Nestor wrote: »

Finesse has something to do with the amount of things you get an a drop. For example, I notice that if I use more skills, block, use a rotation, and, take damage that drops my health, I tend to get more in the drops than if I take out the mob quickly and efficiently. I have also noticed that it seems that if my health drops below 50% I tend to get more, but that could be RNG. As I have taken big health hits and not gotten much from the drops.

Now, if your grouped, then you should get the same drops (one would think anyway), but I have never compared my drops to others in the group.

Nestor wrote: »

Finesse has something to do with the amount of things you get an a drop. For example, I notice that if I use more skills, block, use a rotation, and, take damage that drops my health, I tend to get more in the drops than if I take out the mob quickly and efficiently. I have also noticed that it seems that if my health drops below 50% I tend to get more.

smosti wrote: »

So I've only just noticed this since using the addon which shows xp gains etc.

I play a NB and am currently in a dungeon. I use a lot of sneak/shadow and high crit hits.

I kill an enemy from behind in two shots and get 3xp.
I then wait for him to spawn and kill him front on and get 130xp.

I tested this multiple times.

So seems us NB's who play a heavy shadow/crit build are getting reemed by this.

Or is there some logical reason as to why they'd want to grant us shadow NB's only 3xp for a well planned kill?

EDIT:

DakotaCoty wrote: »

I believe there are a number of calculated variables in this:
The amount of HP
The type of monster

For example when I kill rats or dungeon monsters, I rarely get over 5-10 exp. Whereas a humanoid or skeleton my level will grant 130... Other than that, I haven't noticed experience being rewarded on how fast you kill it.

Well my test proves otherwise lol. Like i said...same enemy, same level. I crit killed him 2shots and got 3xp. Waited for the respawn. Engaged in combat...took maybe 7 shots and got 130xp. Wait for respawn. Crit killed...got 3xp.


EDIT:
It's been pointed out by @Avidus That the xp gain is based on "finese". check awesome post.

Avidus wrote: »

What you are experiencing is the Finesse system.
I agree that something should be altered in regards to quickly downing an opponent.
I mean the idea of the Finesse system is to be rewarded for your efficiency and skill in combat.
If I am to go up to my opponent and spam my DPS attack until they blow up and die, I will receive poor loot, and less experience.
If I take my time on that opponent, block their attacks, use all of my skills etc, I receive nicer loot and more experience.

During BETA I encountered the problem with my character being a 2H user focused on heavy hits. So I could drop an opponent in a couple of shots, but I was not benefited by doing this. However I experimented and slowly killed a tank opponent, making sure to do everything correctly. And the outcome was significantly better for me.

Now I will say, I love the finesse system, its great. It needs to be touched up though.
Unfortunately allowing 1 shot kills to provide the greatest outcome each time does not allow for equal play, and there are a number of negatives that come from this.
It does however need to be treated for what it is, an efficient kill.
I think the best solution is to complicate it even more.

Consider more circumstances.
- Enemy stats
- Player stats
- Player equipment
- Player and enemy direction of facing (Who is facing who, who has their back turned.)
- Priority of tactic (Should I block the power attack when I can kill the opponent before they finish it)
- Maximum DPS potential vs time taken to kill opponent.
- Maximum defensive potential vs successful defences.
- Number of abilities used.
- Skill priority (Is using all 5 abilities the best option if the best possible outcome is using the same 2 abilities several times in a row)

The list could go on but the Finesse system dictates I should have ended this post at least 2 paragraphs ago.

Awesome and very insightful post^^

However.... my tests show this "finese" system could be inconsistent for all.
I've tested the addon and can confim it is functioning correctly and showing the same character xp gain as the xp bar. Here are my test results.



Normal battle against a LVL 25 ogre with my level 28 bow.



Crouched critical against the same respawning ogre. Crouched and waited for the perfect moment to fire...



Same ogre and exact same method as test 1 but only 3xp????.....

NB's are at a disadvantage for critical kills. And it seems the "Finese" calculator is very inconsistent. I pretty much killed the ogre exactly the same way in test 1 and 3 but one grants 124xp and the other 3xp.

That is a HUGE discrepancy between the two.

Why should I only be awarded 3xp for a critical killl because i positioned myself perfectly and waited for the perfect moment to strike? How is that not finesse? If anything..that should have a bigger bonus multiplier then a hack and slash! But damn....I'd settle for the same xp as a hack and slash kill!

This system needs to be re assessed.

EDIT: Found an awesome test conducted by @KalecStromhir on page 2 of this thread. Sharing kills with other players will give you less xp. I guess this is to stop people who play in groups breezing their way to VR10 and leaving the single players behind. Not a bad idea. But! one problem I see with this is....what if you have randoms following you around the dungeon sniping into your hard worked for kills? lol

KalecStromhir wrote: »

Last test tonight. Lv 34 Trolls.
First kill I came in and help kill DW Attacks + Siphoning + Assassination
Second kill I started and someone joined in DW Attacks + Siphoning + Assassination / Bow Attacks + Shadow
Third kill is alone and only DW Attacks + Siphoning + Assassination
Forth kill alone DW Attacks + Siphoning + Assassination / Bow Attacks + Shadow

Litleheieb17_ESO wrote: »

Avidus wrote: »

I think you will find that helping another player yields better results than killing it by yourself. I find that consistently, IF somebody wants to test that please, just so we can rule that one out.

That scenario has been testet (in this thread), and result is that you get 66.67% of XP from a shared kill, regardless if you start the fight or join in.

Just tested and seems the xp is based on the amount of damage you deal as oposed to the other player. if you deal 50% damage each you are both awarded half the xp. If one player does the majority of damage..they get more xp then you. hmmmm

There's no way to be 100% certain on this though without being in party and asking the other person their xp gain.

Running through the dungeon and following a random and choosing when i attacked and I was getting different xp readings each time.

Needs to go under a controlled test to be certain


EDIT:



Okay so this is a test from the ogre dungeon. Killing the same 3 ogres over and over. However there seems to be inconsistency's in everything!

Ogre 1
Ogre 2
Ogre 3

Kill ogre 1
kill ogre 2
kill ogre 3
ogre 1 doesn't respawn
Ogre 2 spawns and I kill it
ogre 3 doesn't respawn
ogre 1 respawns and i kill it
ogre 2 doesn't respawn
ogre 3 respawns

*** me... this is beginning to be a lost cause. So many inconsistencies it's hard to get a proper test!

Okay what we know so far...

1. Xp based on finese
2. Getting help from others = less xp. How it's shared is based on the percentage of damage you do as opposed to the helper.
3. Spawns are inconsistent. Hard to get a reading if diminishing returns plays a factor in xp gain if you attack the same thing each time. I can confirm diminishing returns does not play a role if you attack 3 things over and over. You are given the appropriate xp each time it seems (if you can say the 3xp is due to my "finesse" in the kill)

So...i guess the only way we will ever know what's a factor in character xp gain is if ZOS gives us some insight into their system..

EDIT:

I've been questing and paying extreme attention to finese modifies and the xp and drops im geting.

This is my final conclusion on this topic.

xp gain is linked to how many hits and abilities you use...Period. Finese is the fancy word they've thrown in to make it seem all sophiscated and well thought through when in actual fact...it's a very simple system.

I've noticed the longer you stay in battle and the more abilities you throw at the enemy and the blocks and dodges you do..the higher your "finese" rating goes which directly affects your xp gain. It does not seem to take into consideration how well you fight. Rolling and stringing together an epic 4 ability combo gives the same finese rating as stringing together the same spammed ability 5 times.

This has a cap however. I think it's 15% increase in XP.




Moral of the story....want the best xp gains and the best chance of a decent drop? Try staying in combat longer and avoid killing your opponent off quickly.

Why we are only granted 3xp for 1-2shot crit kill still interests me. If the xp system is based on finesse... how come I'm given 3xp for a 1 shot but the base xp of killing that target is 124xp (example) when my finese is 0%? Should I not also receive the base xp of 124xp for the crit kill as oposed to 3xp?

I believe this to be a bug. I think the system is tricked into thinking that the fact that you caused so much damage and so swiftly killed the target....the system believes you are in a much lower zone then you should be.

Also...the fact that finesse is also directly linked to the quality of drop you receive concerns me. Why? Because a NB is known to be a DPS and quick finisher. Well I guess this also applies to other classe's playing a HIGH dps/crit build. SO...this means NB's mostly get a shitter loot then other classes.

But you make up for it by killing quicker meaning in the long run you get the same amount of total gold from selling loot?

Yes... but, that means NB's need more items to cover the same amount of gold meaning we run out of invent space quicker because we have a bunch of grey items which do not stack which nets 500g whereas a different class who took their sweet ass time to get the kill looted 3 blue items which nets them 500g but only takes 3 space!

Okay screw it, I can deal with having to make more trips to the bank then other classes...OH BUT WAIT.

Other classes get better quality drops right? This means they have more green and blue etc items to deconstruct therefore they are also getting better improvement materials.
Looks like high damage and crit dealers (mostly NB's) get the s**t end of the stick!
Finese is broken. Case closed.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game. Just little things like this where I know others have an advantage over me just annoys me lol

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

What add-on is this? Does it display in its own window? or in the chat box?

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Finesse has nothing to do with it. Luck is luck. I've been in more than my fair share of situations where the guy who's holding the group back and not contributing much receives the Lion's Share of the loot.

You either get lucky or you don't.