Two-Handed Weapon Changes, 1.5 - Good? Bad? Ugly?

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

You tell me! Let me know what you think here folks, I'm eager to know.

Weapon

Two Hand

Carve (Cleave morph): This ability now gives two Ultimate per target hit instead of three Ultimate.

Cleave: Fixed an issue where this ability could not critically hit. We also increased the initial hit damage by approximately 10%.

Critical Charge: Reduced damage of this ability by approximately 10%.

Critical Rush (Critical Charge morph): Increased the ranged damage bonus for this ability to 68%.

Dizzying Swing (Uppercut morph):
Reduced the debuff for this ability to 15% from 20%.

This ability now has an increased duration, and applies to stun-immune monsters.

The debuff no longer stacks with similar effects such as Low Slash.

Forceful: This passive now applies splash damage to two targets instead of one.

Heavy Weapons:
This passive now causes axes to deal bleed damage over 6 seconds instead of 10.

Increased the damage per tick, though the total damage dealt remains unchanged.

This passive now causes maces to ignore 20% of your target’s armor at Rank II.

Momentum: This ability now gives a flat 20% bonus to power instead of increasing over time. This ability also heals you while it’s active, and the duration has been increased to 30 seconds.

Rally (Momentum morph): This ability now gains an increased heal value over time, instead of healing for a flat value. This ability can also be activated at any time to instantly heal you.

Reverse Slice (Reverse Slash morph): Increased the area damage of this ability by approximately 100%, and it can now hit up to 6 targets.

Stampede (Critical Charge morph): This ability now snares targets by 60% instead of immobilizing them.

Uppercut: Reduced the cast time for this ability by approximately 12%. We also increased the damage by approximately 2%.

Replaced the Arcane Fighter passive with Follow Up. This will increase your damage by 5%/10% for 7 seconds after activating a fully charged heavy attack.

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

I honestly prefer them to leave Cleave's Ult builder as it was, blend Arcane Fighter and Follow Up together into one thing, and make Ax bleeds scale with Weapon Damage.

Also wish they'd just make Uppercut a flat .5 Seconds and increase the damage far more than a measly, crappy 2%. Like 20% would've been way better and worth a cast time on a melee ability, especially when Snipe and it's morphs can crit for like 1-2k from a distance and quickly at that.

Kinda makes you wonder who monitors PvP from the Dev Team.

Koensol · October 2014

Bad (You hate it)

To be honest, this feels more like [snip] nerf to me than anything else. Reducing damage on critical charge? Really? The range bonus dmg is only when opening. This ability is being used alot as well from close range and now that dmg is nerfed. Well done... Carve was one of the few worthwhile tools from 2h and it got nerfed.... and seriously the % increases on the other abilities are damn well near unnoticable (2%? Really?). Nerf this, buff that = nothing improved for 2h, while bow was buffed again!! GG Zos!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Kego · October 2014

But you know, that Uppercut can crit out of stealth for ~2.500 DMG? Buff that Skill DMG with 20% makes it a nice 3.000DMG Stealth Attack.

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

Yea, and that'd still be ok and make sense because a bow can do anywhere from one to two thousand from a [snip] massive distance.

So yea, clearly melee doesn't need a buff, it's totally just fine as is.

Note my bitter sarcasm.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Cody · October 2014

Good (You like it)

I love these changes. especially the heal over time/instant heal from momentum

at least.... it looks good on paper...... will try it in PTs at some point in the next few days.

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

I played with it. It's not bad, and it definitely helps cut down big time on that *** of Stampede-Bolt Streak-Rinse-And-Repeat, and while many are mad at Stampede and Critical Rush both doing less damage at base and the former no longer immobilizing people, I have a feeling that the Champion System and many other things will fix that, not to mention it puts some love out there for other lesser used skills such as Binding Javelin.

Still I wish they'd increase the damage bonus to Uppercut. Feels like a joke atm, and .8 is not much better than 1 Second flat.

Still_Mind · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

Very underwhelming changes. I can't see how that's the buff that 2h needs...

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

It isn't, but it's a start. My thing is what the hell is @ZoS thinking?

Also who moderates these forums so I can tag them and tell them that their Dev team is doing a terrible job. Well not terrible but it could easily be better.

Still_Mind · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

It isn't, but it's a start. My thing is what the hell is @ZoS thinking?

Also who moderates these forums so I can tag them and tell them that their Dev team is doing a terrible job. Well not terrible but it could easily be better.

I wouldn't even call it a start. It's half-buff, half-nerf... Two steps forward, two steps back.

Those are definitely not finalized changes, though. I hope ZOE will add more positive changes over the course of 1.5 development.

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

So do I, they really need it.

Davadin · October 2014

Good (You like it)

Funny how most people voted LOVE IT, but all the comments above (except for 1?) HATED IT lol...

For me, it's Good.

Yes, there's some nerf (we all know this skill line shouldn't have any nerf) but they did buff out some other skills/morph that doesn't get used to alot. Who knows, after adjusting and adapting, it could be better.

Thoughts,
- Yes, Carve ulti nerf is sad. But it's Reverse Slice hits up to 6 target, so we do get an extra AoE/cone attack.
- I used to go Stampede, mob immobilized, then the Whip morph to get an extra attack and a heal. Now, I can try Critical Rush instead and switch the whip to the other morph that buff extra fire damage instead.
- The heal I used to get from that Whip I can now get from Momentum (and its morph!), which now adds a steady 20% for 30 sec, which is INSANE.
- Uppercut got a tiny buff, but a buff nonetheless. It's still fun to stealth-one-shot a guy, now it's even better. Yes, it's easy to pull 2k damage from stealth from the back even at VR1.
- Arcane Fight was OP. It was good, but a little too good. 100% proc? Come on. And buggy as hell for some. So I do welcome the 10% extra damage after a heavy hit.

My bread and butter with 2H setup was stampede, 2x whip, heavy, Executioner. Throw in some Carve and Fire Breath for Aoe mob. For gank mode, I start with Uppercut, then stampede, efc...

With this, I can pop Rally, go for Critical Rush instead of Stampede then Uppercut (or vice versa), a Lava whip/ardent flame skill to start DoT, Heavy Attack, then whatever I do the next 7 second will hurt like hell. Including Executioner or Reverse Swing if I do a lot of AoE.

Technically, it's great. It's not a full buff, but it's not just nerf either. We need to adapt and I'm pretty sure in a couple of week, we'll sort things out.

PvE dungeon wise, I even see higher DPS thanks to Rally and the mix of new skills....

So overall, good. Real good. Can't wait to try.

Davadin · October 2014

Good (You like it)

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Kinda makes you wonder who monitors PvP from the Dev Team.

These are all combat team changes. Not PvP team.

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

Davadin wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Kinda makes you wonder who monitors PvP from the Dev Team.

These are all combat team changes. Not PvP team.

I see, ty.

Davadin wrote: »

Funny how most people voted LOVE IT, but all the comments above (except for 1?) HATED IT lol...

For me, it's Good.

Yes, there's some nerf (we all know this skill line shouldn't have any nerf) but they did buff out some other skills/morph that doesn't get used to alot. Who knows, after adjusting and adapting, it could be better.

Thoughts,
- Yes, Carve ulti nerf is sad. But it's Reverse Slice hits up to 6 target, so we do get an extra AoE/cone attack.
- I used to go Stampede, mob immobilized, then the Whip morph to get an extra attack and a heal. Now, I can try Critical Rush instead and switch the whip to the other morph that buff extra fire damage instead.
- The heal I used to get from that Whip I can now get from Momentum (and its morph!), which now adds a steady 20% for 30 sec, which is INSANE.
- Uppercut got a tiny buff, but a buff nonetheless. It's still fun to stealth-one-shot a guy, now it's even better. Yes, it's easy to pull 2k damage from stealth from the back even at VR1.
- Arcane Fight was OP. It was good, but a little too good. 100% proc? Come on. And buggy as hell for some. So I do welcome the 10% extra damage after a heavy hit.

My bread and butter with 2H setup was stampede, 2x whip, heavy, Executioner. Throw in some Carve and Fire Breath for Aoe mob. For gank mode, I start with Uppercut, then stampede, efc...

With this, I can pop Rally, go for Critical Rush instead of Stampede then Uppercut (or vice versa), a Lava whip/ardent flame skill to start DoT, Heavy Attack, then whatever I do the next 7 second will hurt like hell. Including Executioner or Reverse Swing if I do a lot of AoE.

Technically, it's great. It's not a full buff, but it's not just nerf either. We need to adapt and I'm pretty sure in a couple of week, we'll sort things out.

PvE dungeon wise, I even see higher DPS thanks to Rally and the mix of new skills....

So overall, good. Real good. Can't wait to try.

You're a Dragon Knight, everything you do or see is good. This is not so for the rest of us, not by a long shot.

All jokes aside, your class really is the OP one, and Arcane Fighter was not that OP if at all, and frankly while things have been buffed and balanced on some ends, it leaves a massive amount left to be desired for everything else.

Or perhaps my issues could be with the fact that I'm a Templar trying to do melee DPS like a crusader type character, because although it's a classic and often favored archetype, it's apparently shunned by ZoS.

Davadin · October 2014

Good (You like it)

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Kinda makes you wonder who monitors PvP from the Dev Team.

These are all combat team changes. Not PvP team.

I see, ty.

Davadin wrote: »

Funny how most people voted LOVE IT, but all the comments above (except for 1?) HATED IT lol...

For me, it's Good.

Yes, there's some nerf (we all know this skill line shouldn't have any nerf) but they did buff out some other skills/morph that doesn't get used to alot. Who knows, after adjusting and adapting, it could be better.

Thoughts,
- Yes, Carve ulti nerf is sad. But it's Reverse Slice hits up to 6 target, so we do get an extra AoE/cone attack.
- I used to go Stampede, mob immobilized, then the Whip morph to get an extra attack and a heal. Now, I can try Critical Rush instead and switch the whip to the other morph that buff extra fire damage instead.
- The heal I used to get from that Whip I can now get from Momentum (and its morph!), which now adds a steady 20% for 30 sec, which is INSANE.
- Uppercut got a tiny buff, but a buff nonetheless. It's still fun to stealth-one-shot a guy, now it's even better. Yes, it's easy to pull 2k damage from stealth from the back even at VR1.
- Arcane Fight was OP. It was good, but a little too good. 100% proc? Come on. And buggy as hell for some. So I do welcome the 10% extra damage after a heavy hit.

My bread and butter with 2H setup was stampede, 2x whip, heavy, Executioner. Throw in some Carve and Fire Breath for Aoe mob. For gank mode, I start with Uppercut, then stampede, efc...

With this, I can pop Rally, go for Critical Rush instead of Stampede then Uppercut (or vice versa), a Lava whip/ardent flame skill to start DoT, Heavy Attack, then whatever I do the next 7 second will hurt like hell. Including Executioner or Reverse Swing if I do a lot of AoE.

Technically, it's great. It's not a full buff, but it's not just nerf either. We need to adapt and I'm pretty sure in a couple of week, we'll sort things out.

PvE dungeon wise, I even see higher DPS thanks to Rally and the mix of new skills....

So overall, good. Real good. Can't wait to try.

You're a Dragon Knight, everything you do or see is good. This is not so for the rest of us, not by a long shot.

All jokes aside, your class really is the OP one, and Arcane Fighter was not that OP if at all, and frankly while things have been buffed and balanced on some ends, it leaves a massive amount left to be desired for everything else.

Or perhaps my issues could be with the fact that I'm a Templar trying to do melee DPS like a crusader type character, because although it's a classic and often favored archetype, it's apparently shunned by ZoS.

Have you tried Med armor playing stealth and high crit?

I don't play Templar so I can't say, but what I describe above is very 2H-specific skills - except for the whip.

Yes, of course, I can DPS more if I don on my robe and build a magicka build swinging a fire destro staff, but that wasn't my point.

My point was, strictly speaking (again, except for the Whip) from a stamina-build player, the changes are adaptable and have the potential to be really good.

Me, personally, is a health/heavy armor player, so I don't DPS that well, but I can walk around like a boss in PvE, and I'm pretty damn chewy in PvP too. This changes actually adds more DPS to my setup but I do have to change the playstyle a LOT (source of heals, AoE vs ST, etc.)

...which I personally enjoy with this game. I can be whatever whoever you want to be and you don't have to re-roll. (might need some skill points reset, but u dont lose the XP...)

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

I wear 5 pc medium, 1 light 1 heavy. My class skills do not support 2H use that well, whereas yours do simply for the fact that they hit harder than mine and act much faster, where mine are channels and long winded animations. You're spot on for the Stamina skills though, which are great for PvP but terrible for bosses and trials in PvE, which in fact most stamina builds involving a 2H already are no matter what class you pick.

Frankly, this game is fun but only if you pick the right class, which goes against the entire Elder Scrolls ideal, and frankly I'm getting tired of people not taking me places because I don't heal or getting mad at me for not leveling my resto staff (it's in the process of being leveled anyway for *** and giggles).

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've been called a plethora of bad names because I out DPS'd a Melee Sorc or whatever have you and refused to heal for them when they couldn't produce ***.

Sorry, I'm pretty bitter when it comes to the design of this game overall. It's fun, I want it to succeed so I can stay here, but at this rate I might buy a PS4 and just play Destiny all day or even go back to SWTOR because ZoS can't seem to get their *** together.

bellanca6561n · October 2014

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

You're a Dragon Knight, everything you do or see is good. This is not so for the rest of us, not by a long shot.

Hate to admit it but, in my case you could not be more correct. I began with a Templar but quit at VR7 using him in combat. Good crafter. Built him as a support character for group play. Twin Restoration staffs. Had trouble finding group play because the audience for this game had not stabilized yet. Next....

Made a couple of Nightblade Dunmer gals. Just loved them but had trouble with some of the content because, again, I could not find group play in the way I was used to, meaning all the time. Folks kept coming and going....

My main now is a Dragonknight and I have few if any of those problems because I can treat this as a single player game with occasional social opportunities.

For an average player like me, who aspires to moments of occasional competence, this was the only solution. I hope it's a temporary one, though, because support is my thing. I realize this might sound strange but I don't enjoy killing things but I love keeping people alive who are.

Guilds are beginning to stabilize now and the new content burners are on to the next thing.

As for these changes to two handed weapons, I will have to play it on Test first. In the reading of it it simply isn't clear to me how it will feel in combat.

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

My friend, I know exactly how you feel.

I like to kill things, but I'd rather do it with friends and instead of do all the work, I'd rather help others do the work of murder-death-kill and heal-live-man-live.

Davadin · October 2014

Good (You like it)

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I wear 5 pc medium, 1 light 1 heavy. My class skills do not support 2H use that well, whereas yours do simply for the fact that they hit harder than mine and act much faster, where mine are channels and long winded animations. You're spot on for the Stamina skills though, which are great for PvP but terrible for bosses and trials in PvE, which in fact most stamina builds involving a 2H already are no matter what class you pick.

Frankly, this game is fun but only if you pick the right class, which goes against the entire Elder Scrolls ideal, and frankly I'm getting tired of people not taking me places because I don't heal or getting mad at me for not leveling my resto staff (it's in the process of being leveled anyway for *** and giggles).

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've been called a plethora of bad names because I out DPS'd a Melee Sorc or whatever have you and refused to heal for them when they couldn't produce ***.

Sorry, I'm pretty bitter when it comes to the design of this game overall. It's fun, I want it to succeed so I can stay here, but at this rate I might buy a PS4 and just play Destiny all day or even go back to SWTOR because ZoS can't seem to get their *** together.

Yeah. Should've delete all the other classes and add a ranged skill line and heal skill line to DragonKnight and the game is perfect.

No, I'm not joking nor being sarcastic.

DK itself is a very VERY flexible class. Tank? Sure. DPS? Easy peasy. Range? Can do. Heals? Hmmm OK. Group play? We have some of those.

Other classes? Not so flexible. So yes, I do love the flexibility of this game from a DK point of view...

Then the game becomes "class-less".

Pick what you want, level what you need, and be creative.

Again, not joking.

BUT we digress. On-topic, I do feel like these changes are for the better. Much better for some, not so much for others.

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

Truth be told, I'd rather live with that than the other *** that's going on. Let the three skill lines replace the 4 current classes lol

Davadin · October 2014

Good (You like it)

So.... that 2% Uppercut bonus.

No plan to change it yet? lol

It's just sad. So sad.

I was hoping to have a med-armor build, but now? Maybe back to robe and stick for Impulse-spammalot.

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

As always, ZoS has a massive hard-on for Magic Users

Davadin · October 2014

Good (You like it)

ZOS:

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

LOOOOOOOOOOL

Koensol · October 2014

Bad (You hate it)

I still can't believe ZOS came up with these bs changes. Is it really that hard to figure out that 2H needed a large buff? This gave us nothing in terms of improving dps or other ways to be effective.

Davadin · October 2014

Good (You like it)

The Uppercut 2% buff:

Screen+shot+2011-01-06+at+8.18.53+AM.png

Thejollygreenone · October 2014

Well, the uppercut 2% is taking into account the 10% damage you'll be getting for preceding said uppercut with a heavy attack. Along with the cast time being reduced to the same as Ambush, the changes were pretty good actually.

Thoughts:

I noticed a good 200-300 sustained dps increase. However, I'm pretty sure it will still be behind DW, and it will CERTAINLY be behind bow, although it will have much better stamina regen than bow.

Keeping this in mind, yeah ZoS could stand to do a little more to bring all three stamina dps weapons in line with each other.

Ultimately, the balance could make sense for 2h to do the same dps as its ranged counterpart, bow, but still have far superior regen to compensate for the increased danger of being in melee range.

DW also gets this benefit, since they both regularly weave heavy attacks in their rotations. So back on point, 2h could use a little more work, get it the same dps as bow and we're in business.

Not sure where DW will stand in relation to bow after 1.5, I've only played around with bow and 2h.

Regardless of where DW lies in relation to bow, I think the goalpost should, or at least could, be for both DW and 2h to output the same dps as bow, while maintaining their current far superior resource management as a reward to the risk of being melee. Sounds like an interesting dynamic between playstyles.

As of now, I can say from my own personal pts experience that 2h is still lagging a bit behind in dps. Just keep on pushing it forward, we'll get there soon

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

You heard him boys, punch @ZoS employees until they make that 2% upwards of 10%! Or even 15%!

Wait, this is the gaming industry, we can't legally strongarm like that.

Uhh, nothing to see here folks >_> Nothing at all <_<

Thejollygreenone · October 2014

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

You heard him boys, punch @ZoS employees until they make that 2% upwards of 10%! Or even 15%!

Wait, this is the gaming industry, we can't legally strongarm like that.

Uhh, nothing to see here folks >_> Nothing at all <_<

Heard who..? Punch employees?

What?

Khivas_Carrick · October 2014

Ugly (You Love/Hate it but have THIS to say about it)

Nooooo who would do such a thing XD

Davadin · October 2014

Good (You like it)

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

Well, the uppercut 2% is taking into account the 10% damage you'll be getting for preceding said uppercut with a heavy attack. Along with the cast time being reduced to the same as Ambush, the changes were pretty good actually.

My biggest concern is that I use uppercut (Wrecking Blow) to (almost) one-shot a guy from stealth from behind. Can't start with a heavy since that'll break my stealth.

Imagine, with stealth, i hit around 2k. without it, i hit around 450. you're saying, if i start with heavy, now i got 500? Whoopie!

First, they only increase 2%, then they're nerfing stealth dmg bonus.

Yeah..... not good.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Two-Handed Weapon Changes, 1.5 - Good? Bad? Ugly?

Two-Handed Weapon Changes, 1.5 - Good? Bad? Ugly? 60 votes