I JUST DONT GET IT. WHY U HATE NBS SO MUCH

Columba · October 2014

Arowe_eso wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

From my perspective, the stealth attacks can be countered but nothing I've tried saves me from being pinned in place and destroyed.

I'll state the obvious and say dodge rolling. if you're always too low on stam to roll, you might want to adjust your build/playstyle to give more regen or use less stam. Alternatively you can spend your magicka to purge or cast damage shields on yourself.

There are few things in this game without counters that I've come across

there's an exploit where you can shield slam then talon, and dodge rolling wont work.

Malveria · October 2014

Come on over and sit by the Sorcs, NBs. We've got plenty of room.

Cysapper · October 2014

Columba wrote: »

I am a NB, and these are reasonable changes. No class should be able to kill another before they can react. Now can you fix the DK shield bash , talon exploit so that I am not perma stunned?

It's not just a DK thing it seems to be a bug with a knock down and a root. Today I was hit with crystal frag and crippling grasp from a NB and I was perma locked. I've sent in like 30 to 40 bug reports about it. But, as we all know they just get put in file 13.

Soulac · October 2014

I don't play a Shield Build and I'm fine with my NB.
Ofc some skills need fixes, but we NBs don't need more love!

But if you want.. Buff me, so I'm able to kill everything much faster

*grabs popcorn*

ZeroTheCat · October 2014

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

I Nightblade with a stick and a dress.

There. Fixed it for you.

ZeroTheCat · October 2014

eliisra wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

I'm curious, how is dying to a stealth attack instantly any more of a problem or more infuriating than being perma pinned in place and killed without being able to do anything about it? I'm not being cheeky, i'm genuinely interested in how the two situations differ.

From my perspective, the stealth attacks can be countered but nothing I've tried saves me from being pinned in place and destroyed.

...

You literally cant die while you still have resources left in ESO. Only if incredibly new to PvP and totally unaware of basic combat mechanics. Or if standing on the railroad track, when the impulse tut-tut train is coming.

...

This is simply not true! I die many times with full resources when someone comes running with speed buff and spam impulse and uses bat swarm. You know why? Its unblockable! In the meantime they can still block! I can dodge roll 100 times, it doesn't make a difference!

ZeroTheCat · October 2014

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Sneak damage is too high, if you can't see that, then I'm sorry but you're stupid.

Like others have said, there are extremely good NBs out there that will wreck just about anything, both magicka and stamina based.

Ok. I'll bite. Show me ONE example of a stamina build that "wrecks" anything. Just one!

Darthryan · October 2014

I mentioned the catapaults because the *** view from it hasnt changed even on pts it hasn't.
As a glass canon build I don't mind not be able to one shot people. But when I try to get away and a dk is still able to charge me while I'm spamming my 3 dark cloaks in a row, it just gets annoying because cloak is still bugged.

Like I said, I think that they don't play this game cause otherwise the things that annoy our community as awhole would have been fixed by now. I guess I could just go magic and join the zerg trains except that play style gets boring quick. I just don't know how.much longer I can justify playing a game where the people who made it can't fix it. I don't even recommened it to my friends right now unless if they just want to pve.

Mumyo · October 2014

The only thing i would agree with is cloak but as soon as i fight Nightblades they escape pretty often succesfully with it.

Manoekin · October 2014

ZeroTheCat wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

I'm curious, how is dying to a stealth attack instantly any more of a problem or more infuriating than being perma pinned in place and killed without being able to do anything about it? I'm not being cheeky, i'm genuinely interested in how the two situations differ.

From my perspective, the stealth attacks can be countered but nothing I've tried saves me from being pinned in place and destroyed.

...

You literally cant die while you still have resources left in ESO. Only if incredibly new to PvP and totally unaware of basic combat mechanics. Or if standing on the railroad track, when the impulse tut-tut train is coming.

...

This is simply not true! I die many times with full resources when someone comes running with speed buff and spam impulse and uses bat swarm. You know why? Its unblockable! In the meantime they can still block! I can dodge roll 100 times, it doesn't make a difference!

If they're attacking you they don't have the speed buff. If they're blocking they aren't running as fast as you. I get away every time with a dodge roll. Stop making stuff up.

Ghostbane · October 2014

Nightblades complaining about their class is like Superman complaining why he doesn't get a gun.

When players like Krim and Mojar are taking on half the map single-handedly, NBS can zip it.

Ifthir_ESO · October 2014

eliisra wrote: »

But when instagibbed with a bow, than you die with full stamina and magicka, because you where never able to use a single skill. Are you really surprised that infuriates people?

I really try to avoid saying this but if you are dying to bow you need to l2p.

You are just mad that as a glass cannon sorc now you can actually get killed rather than shield stack + bolt spam to escape everything.

All the people moaning about bows are just mad there is a paper to their rock. Sorcerers are doing 90+% of the moaning re: snipe.

Sorcs are mad they cant just stack the super glass cannon massive magicka build and be invincible.

Shiall · October 2014

Isbilen wrote: »

Great idea, have Zenimax play and see how even a VR14 heavy armor DK is killed by a lethal arrow, heavy attack and venom arrow all hitting in less than a second from a person they couldn't even see.

Why are you using heavy armor? I just can't see any reason to use it. No damage. No defence.

Rune_Relic · October 2014

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Sneak damage is too high, if you can't see that, then I'm sorry but you're stupid.

Like others have said, there are extremely good NBs out there that will wreck just about anything, both magicka and stamina based.

I am sure there are extremely good sorcs out there that will wreck just about anything.
I am sure there are extremely good dks out there that will wreck just about anything.
I am sure there are extremely good templars out there that will wreck just about anything.

Maulkin · October 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

But when instagibbed with a bow, than you die with full stamina and magicka, because you where never able to use a single skill. Are you really surprised that infuriates people?

I really try to avoid saying this but if you are dying to bow you need to l2p.

You are just mad that as a glass cannon sorc now you can actually get killed rather than shield stack + bolt spam to escape everything.

All the people moaning about bows are just mad there is a paper to their rock. Sorcerers are doing 90+% of the moaning re: snipe.

Sorcs are mad they cant just stack the super glass cannon massive magicka build and be invincible.

Lemme spin that around...

I really try to avoid saying this but if you are can't work around the bow changes you need to l2p.

You are just mad that as a glass cannon NB build will not be able to insta-gib people any more.

All the people moaning about bow changes are just mad that they might actually have to swap weapons every now and then and do some out of stealth combat. NBs are doing 90+% of the moaning re: stealth changes.

NBs are mad they cant just stack the super glass cannon massive stealth build and slip in the shadows when 1/100 times it doesn't actually insta-kill people.

Nidwin · October 2014

Shiall wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

Great idea, have Zenimax play and see how even a VR14 heavy armor DK is killed by a lethal arrow, heavy attack and venom arrow all hitting in less than a second from a person they couldn't even see.

Why are you using heavy armor? I just can't see any reason to use it. No damage. No defence.

5 HA

20% Block reduction cost
20% Break Free reduction cost
More armor, you know, because it's Heavy Armor
15% armor and spell resist increase
20% Health Recovery increase
17+ Magicka + Stamina each time you're hit (2s cd and I think it stacks when double/triple hit at the same time but not completely certain, just a feeling)
+5% Increase in Healing Received

All this has of course nothing to do with defense or survival in Cyrodill, my mistake brah.

If you wonder
5HA Pug Heal Templar here

Ifthir_ESO · October 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I really try to avoid saying this but if you are can't work around the bow changes you need to l2p.

You are just mad that as a glass cannon NB build will not be able to insta-gib people any more.

All the people moaning about bow changes are just mad that they might actually have to swap weapons every now and then and do some out of stealth combat. NBs are doing 90+% of the moaning re: stealth changes.

NBs are mad they cant just stack the super glass cannon massive stealth build and slip in the shadows when 1/100 times it doesn't actually insta-kill people.

1. I run a caster NB as primary because it is superior to a stamina NB, almost everywhere. I can work around the changes without a problem. That doesn't mean the changes aren't a bad idea, and worse yet, were prioritized ahead of stuff like impulse nerfs which is laughable.
2. Sure it will, it will just be done as an ambush/soul-tether/impale rather than snipe/snipe.
3. You are right 90% of nightblades are complaining, for good reason. You are entitled to your opinion, even if that opinion is stupid and short-sighted.
4. I can still run the glass cannon build it will just be with stick/dress. That's the whole complaint, the continued normalization of skills/spells so that eventually we all are running the same things in PvP despite all being different classes. There was finally a reason to use stamina in PvP and with one random PvP change they appear to have completely nuked one of the few viable alternatives to the caster NB.

For the record the big difference between the stamina snipe build and the caster NB build is that one of them ignores annulment and one doesn't. Damage wise I can still hit you just as hard from stealth with spells.

Maulkin · October 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I really try to avoid saying this but if you are can't work around the bow changes you need to l2p.

You are just mad that as a glass cannon NB build will not be able to insta-gib people any more.

All the people moaning about bow changes are just mad that they might actually have to swap weapons every now and then and do some out of stealth combat. NBs are doing 90+% of the moaning re: stealth changes.

NBs are mad they cant just stack the super glass cannon massive stealth build and slip in the shadows when 1/100 times it doesn't actually insta-kill people.

1. I run a caster NB as primary because it is superior to a stamina NB, almost everywhere. I can work around the changes without a problem. That doesn't mean the changes aren't a bad idea, and worse yet, were prioritized ahead of stuff like impulse nerfs which is laughable.
2. Sure it will, it will just be done as an ambush/soul-tether/impale rather than snipe/snipe.
3. You are right 90% of nightblades are complaining, for good reason. You are entitled to your opinion, even if that opinion is stupid and short-sighted.
4. I can still run the glass cannon build it will just be with stick/dress. That's the whole complaint, the continued normalization of skills/spells so that eventually we all are running the same things in PvP despite all being different classes. There was finally a reason to use stamina in PvP and with one random PvP change they appear to have completely nuked one of the few viable alternatives to the caster NB.

For the record the big difference between the stamina snipe build and the caster NB build is that one of them ignores annulment and one doesn't. Damage wise I can still hit you just as hard from stealth with spells.

Jesus Christ man...

1. Impulse nerf is coming on the same patch as the stealth nerf, not after.

2. Ambush/Soul Tether/Impale involves droppping an ultie and getting in melee range which includes much higher risk of you getting nailed by the player or a friend of his if you don't get an insta-kill. There's a massive difference

3. I can call your opinion stupid too, let's start the insults this will be fun and interesting for everyone else.

4. At the moment the glass cannon caster-ganker (Shebali's vid) is also getting a nerf, so it's not any more or less viable than the archer, imo. In fact the non-ganker archer is getting huge buffs. If you want more stamina based assassination skills in the DW line (like an ambush-type gap closer and an impale-style execute) I'm ALL for it. My beef is that killing people in under 1 sec while being 30+ meters away is not cool and you can call that opinion stupid all you like.

5. No....Teleport Strike, Veiled Strike, Assassin's Blade & Death Stroke are NB caster skills that bypass Harness. The only skill used in shebali's vid that does not bypass Harness is Swallow Soul. You can do Ambush+Death Stroke+Impale and the player can die with his harness up.

EDIT:
I'm not sure if having harness up can reduce the stealth+crit damage of skills like ambush. It shouldn't. The Ambush+Veiled Strike+Impale combo should hit equally hard if you have Harness on or not. Just a disclaimer here.

eliisra · October 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

I really try to avoid saying this but if you are dying to bow you need to l2p.

You are just mad that as a glass cannon sorc now you can actually get killed rather than shield stack + bolt spam to escape everything.

All the people moaning about bows are just mad there is a paper to their rock. Sorcerers are doing 90+% of the moaning re: snipe.

Sorcs are mad they cant just stack the super glass cannon massive magicka build and be invincible.

I'm not playing a class cannon sorc. My sorcerer is a master crafter lol.

But yeah it's definitely a l2p issue, when people think they're entitled to 100% of someone's health in less than 0.5 sec while using a cheesy, safe, ranged weapon. Who's running the class house build here really lol? Who needs to learn how to play properly?

Besides you cant l2p or counter something you cant see, that selects his conflicts, only engages when circumstances are in his favour, using a ranged build that takes someone's full health in one go with 2 skills + light attack. It's trashy PvP, allowing bad players get free kills, just because they managed to find the sneak button.

Shiall · October 2014

Nidwin wrote: »

Shiall wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

Great idea, have Zenimax play and see how even a VR14 heavy armor DK is killed by a lethal arrow, heavy attack and venom arrow all hitting in less than a second from a person they couldn't even see.

Why are you using heavy armor? I just can't see any reason to use it. No damage. No defence.

5 HA

1) 20% Block reduction cost
2) 20% Break Free reduction cost
3) More armor, you know, because it's Heavy Armor
4) 15% armor and spell resist increase
5) 20% Health Recovery increase
6) 17+ Magicka + Stamina each time you're hit (2s cd and I think it stacks when double/triple hit at the same time but not completely certain, just a feeling)
7)+5% Increase in Healing Received

8)All this has of course nothing to do with defense or survival in Cyrodill, my mistake brah.

If you wonder
5HA Pug Heal Templar here

1) one really good passive.
2) immovable
3) try to use immovable instead
4)use light armor+shield if you want to survive. Light armor = more casted spells = you're alive. And if you must push with your mates = immovable
5)trash
6)do you really think that this can save you?
7)trash

8)correct

krim · October 2014

Huntler wrote: »

Krim as he reads this thread:

Cody wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Krim as he reads this thread:

if only we all used shield builds....

someday I may try it. heck by current 2H build is garbage, may as well become a block and spammer if I actually Want to be good at the game.

Dont forget my resto staff.

Ifthir_ESO · October 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

1. Impulse nerf is coming on the same patch as the stealth nerf, not after.

2. Ambush/Soul Tether/Impale involves droppping an ultie and getting in melee range which includes much higher risk of you getting nailed by the player or a friend of his if you don't get an insta-kill. There's a massive difference

3. I can call your opinion stupid too, let's start the insults this will be fun and interesting for everyone else.

4. At the moment the glass cannon caster-ganker (Shebali's vid) is also getting a nerf, so it's not any more or less viable than the archer, imo. In fact the non-ganker archer is getting huge buffs. If you want more stamina based assassination skills in the DW line (like an ambush-type gap closer and an impale-style execute) I'm ALL for it. My beef is that killing people in under 1 sec while being 30+ meters away is not cool and you can call that opinion stupid all you like.

5. No....Teleport Strike, Veiled Strike, Assassin's Blade & Death Stroke are NB caster skills that bypass Harness. The only skill used in shebali's vid that does not bypass Harness is Swallow Soul. You can do Ambush+Death Stroke+Impale and the player can die with his harness up.

1. A range nerf. No nerf to the explosion, no nerf to the dps, just a range nerf.
2. There isn't a massive difference because you face the same thing sniping someone. Have you played a caster NB? Have you played a stamina NB? I've done both, I feel more qualified to comment on them than your sorc that has never used a bow, and is basically only vulnerable to snipe due to infinite bolt escape + shield stack when hurt.
3. I call it like I see it.
4. How is the glass cannon ganker getting a nerf? I still hit for 900+ on crits on funnel health in PvP on PTS. Your beef is that you can actually get killed while bolting away. Sorry your "I live" button has a counter. Limiting snipe's effectiveness is 100% a buff to sorcs who shield stack and bolt away.
5. Harness (maybe they fixed this last patch, haven't been watching) used to work vs everything you said. I haven't been using it lately but let me test and post results.

pmn100b16_ESO · October 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

I still hit for 900+ on crits on funnel health in PvP on PTS....

What are you fighting, Mudcrabs?

Ifthir_ESO · October 2014

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

I still hit for 900+ on crits on funnel health in PvP on PTS....

What are you fighting, Mudcrabs?

Ill post some logs of live tonight comparing caster vs. bow damage.

Maulkin · October 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

1. Impulse nerf is coming on the same patch as the stealth nerf, not after.

2. Ambush/Soul Tether/Impale involves droppping an ultie and getting in melee range which includes much higher risk of you getting nailed by the player or a friend of his if you don't get an insta-kill. There's a massive difference

3. I can call your opinion stupid too, let's start the insults this will be fun and interesting for everyone else.

4. At the moment the glass cannon caster-ganker (Shebali's vid) is also getting a nerf, so it's not any more or less viable than the archer, imo. In fact the non-ganker archer is getting huge buffs. If you want more stamina based assassination skills in the DW line (like an ambush-type gap closer and an impale-style execute) I'm ALL for it. My beef is that killing people in under 1 sec while being 30+ meters away is not cool and you can call that opinion stupid all you like.

5. No....Teleport Strike, Veiled Strike, Assassin's Blade & Death Stroke are NB caster skills that bypass Harness. The only skill used in shebali's vid that does not bypass Harness is Swallow Soul. You can do Ambush+Death Stroke+Impale and the player can die with his harness up.

1. A range nerf. No nerf to the explosion, no nerf to the dps, just a range nerf.
2. There isn't a massive difference because you face the same thing sniping someone. Have you played a caster NB? Have you played a stamina NB? I've done both, I feel more qualified to comment on them than your sorc that has never used a bow, and is basically only vulnerable to snipe due to infinite bolt escape + shield stack when hurt.
3. I call it like I see it.
4. How is the glass cannon ganker getting a nerf? I still hit for 900+ on crits on funnel health in PvP on PTS. Your beef is that you can actually get killed while bolting away. Sorry your "I live" button has a counter. Limiting snipe's effectiveness is 100% a buff to sorcs who shield stack and bolt away.
5. Harness (maybe they fixed this last patch, haven't been watching) used to work vs everything you said. I haven't been using it lately but let me test and post results.

Just stop it. You have no clue what you're talking about clearly.

1. A range nerf is a nerf. The explosion only happens to undead when you're using a fire staff. The damage of the skill itself is nothing to right home about.
2. Playing as NB does not automatically make you the only person qualified to talk about it, but by the looks of things it makes you heavily biased. You will still be able to kill Sorc with Snipe just not guaranteed kill in under 2 secs. Stop over-dramatising the nerf. I also play a DK, I can get nowhere to escape a melee ganker.
3. Likewise
4. Funnel Health is not a gank skill. It gets no stealth damage bonus. Ambush, which is what all magicka based gankers are using, is getting a nerf to damage when used form stealth.
5. Learn what you're talking about then come back with some arguments

Ifthir_ESO · October 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Just stop it. You have no clue what you're talking about clearly.

1. A range nerf is a nerf. The explosion only happens to undead when you're using a fire staff. The damage of the skill itself is nothing to right home about.
2. Playing as NB does not automatically make you the only qualified person about it, but by the looks of things it makes you heavily biased. You will still be able to kill Sorc with Snipe just not guaranteed kill in under 2 secs. Stop over-dramatising the nerf
3. Likewise
4. Funnel Health is not a gank skill. It gets no stealth damage bonus. Ambush, which is what all magicka based gankers are using, is getting a nerf to damage when used form stealth.
5. Learn what you're talking about then come back with some arguments

Which characters/alliance do you play? I play Xhiril, a NB in Ebonheart.

1. Who is using impulse without fire staff? Jesus Christ are you serious? The unblockable damage + ultimate building is why people used it. The larger range just made it easier to be out of the zerg while doing it. All this means is zergballs have to be more tightly grouped, nothing else.
2. Almost every NB player is here complaining. Almost every sorc here is celebrating. Try and keep up.
4. I use snipe solo. How is it a "gank skill". Ganking is when multiple people kill an individual. Snipe can't be spammed from stealth the way funnel health can be spammed while visible. Again, the difference is your sorcerer can use annulment vs my funnel healths, but cant use it vs. snipe.

Here is a definition of gank which you don't seem to understand

Ganking
It is a word commonly used in online video games, usualy used in an MMORPG. Ganking is the process in which a group of charecters gang up on one or more players that do not have a chance to defend themselves, Or when one high level player does the same action to a player way below his or her own level

5. I am done arguing this with you. It's obvious we disagree. You don't play NB, but you are an expert on them, and are posting in a thread about NB's specifically. Pretty much the definition of a person I don't want to even bother wasting any more time trying to educate.

HaljaNifheim · October 2014

Huntler wrote: »

Krim as he reads this thread:

While playing my NB, I just drink more and roll with it. I still like him even with all the deaths.

"I get knocked down
But I get up again
You're never going to keep me down" --Chumbawamba Battle Cry!

Tavore1138 · October 2014

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Like others have said, there are extremely good NBs out there that will wreck just about anything, both magicka and stamina based.

This is true - but sadly the same thing applies to mediocre DKs due to that little thing called imbalance. Thanks for your contribution though.

tagigan · October 2014

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Sneak damage is too high, if you can't see that, then I'm sorry but you're stupid.

Like others have said, there are extremely good NBs out there that will wreck just about anything, both magicka and stamina based.

There are extremely good players in all classes. Calling someone stupid because they don't agree with you just makes you stupid.
I have never been able to one shot kill anyone V8 NB. Even when using mark and sneak.

iliatha · October 2014

tagigan wrote: »

I have never been able to one shot kill anyone V8 NB. Even when using mark and sneak.

Maybe your equip is bad or something, its pretty easy ,p Its not really a "1-hit" but often times a 1-sec-fight with 3 abilities doing damage at the same time.
Doesnt work against better equipped people but yea.. i guess lev 10 and those who like to equip themselfes like lev 10s should have fun too in pvp. So lets make NB fights about 1000% longer and we will see...
Hope everyone will be happy when pvp is just zerg vs zerg ***. Really looking forward the block nerfs. Might be a good thing for some NBs to deal with dk and temp and NOT running shield-spamming caster gear stuff.