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How would you like to hide your vampirism?
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Morduil✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Which means that this whole thing is a waste of time if those who want change are a trivial percentage of the entire playerbase who have a view that it's fine as it is.MornaBaine wrote: »The following poll will not have a "leave is exactly as is option" because this poll is designed to help pinpoint the most popular view among those who WOULD like to see changes..
Way to skew the result to the way you want it.
I never fail to be surprised by how poorly people understand polls and what they are and what they measure. Thus far a fairly small percentage of players have actually taken the poll. That will let ZoS know the percentage of players who take an actual interest in this topic. At least among those who visit these forums. I created the poll knowing the response would likely be relatively small. Sure, there's a risk ZoS will, for that reason, choose to ignore it. But if they are, in fact, willing to put the lie to their assertion that they DO care about the satisfaction of their small roleplaying base and refuse to do the things we request that don't even affect game mechanics and are, in fact, fairly simple to implement, then that let's ME know that this is a company that does not deserve my continued business. Trust me, the poll is working as intended.
Perhaps, to avoid the inevitable responses criticising the absence of a disagree option to any of your recent polls, you might consider amending the title of their threads.
I haven't criticised the absence of such a button as you do perfectly fairly include the explanation in your post, but it is a bit optimistic to expect people not to react as some have.
After all, to ask the question 'How would you like to hide your vampirism?' without allowing a response "I wouldn't" might not unreasonably be seen as a little asymmetrical.
It might be more wordy, but would a title such as "If you are unhappy with the status quo, how would you like to hide your vampirism?" be less likely to lead to confusion?
The title I gave the post perfectly describes the question. If people are a) too lazy or b) too stupid to comprehend basic English there is really nothing I can do about that. It is their problem, not mine. People who do not READ polls have no business answering them in the first place.
First, it doesn't perfectly describe the question. In not allowing the answer "I wouldn't like to hide my vampirism" it employs a logical fallacy, the common exemplar for which is the old police trap: "When did you stop beating your wife?". Both questions are flawed.
Second, speaking only for myself, I would try to sympathise with people for whom English is not their first language and whose consequent grasp of it is insufficient to understand elements of a poll that I had posted.
Unless I was only looking for affirmation and had no tolerance for others' opinions. But that is, of course, only to speak for myself.6 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭none of them as the apperence is one of the downsides to balance vampirism.Edited by Tankqull on October 27, 2014 2:00PMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Which means that this whole thing is a waste of time if those who want change are a trivial percentage of the entire playerbase who have a view that it's fine as it is.MornaBaine wrote: »The following poll will not have a "leave is exactly as is option" because this poll is designed to help pinpoint the most popular view among those who WOULD like to see changes..
Way to skew the result to the way you want it.
I never fail to be surprised by how poorly people understand polls and what they are and what they measure. Thus far a fairly small percentage of players have actually taken the poll. That will let ZoS know the percentage of players who take an actual interest in this topic. At least among those who visit these forums. I created the poll knowing the response would likely be relatively small. Sure, there's a risk ZoS will, for that reason, choose to ignore it. But if they are, in fact, willing to put the lie to their assertion that they DO care about the satisfaction of their small roleplaying base and refuse to do the things we request that don't even affect game mechanics and are, in fact, fairly simple to implement, then that let's ME know that this is a company that does not deserve my continued business. Trust me, the poll is working as intended.
Perhaps, to avoid the inevitable responses criticising the absence of a disagree option to any of your recent polls, you might consider amending the title of their threads.
I haven't criticised the absence of such a button as you do perfectly fairly include the explanation in your post, but it is a bit optimistic to expect people not to react as some have.
After all, to ask the question 'How would you like to hide your vampirism?' without allowing a response "I wouldn't" might not unreasonably be seen as a little asymmetrical.
It might be more wordy, but would a title such as "If you are unhappy with the status quo, how would you like to hide your vampirism?" be less likely to lead to confusion?
The title I gave the post perfectly describes the question. If people are a) too lazy or b) too stupid to comprehend basic English there is really nothing I can do about that. It is their problem, not mine. People who do not READ polls have no business answering them in the first place.
First, it doesn't perfectly describe the question. In not allowing the answer "I wouldn't like to hide my vampirism" it employs a logical fallacy, the common exemplar for which is the old police trap: "When did you stop beating your wife?". Both questions are flawed.
Second, speaking only for myself, I would try to sympathise with people for whom English is not their first language and whose consequent grasp of it is insufficient to understand elements of a poll that I had posted.
Unless I was only looking for affirmation and had no tolerance for others' opinions. But that is, of course, only to speak for myself.
The poll IS NOT designed to see who does and does not want changes to vampire appearance. The poll is designed to find out how those who DO want those changes would like to see them implemented. I am under no obligation to create the poll you want, though certainly you or anyone else is welcome to do so.
It might also be helpful it you would take note of the fact that the poll is titled: HOW would you like to hide your vampirism?.... not: WOULD you like to hide your vampirism?Edited by MornaBaine on October 27, 2014 3:57PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!4 -
Morduil✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »The poll IS NOT designed to see who does and does not want changes to vampire appearance.
I'm not saying it does. Merely that some people aren't grasping that, and that there might be a way to resolve the confusion without merely insulting or ignoring those who are confused.MornaBaine wrote: »I am under no obligation to create the poll you want, though certainly you or anyone else is welcome to do so.
I never said I wanted a poll. I am merely making a suggestion that might stop you receiving the replies that seemed to be annoying you.MornaBaine wrote: »
It might also be helpful it you would take note of the fact that the poll is titled: HOW would you like to hide your vampirism?.... not: WOULD you like to hide your vampirism?
I have: the current wording of the question is why it is an example of what is technically known as a complex question fallacy.
5 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Which means that this whole thing is a waste of time if those who want change are a trivial percentage of the entire playerbase who have a view that it's fine as it is.MornaBaine wrote: »The following poll will not have a "leave is exactly as is option" because this poll is designed to help pinpoint the most popular view among those who WOULD like to see changes..
Way to skew the result to the way you want it.
I never fail to be surprised by how poorly people understand polls and what they are and what they measure. Thus far a fairly small percentage of players have actually taken the poll. That will let ZoS know the percentage of players who take an actual interest in this topic. At least among those who visit these forums. I created the poll knowing the response would likely be relatively small. Sure, there's a risk ZoS will, for that reason, choose to ignore it. But if they are, in fact, willing to put the lie to their assertion that they DO care about the satisfaction of their small roleplaying base and refuse to do the things we request that don't even affect game mechanics and are, in fact, fairly simple to implement, then that let's ME know that this is a company that does not deserve my continued business. Trust me, the poll is working as intended.
Perhaps, to avoid the inevitable responses criticising the absence of a disagree option to any of your recent polls, you might consider amending the title of their threads.
I haven't criticised the absence of such a button as you do perfectly fairly include the explanation in your post, but it is a bit optimistic to expect people not to react as some have.
After all, to ask the question 'How would you like to hide your vampirism?' without allowing a response "I wouldn't" might not unreasonably be seen as a little asymmetrical.
It might be more wordy, but would a title such as "If you are unhappy with the status quo, how would you like to hide your vampirism?" be less likely to lead to confusion?
The title I gave the post perfectly describes the question. If people are a) too lazy or b) too stupid to comprehend basic English there is really nothing I can do about that. It is their problem, not mine. People who do not READ polls have no business answering them in the first place.
First, it doesn't perfectly describe the question. In not allowing the answer "I wouldn't like to hide my vampirism" it employs a logical fallacy, the common exemplar for which is the old police trap: "When did you stop beating your wife?". Both questions are flawed.
Second, speaking only for myself, I would try to sympathise with people for whom English is not their first language and whose consequent grasp of it is insufficient to understand elements of a poll that I had posted.
Unless I was only looking for affirmation and had no tolerance for others' opinions. But that is, of course, only to speak for myself.
The poll IS NOT designed to see who does and does not want changes to vampire appearance. The poll is designed to find out how those who DO want those changes would like to see them implemented. I am under no obligation to create the poll you want, though certainly you or anyone else is welcome to do so.
It might also be helpful it you would take note of the fact that the poll is titled: HOW would you like to hide your vampirism?.... not: WOULD you like to hide your vampirism?
To be fair, "no change from current availability" is an answer to "how should we hide our appearance". The current is "with helmets", which does provide an answer how (even if you find it unacceptable).7 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »The poll IS NOT designed to see who does and does not want changes to vampire appearance.
I'm not saying it does. Merely that some people aren't grasping that, and that there might be a way to resolve the confusion without merely insulting or ignoring those who are confused.MornaBaine wrote: »I am under no obligation to create the poll you want, though certainly you or anyone else is welcome to do so.
I never said I wanted a poll. I am merely making a suggestion that might stop you receiving the replies that seemed to be annoying you.MornaBaine wrote: »
It might also be helpful it you would take note of the fact that the poll is titled: HOW would you like to hide your vampirism?.... not: WOULD you like to hide your vampirism?
I have: the current wording of the question is why it is an example of what is technically known as a complex question fallacy.
So should I have instead called the poll: IF you want to hide your vampirism HOW would you like to do it? Because that seems excessively clunky and unnecessary.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
Morduil✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »The poll IS NOT designed to see who does and does not want changes to vampire appearance.
I'm not saying it does. Merely that some people aren't grasping that, and that there might be a way to resolve the confusion without merely insulting or ignoring those who are confused.MornaBaine wrote: »I am under no obligation to create the poll you want, though certainly you or anyone else is welcome to do so.
I never said I wanted a poll. I am merely making a suggestion that might stop you receiving the replies that seemed to be annoying you.MornaBaine wrote: »
It might also be helpful it you would take note of the fact that the poll is titled: HOW would you like to hide your vampirism?.... not: WOULD you like to hide your vampirism?
I have: the current wording of the question is why it is an example of what is technically known as a complex question fallacy.
So should I have instead called the poll: IF you want to hide your vampirism HOW would you like to do it? Because that seems excessively clunky and unnecessary.
It might be, and I do sympathise with the desire for a cleaner question, but it would then be a perfectly fair and unloaded question that would elicit more sympathy and understanding from those reading the forum and, hopefully, more useful responses for you.4 -
phreatophile✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wouldn't sweat the wording or the replies that border on trollery.
As you have pointed out yourself. Mentions of vampires in these forums always seems to bring out the very worst in a certain segment of the population.
To me, at stage 1, we've just fed and should look more or less normal. It doesn't last long, so I can't imagine what the big issue is. (Actually I can, people who disaprove of Vamps in PvP want no good things for players of Vamps since they got Impulse/Swarmed to death a few times)6 -
AaronMB✭✭✭What TES Lore is there that supports this idea?Edited by AaronMB on October 27, 2014 5:45PM1
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Hamfast✭✭✭✭✭I was thinking about this Poll and the idea behind it... and while "Hiding" the fact I am a vampire is not an issue I care about, I voted, but wanted to vote twice, Costume or Passive Skill... the costume is obviously something that covers but amounts to nothing. The Passive Skill idea would not have to "Hide" all the changes that being a vampire brings, it could be a 2 or 3 point skill that lessens the visual changes so that we look normal at stage 1, perhaps at 3 points even hides Stage 2... Stage 3 and 4 may not change... choose to spend the skill points, get the benefits.Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...3 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭What TES Lore is there that supports this idea?
Rivenspire. Quest there and you'll know.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT1 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »I bet you would like. Me too be in WW form and appear human hahaha
What?Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT1 -
c0rp✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can already hide it...feed.Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
Disable abilities while holding block.
Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.2 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nah, it's still not your original appearance for you character.
If Stage 1 looked just like your original character with minute differences, eye color blah blah blah, then this poll wouldn't exist.
As it stands, there is clear evidence that hiding one's Vampiric appearance IN GAME. Whether those NPCs were just well fed or had some sooper sekrit spell of disguiseyness remains to be seen.
Fact of the matter is, it's there, it happened, why can't we play with it too?Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only part that concerns me is that with the justice system I feel that stage 1 should be undetectable even by other players and should last longer than 30 minutes along with more options to feed. I feel like that would be in line with other TES games. Also they should remove vampirism and lycanthropy as buffs since it's way too easy for other players to pick you out with those stats.:trollin:5 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »The only part that concerns me is that with the justice system I feel that stage 1 should be undetectable even by other players and should last longer than 30 minutes along with more options to feed. I feel like that would be in line with other TES games. Also they should remove vampirism and lycanthropy as buffs since it's way too easy for other players to pick you out with those stats.
Absolutely agree with all of this. It shouldn't even be possible for an add-on that identifies werewolves and vampires to exist. You want to be a super monster killer? Fine. Pay for and slot the skill that gives you the ability to discern your prey. I frankly love the idea of a "vampire hunter" build. It's the kind of specialization this game was marketed as being designed for... but then didn't really happen. And as soon as that ability goes live I BET you will see a sudden plunge in the hordes of Stage 4 vampires in Cyrodil. Which is as it should be. And for those folks NOT specced for vampire hunting? They should need to be a little afraid of us. Not ridiculously so and let's remember kids, "fired bad!" no matter who is dealing it out to us.
And I do think the justice system is going to end up forcing some changes in the Stages which will likely be to the good. Sadly, this will be AFTER ZoS releases the justice system without taking this into account and we have to put up with a system that will be broken for vampires (and probably werewolves) for months until they figure it out.
Anyone know when the justice system is slated to hit PTS? That might e enough to get me to copy my vampire over there.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
chipputer✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »If Stage 1 looked just like your original character with minute differences, eye color blah blah blah, then this poll wouldn't exist.
Oh no. My skin is a little more pale and my lips are a little less pronounced in stage 1. My character's appearance is ruined. My world is over.As it stands, there is clear evidence that hiding one's Vampiric appearance IN GAME. Whether those NPCs were just well fed or had some sooper sekrit spell of disguiseyness remains to be seen.
Fact of the matter is, it's there, it happened, why can't we play with it too?
I don't recall this. I recall every single vampire NPC being pretty obvious if you actually took the time to look at them and didn't just spam the E button to rush through dialogue.0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »If Stage 1 looked just like your original character with minute differences, eye color blah blah blah, then this poll wouldn't exist.
Oh no. My skin is a little more pale and my lips are a little less pronounced in stage 1. My character's appearance is ruined. My world is over.As it stands, there is clear evidence that hiding one's Vampiric appearance IN GAME. Whether those NPCs were just well fed or had some sooper sekrit spell of disguiseyness remains to be seen.
Fact of the matter is, it's there, it happened, why can't we play with it too?
I don't recall this. I recall every single vampire NPC being pretty obvious if you actually took the time to look at them and didn't just spam the E button to rush through dialogue.
Then you were not paying attention. Count Verandis Ravenwatch. 'Nuff said.Edited by MornaBaine on October 27, 2014 8:50PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »
Not a reasonable "solution" of which you are quite aware.
Why isn't it a reasonable solution? It works.
Just because a solution doesn't satisfy YOU does not make the solution any less valid.Edited by MercyKilling on October 27, 2014 11:54PMI am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.4 -
IrishGirlGamer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have an attic ... with a picture in it ...Valar Morghulis.
Someday I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull. Arya Stark
You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well. Sansa Stark
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Desmond Tutu1 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭Vampires should not be able to hide so easily--at least, not at the later stages.
Things like appearance changes via illusion spell or blood consumption to the point that they are able to totally blend in with society no matter how late the stage, imo, should only be reserved for vampires who have either come from a more pure lineage or have gained more than a substantial amount of experience/skill at being a vampire (as demonstrated in a few TES games in the past). None of which should be attained by a player who gained vampirism from wandering blood fiend mongrels.
But I suppose if it HAD to be an option.....I would have it be an active skill. It has a massive cooldown unless you are a lower stage vampire, in which case the cooldown will be shorter. The shortest cool down should be around, say, a once-per-day limit for the stage 1 vamp, and a 1 week cool down for the Stage 4 vamps.
The spell could be interrupted by a few specific skills like mage light and the active skill can last as long as long as the entire time you spent logged in that day so long as it is slotted in the current ability bar, otherwise it would be cancelled and you wouldn't be able use it until the cool down is finished.0 -
WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »If Stage 1 looked just like your original character with minute differences, eye color blah blah blah, then this poll wouldn't exist.
Oh no. My skin is a little more pale and my lips are a little less pronounced in stage 1. My character's appearance is ruined. My world is over.As it stands, there is clear evidence that hiding one's Vampiric appearance IN GAME. Whether those NPCs were just well fed or had some sooper sekrit spell of disguiseyness remains to be seen.
Fact of the matter is, it's there, it happened, why can't we play with it too?
I don't recall this. I recall every single vampire NPC being pretty obvious if you actually took the time to look at them and didn't just spam the E button to rush through dialogue.
Main questline in Rivenspire. Go do it. Also, knock that "woe is me" nonsense off.
Don't trivialize someone else's legitimate opinions and complaints.Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
"There's no such thing as overkill..."
"No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."
P2PBetaTesters
#Tamriel_BETA_Team
#BETA_TESTER4LYF
DominionMasterRace
#GOAHEADTHEYGOTCANDY
#SEEMSLEGIT3 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vampires should not be able to hide so easily--at least, not at the later stages.
Things like appearance changes via illusion spell or blood consumption to the point that they are able to totally blend in with society no matter how late the stage, imo, should only be reserved for vampires who have either come from a more pure lineage or have gained more than a substantial amount of experience/skill at being a vampire (as demonstrated in a few TES games in the past). None of which should be attained by a player who gained vampirism from wandering blood fiend mongrels.
But I suppose if it HAD to be an option.....I would have it be an active skill. It has a massive cooldown unless you are a lower stage vampire, in which case the cooldown will be shorter. The shortest cool down should be around, say, a once-per-day limit for the stage 1 vamp, and a 1 week cool down for the Stage 4 vamps.
The spell could be interrupted by a few specific skills like mage light and the active skill can last as long as long as the entire time you spent logged in that day so long as it is slotted in the current ability bar, otherwise it would be cancelled and you wouldn't be able use it until the cool down is finished.
I agree with what you say regarding abilities bring reserved for vampires of great experience/ age or ofspecial bloodlines. However, IF we go with that, then they need to make this things available to players, even if at end game.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
yiasemi✭✭✭✭Hmmmm, I'm not sure, let's put every undead head on a pike to let me see more clearly.2 -
chipputer✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »Then you were not paying attention. Count Verandis Ravenwatch. 'Nuff said.
I recall him having a redness near his eyes that a normal character wouldn't. I picked him out as a vampire pretty much right away.
Regardless, one character having the ability to hide it for the sake of the story doesn't mean you have the ability to.
EDIT: As a matter of fact, I'm right.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qH0DJF4MYxg/maxresdefault.jpg
His vampirism isn't hidden. He's just not as pale as someone who chose a paler skin color would have ended up being. The point is disproven and now moot. Thanks for playing. Come again.WraithAzraiel wrote: »knock that "woe is me" nonsense off.
Don't trivialize someone else's legitimate opinions and complaints.
Uh, no. It's not a legitimate complaint so I'll trivialize it all I want, thanks. Vampires, in all ES games, have been pretty dang ugly. You just don't have the freedom to mod the MMO version of it. You knew what you were getting in to. You don't get to hide it.Edited by chipputer on October 28, 2014 6:55AM6
