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I don't get people who are against solo content! (Warning Wall Of Text!)

DragonLane555
DragonLane555
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@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_AlanG @ZOS_TristanK @ZOS_UlyssesW @ZOS_CarolusS @ZOS_AmeliaR @‌ZOS_GaryA

(Disclaimer! I am not a true solo player, as I enjoy a doing dungeons and raids and have been in a few top progression guilds in my time. With that said, I do prefer to solo normal quests. I don't want to waste my time or somebody else's trying to find a group, making the group wait when one of us has to go back to town, or generally just getting in each other's way. In other words, I like to be able to login and just have some fun. As anyone who has ever organized a raid knows how hard it can be to work around everyone's schedule and find a few hours that's good for everyone to get together. Trying to do that kind of scheduling with something that's going to take days, weeks, or even months like leveling does is insane, and that time will only increase as more group quests content is added.)

I want to start off by listing some of the most common reasons people give against more solo play. Note I will not be going into the one about how many people came from the elder scrolls single player games, as it's pretty self-explanatory and has been talked to death.

1.) It's an MMO: Okay sure it's an MMO, but what does that mean? This one is a weak argument because it means something different to everyone who uses the phrase. The only thing people can agree on is that it means lots of people can occupy the same game space. So at the end of the day, it's really a non-argument, and if we want to have a real discussion this one needs to be dropped by both sides.

2.) Why don't you just go play a single player game: This argument shows me how people can become lost in their own minds. There are many people who play these games solely for the social interaction, and I can only assume the people who make this argument are among that group. Sometimes in order to understand the other side we have to try to understand their motives and not our own. Single player games tend to end at some point, normally within a window of about 8 to 50 hours of gameplay. MMO's on the other hand, just keep going. So long as people keep paying their subscriptions, the company keeps pumping out new content. Seeing as how people will pay $15-$20 to get just a few extra hours of gameplay from the DLC on their single player games, it suddenly starts to make a lot of sense why solo players would be attracted to MMO's. Their adventures never have to end!
3.) If you don't like it just quit: This argument isn't good for anyone! The more people who quit the less money ZOS makes, the less money ZOS makes the slower content comes out, the slower content comes out more people leave, more people leave ZOS makes less money, ZOS makes less money….. I think you guys see where this is going. Now I'm not being all doom and gloom with this, I'm not saying the games going free to play tomorrow, what I am saying is that if people just start leaving, without new ones taking their place it will begin the slow burn process that I've seen in many MMO's. An MMO is a capitalist endeavor and it needs to make money to survive.

Now that we have seen some of the reasons people use against solo content why don't we take a look at some of the reasons why people want solo content.

1.) The adventure never ends: As I said before pretty much any solo game has an ending. Maybe the game has multiple paths so they can go back and replay it, but they are really just replaying the same game. In the MMO model however the developers are constantly pumping out new content. Your hero story is never over!

2.) Solo players pay the bills: I don't know how true this is. I haven't seen statistics on what percentage of the player base are Solo and what percentage are Raiders and what percentage are PVPer, so I can't really say that solo players are pumping the most amount of money and the game. With that said they do pay part of it, every player you see posting on the forms asking for solo content is putting money into the game so there's no reason that they shouldn't have a voice. As to how big of a voice will that's kind of up to ZOS. Maybe one day they'll release the statistics for us and we will be able to know for sure. Until then, however, this should be a non-argument because we just don't have the numbers, but solo players, or for that matter any player who is paying their subscription should have a voice.

3.) I just don't have the time: As I said before in my disclaimer it can be difficult and time-consuming to organize groups. Some of the people who play this game have full-time jobs and families so they just don't have the time to play for hours. What time they do have they want to be able to enjoy themselves and have something to do. I see absolutely no reason that there shouldn't be something for these people to do. A way of progressing, obviously at a much lower rate than those who played more often, but nonetheless they shouldn't have to spend all their time forming a group just have to log off. After all, they are paying for the game to.

So how do we solve all this, what’s the answer? Will fortunately we don't have to look too far, MMO's have been working towards a reasonable answer that seems to work for years now. Bit by bit game by game we've seen more solo type content come in, as well as ways to work it with the current model of raiding, and PVP.

1.) The first step is daily. Dailies, are great way for solo players to continue to progress. Whereas raiding and PVP give gear, dailies tend to give the most gold. Furthermore in a game like ESO having scaled dailies for people in VR would allow them an alternative to leveling by group content. I know dailies aren't the most interesting thing, but thankfully most solo players are really just looking for way to be able to progress, and it wouldn't bother them too much doing the same quest every day if it meant they could level solo.

2.) The second step is buying and selling end game gear: There are a few games that have started to do this on one level or another. For instance, in Star Wars the Old Republic Raiders have the ability to learn how to craft end game gear that they can then sell to anyone. This actually makes for a more realistic marketplace. The Raiders go into their raids and gear up their team, then once everyone has what they need they start selling the extra, the guys who do dailies and have all the gold by them so they can progress their gear. Right around the time the market starts to become saturated with end game gear a new raid comes out, and the process starts all over again. By doing this Raiders get to make money and solo players are able to progress their gear. It's a win-win.

Anyway I hope this helps people see why someone would want more solo play as well as hopefully being helpful and way to solve the issue. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

  • Resueht
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    Well said! The time thing is big for me. I would like to group more and I do when I have large chunks of time to play, but most nights its 30min to an hour. I want to do stuff quickly and not spend half of my play time looking for a group.
    If she doesn't know the pain of cliffracers, she's too young for you.
  • GreySix
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    I'm against forced-solo content in an MMO.
    Crotchety Old Man Guild

    "Hey you, get off my lawn!"
  • LonePirate
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    Let me give you an "Awesone" for this post, OP. Just don't get your hopes up for any sort of official response as the first four updates and the bulk of the fifth update indicate ZOS cares very little about the largest group of players who are helping to keep the lights on at the ZOS office.

    If it is any consolation, be grateful you are not a PVPer as ZOS seems to despise that group of players more than any other group judging by the near total abandonment of Cyrodiil and the refusal to address the mountain of issues there.
  • Inversus
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    GreySix wrote: »
    I'm against forced-solo content in an MMO.

    Wholeheartedly agree with this ^
    I'd like to see systems similar to the previous VR zones brought with new areas - solo questlines with group content mixed in. A few more dungeons (and the addition of trials ) compared to the previous zones, and some harder world bosses + harder or more varied dark anchors.
    VR14 EH Sorc
    VR1 AD NB Crafter
  • Akula
    Akula
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    Most people are against things in MMO's that they have no interest in. Why? Because developing it would take away from development time of stuff they are interested in.
  • LonePirate
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    Akula wrote: »
    Most people are against things in MMO's that they have no interest in. Why? Because developing it would take away from development time of stuff they are interested in.

    I am glad you said most because I belong to the not most crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the solo/duo players. I want ZOS to develop new content for the groups and raids crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the PVPers. The game needs all of those types of players in order to thrive and be successful. Unfortunately, ZOS only cares about the second set of players, not about the other two sets of players if you look at the content in Updates 1-5.
  • GreySix
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    I just want ZOS to offer players the choice on whether to solo or group.

    Don't force play in either direction.
    Crotchety Old Man Guild

    "Hey you, get off my lawn!"
  • Akula
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    LonePirate wrote: »
    Akula wrote: »
    Most people are against things in MMO's that they have no interest in. Why? Because developing it would take away from development time of stuff they are interested in.

    I am glad you said most because I belong to the not most crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the solo/duo players. I want ZOS to develop new content for the groups and raids crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the PVPers. The game needs all of those types of players in order to thrive and be successful. Unfortunately, ZOS only cares about the second set of players, not about the other two sets of players if you look at the content in Updates 1-5.

    I noticed you didnt mention RPers. I dont really gave a crap about their endless ridiculous demands either. No way I want a bunch of resources allocated to pacify such a small group of gamers. Go away RPers! ;)
  • MikeBob
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    Akula wrote: »
    Most people are against things in MMO's that they have no interest in. Why? Because developing it would take away from development time of stuff they are interested in.

    I find this (sadly) to be all too true. I also believe it's the reason that The Idea Wars™ rage unabated in every gaming community I've ever visited or been a member of.

    People (present company included) are inherently self-centric creatures, and those with the money to spend on their own entertainment tend to be particularly persnickety about getting their 'money's worth.'

    Trouble arises in light of the fact that we don't all want or expect the exact same thing(s) from our own individual/respective gaming experiences (whether we as individuals realize it or not) - to the extent that when I see you asking ZOS to implement a bell or a whistle that isn't a priority of mine, I speak out in opposition to it (and/or vice versa), and (invariably, it seems) sparks often begin to fly.

    (I think we all know the rest of the story.)

  • LonePirate
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    Akula wrote: »
    LonePirate wrote: »
    Akula wrote: »
    Most people are against things in MMO's that they have no interest in. Why? Because developing it would take away from development time of stuff they are interested in.

    I am glad you said most because I belong to the not most crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the solo/duo players. I want ZOS to develop new content for the groups and raids crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the PVPers. The game needs all of those types of players in order to thrive and be successful. Unfortunately, ZOS only cares about the second set of players, not about the other two sets of players if you look at the content in Updates 1-5.

    I noticed you didnt mention RPers. I dont really gave a crap about their endless ridiculous demands either. No way I want a bunch of resources allocated to pacify such a small group of gamers. Go away RPers! ;)

    RPers are tough to classify. Some of them are soloers and some/many of them are groupers. If they have specific requests for content in the game, I certainly welcome those requests and I hope ZOS supplies them with what they want.
  • Akula
    Akula
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    LonePirate wrote: »
    Akula wrote: »
    LonePirate wrote: »
    Akula wrote: »
    Most people are against things in MMO's that they have no interest in. Why? Because developing it would take away from development time of stuff they are interested in.

    I am glad you said most because I belong to the not most crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the solo/duo players. I want ZOS to develop new content for the groups and raids crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the PVPers. The game needs all of those types of players in order to thrive and be successful. Unfortunately, ZOS only cares about the second set of players, not about the other two sets of players if you look at the content in Updates 1-5.

    I noticed you didnt mention RPers. I dont really gave a crap about their endless ridiculous demands either. No way I want a bunch of resources allocated to pacify such a small group of gamers. Go away RPers! ;)

    RPers are tough to classify. Some of them are soloers and some/many of them are groupers. If they have specific requests for content in the game, I certainly welcome those requests and I hope ZOS supplies them with what they want.

    you are missing the point and simply dwindling it down to two categories. There is simply a finite amount of resources for development. Everyone cannot simply get what they want. Someone will be left out. Since you seem to believe everyone should get all the things, are you then willing to sacrafice the things you want so they can get theirs?
  • Tavore1138
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    I just wish they would release content for everyone... Do some solo stuff, then do a group release, then some PvP and so on round the cycle. That way everyone gets to play. So far it has been all about groups in the new content which sucks unless you have access to a ready made group...
  • LonePirate
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    Akula wrote: »
    LonePirate wrote: »
    Akula wrote: »
    LonePirate wrote: »
    Akula wrote: »
    Most people are against things in MMO's that they have no interest in. Why? Because developing it would take away from development time of stuff they are interested in.

    I am glad you said most because I belong to the not most crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the solo/duo players. I want ZOS to develop new content for the groups and raids crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the PVPers. The game needs all of those types of players in order to thrive and be successful. Unfortunately, ZOS only cares about the second set of players, not about the other two sets of players if you look at the content in Updates 1-5.

    I noticed you didnt mention RPers. I dont really gave a crap about their endless ridiculous demands either. No way I want a bunch of resources allocated to pacify such a small group of gamers. Go away RPers! ;)

    RPers are tough to classify. Some of them are soloers and some/many of them are groupers. If they have specific requests for content in the game, I certainly welcome those requests and I hope ZOS supplies them with what they want.

    you are missing the point and simply dwindling it down to two categories. There is simply a finite amount of resources for development. Everyone cannot simply get what they want. Someone will be left out. Since you seem to believe everyone should get all the things, are you then willing to sacrafice the things you want so they can get theirs?

    My point is that everyone except those who enjoy the group quest/dungeon/trials content has already sacrificed because that group is the only one ZOS cares enough about to develop new content for judging from everything that has been released since launch.
  • DarkAedin
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    i personally play this game as i do any mmo, for the online experience with other people be it in group dungeons or trials vs pve or vs other players in pvp. when i am looking for solo content, i do so in a single player game.

    i dont pay a monthly fee for single player games.

    this is just my flavor, im not saying that i am against single player content in any mmo, it just is not what i buy the game for.

    but i also dont want to see the monthly money i am putting into a multi-player game going to single player content.

    i appreciate that not everyone has a ton of playtime, what i dont understand, is why you are looking for a single player experience in an mmo. this is an mmo, by definition its for Massive Multiplayer Online gameplay, not for single player content.
  • IrishGirlGamer
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    b1d.png
    Valar Morghulis.

    Someday I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull. Arya Stark

    You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well. Sansa Stark

    If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Desmond Tutu
  • Nox_Aeterna
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    GreySix wrote: »
    I'm against forced-solo content in an MMO.

    Im againt forced group content , but apparently the devs wanted to *** both sides since we have BOTH things in the game.
    Edited by Nox_Aeterna on October 9, 2014 10:01PM
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
    -Hanlon's razor
  • Inversus
    Inversus
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    b1d.png

    We're only a few updates in, I wouldn't say asking for solo content is exactly a dead horse yet...
    VR14 EH Sorc
    VR1 AD NB Crafter
  • DragonLane555
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    Akula wrote: »
    LonePirate wrote: »
    Akula wrote: »
    LonePirate wrote: »
    Akula wrote: »
    Most people are against things in MMO's that they have no interest in. Why? Because developing it would take away from development time of stuff they are interested in.

    I am glad you said most because I belong to the not most crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the solo/duo players. I want ZOS to develop new content for the groups and raids crowd. I want ZOS to develop new content for the PVPers. The game needs all of those types of players in order to thrive and be successful. Unfortunately, ZOS only cares about the second set of players, not about the other two sets of players if you look at the content in Updates 1-5.

    I noticed you didnt mention RPers. I dont really gave a crap about their endless ridiculous demands either. No way I want a bunch of resources allocated to pacify such a small group of gamers. Go away RPers! ;)

    RPers are tough to classify. Some of them are soloers and some/many of them are groupers. If they have specific requests for content in the game, I certainly welcome those requests and I hope ZOS supplies them with what they want.

    you are missing the point and simply dwindling it down to two categories. There is simply a finite amount of resources for development. Everyone cannot simply get what they want. Someone will be left out. Since you seem to believe everyone should get all the things, are you then willing to sacrafice the things you want so they can get theirs?

    I wish I'd thought of this one before I posted my original post, because it's another one of the non-issues, that most people seem to think is an issue. This is one of the reasons that I said dailies as a way of solving the problem. ZOS could easily add two or three daily quests an update, having very little if any impact on their development of group/pvp content. Sure at first there wouldn't be much to do, but within a year there would be 24 to 36 daily quests. Even at the beginning I think most solo players would see this is win.

    As for RPers this may have been a bit of an oversight for me as I'm not one, but to be fair all RPers are at least one of the other types of players as well. So anything that helps one of the other play styles is also going to help some RPers. With that said, I know that they are updating RP stuff. In the next update they're adding chat bubbles, and I'm pretty sure that they expanded some of the emots in a previous update, don't quote me on that last one like I said I'm not an RPer. LoL.

    P.S. I'm another one of those who believes that all play styles should be accounted for in a game like this.
  • IrishGirlGamer
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    Inversus wrote: »
    b1d.png

    We're only a few updates in, I wouldn't say asking for solo content is exactly a dead horse yet...

    And you'd be joking, right? No? You're really going to make me do this? Here goes:

    Thread 1 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 2 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 3 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 4 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 5 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 6 Requesting Solo Content

    There's more than 100 threads on this forum requesting more solo content! To be fair, there seems to be an equal number of threads requesting more group content.

    Updates be damned, this debate really has been going on since the BETA ... so I'm just saying, I suspect ZOS is familiar with the issue.
    Edited by IrishGirlGamer on October 9, 2014 10:27PM
    Valar Morghulis.

    Someday I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull. Arya Stark

    You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well. Sansa Stark

    If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Desmond Tutu
  • Inversus
    Inversus
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    Inversus wrote: »
    b1d.png

    We're only a few updates in, I wouldn't say asking for solo content is exactly a dead horse yet...

    And you'd be joking, right? No? You're really going to make me do this? Here goes:

    Thread 1 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 2 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 3 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 4 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 5 Requesting Solo Content

    Thread 6 Requesting Solo Content

    There's more than 100 threads on this forum requesting more solo content! To be fair, there seems to be an equal number of threads requesting more group content.

    Updates be damned, this debate really has been going on since the BETA ... so I'm just saying, I suspect ZOS is familiar with the issue.

    The term 'beating a dead horse' suggests that there is no point discussing solo/group content since the future of solo/group content has already been decided which, as far as we know, it has not - since it's perfectly plausible that we will see solo content in the future, especially after craglorn feedback (even if you prefer group content, craglorn is pretty hard to, err, get to work I suppose.)
    VR14 EH Sorc
    VR1 AD NB Crafter
  • renton1x1x1
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    paragraph's!!!! and they're numbered as well -awesome
    Renton Sc Breton Sorcerer VR14
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  • Ysne58
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    I am against forcing solo content in the mages guild, fighters guild, and main quests. This game is supposed to be play how you want, and the player who cannot solo those is unable to do that. Those quests should never have been set up as solo.

    I have no problem with making the werewolf/vampire quests forced solo. Those don't block main game content. At the same time, it wouldn't bother me if they were also groupable.

    I think those who are against forcing groups for group content also have a point. It can be very difficult to get a group together. Some people just like the challenge of soloing these.
  • Ourorboros
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    get%20along2.jpg
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  • DragonLane555
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    paragraph's!!!! and they're numbered as well -awesome

    Thanks! Its just a shame that I left all the typos in. LoL.
  • RSram
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    I agree with the OP's opinion, but why do these discussions continue?

    I stated this before and I'll say one more time because no seems to get it:

    ESO is a MMORPG. The definition of MMORGP is "Massively multiplayer online role-playing game"

    There is nothing in the definition that states that this type of game must support solo, or group play or both; the game designers have already made this decision; ESO caters to both type of players.

    The more players there are the more money ESO brings in.
    The more money ESO brings in, the more content we all get.


    The math is simple.
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