They ALMOST fixed Werewolf in 1.5; but 1.5.1 reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate.

motorsport71b14_ESO · November 2014

From Patch Notes 1.5.1:
"Reduced the duration of the werewolf Ultimate."

I have two Werewolf characters. I can play them on 1.4.7 and enjoy them thoroughly. I like the new abilities this patch has to offer. But as soon as they reduced the duration of Werewolf form it may be a deal breaker. I could, before 1.5.1, enter a public dungeon and make it all the way through in Werewolf form with smart tactics. I would rather them keep the original Ultimate duration and leave the Devour timer at it's previous duration. What fun is werewolf form now if you can't keep it more than a few seconds? Even with Feral Pounce and quicker Devour timer it is impossible to maintain my form long enough to have fun. The timer also makes it impossible to enjoy in Cyrodiil at all.(And i know Cyrodiil isn't really a place for Werewolves, but I enjoy trying

)

timidobserver · November 2014

I have to agree that out of all of the stuff in this game that needs a nerf, WW isn't it lol.

Erock25 · November 2014

They said in some developer interview that they have severely buffed werewolf on the unreleased 1.5.2 which will be hitting Live next week. In the current 1.5.1 version, werewolf is not a DPS buff for a well designed stamina character. If they have in fact buffed werewolf DPS significantly for 1.5.2, I am fine with the shortened duration.

TheBull · November 2014

How much was it reduced?

I pray that the transformation bug is fixed.

Thejollygreenone · November 2014

TheBull wrote: »

How much was it reduced?

I pray that the transformation bug is fixed.

It's at 30 seconds now if I remember correctly, it was no more than 50 seconds before.

As to the transformation bug, if you're thinking of the one where you will get all your ultimate drained but not transform if you try to preform certain actions mid-transformation, then no. It's not fixed :-/

However they did seem to reduce the duration of the transformation time in general. It seems a lot quicker.

motorsport71b14_ESO · November 2014

It is around only half as long as current 1.4.7. The Devour timer being reduced from 20 seconds to 7 seconds is like 115% faster, so i would guess the Werewolf form was given a comparable reduction of 115% or so. I don't run Addons on PTS so i can't be exactly sure. You can't kill fast enough to make up for the timer differences. They shouldn't touch the timers from 1.4.7 at all. Werewolf is a style of gameplay, and not really useful in PVP so they shouldn't Nerf it but embrace it.

Thejollygreenone · November 2014

motorsport71b14_ESO wrote: »

It is around only half as long as current 1.4.7. The Devour timer being reduced from 20 seconds to 7 seconds is like 115% faster, so i would guess the Werewolf form was given a comparable reduction of 115% or so. I don't run Addons on PTS so i can't be exactly sure. You can't kill fast enough to make up for the timer differences. They shouldn't touch the timers from 1.4.7 at all. Werewolf is a style of gameplay, and not really useful in PVP so they shouldn't Nerf it but embrace it.

Can't quite call it a nerf til 1.5.2 drops with some apparently significant damage increases to werewolf. If it's nerfed in one area, but buffed more in another, I'd call it an overall buff ^.^

Although don't get me wrong, I probably would prefer it if werewolf were an alternate playstyle rather than a 30+second burst of savagery. I'd say both are fair options, though.

biodragon · November 2014

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

...

Although don't get me wrong, I probably would prefer it if werewolf were an alternate playstyle rather than a 30+second burst of savagery. I'd say both are fair options, though.

No, they are not fair: First one makes you werewolf, second one - just a crazy monkey... or cat... or lizard...

motorsport71b14_ESO · November 2014

The thing about the new timers is they make using the Werewolf harder to manage in dungeons and areas with a high population of baddies. Unless the 1.5.2 change in DPS allows you to drop something almost instantly you can't work with the timers to kill, feed, and keep going. Especially when some creatures are harder to drop than others. I would rather have a potentially longer lasting werewolf than a burst since the ultimate cost is higher than most. Why have "Hircine's Bounty" healing ability if the form won't really last long in 'real world' combat fighting tougher creatures like trolls? Who wants to waste that kind of ultimate cost on one creature?

I realize it uses an Ultimate Slot; but it isn't a typical Ultimate ability: Most players want to play as the Werewolf swinging their arms back and forth and being savage. I am member of a Werewolf guild and the majority of members joined it for the fun of the form, not what it has to offer the player in the way of passives like the more popular vampire. A bonus to stamina regeneration in humanoid form doesn't scream "Yay, I want to be a Werewolf" like the vampires passives. The vampires Batswarm Ultimate, even though it is under continuous adjustment and scrutiny, is still appealing.

As I see it (after the glitches are fixed) the final piece to the werewolf puzzle will be the timers. That will make or break them. Who wants to wait for a lot of ultimate to accumulate when the Werewolf form ability is short lived? I feel the Ultimate cost is very acceptable and reasonable, but with the reduction of time in form it feels like too high a cost. To reduce the ultimate cost the werewolf form further wouldn't work; it would almost feel like temporary weapon swapping at that point.

Erock25 · November 2014

motorsport71b14_ESO wrote: »

The thing about the new timers is they make using the Werewolf harder to manage in dungeons and areas with a high population of baddies. Unless the 1.5.2 change in DPS allows you to drop something almost instantly you can't work with the timers to kill, feed, and keep going. Especially when some creatures are harder to drop than others. I would rather have a potentially longer lasting werewolf than a burst since the ultimate cost is higher than most. Why have "Hircine's Bounty" healing ability if the form won't really last long in 'real world' combat fighting tougher creatures like trolls? Who wants to waste that kind of ultimate cost on one creature?

I realize it uses an Ultimate Slot; but it isn't a typical Ultimate ability: Most players want to play as the Werewolf swinging their arms back and forth and being savage. I am member of a Werewolf guild and the majority of members joined it for the fun of the form, not what it has to offer the player in the way of passives like the more popular vampire. A bonus to stamina regeneration in humanoid form doesn't scream "Yay, I want to be a Werewolf" like the vampires passives. The vampires Batswarm Ultimate, even though it is under continuous adjustment and scrutiny, is still appealing.

As I see it (after the glitches are fixed) the final piece to the werewolf puzzle will be the timers. That will make or break them. Who wants to wait for a lot of ultimate to accumulate when the Werewolf form ability is short lived? I feel the Ultimate cost is very acceptable and reasonable, but with the reduction of time in form it feels like too high a cost. To reduce the ultimate cost the werewolf form further wouldn't work; it would almost feel like temporary weapon swapping at that point.

ZOS has to walk a fine line, because Werewolf has to be powerful enough that people want to use it besides a roleplaying factor, but not powerful enough that it is the defacto-must-have for PVE DPS situation as a melee toon. Let's say in 1.5.2 it is 125% more sustained DPS (including transform time) than in human form. If you put a 50 second timer on that, it is basically a necessity. A 30 second timer makes it good but not mandatory.

motorsport71b14_ESO · November 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

motorsport71b14_ESO wrote: »

The thing about the new timers is they make using the Werewolf harder to manage in dungeons and areas with a high population of baddies. Unless the 1.5.2 change in DPS allows you to drop something almost instantly you can't work with the timers to kill, feed, and keep going. Especially when some creatures are harder to drop than others. I would rather have a potentially longer lasting werewolf than a burst since the ultimate cost is higher than most. Why have "Hircine's Bounty" healing ability if the form won't really last long in 'real world' combat fighting tougher creatures like trolls? Who wants to waste that kind of ultimate cost on one creature?

I realize it uses an Ultimate Slot; but it isn't a typical Ultimate ability: Most players want to play as the Werewolf swinging their arms back and forth and being savage. I am member of a Werewolf guild and the majority of members joined it for the fun of the form, not what it has to offer the player in the way of passives like the more popular vampire. A bonus to stamina regeneration in humanoid form doesn't scream "Yay, I want to be a Werewolf" like the vampires passives. The vampires Batswarm Ultimate, even though it is under continuous adjustment and scrutiny, is still appealing.

As I see it (after the glitches are fixed) the final piece to the werewolf puzzle will be the timers. That will make or break them. Who wants to wait for a lot of ultimate to accumulate when the Werewolf form ability is short lived? I feel the Ultimate cost is very acceptable and reasonable, but with the reduction of time in form it feels like too high a cost. To reduce the ultimate cost the werewolf form further wouldn't work; it would almost feel like temporary weapon swapping at that point.

ZOS has to walk a fine line, because Werewolf has to be powerful enough that people want to use it besides a roleplaying factor, but not powerful enough that it is the defacto-must-have for PVE DPS situation as a melee toon. Let's say in 1.5.2 it is 125% more sustained DPS (including transform time) than in human form. If you put a 50 second timer on that, it is basically a necessity. A 30 second timer makes it good but not mandatory.

If you build a "PVE DPS melee toon" chances are pretty good you're dealing a lot of damage. Would the werewolf DPS adjustment stack on all of that toons overall stats? If that toon, for instance, is wearing two pieces of Jewelry with a "Monumental Glyph of Increase Physical Damage" and those buffs (as well as other buffs that give cost reduction/damage increase to melee weapons, or stamina cost reduction/ stamina regen) were removed while in Werewolf form it would become less desirable to a strictly melee class or tank because the attack damage is comparable or less then the new werewolf DPS, right? How many melee builds don't use weapon enchantments to up their stats?

Lykanus · November 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

ZOS has to walk a fine line, because Werewolf has to be powerful enough that people want to use it besides a roleplaying factor, but not powerful enough that it is the defacto-must-have for PVE DPS situation as a melee toon. Let's say in 1.5.2 it is 125% more sustained DPS (including transform time) than in human form. If you put a 50 second timer on that, it is basically a necessity. A 30 second timer makes it good but not mandatory.

It needs to be playable in groups&dungeons trials and maybe even in PvP, with 30 secs its impossible no matter how good it is, except its extreme overpowered, but then it is a must have for every dps and _then_ it comes to your situation.

If its "just" good then i can tell you i wont ever think about werewolf as an ultimate choice.
Downsides:
Fixed Skillset.
Melee-Only.
Need to spec a full skill line.
Poison weakness.
Silverbolt/Fighters Guild.
Timer stressing.
5 abilities now that you cant use reasonable use all in a short duration.
Soon justice system maybe.

If its "only" a good dps buff you even cant plan /layout your character for werewolf- you need to plan as human build full.
So i can tell you what i would choose: a free, unproblematic good ultimate that doesnt stresses, doesnt have downsides, doesnt weakens me and has the full flexibility in terms of which skills i use in conjunction with that ultimate.
That is far superior.
Except for the case that the WW dmg is such high that your problem comes up that its the best melee dps ultimate you can imagine ...that everyone needs to take. In all other cases however every other ultimate would be better choice because its easier,better and fits for sure into your group.

What absolutely needs to be done is to make the werewolf playable as a skilline with a full fixed playerbuild, the only way that it is playable in groups all the time, does around the damage the others can do (doesnt needs to be higher then) but doesnt stresses the player or the group, the damage and the sustainability of the WW should come from an intelligent use of the 5 active WW abilities from the player - not automatic dps buff by pressing the ultimate- and it should be accepted in groups as melee dps character because adds something useful.
It would still have enough downsides - however it then would be at least a useful and playable style that makes fun in ESO. Currently its just a unfun stressy time and the new abilities arent useable because in that short duration you wont need them anyway. no chance to use in group or pvp, so the only part it could theoretically be used is in solo pve.

risen1981 · November 2014

i have to agree, i'm afraid that it will end up OP just to make up for all the downsides, i mean 22 skillpoints and 400 ulti cost compressed into a 30sec buff must be a pretty dam good ultimate.
It must be treated as a skill line not a ultimate, this will break it

Ommamar · November 2014

Know what is interesting is that it is treated as a curse in a lot of the quests. Yet it is a skill to be developed for players. I am not against it just think both Vampires and WW should be presented different in the world.