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Oilpots getting a big change/nerf
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nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this is a mistake. Should have made it friendly fire. Then the pot users would have to think about where they put it. Also, the friendlies would have to think about where the pot user is pouring it down. This would make the war interesting. Instead I feel like the easy button is being used to fix it.
Most certainly not friendly fire. You think the ones placing troll camps are bad? What do you think they will do when they get the opportunity to wipe whole zergs of same-faction players during keep defense?
Well you of course need a system to record how much allied player damage you do and if you do too much you simply get banned from the game.
That is the system they have in world of tanks and it works really well.
Personally I would REALLY love a friendly fire system, it would introduce personal skill into the game and make zergballs an impossibility.2 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭Perfectly resonable to me.
I would say like some others friendly fire could also be a valid solution , but trully , i agree that trolls would end up using it."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor2 -
Nox_Aeterna✭✭✭✭✭
✭nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »I think this is a mistake. Should have made it friendly fire. Then the pot users would have to think about where they put it. Also, the friendlies would have to think about where the pot user is pouring it down. This would make the war interesting. Instead I feel like the easy button is being used to fix it.
Most certainly not friendly fire. You think the ones placing troll camps are bad? What do you think they will do when they get the opportunity to wipe whole zergs of same-faction players during keep defense?
Well you of course need a system to record how much allied player damage you do and if you do too much you simply get banned from the game.
That is the system they have in world of tanks and it works really well.
Personally I would REALLY love a friendly fire system, it would introduce personal skill into the game and make zergballs an impossibility.
pfff , i would probably spend more time trying to kill the players of my own faction that killed me than the enemies."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
-Hanlon's razor0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »I think this is a mistake. Should have made it friendly fire. Then the pot users would have to think about where they put it. Also, the friendlies would have to think about where the pot user is pouring it down. This would make the war interesting. Instead I feel like the easy button is being used to fix it.
Most certainly not friendly fire. You think the ones placing troll camps are bad? What do you think they will do when they get the opportunity to wipe whole zergs of same-faction players during keep defense?
Well you of course need a system to record how much allied player damage you do and if you do too much you simply get banned from the game.
That is the system they have in world of tanks and it works really well.
World of tanks is a f2p game. The company running it does not lose anything when banning such players. ZOS doing this would lose money because they would be banning subscribers. Much better to not give griefers more tools for griefing in the firstplace and keep the money.
Also think the implications. Friendlies mixed with enemies in a furball on a keep flag. Oil them from above or not? If you don't, you might lose the keep. If you do, you might get banned. That's really not a dilemma i would like to face during every keep siege.3 -
kijima✭✭✭✭✭
✭A few people in this thread have mentioned without oils, keeps will be hard to defend, especially the the back flags.
I have one word for you
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Mercs
Yup, they are back!Been here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...4 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think this is a mistake. Should have made it friendly fire. Then the pot users would have to think about where they put it. Also, the friendlies would have to think about where the pot user is pouring it down. This would make the war interesting. Instead I feel like the easy button is being used to fix it.
Most certainly not friendly fire. The kind of people who like placing troll camps would get the opportunity to wipe whole zergs of same-faction players during keep defense. It would be a griefer's paradise.
@Sharee , how about friendly fire - initiator only. Don't want people to be able to purposely disrupt their own faction under the guise of 'Ally.'
However, it seems reasonable that should someone wish to save their resource/keep via oil pot on a flat surface, they should expect to self-sacrifice in the process?
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I always thought it was really weird that you could set an oil pot on the floor and have it sit there, without spilling, doing damage. Was it radioactive?Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
More often you have an group of players surrounding the oil pot doing aoe making it hard to see and suddenly everybody takes ton of damage,nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »God forbid you should actually have to loose to a greater force than your own, or, oh, I dunno. Using skill and tactics instead of hiding behind a dozen oil pots like cowards? Waaaaahhhh....
Skill and tactics in the impulse zergball....... omfg. If you think that it represent any kind of skill then there is nothing to discuss.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Fafnisbane✭✭Fafnisbane wrote: »Zenimax, please, PLEASE do not do this. This is one of the worst imaginable changes that you can make to the game.
.......
I cannot emphasize enough how terrible a decision this is.
Holy crap. Do people really like this kind of combat that we are in right now forcing you to set up oceans of oil pots all over? So boring! Come on do you people (those opposed to this) really like to play pvp this way? Finally there will be no more reason for some dweeb to yell that we suck because we are not setting up on the oil pot ocean. Good riddance. Good bye...good night!
I assume you're referring to zerging. No, I hate zerging, that's why I want us to have oil as an option to kill zergs. Removing oil strengthens the zerg.0 -
Fafnisbane✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »God forbid you should actually have to loose to a greater force than your own, or, oh, I dunno. Using skill and tactics instead of hiding behind a dozen oil pots like cowards? Waaaaahhhh....
God forbid a smaller force might possibly beat a larger one by defending a fortified position.
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ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭Awesome change. Oil pots are stupid anyways. Cant tell you how many times I wiped groups of 5-10 by myself by dropping an oil pot on top of them. 0 skill involved.Edited by ExiledKhallisi on October 21, 2014 8:55PM>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War1 -
Asgari✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I cant wait until those who are for this change beg and cry for ZOS to revert the change! LONG LIVE THE DK VAMP!!!Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
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Fafnisbane✭✭I think we all want the same thing. Glorious, open-field pvp, where individual players and small groups of players can use a wide variety of skills and combinations of skills against other individual players and small groups of players. Where each build has its own advantages and disadvantages, and every player's personal skill is the most important factor.
What we do not want, I think, is impulsebatswarmzergtrains (TM). Almost everyone seems to hate the impulsebatswarmzergtrains in Cyrodiil, because they necessitate large groups and make small- and medium-scale pvp almost impossible.
Here's the thing. Impulsebatswarmzergtrains are caused directly by the AOE cap.
The way the AOE cap has worked since the beginning of the game (they might change it at some point) as that an AOE attack will only hit a maximum of 6 targets in its area. Drop a Blazing Spear on a group of five people, it damages all five. On six, it damages all six. On seven -- one of those people take NO DAMAGE. If you have a massive group of 30 bunched up together, 24 of those people take NO DAMAGE because of the AOE cap. It is therefore in their interest to bunch together and become an impulsebatswarmzergtrain, because that way they are functionally immune to AOE damage.
Where does oil come into this? Oil pots, like all siege weapons, ignore the AOE cap. If I drop oil or a fire ballista on a group of ten, it damages all ten. If I oil a group of 30 people all bunched up together, all thirty of them take damage.
In other words, siege is the only thing that an impulsebatswarmzergtrain has to fear. On a keep flag, that means that oil is the only thing they have to fear -- and even that they don't have to fear very much, because of Efficient Purge, but it can at least DAMAGE them a little bit.
Remove oil, and the impulsebatswarmzergtrains have no disincentive whatsoever to be impulsebatswarmzergtrains. Remove oil, and the impulsebatswarmzergtrains have no disincentive whatsoever not to go all-vampire (as many of the top guilds in Cyrodiil are currently).
If you're in favor of impulsebatswarmzergtrains, then yes, you should be opposed to oil. If you hate impulsebatswarmzergtrains and want small-scale pvp, where individual skills matter and it's not just button-mashing, then you should be begging Zenimax not to nerf oil, or at least to wait until they actually remove the AOE caps (as opposed to just talking about doing it in some update at some point in the future).1 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teargrants wrote: »I think it's quite telling how the majority of posters in the Alliance War oil thread are opposed to the nerf, while the majority here in General Discussion think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Maybe the OP is like me and avoids the PvP forums because they tend to be a bunch of insulting braggarts and it's hard to have a discussion that does not involve "butthurt", "L2P", "look at how awesome I am", etc.
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SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »SteveCampsOut wrote: »God forbid you should actually have to loose to a greater force than your own, or, oh, I dunno. Using skill and tactics instead of hiding behind a dozen oil pots like cowards? Waaaaahhhh....
Skill and tactics in the impulse zergball....... omfg. If you think that it represent any kind of skill then there is nothing to discuss.
You totally misread me if that's what you got out of my post! Using Oil on Stairs takes no skill obviously! I meant, learning to use tactics and skill to break up a zerg is how you handle a zerg! Reading Comprehension fail on your part.
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Frenkthevile✭✭✭✭You cannot defend a fortress with walls destroyed by holding a single tower with dozens of Oil Pots.
It's war, guys.
The problem was that a little group could farm noobs with unrealistic radioactive Oil pots in small areas. I don't think that numbers are so useless in real warfare...i mean, c'mon, a guild of 50 pple HAS to be able to insta-wipe even a party of 4 Pots-deploying-Emperors imho!!!Edited by Frenkthevile on October 21, 2014 10:57PM0 -
kewl✭✭✭✭✭
✭This
And thisFafnisbane wrote: »I assume you're referring to zerging. No, I hate zerging, that's why I want us to have oil as an option to kill zergs. Removing oil strengthens the zerg.Fafnisbane wrote: »God forbid a smaller force might possibly beat a larger one by defending a fortified position.
Finally, good luck defending a resource pin.0 -
Gillysan✭✭✭✭Friendly fire - that is true, the current game would be terrible for this. However, it has been done elsewhere. EVE Killmails for example and other ways of seeing what other people are doing. So ESO were to adopt it, it would have to be a complete overhaul of the game to include friendly fire as a global mechanic. This would be a really big topic so I withdraw .... part of this.
How about FF that doesn't kill but causes say a movement debuff. Reduced health regen. Anything that makes the oil pot user have to think & comrades watch out for.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with 'remove aoe caps' camp, but I do agree that is something they need to review. One point on the way current oil pots work is that it's not a ranged attack and it's not a particularly fast or slow cast. Instead of such a change as minimum distance they should simply tweak the radius a little and reduce the use timer. An oil pot should take longer like trebuchet time to use again. Right now it is similar to a regular long cast skill.
In regards to aoe, I would hope in time there are other aoe like defenses introduced. Pungi sticks and other barriers that cause some damage or slows down a zerg. Fire bails, deployable wasp nests. Maybe things that don't outright kill but makes crashing through a breach harder. I suppose Mercs are a part of their addressing these things, but I wasn't around then to evaluate that since I'm somewhat recent to pvp.
PS - there is the Justice System they are working on. Quite a lot of potential there I think if they include Cyrodiil pvp in some way.Crafting Services http://tinyurl.com/GillysansStore Organizational Guide http://tinyurl.com/GillysansEnchanterLeveling
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