4 New AVA Skills Coming in 1.6 Including a Possible Zerg Buster

Forestd16b14_ESO · October 2014

Uuuhhhhh I see this as a dual edge sword. It can be a answer cause every one doesn't wanna die from a bomb. But it can be the new spam skill like fire-ring-bats every one throwing it on every one making every one scatter around getting no where in sieges. Also it can not be a answer cause with every one running healing staffs spamming healing springs left and right only way it can be effective is if it does decent amount of damage but like a ton of OP damage. There's also it's suicide morph where the caster explodes dealing AoE around them.... I see that not being as useful but it could be a fun/weird skills like lightweight beast trap from the fighters guild skills. Doesn't seem useful but more effective than players know. Some tank could use it while he gets the horde of the zerg focus on him/her and while they try to kill them they explode dealing damage while the archers and mages cast there spells and arrows at a weakened target. It can also be useful in PvE too for tanks. While the monsters attack the tank they cast it 4 seconds later the monsters take damage either dieing or weakening for the DPS to finishes off the enemy. I see myself personal using the suicide morph for tanking in PvE but not in PvP cause I'm sure alot of other players be using it.

Durham · October 2014

I dont blame the zerg ballers for playing the way they want to and earning drastically more aps... However my guild has refused this tactic due to amount of fun we are having in this game, playing a different way.. and staying away from the lag zerg.. However APs are lower as most of us are 14-19 atm...

Zerg balling has hurt pvp in this game seriously bad .. the lag they have created makes the game unplayable which in turn caused a bleeding of pvp subscriptions... I dont blame players using this ...People will always take the easiest most efficient way of farming APs...

I blame ZOS for waiting to long to solve this issue.. This should have been done 3 months ago not 3 months in the future...To me this is a PVP crises that has been going on for way to long... I think any game that allows players to reduce the performance of servers and make the game unplayable for the vast majority of the gamers is failing in its commitment to the subscription based playerbase.... This is not something that does not need to wait till 1.6 this needs to be fixed now.. Dont worry about breaking something its already broke..

In closing I would like to say I like this game.. I like openess of the charactors I like the design of the game please fix this ... My guild would love to fight next to keeps so we can get those sometimes increadible ticks... Howver what fun is it to get stuck in animations... abilities never going off... invisiable ults like standard rendering 5 secs to late.....

Durham · October 2014

FluffiestOne wrote: »

Let me get this straight, to fix the zergballs they will add an ability that has no aoe cap? But... the aoe cap gives

Hate player based AOE instant damage period .....requires no target nothing should be all dots instead burst dps..

Yolokin_Swagonborn · October 2014

We had a great zerg buster. It was called oils. Removing ground based oils lessens defensive advantage in keeps. Remove the AoE caps before nerfing oils (for no good reason) and creating redundant stronger versions of existing skills. Creating a skill that kills people if they group too closely is not a fix, its a band-aid.

A smart group will find a way to work around this skill even if they cant purge it.

Edit: Just watched the video where they explained the new skill. LOL at 59:13

twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/b/581386909

One morph makes it explode if anyone purges, but the other one....

The other one makes you explode and do massive AoE damage.... So we have a powerful AoE with potentially no cap that you can cast on yourself then dive into a group.

Yeah that's not going to get exploited by zerg balls. Everyone casts barrier, then casts magicka explode on self and dives into defenders all while spamming impulse and batwarm. If you time it right, the defenders will all be dead before their magic bomb on your zergball even goes off.

Teargrants · October 2014

All hail the new golden age of the batpulse bomb train! So sayeth Dee Tick.

GreyPilgrim · October 2014

Seriously, just going to say that this will either be a disaster, or completely ineffective... maybe both...

I mean really? You're going to fix a problem with everyone using the same overly effective AOE spamming tactic by...

Introducing a new AOE that everyone can spam...

Some questions:

1) Won't this AOE have to be ranged to be used to break up zergs?

2) If its ranged, wont players use it to bomb defenders standing on walls who will then blow up everybody on top of the wall defending the keep? It's already ridiculously easy to kill defenders on walls, and now we'll be able to clear whole groups off by bombing anyone who gets close to the edge.

3) Wont this be used in conjunction with caltrops and oils to make massing up to get through wall breaches even more difficult? If they haven't been cleared by the aforementioned tactic, wont defenders all constantly drop bombs on any group that tries to rush a breach? Even more alarming, this will simply replace oils as a way to stand in the corner of an inner keep, and as players rush the flag, you just bomb them all and watch them explode. Rinse and repeat. Will any keep be takeable, I wonder?

4) wont combining this with caltrops become the next fotm tactic? Seriously a few people pop out of stealth and drop caltrops on a group, then bomb half of them and watch everyone either blow up before getting out of the snare, or burn up their stam dodge rolling and become instant fodder for CC's. Can't wait to try it...

5) Won't people start using these to nerf escape abilities? I can just see jacking someone from stealth, and then they immediately plant a bomb on me so that if i try to stealth again and roll out, I just blow up and reveal myself.

6) If its mitigated by spell resist, won't this just push even more players into robe and stick builds that maximize spell resist? Seriously, unless its powerful enough to kill EVERYONE (which would be totally OP), this will just further encourage people to all have the same build that maximizes resistance.

7) If its Armor mitigated, won't everyone will simply switch to heavy armor? Same result. It won't break up the zerg and will simply push players even further into all having the same build. If its armor mitigated, it might be a different build than we see now, but seriously an ability like this could make any build that's squishy and relies on mobility or healers completely unviable, as there will be people blowing up all over the place. And if its not powerful enough to kill weaker defensive builds, it won't be effective at stopping tank and heal zerg trains. Either way, fail.

and finally

8) why do I have the bad feeling that ZOS hasn't really though about any of these questions?

@ZOS seriously the problem of zergs is not just that they're too effective, it's that EVERYONE has access to the weapons and armor that make it possible, so everyone ends up with the same build, no matter what class they are, and gameplay devolves into boring zerging where everyone all does the same thing. And your solution to that is to introduce yet another overpowered AOE that everyone can use? It might bust up zergs, but it will do nothing to diversify gameplay.

I can't even begin to describe how baffling that is. Maybe you should just figure out that you made AOE's in this game too cheap, powerful, and universally available, and think about how you're going to fix that so that diverse play-styles are actually worth using. Otherwise, I can't wait to see how this plays out... I'm guessing it will be a bomb that backfires...

thelordoffelines · October 2014

Great. Devote time and resources to create a new, potentially game breaking game mechanic all because some people refuse to stop going into the room with the guy oil farming everyone.

Keron · October 2014

Wait and see. If it is unpurgeable, does low damage on targeted person (maybe 100 damage) but non target capped damage to everyone in a 10m radius that is unresistable and bypasses shields and sufficiently high (e.g. 2000 damage) but with a 4 second delay and with a visual indicator that is visible as long as you are not in the middle of a spring/bat/ring blob, you can have a usable skill.

That's a lot of ifs, and still will be a pain with inattentive scrubs on the wall, but it gives you the chance to get away before blowing up the defenders (that are forced to hug due to wall space).

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Yeah that's not going to get exploited by zerg balls. Everyone casts barrier, then casts magicka explode on self and dives into defenders all while spamming impulse and batwarm. If you time it right, the defenders will all be dead before their magic bomb on your zergball even goes off.

Possible solution: Have the suicide morph also do friendly fire and kill yourself in the process. This skill could be built in a way to not make it usefull for zergballs. Here's to hoping they manage that.

Sanct16 · October 2014

How about something like:
"Does 200 Damage to every enemy in a radius of 6 meters (based on the player the skill is casted on). Damage is increased by 100 for each enemy in this area."

Means, if you cast it on someone in a bombgroup, there will be maybe 10 more guys in range, so it does 200 + 10*100 = 1200 damage.
If they all ball up on a flag, it would hit maybe 20 of them, so 200 + 20*100 = 2200.

If you cast it on a small group of defenders at some wall, it might hit 4 ppl, so it would do 200 + 4*100 = 600 damage.

Keron · October 2014

Sanct16 wrote: »

How about something like:
"Does 200 Damage to every enemy in a radius of 6 meters (based on the player the skill is casted on). Damage is increased by 100 for each enemy in this area."

Means, if you cast it on someone in a bombgroup, there will be maybe 10 more guys in range, so it does 200 + 10*100 = 1200 damage.
If they all ball up on a flag, it would hit maybe 20 of them, so 200 + 20*100 = 2200.

If you cast it on a small group of defenders at some wall, it might hit 4 ppl, so it would do 200 + 4*100 = 600 damage.

Also may work. But from my experience, in a heavy defense battle, the groups on the walls are much more dense due to the little real estate available. Especially those niches on the parapet that are so favored by the snipers.

EDIT: Radius also needs to be larger than that of the PB or ground targeted healing spells.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 2014

Feel sorry for the guys running in through a breach if you cast it on one in the front, root them with catapult then they explode on their friends running in behind lol wonder if it stacks on a single person

Maulkin · October 2014

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Feel sorry for the guys running in through a breach if you cast it on one in the front, root them with catapult then they explode on their friends running in behind lol wonder if it stacks on a single person

Nevermind the breach, what about flags? You can enter the breach in smaller numbers but you HAVE to bunch up on flags to change them. It's the only way they'll change.

Also there's usually oils being dropped around the flag, so any group will normally have a support/healer person pumping purge every few secs. I can see it now.

- [Group Leader]: We have to take the keep before reinforcements arrive, but I see plenty of oil up top. Jimmy can you go full Purge on this one?
- [Jimmy]: Sure man, I got your back.

group enters inner breach and heads for the flag. Oils start to pour

- [Jimmy]: *Purge*
- [Jimmy]: *Purge*
- [Jimmy]: *Purge*

a bomb is placed in a member of the group on the flag

- [Group Leader]: JIMMY! Don'___

**************B O O M***************

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 2014

Jimmy instantly kicked from group for being a casual ^

Maulkin · October 2014

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Jimmy instantly kicked from group for being a casual ^

If casual means he can't keep eyes on the animations on 15+ players, then we're all casuals.

I'd like to see how that plays out with lag too, when you have a bomb placed in you but the animation and sound won't play due to lag.

I can already guess some of the threads that will pop up afterwards.

Keron · October 2014

Poor Jimmy. He just thought about the greater good.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Jimmy instantly kicked from group for being a casual ^

If casual means he can't keep eyes on the animations on 15+ players, then we're all casuals.

Speak for yourself, some of us are professionals

How about cast it on the guards in the flag room and kill all the defenders

Maulkin · October 2014

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Jimmy instantly kicked from group for being a casual ^

If casual means he can't keep eyes on the animations on 15+ players, then we're all casuals.

Speak for yourself, some of us are professionals

How about cast it on the guards in the flag room and kill all the defenders

Duuuuude, that's evil!

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 2014

You'd hate to be that one guy who gets it cast on him as he goes in through the door of a keep XD

Draxys · October 2014

still working on new stuff when performance is so bad

Cody · October 2014

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

If it can be purged like Velicious Curse can be then it will only make it worse for everyone because the time for it to explode will be cut in half and then can be reapplied again.

However, many organized groups have purges going off so often i dont see this working on them.

there is a morph that makes it explode if it is purged.....

please read the description the owner of this thread provided.

david.haypreub18_ESO · October 2014

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

We had a great zerg buster. It was called oils.

Exactly. At the very moment Zergs dominate, they are nerfing one of the most effective counters to them... so that sometime in the future, after Zergs dominate even more for a while, they can introduce a bandaid that might counter zergs. WTF?

I'm really just not a fan of ZOS' slow and steady approach to balancing, and even less of a fan of their bandaids. They seem to do this all too often: instead of addressing the central problem, they introduce a new skill to put a bandaid on it. They are taking the same, conflicted, nonsensical apporach with Stamina build fixes (buffing bow and 2-handed while nerfing stealth damage), and with Heavy Armor fixes (not changing mitigation but just giving some resource return).

The fixes come too slowly, and don't address the central problems. Due to this, they are ineffective.

Rylana · October 2014

I want to be the bomb. I shall be known once this goes live as the bomb.

TSAR RYBOMBA

Gooey · October 2014

Really, this zerj buster wont do anything. What will people put on their aoe bar when they run with the zerj ball? The AoE with no cap... Genius thinking really, lets make a skill that is supposed to bust zerjes but makes zerjes that use the skill stronger...................................

Aoe_Barbecue · October 2014

I don't know why ZoS is so averse to just removing AoE caps flat while hardcapping ult generation per skill based on what it would generate off of six people. Their servers can't handle multiple zerg on zerg on zerg action as Thornblade proves every single day. So break up the action.

Sanct16 · October 2014

Gooey wrote: »

Really, this zerj buster wont do anything. What will people put on their aoe bar when they run with the zerj ball? The AoE with no cap... Genius thinking really, lets make a skill that is supposed to bust zerjes but makes zerjes that use the skill stronger...................................

We don't know what the skill will look like.Its a skill meant to counter zergs, so maybe it won't be effective unless you hit a tightly stacked group with it.

Dreyloch · October 2014

My take on this is sure. Put it in. But watch how you won't be able to get it cast on anyone in a zergball on the freakin' Keep Flag, because of the LAGgGgggGgg.

Need to fix that shite first before anything worthwhile is put in. Also...will DK's be able to reflect that? Muahahah, now THAT would be hilarious.

Sublime · October 2014

Dreyloch wrote: »

My take on this is sure. Put it in. But watch how you won't be able to get it cast on anyone in a zergball on the freakin' Keep Flag, because of the LAGgGgggGgg.

Need to fix that shite first before anything worthwhile is put in. Also...will DK's be able to reflect that? Muahahah, now THAT would be hilarious.

As far as I understood ZOS the lag and the zerg issues are closely linked, because the huge amount of AOE skills casted in a small area on a lot of people are causing the servers a lot of trouble.

So solving the zerg issue would also partially solve the lag issue.

AbraXuSeXile · October 2014

If this goes live, pretty sure it's R.I.P game or a full written apology from Zenimax stating they have no clue what they are doing.