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FIX THE ROOT SPAM ALREADY!
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Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭if that happens, then 95% of the DKs in this game would be completely lost.
ZOS wont risk that.8 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why is that Cody?
They just need to give immunity timer like the hard CCs. This is the most logical way to reduce spam. They already announced that couple patches ago but I wonder when it will come to live. Next ice age?
The current state is just plain stupid. You dodge, they spam again, then you dodge again or purge maybe..rinse and repeat... All stamina is lost ridiculously. Especially if you use stamina to deal damage instead of magicka.
1h/s ability Crippling Slash on the other hand, you can block the root effect. And it's totally fine like you can block the knockbacks. So why class roots are unblockable? Or why no any counter other than dodge and purge?Edited by Soris on October 19, 2014 11:26AMWelkynd [Templar/AD/EU]1 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why is that Cody?
They just need to give immunity timer like the hard CCs. This is the most logical way to reduce spam. They already announced that couple patches ago but I wonder when it will come to live. Next ice age?
The current state is just plain stupid. You dodge, they spam again, then you dodge again or purge maybe..rinse and repeat... All stamina is lost ridiculously. Especially if you use stamina to deal damage instead of magicka.
1h/s ability Crippling Slash on the other hand, you can block the root effect. And it's totally fine like you can block the knockbacks. So why class roots are unblockable? Or why no any counter other than dodge and purge?
they would be lost because most DKs do the charge/root spam/whip spam tactic. if their roots actually had a weakness, they would have to find a whole new build to use.
it would be nice if we had an immunity timer of sorts against crap like talons.4 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭My fundamental problem with Talon spam is this. It's way cheaper for me to cast a 300 magicka skill like Talons, than countering it with a dodge roll. It doesn't really matter how you're built, dodge rolling is always more costly than using a skill, in terms of resource management.
Not all of us cant Bolt Escape out of roots
Stamina builds cant afford to waste their resources on endless rolling.
Magicka builds dont have enough stamina to CC break and counter Talon spam period.
Sure, you can Purge the Talons. That could potentially be balanced in terms of recourse costs. Efficient Purge and Talons costs about the same. Sadly Purge only removes 2 negatives effects, meaning you're usually forced to use it twice to get out of Talons. There's always the burning and something else on you. But you dont have to use Talon twice, to root someone lol.
Root spam v.s. dodge just doesn't add up. Some sort of brief immunity timer would be nice.5 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've said it many times. Talons is unlike any skill in the game. Its root just needs to be affected by immunity timers. Feel free to buff its dmg back to what it was. Just as long as the root spam stops.3 -
Khivas_Carrick✭✭✭✭✭Oh look, another thread/topic about Dragonknights and their Talon Spam.
I wonder if anybody has notified @ZoS about this one yet, because it really is quite the issue these days.Bobbity Boop, this game might become poop, but I'll still play because I'm just a pile of goop!3 -
david.haypreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭My fundamental problem with Talon spam is this. It's way cheaper for me to cast a 300 magicka skill like Talons, than countering it with a dodge roll. It doesn't really matter how you're built, dodge rolling is always more costly than using a skill, in terms of resource management.
Not all of us cant Bolt Escape out of roots
Stamina builds cant afford to waste their resources on endless rolling.
Magicka builds dont have enough stamina to CC break and counter Talon spam period.
Sure, you can Purge the Talons. That could potentially be balanced in terms of recourse costs. Efficient Purge and Talons costs about the same. Sadly Purge only removes 2 negatives effects, meaning you're usually forced to use it twice to get out of Talons. There's always the burning and something else on you. But you dont have to use Talon twice, to root someone lol.
Root spam v.s. dodge just doesn't add up. Some sort of brief immunity timer would be nice.
This right here is the problem, and I couldn't have said it better myself.
Templars are 'just slower... by design'
Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
VR 16 Sorcerer
38 Nightblade
24 DK4 -
Francescolg✭✭✭✭Khivas_Carrick wrote: »I wonder if anybody has notified @ZoS about this one yet, because it really is quite the issue these days.
"We" have, I did it at least 5 times. Problem is, every second (PvP) char is soon, or already is, a DK. And Talon-spamming means so much to them that ZoS thinks twice about it and some of the developers, the responsible ones, are not willing to make concessions..1 -
Yusuf✭✭✭✭✭Show me any RANGED DK-Class-Skill before you even think about that (and don't tell me about the chains).
Yeah, that's right. Talons is DK's bread and butter. Learn to dodgeroll, purge , maneuver or deal with it.
And i'm not even a DK-.-7 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Show me any RANGED DK-Class-Skill before you even think about that (and don't tell me about the chains).
Yeah, that's right. Talons is DK's bread and butter. Learn to dodgeroll, purge , maneuver or deal with it.
And i'm not even a DK-.-
So if someone have no ranged class skill, then give them exploitable root to spam it after every 3 seconds without any immunity? That's an interesting logic right here.
And also why do you need a ranged skill when you have wings to reflect %90 of ranged skills in game?
Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]4 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Show me any RANGED DK-Class-Skill before you even think about that (and don't tell me about the chains).
Yeah, that's right. Talons is DK's bread and butter. Learn to dodgeroll, purge , maneuver or deal with it.
And i'm not even a DK-.-
I WAS going to do what I usually do, and give a page long response, but no. I wont do it this time.
play PvP, find a DK, get affected by talon spam, find yourself doing nothing but f***** rolling the whole time, then come back and say what you just said.
not everyone uses(or can use) purge. I, for example, CANT use any kind of purge. it would mess up my build if I did. Same for many people. maneuver.....? you cant out maneuver an ability that roots players from the front, sides, and behind. you could get out of range... but then you will be shield charged, then taloned, then whip spammed. dodging/blocking a shield charge is not cheap.
if ZOS is going to give CC immunity timer, may as well go all the way and do the same with roots. the Block and cast nonsense is bad enough, talon spam only makes it way more annoying than it needs to be.
I don't think that was a page long.... ah well.Edited by Cody on October 26, 2014 3:53AM5 -
Yusuf✭✭✭✭✭As a Sorc you can give them a tase of their own medicine and use Invasion+Shattering Prison. As a Nightblade you can fear them with Mass Hysteria and as a Templar you can Blazing Shield him to Death. Even if you're rooted you can still use Streak or Ambush
2 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As a Sorc you can give them a tase of their own medicine and use Invasion+Shattering Prison. As a Nightblade you can fear them with Mass Hysteria and as a Templar you can Blazing Shield him to Death. Even if you're rooted you can still use Streak or Ambush
that does not excuse how ridiculous the root spam tactic is.
2 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have trouble understanding how people have a problem with this, Cloak, Purge, Dodge Roll, Blinding Flash, Shade Teleport...
Honestly that's just the skills off the top of my head that I use to deal with DKs, the ones that are clearly tanked up, I just walk away from, they are of no real danger to anyone other than the fools who try and fight them alone.0 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have trouble understanding you. What you mean? When I see a DK, should I just walk away?
Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]1 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have trouble understanding you. What you mean? When I see a DK, should I just walk away?Yea some seem to imply that fighting a DK is best solved by going away. Figting a DK up close means to run, because DK are supposedly unable to be defeated in close quarters.
No, I said the tanked up DK's, as in the dumb players that go totally overboard on survivabiltiy and think they are being useful but can't actually kill anything and can't really actually stop me just stealthing and walking away to do something useful.
The best way to beat them is to walk away, they are useless and just slow people up on the way to the actual battle.
As I said, when it comes to root spam, I just don't have a problem with it - Cloak, Purge, Dodge Roll, Blinding Flash, Shade Teleport, any one of those will get me out of the problem or avoid it happening in the first place.
In fact Blinding Flashes are pretty much a DK nullify for most DK builds.0 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭If there are cc immunites in the game - they must apply to anything that causes u to need to spend stamina to get out of. This includes root surely.......1
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Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Same appiles to some hard CCs like Fear, Blazing Spear, Biting Jabs and Power Bash. If you don't break it, it can be spammed multiple times and you stuck in CC forever.
It has to be fixed and you know that.
@ZOS @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheelerEdited by Soris on November 21, 2014 5:43PMWelkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Same appiles to some hard CCs like Fear, Blazing Spear, Biting Jabs and Power Bash. If you don't break it, it can be spammed multiple times and you stuck in CC forever.
It has to be fixed and you know that.
@ZOS @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
I seriously hope you do not expect a reply from them ROFL! You need to talk about puppies, what you had for breakfast, or ask if 1.6 is going to PTS in order to get a green to respond. Or there is the classic method, TROLL threads and create chaos! Then they will come in once everyone is "text yelling" and being mean and they will close thread or remove post while ignoring what people wanted to know :P This has been a PSA!
P.S. if you dont have stamina to break out, or you dont want to waste stamina then you deserve to get rooted over and over and over again. Just like if you refuse to move out of AoE (pathetic as most are), or ultimates, or the classic bat swarm, then you deserve to die since you chose to stand in there.
If they added a timer to how long you can be rooted or stunned AFTER it has happened once and you decided to NOT use stamina to break out or dodge roll, then you just made DK's king (more so than normal) since they will ignore using stamina to break out of CC since the game will make them auto immune.......
this means have fun trying to get them to waste their stamina so they cant block anymore and you can stun lock them to death.....Edited by Gorthax on November 21, 2014 7:28PM0 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭You sure while saying if I don't use break free, than I deserve being stunned over and over again(nonstop) because of a broken mechanic?
Any hard CC is supposed to have an immunity timer either you use break free or you don't. And it's not gonna make anyone a "king" since if you don't break free, you have to wait and become vulnerable until the stun effect is over. Also, the immunity timer is working just fine with some hard CCs like shield charge, obsidian shard, or piercing spear etc, but it doesn't work with said skills above, in my previous post.
Though, iirc there isn't any official response to this issue. We don't know it's intended or not. But I want to believe it's not intended. Because you shouldn't CC someone for such long amounts of time and nonstop.
Same with roots.. What's the point of rolling out of it? You'll be rooted again the moment you finish your dodge animation.
Though again, it's totally fine for my templar. I just send all the the damage back at themselves with my dem blazing shield. It's just annoying for me to being rooted over and over. However it's bit of problematic for other classes and ESPECIALLY stamina builds of any kind.
edit: typos&layoutEdited by Soris on November 21, 2014 8:35PMWelkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Do you know how costly Mass Hysteria is to use? Also do you realize it only works on 2 targets at a time so much for "mass". People can block while feared and it does 0 damage unlike talons. How can you honestly compare the two. Here's the problem with DKs:As a Sorc you can give them a tase of their own medicine and use Invasion+Shattering Prison. As a Nightblade you can fear them with Mass Hysteria and as a Templar you can Blazing Shield him to Death. Even if you're rooted you can still use Streak or Ambush
They have the best defense in the game:- Reflective Scale protects them from 90% of all ranged attacks while also damaging their enemy.
- Green Dragon Blood is hands down the best self heal in the game:
- They have two damage shields Obsidian Shield and Spiked armor.
- Stone Fist
- Petrify
- Talons and Ash Cloud.
All this and I haven't even included their Ultimates.
Yes, they need a significant nerf to many of these abilities. They are the only class that has been relatively untouched by the nerf bat.
The worst part is when they cry that they are dying to lethal arrow, or they can't kill a bolt escaping sorcerer when they really should have just kept quiet. I hope they get nerfed and I hope they get nerfed hard. Then they will really have a reason to cry.Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on November 21, 2014 9:57PM:trollin:3 -
kewl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Show me any RANGED DK-Class-Skill before you even think about that (and don't tell me about the chains).
Yeah, that's right. Talons is DK's bread and butter. Learn to dodgeroll, purge , maneuver or deal with it.
And i'm not even a DK-.-
You could use Crushing Shock like most Sorcs do?1 -
Pyatra✭✭✭You sure while saying if I don't use break free, than I deserve being stunned over and over again(nonstop) because of a broken mechanic?
Any hard CC is supposed to have an immunity timer either you use break free or you don't. And it's not gonna make anyone a "king" since if you don't break free, you have to wait and become vulnerable until the stun effect is over. Also, the immunity timer is working just fine with some hard CCs like shield charge, obsidian shard, or piercing spear etc, but it doesn't work with said skills above, in my previous post.
Though, iirc there isn't any official response to this issue. We don't know it's intended or not. But I want to believe it's not intended. Because you shouldn't CC someone for such long amounts of time and nonstop.
Same with roots.. What's the point of rolling out of it? You'll be rooted again the moment you finish your dodge animation.
Though again, it's totally fine for my templar. I just send all the the damage back at themselves with my dem blazing shield. It's just annoying for me to being rooted over and over. However it's bit of problematic for other classes and ESPECIALLY stamina builds of any kind.
edit: typos&layout
I have to agree, whenever I dodge or I see anyone else dodge they are still in Talons after the animation. I've just stopped carring, I see reflective wings or talons, I go out of my way and spam 20 Encases on them, blowing a Warlock proc. BTW unless someone kills me I can literally make 6 people useless (just like a DK) by either myself or someone else adding one of the other CCs. Can't break, can't dodge. I guess if Sorcs did that more the fix would actually happen.
Edited by Pyatra on November 24, 2014 4:54PM1
