increasing the HP of walls by at least x2 is probably necessary to allow dead defenders to try to run back to the siege (which would, in turn, force the attackers to consider assigning a force to patrol the possible overland return routes).

There are things I'm definitely looking forward to with this change --

Milegates/Bridges: No more dropping an FC on one side of it and then pounding it down as the defenders have further to run back from the keep.

Flag/Breach Defense: There will now be breathers if you put a good, hard wipe on the opposing force when trying to enter the keep or hit the flags. This is a good thing. Having to sit there for hours at a time, playing perfectly, without failing once (in comparison to unlimited failure attempts for the zerg) was ridiculous. There has to be a failure state for offensive attempts, especially when one side has fewer players (like late at night, or before reinforcements can arrive). Previously attackers essentially had unlimited retries and defenders could not fail once.

Tentaporting/BloodGating: This needed to have never been a thing.

Resource Farming: Yup, as guilty of it as the next guild. At the same time, it's not a very high state of play. You're intentionally pug stomping and you know it. It's much, much harder to do now.

Zerg Rush: No more killing the enemy, then suddenly... TENT! and then they all slam you again with full resources while you have none. On Saturday near Arrius Farm, while DC was trying to hit the keep, we back capped the farm, destroyed their tent, and because there's a flat spot nearby that doesn't count as being on the resource, we took three full tents worth of opponents (they kept dropping them and they'd get used up) to dislodge us from the flag. Just throwing bodies into the meat grinder, but it was enough to eventually flip the resource back to DC. Utterly ridiculous play style.

All great things that I hope pan out.

Would like to add:
1. TTK will increase quite a bit. Because people will recognize the value of staying alive, they will choose much more defense sets. Watch for huge influx of Covenant/Dominion/Pact gear, Whitestrakes, Footmans, etc. This will be a good thing.

1.5. Watch for many more defense skills on player bars.

2. Bows will become VERY prevalent (queue bad Legolas references). Being able to stand-off in any fight is extremely important since the price for death is now much higher.

edit: grammar.

Haxnschwammer · November 2014

I Wonder if FC are gone now are Oblivions' Foe sets demanded more?
Templar have 50% chance to get a soul gem back after rez, and OF set gives 2 gems... need to test that tomorrow...

frozywozy · November 2014

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

This seems like a hasty change. I suppose we will have to see how it affects Cyrodiil to pass further judgment, however. Fights will have higher risks, but winning them will have more of a sense of permanency I suppose.

Agree with hasty -- people are very used to FC-based gameplay in Cyrodil. There will be much angst. Fights will be extremely risky, yes.

Perhaps they may consider in the future allowing respawns at resources around the keeps. That would add another strategic element to sieges.

Finally, combined with the oil-pot nerf, AP-earning speed has just been dramatically reduced.

I wouldn't be opposed to a 20 respawn limit at each resource per hour. This would give value to defenders reclaiming resources before a siege ends, so they could get some reinforcements.

Yeah that is a good idea. Also, like @Aoe_Barbecue‌ said, increasing the HP of walls by at least x2 is probably necessary to allow dead defenders to try to run back to the siege (which would, in turn, force the attackers to consider assigning a force to patrol the possible overland return routes).

Milegates/Bridges: No more dropping an FC on one side of it and then pounding it down as the defenders have further to run back from the keep.

This is definitely going to be an advantage for AD because it's alot faster to ride from Alessia to the bridge than it is to ride from Sejanus to the bridge.

Sallington · November 2014

Good. Blood porting always made me feel dirty.

And now soul gems are actually useful.

Antirob · November 2014

Zos i love you. so who do i send the cakae to. @ZOS_TristanK‌ @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

dzugarueb17_ESO · November 2014

Horrible change, just horrible. Melee - ruined. Glass cannons - ruined. PVPing without a guild/group - ruined (obv nobody will res you). Being in a full raid mindlessly following the crown and mashing 1 button - mandatory.

Why, why don't just add the timer to respawn? Go get a beer is not fun - riding through the same woods over and over and over and over and over IS?

Sallington · November 2014

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

Horrible change, just horrible. Melee - ruined. Glass cannons - ruined. PVPing without a guild/group - ruined (obv nobody will res you). Being in a full raid mindlessly following the crown and mashing 1 button - mandatory.

Why, why don't just add the timer to respawn? Go get a beer is not fun - riding through the same woods over and over and over and over and over IS?

Num Lock
Get a beer
?
Profit

Agrippa_Invisus · November 2014

frozywozy wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

This seems like a hasty change. I suppose we will have to see how it affects Cyrodiil to pass further judgment, however. Fights will have higher risks, but winning them will have more of a sense of permanency I suppose.

Agree with hasty -- people are very used to FC-based gameplay in Cyrodil. There will be much angst. Fights will be extremely risky, yes.

Perhaps they may consider in the future allowing respawns at resources around the keeps. That would add another strategic element to sieges.

Finally, combined with the oil-pot nerf, AP-earning speed has just been dramatically reduced.

I wouldn't be opposed to a 20 respawn limit at each resource per hour. This would give value to defenders reclaiming resources before a siege ends, so they could get some reinforcements.

Yeah that is a good idea. Also, like @Aoe_Barbecue‌ said, increasing the HP of walls by at least x2 is probably necessary to allow dead defenders to try to run back to the siege (which would, in turn, force the attackers to consider assigning a force to patrol the possible overland return routes).

Milegates/Bridges: No more dropping an FC on one side of it and then pounding it down as the defenders have further to run back from the keep.

This is definitely going to be an advantage for AD because it's alot faster to ride from Alessia to the bridge than it is to ride from Sejanus to the bridge.

We have the advantage at the Chalman milegate now.

I'd mention the Ash milegate, but we all know no PVP happens in that corridor of the map.

Magdalina · November 2014

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

I Wonder if FC are gone now are Oblivions' Foe sets demanded more?
Templar have 50% chance to get a soul gem back after rez, and OF set gives 2 gems... need to test that tomorrow...

Technically one as one soulgem is still consumed during the res, and it has 4 mins cooldown, iirc. But yeah, it's a nice set to use in Cyro, a friend of mine farms soulgems there xD

Antirob · November 2014

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

I can't believe this change is happening. Incredibly bad news.

Even now, PvP is an expensive way to play because you need potions, equipment and soul gems. Now you will need even more soul gems.

Zergs and trains will benefit tremendously - it's easy for them to rezz each other, and relatively cheaper, too.

Small groups defending a keep from a big group will suffer greatly since they can't keep coming back - there was already punishment there for those who died since it still took time to get back inside the keep from the forward camp. Is it not more fun to be able to have 5 vs 25 fights, than not having them?

Dueling will be even harder now, trying to make it possible for members of all three factions.

The forwards camps are a disease that has been lifted from ESO and will improve pvp. Dueling will be fine they just need to bring soul gems. Also small group and gank squads will be usefull again since they cant just respawn across the maps or near 100k times at a resource or something.