Lethal Arrow. The new I win.

Natjur · October 2014

And the same NB bow snipers then complain when they hit a DK with reflect armor

jelliedsoup · October 2014

Zed wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Are you sure? there are several bolt escaping sorcs who never take beyond 600 DMG for a snipe hit from stealth.

Maybe those sorcs are holding block.

The group I'm thinking of must be holding it literally constantly. One guy was wondering along by himself, i was in stealth, sniped him, didn't look like he was holding block and same result.

MiyaTheUnbroken · October 2014

I'm one of the people you're so upset about. All stamina, all weapon damage, Archer's Mind, Red Mountain, etc. With my weapon damage at 220 I average 1.6k on my snipes, but it's a huge range. Today I sniped someone for around 700. Later I sniped someone for 2196 (I was so giddy I almost peed as it was my first time to ever break 2k). It's all a roll of the dice. If they want to make it so that I can't snipe for over 2k, that's totally fine. You'll be close enough to dead, an extra second won't save you. What I'm not okay with is that with this change sometimes I'll be sniping for less than 700! That's crap! I shouldn't be sniping that low now! It's a *** snipe!

Rylana · October 2014

Hunding/Torags reporting in (splash of ravager) with 250 weapon damage and 2337 stamina.

Lethal arrow will do anywhere from 500-750 (blocked/damage shields), to 1500-2400 (unblocked) depending on the various factors involved. My personal best shot was a 2578 one shot on a player with that much health (it might have been higher had he had more health, no way of knowing as the log limits your damage to how much health is remaining, but shots like that are exceptionally rare).

I can also heavy attack for about 1600 and light attack for about 800 coming out of stealth.

To achieve this, I gave up any semblance of survivability, and must ensure my target dies on the first rotation, else id better scramble because I have virtually no defense in this spec.

Also mentioned, DKs with flappy flaps are my bane and my counter. Ive actually one shot MYSELF before. It can happen, dont cancel that lethal in time when you see flaps go up and youre screwed.

So the build is powerful, yes, but if youre paying attention, ready to block or roll dodge, and have sufficient impen/defense and reflexes you can thwart me, especially if youre a DK or a shield stacker.

It is not an I-win button.

Rylana · October 2014

Valymer wrote: »

270 impenetrable rating is only 27% reduced chance for opponent to crit...

With potions and the right build, people can easily hit 80%+ chance to crit. I personally went full impenetrable--7 armor + shield = 8 x 90 impen (purple) = 720 impenetrable rating. Which I think means that no one under 72% chance to crit can crit me.

It's the only way to survive lethal arrow and ambush stun locks for me it seems (light armor user)

I can crit you, and my base crit is 55. Shadowy Disguise gives me an actual crit rate of 155% =D

Downside is its only good for 2-3 shots before im out of magicka (with enough left to mist or stealth out to reset)

Francescolg · October 2014

This has been going on for months now, since they love-patched stamina builds. ZOS simply wanted to patch melee weapons, forgetting that bow is also stamina-based, so they created the -by a large margin- strongest and widest range attack... very bad design flaw..!

Nice, how people always try do downplay facts. This type of attack is what is happening also to me every day. Usually, you meet 2 up to 5 bow users combined, sniping for 1500+. No chance to do anything. Armor and impenetrable do not matter that much!

They should have patched this much, much faster.

ZeroTheCat · October 2014

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Father wrote: »

You know its funny that in this forum there is another thread with a guy complaining how much his snipe is useless, so go reply there hehe
Just stack impenetrable. Easiest way to avoid being nuked by any ability, not good enough? Try putting a damage shield or radiant light. Or wear more armor.

^ this. Impene + shield stacking basically negates snipe.

or block.. ^^

Syntse · October 2014

Francescolg wrote: »

Usually, you meet 2 up to 5 bow users combined, sniping for 1500+. No chance to do anything.

Because fighting against the odds should be breeze? And if these somehow fail to take you down you will obliterate them... is that then fair?

I really could understand the worry about this IF NB would be able to 1-2 shot everyone AND dominate with breeze when not sniping.

Yes it can be annoying that you get killed by bushmonster.

Etaniel · October 2014

To everyone saying L2P, shield stack, stack impen, reflective scale roll dodge and so on, the typical scenario here is you're travelling between two keeps or outposts and you're getting sneak attacked. So impen doesn't work here because it is a sneak attack crit, second, a good ganker can get enough dmg to kill you in .3 sec by doing a snipe, following with a heavy attack/poison shot. They all land pretty much at the same time.

The only way to survive this is to actually hear the snipe coming, allowing you to roll dodge or block or whatever. Surviving these attacks is about muting your horse footsteps and muting ts so you can actually hear it coming.

That or hold block the whole way and lose 5 minutes every time you have to travel somewhere in Cyrodil.

I'm not complaining though, because these players are pretty much useless in a larger battle, and can't do anything if they can't engage you stealthed.

Just please stop telling folks to L2P about this one, it has nothing to do with skill

Valymer · October 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

270 impenetrable rating is only 27% reduced chance for opponent to crit...

With potions and the right build, people can easily hit 80%+ chance to crit. I personally went full impenetrable--7 armor + shield = 8 x 90 impen (purple) = 720 impenetrable rating. Which I think means that no one under 72% chance to crit can crit me.

It's the only way to survive lethal arrow and ambush stun locks for me it seems (light armor user)

I can crit you, and my base crit is 55. Shadowy Disguise gives me an actual crit rate of 155% =D

Downside is its only good for 2-3 shots before im out of magicka (with enough left to mist or stealth out to reset)

Well, true, but NBs aren't the only gankers out there...

Syntse · October 2014

Etaniel wrote: »

To everyone saying L2P, shield stack, stack impen, reflective scale roll dodge and so on, the typical scenario here is you're travelling between two keeps or outposts and you're getting sneak attacked. So impen doesn't work here because it is a sneak attack crit, second, a good ganker can get enough dmg to kill you in .3 sec by doing a snipe, following with a heavy attack/poison shot. They all land pretty much at the same time.

This exactly... yes it must be annoying for people but really they seem to think that it should not be possible to kill them from stealth when they are ambushed while they ride their horse, or at least give them fair chance to fight back. (I'm sure J.F.K. thinks the same currently)

Etaniel wrote: »

I'm not complaining though, because these players are pretty much useless in a larger battle, and can't do anything if they can't engage you stealthed.

And this too...

Jitterbug · October 2014

drkeys143 wrote: »

Aww did the nasty man kill you with an arrow? Get over it for goodness sake

Haha, couldn't help but think of soccer players rolling on the grass in pain because a ball hit them on the shoulder :-P

Sublime · October 2014

FYI: Stealth attacks from the back always crit, no matter how much impen/crit rate you have.

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

I survive lethal arrows gankers all the time and i'm wearing light armor. Impen + play smart. Archers are pretty much dead if I get my hands on them

This this this this this this this.

I'm a NB, my build is not tank (I'm just not dumb enough to walk around with 2.5k health) it's burst damage and I lol at bow users these days (and I've run my fair share of bow builds).

Ever since the buffs they are everywhere, scrubs running around thinking they'll get easy kills, they have no ability to heal, no ability to out damage me from once they are out of stealth and the only way they can kill me is to wait till I'm mid combat with someone else.

Still thanks to naff players dying to bows NBs now take a hit to our stealth damage.

Valymer · October 2014

Sublime wrote: »

FYI: Stealth attacks from the back always crit, no matter how much impen/crit rate you have.

It's not so much to negate the first stealth hit, but to stop the subsequent poison arrows or light/heavy attacks from critting...because if one of those crits there isn't much chance to block/streak/shield/heal.

But also I've noticed that sometimes the game doesn't recognize that you are behind a target for a sneak attack, usually when you are just barely behind them or in times of high lag. So basically impen is a good investment no matter what, but you have to be able to survive the initial sneak attack snipe damage or else that won't help much, I agree.

Yusuf · October 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Good to have some different types of "I win" builds, or are these reserved for magicka only builds?

At least magicka-builds show themselves and don't hide like little rats

SienneYviete · October 2014

Valymer wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Valymer wrote: »

270 impenetrable rating is only 27% reduced chance for opponent to crit...

With potions and the right build, people can easily hit 80%+ chance to crit. I personally went full impenetrable--7 armor + shield = 8 x 90 impen (purple) = 720 impenetrable rating. Which I think means that no one under 72% chance to crit can crit me.

It's the only way to survive lethal arrow and ambush stun locks for me it seems (light armor user)

I can crit you, and my base crit is 55. Shadowy Disguise gives me an actual crit rate of 155% =D

Downside is its only good for 2-3 shots before im out of magicka (with enough left to mist or stealth out to reset)

Well, true, but NBs aren't the only gankers out there...

Agreed, a bow/ 1h shield weapon crit & weapon damage stacking DK build is pretty decent.

CapuchinSeven · October 2014

Etaniel wrote: »

To everyone saying L2P, shield stack, stack impen, reflective scale roll dodge and so on, the typical scenario here is you're travelling between two keeps or outposts and you're getting sneak attacked. So impen doesn't work here because it is a sneak attack crit, second, a good ganker can get enough dmg to kill you in .3 sec by doing a snipe, following with a heavy attack/poison shot. They all land pretty much at the same time.

The only way to survive this is to actually hear the snipe coming, allowing you to roll dodge or block or whatever. Surviving these attacks is about muting your horse footsteps and muting ts so you can actually hear it coming.

That or hold block the whole way and lose 5 minutes every time you have to travel somewhere in Cyrodil.

I'm not complaining though, because these players are pretty much useless in a larger battle, and can't do anything if they can't engage you stealthed.

Just please stop telling folks to L2P about this one, it has nothing to do with skill

Stop holding never ending sprint on your horse.

Stop having a tiny tiny health pool so you don't survive before the stun breaks.

Stop being unable to shield then heal yourself but still expecting someone else to do it for you.

I can go on.

Nidwin · October 2014

This belongs to the
"Ouch, that did hurt!"
thread

It's actually fine to have this stuff in game and I don't mind it actually. And I'm on the receiving side here.

1. It's single target
2. It does require some kind of skill (mostly timing and being sneaky) if it's not scripted
3. There's a random factor in it so it won't always mean death
4. Player has to give up a lot of stuff for this kind of build

When I'm able to light up some sneaky sneaky with a blinding javelin by seeing through his sneaky sneaky attitude with magelight, I've my revenge and it makes my day.

michael_bimson · October 2014

A stealth based bow/snipe build is powerful, but then it should be. It does not need nerfing because of the sacrifice necessary in making the build viable. As others have stated, if the target player lives through the initial burst the ganker is almost certainly going to lose.

It fills one very specific niche very well (ganking individual players who aren't paying enough attention). Its a good build when there is a wall between this build and other players but in almost all other circumstances and against any alert opponent its just walking AP.

Rylana · October 2014

michael_bimson wrote: »

A stealth based bow/snipe build is powerful, but then it should be. It does not need nerfing because of the sacrifice necessary in making the build viable. As others have stated, if the target player lives through the initial burst the ganker is almost certainly going to lose.

It fills one very specific niche very well (ganking individual players who aren't paying enough attention). Its a good build when there is a wall between this build and other players but in almost all other circumstances and against any alert opponent its just walking AP.

Not always though. Depending on how well I scouted my opponent (and believe me, some kills were stalked for a while before I hit them) I might have slotted other things on the second bar under the belief that my initial burst MIGHT not be enough.

It is a horrible moment, when you get a shield stack/flapflap DK to 200 health and he comes right at you unabashed

But then you swap bars and have the tools to deal with him. If not finish the kill, at least prevent him from killing you.

Ezareth · October 2014

Attacks like this are why when I'm going anywhere I have my sword/shield out and I'm rolling around in 3700+ hitpoints.

As soon as you get the snipe indication, break free, barrel roll, tri-stat, shield to holy hell, turn around and shove that bow up the 2400 hp NBs arse that tried to snipe you.

bosmern_ESO · October 2014

Would you rather have died to a impulse bat swarm spam group?

Maulkin · October 2014

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Attacks like this are why when I'm going anywhere I have my sword/shield out and I'm rolling around in 3700+ hitpoints.

As soon as you get the snipe indication, break free, barrel roll, tri-stat, shield to holy hell, turn around and shove that bow up the 2400 hp NBs arse that tried to snipe you.

Ha ha, that reminds me of my retreating manoeuvre when being chased by an angry zerg. roll>Streak>roll>Streak(out of Shield Charge range)> Shield Stack holding block> Chug Potion> roll>Streak>Streak>Streak> hide behind obstacle to break line of sight.

Works most of the times, unless you head straight into a stealthed ganker that is

Wreuntzylla · October 2014

Etaniel wrote: »

I'm not complaining though, because these players are pretty much useless in a larger battle, and can't do anything if they can't engage you stealthed.

If you don't group, every time you kill your opponent, you are automatically disengaged from combat. I love my kill count in larger battles...

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO · October 2014

Seriously people don't understand how specialized this kind of build is and how much is sacrificed to obtain these numbers. Your survivability becomes a joke, and you need to be very picky with target selection. If you shoot everything you'll die, too.

Im leveling a NB right now with the intent of running a Sniper build, but in the meantime my DK has been sniping and it's a challenge sometimes. Have to know when you can pursue and when it's time to run. Obviously GDB alleviates some of the survivability issue, but still nowhere near enough.

And hitting 2k+ is an extreme rarity. So far I've only done one 2k+ hit in PvP. Why are we trying to nerf one skill that has 50 different counters to it?

jelliedsoup · October 2014

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

Seriously people don't understand how specialized this kind of build is and how much is sacrificed to obtain these numbers. Your survivability becomes a joke, and you need to be very picky with target selection. If you shoot everything you'll die, too.

Im leveling a NB right now with the intent of running a Sniper build, but in the meantime my DK has been sniping and it's a challenge sometimes. Have to know when you can pursue and when it's time to run. Obviously GDB alleviates some of the survivability issue, but still nowhere near enough.

And hitting 2k+ is an extreme rarity. So far I've only done one 2k+ hit in PvP. Why are we trying to nerf one skill that has 50 different counters to it?

Mainly as zos is not a fan of stamina builds.

khele23eb17_ESO · October 2014

You mean the old, soon to be gone 'I win, if you have crap HP and cant block/cast' button? :P

Durham · October 2014

No way should that ability do 2k damage period

Durham · October 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

Seriously people don't understand how specialized this kind of build is and how much is sacrificed to obtain these numbers. Your survivability becomes a joke, and you need to be very picky with target selection. If you shoot everything you'll die, too.

Im leveling a NB right now with the intent of running a Sniper build, but in the meantime my DK has been sniping and it's a challenge sometimes. Have to know when you can pursue and when it's time to run. Obviously GDB alleviates some of the survivability issue, but still nowhere near enough.

And hitting 2k+ is an extreme rarity. So far I've only done one 2k+ hit in PvP. Why are we trying to nerf one skill that has 50 different counters to it?

Mainly as zos is not a fan of stamina builds.

Well there are stamina buffs on the test server....