Yeah Inspection with making build public or not would work as well.

lordspyder wrote: »

here's my experience with WoW. I got really heavy into playing during Burring Crusade. I ding 70, have cleared all the Dungeons up to that point, so what's next? I look for a group to do Heroics, you would think that would be the next logical step. So I get in a group and instantly get inspected. "Oh man, I'm sorry, your gear isn't good enough, come back when you have better gear" /kicked. This happens again and again. So I ask, how do I get better gear? "run the heroics with your guild. Well my guild was small and made up of close real life friends. Being in the Military and my friends back at home, it was hard for us to match our schedules to put a 5 man team together, but I wasn't going to leave this guild of people I really cared about. So I ran PvP for a while, but that's not too much fun for me.

Finally Wrath came out and I leveled to 80. "LFG for heroics." Same results, so back to PvP for me. But again, not too much fun to be had there. I had my finger hovering over the unsub button then LFG tool came out. I queue up for a heroic, get in a group and speed run to the end, not a single death. It was so much more fun than PvP. I met some cool people talked about how to better my self and had a really great time. Eventually I leveled a tank and healer and had no trouble with the heroics there either.

The point is if we have this inspect feature, people will only take others with gear equivalent to the content that they're running. "But why would you want to play with these people?" Because the community has a way of turning every one into that type of person. It becomes if you don't have x gear, you won't run the content. Period. That is not fun and will drive a lot of people away.

It's not the community "turning everyone" into that type of person. It is something ingrained into human psychology and exists everywhere in life.

Didn't get picked for your school's football team? Those elitist jerks!
Didn't get invited to a party? Those elitist jerks!

I could go on...


What WoW did was spot on (atleast when I played it in Vanilla/TBC). You go through easier content to get good enough gear to beat the harder content.
That way you don't skip content and then complain in one week that there's nothing to do.

Lacking a better metaphor, it's like you were a mediocre soccer player & expected to start your career by playing in La Liga.

ViciousWayz wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

It's amazing how people keep QQing and giving *** excuses but none has an answer to the following things that have been said over and over again:

- Why would you want to play with those "Elitist Jerks"? They don't want to play with you anyways .
- Why do you care since obviously a majority thinks like you and you can group with them and leave "elitits" alone? Shouldn't be harder to find a group than it is now.

We all know that all you guys say is just excuses you don't even believe, because you want to continue getting carried and crashing groups of "Elitist Jerks" that you clearly despise but strangely want to play with badly.

Elitits... nice typo brah.

I'm guessing you are voting for. There isn't a thing in this game that I can not tackle and if it requires a group I have some awesome players who I game with regularly when I am doing group content. With that said, we laugh at "elitists", ya know.. people who think they are good but really are nothing more than mediocre. The only reason I don't want inspect is because I don't want people cloning my stats. I put a lot of thought into them and have no desire for nublets who think they are good but aren't so want a way to copy other players without revealing their lack-of-knowing like yourself to be copying.

However, I do take the time to explain the game to those who are new to it or new to MMOs and help them with builds, even craft them free sets sometimes. Elitist does not equal Elite. Remember that. Elite can be shown through skills and clutch moments. Elitists are really only good in their own minds but most likely are nothing more than meh when put to the test.

Now that is a valid concern, and easily remedied by making it optional whether you allow yourself be inspected or not (or they could go more advanced & make it separate for both armour & stats/skills)

Also remember that if they make armour sets with unique visuals, people will be able to determine what you are wearing anyhow

lordspyder wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

lordspyder wrote: »

here's my experience with WoW. I got really heavy into playing during Burring Crusade. I ding 70, have cleared all the Dungeons up to that point, so what's next? I look for a group to do Heroics, you would think that would be the next logical step. So I get in a group and instantly get inspected. "Oh man, I'm sorry, your gear isn't good enough, come back when you have better gear" /kicked. This happens again and again. So I ask, how do I get better gear? "run the heroics with your guild. Well my guild was small and made up of close real life friends. Being in the Military and my friends back at home, it was hard for us to match our schedules to put a 5 man team together, but I wasn't going to leave this guild of people I really cared about. So I ran PvP for a while, but that's not too much fun for me.

Finally Wrath came out and I leveled to 80. "LFG for heroics." Same results, so back to PvP for me. But again, not too much fun to be had there. I had my finger hovering over the unsub button then LFG tool came out. I queue up for a heroic, get in a group and speed run to the end, not a single death. It was so much more fun than PvP. I met some cool people talked about how to better my self and had a really great time. Eventually I leveled a tank and healer and had no trouble with the heroics there either.

The point is if we have this inspect feature, people will only take others with gear equivalent to the content that they're running. "But why would you want to play with these people?" Because the community has a way of turning every one into that type of person. It becomes if you don't have x gear, you won't run the content. Period. That is not fun and will drive a lot of people away.

It's not the community "turning everyone" into that type of person. It is something ingrained into human psychology and exists everywhere in life.

Didn't get picked for your school's football team? Those elitist jerks!
Didn't get invited to a party? Those elitist jerks!

I could go on...


What WoW did was spot on (atleast when I played it in Vanilla/TBC). You go through easier content to get good enough gear to beat the harder content.
That way you don't skip content and then complain in one week that there's nothing to do.

Lacking a better metaphor, it's like you were a mediocre soccer player & expected to start your career by playing in La Liga.

No, I did the easier content, I was never able to get into heroics because I didn't have the gear from the heroics. I was told to have my guild run me through them before I could PUG. But I explained why that was impossible.

A better metaphor is working my way up through high school and college teams, showing I have the ability and being turned down because I haven't played for La Liga yet.

Well, as I mentioned, it happens no matter what (blame humanity). An inspect feature has nothing to do with it (especially since there's no real gear progression, yet).

No achievement? Good luck finding a Trials group


As for your metaphor, you wouldn't believe how often that happens (in all sports, not just soccer/football)

ViciousWayz wrote: »

Elitits... nice typo brah.

I'm guessing you are voting for. There isn't a thing in this game that I can not tackle and if it requires a group I have some awesome players who I game with regularly when I am doing group content. With that said, we laugh at "elitists", ya know.. people who think they are good but really are nothing more than mediocre. The only reason I don't want inspect is because I don't want people cloning my stats. I put a lot of thought into them and have no desire for nublets who think they are good but aren't so want a way to copy other players without revealing their lack-of-knowing like yourself to be copying.

However, I do take the time to explain the game to those who are new to it or new to MMOs and help them with builds, even craft them free sets sometimes. Elitist does not equal Elite. Remember that. Elite can be shown through skills and clutch moments. Elitists are really only good in their own minds but most likely are nothing more than meh when put to the test.

I am voting for since I don't think gear makes the player but I do think that it helps get a hint about who could use improvement, I can use many different skills sets for my DK (and that's the most important thing IMO, sloted skills and how you use them and understand how they work) but there aren't that many different armors I can wear to maximise DPS/ult regen. I don't care if it has a "set private" option for people who don't want their builds out in the open, especially for PVP or people making max DPS and we can allways ask PUGs or new people in the guilds to unprivate so people don't end up running with PUGS that have no enchants on their green armor pieces.

I agree a lot of people think they are Elite and are not hence the " " when ever I speak of "Elitist players" (which is more a mentality than a true assess of skills IMO). Then again there are groups of people who know their ***, want to do nice things but may not have a good guild or friends to teamup with, and it's normal for them not wanting to group with clueless people and the best/fastest way to clear liars out is through a built-in feature.

lordspyder wrote: »

here's my experience with WoW. I got really heavy into playing during Burring Crusade. I ding 70, have cleared all the Dungeons up to that point, so what's next? I look for a group to do Heroics, you would think that would be the next logical step. So I get in a group and instantly get inspected. "Oh man, I'm sorry, your gear isn't good enough, come back when you have better gear" /kicked. This happens again and again. So I ask, how do I get better gear? "run the heroics with your guild. Well my guild was small and made up of close real life friends. Being in the Military and my friends back at home, it was hard for us to match our schedules to put a 5 man team together, but I wasn't going to leave this guild of people I really cared about. So I ran PvP for a while, but that's not too much fun for me.

Finally Wrath came out and I leveled to 80. "LFG for heroics." Same results, so back to PvP for me. But again, not too much fun to be had there. I had my finger hovering over the unsub button then LFG tool came out. I queue up for a heroic, get in a group and speed run to the end, not a single death. It was so much more fun than PvP. I met some cool people talked about how to better my self and had a really great time. Eventually I leveled a tank and healer and had no trouble with the heroics there either.

The point is if we have this inspect feature, people will only take others with gear equivalent to the content that they're running. "But why would you want to play with these people?" Because the community has a way of turning every one into that type of person. It becomes if you don't have x gear, you won't run the content. Period. That is not fun and will drive a lot of people away.

This isn't WOW nor does it have it's toxic community. I understand your point but it doesn't apply in TESO for many reasons:

- You can have more than one guild. I have a casual guild and a PVE raiding guild.
- Most of the good stuff in this game you can craft. Most of the loot you get in raids sucks big time. In trial loot, only the Aether Set is worth it for DPS and it is acceptable to replace it with other similar armors for people who are beginning raids.
- Many people in the game don't care about armors or stuff and even if you get rejected, once again and as allways, nothing is stoping you from cearting a group and saying "LFM blablaInstance" untill you get a full group of people who, just as you, don't care about armor. I wonder why people allways forget that option is available to them when talking about this.

As for your "LFG Heroics". You clearly got into groups of people who had already cleared the instance and where prolly looking for optimized runs hence they didn't need someone unexperienced but someone experienced with good gear to clear the content faster or what ever. Why should those players waste time taking you along or explaining everything to you when they are looking for a quick run? Once again, you allways have the possibility to team up with people that are in the same situation as yourself. You'll fail a lot sure, but slowly you'll get better gear and meet good players to play with again. Sure it's not the easy "let's find an op group to carry me" way, but it's the way most people who werent traumatized by that game prolly took.

What many people don't understand about almost any competitive game is that most people who are "on top" have been playing the game since beta or launch and they have played actively (just as an example, most of the Challengers and top players in League of Legends played the game since Beta). This is even more true in subscription games where you can't pay to get items and have to work for it in game. The longer/more you play, the more chances of getting higher you have (as long as you got some skill aswell). Of course there are exceptions as usual but most of the time it's like this.

If you want to play at all levels of competition but don't have time to invest in a game, if you think that you shouldn't have to work hard and fail to improve and experience end game content in a game, then Free 2 play (AKA Pay 2 win) is the kind of games you should be playing.

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Then why does trials exist in the game? With leadboards?

Because ZOS is trying to cater to single players and hardcore players at the same time and failing big time at it?
Edit: they are taking steps in the right direction though, gotta recognize that. But as long as the rewards for raiding suck big time and don't make people just want to clear content over and over again, as long as the UI sucks big time, as long as they don't fix the PVP buffs issue, raiding will continue to be MEH.

As for soloers they have most of the game dedicated to them, most of the updates have been about horizontal progression (which is why raiding has so many issues) but they still aren't and wont be happy until the game is just a long quest with new long solo quests every 2 months.