Why does forced solo content exist?

Elvent · October 2014

Something I have always wondered even while playing during the beta when I was having trouble completing some forced solo dungeons. I thought for sure they was going to make them optional on live version but I was wrong.

So can anybody give a reasonable answer why forced solo content exists in a Massively Multiplayer Online game? And why it is not optional like every other MMO?

Is it because of the story? See SWTOR.

Is it because we're supposed to be stressed out because we keep dying and due to certain builds with classes it's almost impossible to do unless you wait a few levels and come back to finish it?

We aren't even going to have this option anymore when the level scaling to solo dungeon content comes out anymore if what I'm reading from other posters is correct.

Wouldn't it make more sense to let the people that only care about a challenge to let them do it solo? And those of us that like to play with our friend instead of being separated for the story and fun and relax and take our time to just do it together and might even have a slight challenge together?

INB4 L2P, Get better, forced solo content best thing to ever happen to MMOs, screw options, Whole game is so easy I can do it with my eyes closed and all other similar rude/hardcore/elitist attitude remarks because you have nothing to provide to the discussion.

Sapphy24 · October 2014

I wonder the same but then, I also wonder why I MUST group to do a lot of things.
Can't have it all ways.

ers101284b14_ESO · October 2014

It worked for FF14

Elvent · October 2014

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

It worked for FF14

What worked for FF14?

Elvikun · October 2014

Yeah, was also about to say "How about forced group content?" too, because, you know, the same thing.
I don't know. It would be nice if you could always chose whether you go solo or not all the time, except for certain story point where it just doesn't make sense, but I guess it's a tradition and no dev is quite at the breaking point.

Elvent · October 2014

Sapphy24 wrote: »

I wonder the same but then, I also wonder why I MUST group to do a lot of things.
Can't have it all ways.

I know it can't be hard to code in to allow forced solo dungeon to be grouped. I understand group content requiring the need for grouping like craglorn and stuff.

I think we need some of that end game type content a mix between grouping and solo. More options is what we need.

Elvent · October 2014

Elvikun wrote: »

Yeah, was also about to say "How about forced group content?" too, because, you know, the same thing.
I don't know. It would be nice if you could always chose whether you go solo or not all the time, except for certain story point where it just doesn't make sense, but I guess it's a tradition and no dev is quite at the breaking point.

That's why I referred to SWTOR, you only play in the leaders story, you are just there and doesn't affect you or anything, you're basically just a helper to the main story person.

ers101284b14_ESO · October 2014

Elvent wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

It worked for FF14

What worked for FF14?

Forced Solo and then Forced grouping. That's pretty much the entire game and people eat that crap up.

Elvent · October 2014

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Elvent wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

It worked for FF14

What worked for FF14?

Forced Solo and then Forced grouping. That's pretty much the entire game and people eat that crap up.

Oh, I only played FF14 for a few hours, I felt it was linear, world was too closed in and a lot of instanced areas, wasn't my type of game but I guess the FF fans would love it. Didn't have to group or anything but then again I only made it to around level 8 when I called it quits.

I still think forced solo content should be optional even if some other games forced solo content is popular.

Elvikun · October 2014

Elvent wrote: »

Elvikun wrote: »

Yeah, was also about to say "How about forced group content?" too, because, you know, the same thing.
I don't know. It would be nice if you could always chose whether you go solo or not all the time, except for certain story point where it just doesn't make sense, but I guess it's a tradition and no dev is quite at the breaking point.

That's why I referred to SWTOR, you only play in the leaders story, you are just there and doesn't affect you or anything, you're basically just a helper to the main story person.

I know, I played SWTOR and I'd like to go "It didn't allow group all the time either" but in truth, it's been way too long for me to say that with any confidence. Had a mountain of forced grouping tho.

Also, just a note, most of the dungeons (or maybe all of them, actually) in ESO saying "Solo" you can enter with a group. Not sure you know, from your first post. But yeah, forced scaling, if it indeed will be forced, for instanced areas is definitely not making the -situation- any better.

Elvent · October 2014

Elvikun wrote: »

Elvent wrote: »

Elvikun wrote: »

Yeah, was also about to say "How about forced group content?" too, because, you know, the same thing.
I don't know. It would be nice if you could always chose whether you go solo or not all the time, except for certain story point where it just doesn't make sense, but I guess it's a tradition and no dev is quite at the breaking point.

That's why I referred to SWTOR, you only play in the leaders story, you are just there and doesn't affect you or anything, you're basically just a helper to the main story person.

I know, I played SWTOR and I'd like to go "It didn't allow group all the time either" but in truth, it's been way too long for me to say that with any confidence. Had a mountain of forced grouping tho.

Also, just a note, most of the dungeons (or maybe all of them, actually) in ESO saying "Solo" you can enter with a group. Not sure you know, from your first post. But yeah, forced scaling, if it indeed will be forced, for instanced areas is definitely not making the -situation- any better.

I don't know, a friend I used to play with quit because we kept being separated in the fight/mage/story quests and she couldn't complete the quests but I could and she quit due to frustration of not being able to complete them and now I'm bored and just ranting I guess.

I had fun playing with a friend, I also didn't like being separated all the time, I wish I could have helped her. I just wish we had the option is all.

Tapio75 · October 2014

Why forced group too? I mean i understand why they are solo but i dont see any problem to give option to at least some of those...

Now Vampire and Werewolf quests.. They absolutely need to be forced solo to keep number of those smaller. To prevent people just getting them for buff in a whim. I think it is good that those are forced as solo..

Honestly i have much more trouble understanding forced group, i mean that forced solo is available to anyone but forced group is often too difficult to be done solo.

Options is the thing needed in both cases exept vamp, werewolf and such.

Elvent · October 2014

Tapio75 wrote: »

Why forced group too? I mean i understand why they are solo but i dont see any problem to give option to at least some of those...

Now Vampire and Werewolf quests.. They absolutely need to be forced solo to keep number of those smaller. To prevent people just getting them for buff in a whim. I think it is good that those are forced as solo..

Honestly i have much more trouble understanding forced group, i mean that forced solo is available to anyone but forced group is often too difficult to be done solo.

Options is the thing needed in both cases exept vamp, werewolf and such.

I can understand forced group content because it's a massively multiplayer online game. Group content should exist in an MMO, it makes sense.

But forced solo content in a massively multiplayer online game with no options at all makes no sense to me.

But I do agree, we need more options for both sides.

For end game we need both solo and group content, I think that expands the life of an MMO, it gives people options, especially in an Elder Scrolls MMO where we kind of expect solo content because of the single player games.

I never gotten vampire/werewolf yet or don't really plan too and I have no clue how it works but if it is required to be forced solo then that's fine, getting a buff and a new talent tree like that should be rewarding and kept like it is.

Forced solo content isn't really rewarding or the loot, it's only the story we're playing and we get a blue ring we will replace in a few levels anways or some loot we won't even use and sell or deconstruct it, it's not really a big deal like the vampire/werewolf is so it would be fine to keep the vamp/wolf forced solo I think.

Ysne58 · October 2014

The three that should not be forced solo are main (including those parts of alliance), mages and fighters. I've arguing this point for months. This aspect is very definitely not play how you want since the main quest actually blocks access to content.

Elvikun · October 2014

Elvent wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Why forced group too? I mean i understand why they are solo but i dont see any problem to give option to at least some of those...

Now Vampire and Werewolf quests.. They absolutely need to be forced solo to keep number of those smaller. To prevent people just getting them for buff in a whim. I think it is good that those are forced as solo..

Honestly i have much more trouble understanding forced group, i mean that forced solo is available to anyone but forced group is often too difficult to be done solo.

Options is the thing needed in both cases exept vamp, werewolf and such.

I can understand forced group content because it's a massively multiplayer online game. Group content should exist in an MMO, it makes sense.

But forced solo content in a massively multiplayer online game with no options at all makes no sense to me.

But I do agree, we need more options for both sides.

You know, pretty much any argument you can make against forced solo content can be just turned around and used as argument against group content, so yeah, it's really both or nothing.

Either way, as you like to play with a friend all the time, I like to play solo all the time. I like MMOs for the huge worlds and various mixed stories, talking to people, trading with people, dancing with people in the city... But most of the time don't feel like waiting unspecified amount of time to get a group of (often very unstable or unpleasant) people to be able to move forward or see the end of the story.

I get it that it can be tricky to make all the content viable for both parties and singles, but let's hope it's moving that way. I think it might be. Can just wait and hope. At the moment, I'm kinda not convinced that Zen knows which way they are going either.

ExiledKhallisi · October 2014

Forced? What are you forced to do? I'm confused

Elvent · October 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Forced? What are you forced to do? I'm confused

Story quests/fighters guild quests/mages guild quests/certain world quests. There's no options to do these with a friend.

Elvent · October 2014

Elvikun wrote: »

Elvent wrote: »

Tapio75 wrote: »

Why forced group too? I mean i understand why they are solo but i dont see any problem to give option to at least some of those...

Now Vampire and Werewolf quests.. They absolutely need to be forced solo to keep number of those smaller. To prevent people just getting them for buff in a whim. I think it is good that those are forced as solo..

Honestly i have much more trouble understanding forced group, i mean that forced solo is available to anyone but forced group is often too difficult to be done solo.

Options is the thing needed in both cases exept vamp, werewolf and such.

I can understand forced group content because it's a massively multiplayer online game. Group content should exist in an MMO, it makes sense.

But forced solo content in a massively multiplayer online game with no options at all makes no sense to me.

But I do agree, we need more options for both sides.

You know, pretty much any argument you can make against forced solo content can be just turned around and used as argument against group content, so yeah, it's really both or nothing.

Either way, as you like to play with a friend all the time, I like to play solo all the time. I like MMOs for the huge worlds and various mixed stories, talking to people, trading with people, dancing with people in the city... But most of the time don't feel like waiting unspecified amount of time to get a group of (often very unstable or unpleasant) people to be able to move forward or see the end of the story.

I get it that it can be tricky to make all the content viable for both parties and singles, but let's hope it's moving that way. I think it might be. Can just wait and hope, at the moment, I'm kinda not convince that Zen know which way they are going either.

lol yes true, I guess all I can really do is give feedback and wait and hopefully someday Zenimax will give us some more options in the future.

I like doing all that stuff you mentioned as well but it can also get lonely sometimes always playing by yourself all the time, though you might not get this feeling, I have a lot of fun with just a friend playing together and chatting and laughing about silly stuff, I think it makes an MMO so much more funner.

But I do love my solo content. If everything was forced grouping I would not be here, I prefer solo content over grouped to be honest so I don't want anybody thinking I don't like solo content :P I love solo content, just not forced solo lol

dharbert · October 2014

The storyline content is solo because of exactly that reason.....it can be solo'd easily.

The group content is also that way for a reason. It can't be solo'd easily, or in some cases, at all.

I don't like forced group content any more than you like forced solo content.

Elvent · October 2014

dharbert wrote: »

The storyline content is solo because of exactly that reason.....it can be solo'd easily.

The group content is also that way for a reason. It can't be solo'd easily, or in some cases, at all.

I don't like forced group content any more than you like forced solo content.

It's not easy for everybody, the mage/fighters guild quests aren't easy for everybody. Some builds/classes find it easy.

Voodoo · October 2014

If you havent been following the main story arc it is about YOUR CHARACTER, Not you and all your friends. Since when is a MMO 100% about groups?
MMO = playing online with other people as well..not forced grouping.

If you cant do the solo content alone then skip it!

Safety in numbers for some ppl I guess?

bedlom · October 2014

Yeah I'm not fond on forced solo or group content, best to just always have the option of both imo.

Elvent · October 2014

Voodoo wrote: »

If you havent been following the main story arc it is about YOUR CHARACTER, Not you and all your friends. Since when is a MMO 100% about groups?
MMO = playing online with other people as well..not forced grouping.

If you cant do the solo content alone then skip it!

Safety in numbers for some ppl I guess?

I know the story is about my character which is why I referred to SWTOR story grouping design. If you haven't played SWTOR, it basically works like this. Whoever the leader of the group is, you follow their story. You don't get credit, you don't get anything. You're basically there as a shadow, a helper, like you're not even there.

MMOs have always had forced group content, I don't think I ever played an MMO that had no forced group content at all. I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Since when is a MMO 100% about groups?" It's not 100% about groups but there is group content and it's forced.

WoW has it
SWTOR has it
EQ1 EQ2 has it
LOTRO has it
Wildstar has it
GW1
GW2
I don't think I need to go on.

I don't know why you people are supporting forced solo content and saying it's ok but against group content in a massively multiplayer online game. This isn't a single player game.

dharbert · October 2014

Elvent wrote: »

WoW has it
SWTOR has it
EQ1 EQ2 has it
LOTRO has it
Wildstar has it
GW1
GW2
I don't think I need to go on.

This isn't WoW
This isn't SWTOR
This isn't EQ1or EQ2
This isn't LOTRO
This isn't Wildstar
This isn't GW1
This isn't GW2

I don't think I need to go on.....

Khami · October 2014

Elvent wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

The storyline content is solo because of exactly that reason.....it can be solo'd easily.

The group content is also that way for a reason. It can't be solo'd easily, or in some cases, at all.

I don't like forced group content any more than you like forced solo content.

It's not easy for everybody, the mage/fighters guild quests aren't easy for everybody. Some builds/classes find it easy.

One of the first things the devs did was nerf the very first fighter's guild boss, Doshia. I remember thinking to myself why? That fight is about mechanics and the player needs to learn them early in the game.

A story about one person, the player character, needs to be solo.

SW:TOR had their class missions set up to be solo'ed but you could bring friends if they weren't doing their own mission. What's faster? Doing 4 missions with all four people or all four people doing their own class mission?

Most of the classes missions in each area of the zone were near each other.

Elvent · October 2014

dharbert wrote: »

Elvent wrote: »

WoW has it
SWTOR has it
EQ1 EQ2 has it
LOTRO has it
Wildstar has it
GW1
GW2
I don't think I need to go on.

This isn't WoW
This isn't SWTOR
This isn't EQ1or EQ2
This isn't LOTRO
This isn't Wildstar
This isn't GW1
This isn't GW2

I don't think I need to go on.....

Do you even know what I was referring to? Forced solo content which ESO has and is just like those games I mentioned, so what are you trying to say?

Elvent · October 2014

Khami wrote: »

Elvent wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

The storyline content is solo because of exactly that reason.....it can be solo'd easily.

The group content is also that way for a reason. It can't be solo'd easily, or in some cases, at all.

I don't like forced group content any more than you like forced solo content.

It's not easy for everybody, the mage/fighters guild quests aren't easy for everybody. Some builds/classes find it easy.

One of the first things the devs did was nerf the very first fighter's guild boss, Doshia. I remember thinking to myself why? That fight is about mechanics and the player needs to learn them early in the game.

A story about one person, the player character, needs to be solo.

SW:TOR had their class missions set up to be solo'ed but you could bring friends if they weren't doing their own mission. What's faster? Doing 4 missions with all four people or all four people doing their own class mission?

Most of the classes missions in each area of the zone were near each other.

Still. They give you options. This is an MMO, we should have this option regardless. The whole point I'm making was having the option to help my friend do her solo quests, why is this a bad thing? Why are you people so against having this option? I wouldn't get credit for her quest but at least I could help her.

dharbert · October 2014

Elvent wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Elvent wrote: »

WoW has it
SWTOR has it
EQ1 EQ2 has it
LOTRO has it
Wildstar has it
GW1
GW2
I don't think I need to go on.

This isn't WoW
This isn't SWTOR
This isn't EQ1or EQ2
This isn't LOTRO
This isn't Wildstar
This isn't GW1
This isn't GW2

I don't think I need to go on.....

Do you even know what I was referring to? Forced solo content which ESO has and is just like those games I mentioned, so what are you trying to say?

The point I was trying to make is that it doesn't do any good to compare other games to this one. This one has its own solo and grouping system. Would you rather this game be a cookie cutter clone of every other MMO?

Elvent · October 2014

dharbert wrote: »

Elvent wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Elvent wrote: »

WoW has it
SWTOR has it
EQ1 EQ2 has it
LOTRO has it
Wildstar has it
GW1
GW2
I don't think I need to go on.

This isn't WoW
This isn't SWTOR
This isn't EQ1or EQ2
This isn't LOTRO
This isn't Wildstar
This isn't GW1
This isn't GW2

I don't think I need to go on.....

Do you even know what I was referring to? Forced solo content which ESO has and is just like those games I mentioned, so what are you trying to say?

The point I was trying to make is that it doesn't do any good to compare other games to this one. This one has its own solo and grouping system. Would you rather this game be a cookie cutter clone of every other MMO?

Nope, just saying that forced solo content exists in pretty much every MMO on the market which is why I named all those MMOs. That was my point.

dharbert · October 2014

By the way, I'm curious as to which class/build is incapable of solo'ing the storyline content?

Elvent · October 2014

dharbert wrote: »

By the way, I'm curious as to which class/build is incapable of solo'ing the storyline content?

My templar/Dawn's Wrath (edited for calling it mage) with a single healing spell has no problem at all, I rarely ever die.

My friend was a night blade, I have no idea what her build was but I guess that's over now, she quit a while ago.