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The Justice System Revealed

Rodario
Rodario
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Of course on a third party website, so I thought I'd share it on these here official forums:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/9007/page/1

The linked article:

“By order of the Jarl, stop right there!” Even though I have not logged nearly as many hours as a lot of people, that phrase is one I know all too well. Anytime I’ve tried to be a sneaky thief, there was always a guard right near me ready to confiscate my stolen good. From what I saw at the Guild Summit, this phrase (or variations of it) will be playing a lot through my speakers as I play The Elder Scrolls Online.

As with the Champion System, this new addition to ESO isn’t something small. This system is going to change how we as players interact with the world. Making it a more believable environment. More lootable items, more dialogue with the NPCs, players taking on a role of Guards, and so much more.

When I first heard about the justice system coming to ESO, I didn’t think much of it, I thought it’d be a simple addition to the game, but I didn’t take into account what they’d really need to do. Every guard in every city needs to be able to react to player actions; they need to be patrolling the cities vigorously; they need to be connected somehow to prevent players from stealing stuff in Daggerfall and quick traveling to Wayrest until their bounty has dissipated. Zenimax is going to be changing the way sneak works as well. If I’m an Enforcer, and an Outlaw goes into sneak, it only makes sense that I should not be able to see him, same for Shadow Cloak, and invisibility potions.

If the world of Tamriel doesn’t have enough to deal with, with Molag Bal and other daedric forces roaming the country side, murdering and pillaging, now they’ll have to deal with the masses, murdering and pillaging. Let me tell you, I can’t wait to murder and pillage the citizens of Tamriel!

ESOGS.jpg

Unlike the other Elder Scrolls games where you only had to deal with mindless NPCs when you broke the law, Elder Scrolls Online is an MMORPG, you’re going to have to deal with real live players. As a player you can take up the role of the Enforcer, or the Outlaw, with the option of switching sides anytime you wish.

The Enforcer

This is one of the two roles a player can take on. This role is the Paladin, the do-gooder. As an Enforcer it is your duty to patrol the cities of Tamriel looking out for Outlaws who are only out for themselves. Stealing from the wealthy, from the poor, there is no regard for either.

In order to become an Enforcer you have to go to the Enforcer Towers, typically located just outside the city walls. Once there you’ll need to obtain your Enforcer tabard. This tabard is what will flag you as an “on duty” Enforcer. Allowing you to see acts of crimes and to engage with the outlaws in a battle to the death. Yes, that’s right you can engage in PvP combat with other players of your faction, if they are seen committing a crime. I can see this smaller scale PvP being utilized to test out builds and abilities before going into Cyrodiil. Using the filthy, no good, scoundrels of Tamriel as your target dummies.

If you do witness a crime, as an Enforcer you must stop the Outlaw from getting to the Outlaw den. These dens are safe zones for Outlaws and if they get to one of them, they’ll be safe from Enforcers, and have the ability to sell off their stolen items.

You can wear your Enforcer tabard at all times, you do not need to take it off. Having it on at all times will allow you to see if anyone you pass has a bounty on them. If they do it is your job to take that outlaw out, and confiscate his items and return them to the Enforcer Tower for your rewards.

As an Enforcer you’ll have access to a small aspect of the game not Outlaws won’t, that’s the PvE side of the system. As you travel throughout Tamriel you’ll come across clues, these clues will give you hints to the location of hidden Bandit Caves.

ESO-Sep24-2_t.jpg

Inside these caves you’ll find chests that can have stolen items in them that you can return for rewards or random junk that might be worthless. However, this is a bandit cave, and they want to protect their stuff so some of the chests will be trapped. You can go into sneak to detect these traps, which if you successfully deactivate, you’ll have a chance of looting the item and using it against an Outlaw in a future encounter. Perhaps you looted a chest with a fire trap that went off when you opened it and you get hit with fire damage. As a result in the future you’ll be able to protect the citizens of Tamriel by placing these traps on the houses of the wealthy members of society, the high valued targets. It would definitely bring another aspect to the game.

While in these caves, you won’t be given a complete map like you are in all the other dungeon delves and caves in ESO. There are hidden secrets to be found in these caves that only those who fully explore will be able to find.

I really like everything they are doing with this system, except the tabard. I understand that they need a way to ensure that Enforcers stand out against the civilians of the world and have an “On/Off” switch for the PvP flag, but if I want to be an Enforcer, I can no longer represent my guild. On top of not being able to represent your guild, you also cannot wear a costume. What if I was a reanimated Skeleton that, in a previous life was a Lion Guard, and I want to uphold everything the Lion Guard stood for. With the Enforcer tabard taking the slot of the costumes, I can no longer role-play that aspect. Personally, I’m not a major role-player, but that sounds kind of fun.

There must be some other option that we as a community could suggest instead of them using the tabard/costume slot as the On/Off switch and the visual markers for the Enforcer.

The Outlaw

The scum and villainy of Tamriel and my future role within the world. It’s going to take more than just sneaking round and stealing items to become a well-known outlaw. Performing unlawful deeds in the other Elder Scrolls game didn’t require you to constantly be looking over your shoulder. ESO is an online game, with real players helping the NPCs with law enforcement--a player could come around the corner at any time. You’ll need to plan your thievery out if you want it to go off without a hitch.

As an outlaw you’ll be able to pickpocket, kill, and steal from NPCs. Now before you all start thinking of how much fun it’d be to kill King Emeric or any other special/iconic character in the game, it’s not possible. They’re making it so you won’t be able to interfere with any other player’s gaming experience by griefing their quest related NPCs. The same goes for the city guards: you won’t be able to kill the guards. A lot of people are not going to like this as they are used to the single player style of the justice system where your actions only affect yourself. The NPC guards will have their powers boosted so they are almost unkillable. I say almost because we all know the MMO community will find a way to do it. The primary design point of the justice system is to have the players be the ones engaging each other and less so the NPC guards.

As you approach NPCs while you are stealthed, and are an Outlaw, you’ll be able to pickpocket them. You’ll be given a prompt that says “Pickpocket [Insert NPC Name] (50)”, that number within the parenthesis is the percent of success. Where the mini game comes in is, if you sit and wait for the NPC to move, for a second or two that number will jump to 75. You’ll be able to loot items, gold, and possibly even their underwear (think Zoolander). I don’t know about you, but I definitely want to see the value of a NPC’s under garments. They made mention that some of the more valuable items could include an ivory style horn, with silver banding, and hand done etching. This horn may also be hollow and contain a secret cache of Skooma.

Each time you perform an unlawful act and are witnessed doing it, based on the severity of the crime you will either be accosted by a guard, and have a bounty placed on you, or you’ll have “heat” placed on you, or both. Heat, to use an easy reference, is like your stars in Grand Theft Auto. The more heat you have, the more the guards will want to catch you. Heat is an addition to your bounty; if you’re caught doing something, you’ll always have a bounty placed on you. Depending on the crime, or how many crimes you’ve done in an allotted time your heat will continue to grow. For example, if you steal an apple off a merchants cart, you may only get a bounty of 1 (scale of 1-20), but you’ll have a heat level of 5. So a guard may not pay much attention to you as your crime isn’t worth his time, and all the paper work required for such a small crime. However if you stole that apple, and then got witnessed trying to break into a house, your bounty would go up from a one to possibly a 10 or so, but the heat level which would have been at five, may have spiked up to 20. The instant you are witnessed you’re given a much higher heat level.

Justice1_t.jpg

If you run to an Outlaw Den, or just leave the city and stay away from all cities in Tamriel, your heat and bounty levels will dissipate. Eventually you’ll be able to go back into the cities and begin harassing the citizens that live there again.

If you do accrue a bounty you have two options: either run for your life and hope you get away, or get caught by a guard and pay them the bounty. Say you pay the bounty or die, you’ll have all your stolen items confiscated from you. However, if it was an Enforcer that killed you, you can resurrect and begin chasing down that person and hopefully kill them before they return to the Enforcer Tower. Should you kill them you’ll be able to loot your stolen items back off them.

This has to be one of the most exciting aspects of the justice system. Not only can you loot the underwear of unsuspecting citizens of a city, but you’ll also be able to loot high value rare items such as gear, making these items highly sought after by Outlaws, and Enforcers. Watching players fight back and forth over a single piece of gear would be amazing, and having additional Enforcers jumping in to help our their pals, or even more Outlaws jumping in for a complete free-for-all. No honour among thieves, after all.

ESO1.jpg

While at the guild summit, we asked the question, where they plan for this system to go from here? They said nothing, instead they just showed us an ominous image: a black hand on a piece of parchment with the words "We Know" scrawled out upon it. So obviously this system is going to play a large part in the Dark Brotherhood aspect of the game when it finally comes to fruition. Being sent on assassination missions. Wonder if the Enforcers will be aware of these missions and they’ll be trying to stop you from doing so. So many questions!

If you’d like to know more about the justice system check out the raw audio from the guild summit here (Ed. note: Youtube).
Edited by Rodario on October 9, 2014 8:18PM
Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}
  • Gulvar
    Gulvar
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    Sounds like it could be neat. I hope people don't participate in it if they can't emotionally handle it. I'm really not looking forward to hate tells from enforcers who tried to kill me but couldn't.
  • OrangeTheCat
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    It sounds very cool. As long as it isn't possible to grief. And I like how it might lead into the Dark Brotherhood. I am so there!

    As for the tabard, maybe they could instead hilight Enforcers with a golden glow or something like that, allowing us to continue to wear our guild tabards.
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Nice synopsis of the system.

    Looking very forward to it.
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • kimboh
    kimboh
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    So, with outlaws and enforcers having different skill lines and roles, how will the traditional 'thieves guild' and 'dark brotherhood' fit in to this, if at all?
    Are the outlaws just a different name for thieves guild or will this be a separate entity?
    If I choose to be an enforcer does this mean I will be excluded from any future TG or DB activities?
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  • OrangeTheCat
    OrangeTheCat
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    kimboh wrote: »
    So, with outlaws and enforcers having different skill lines and roles, how will the traditional 'thieves guild' and 'dark brotherhood' fit in to this, if at all?
    Are the outlaws just a different name for thieves guild or will this be a separate entity?
    If I choose to be an enforcer does this mean I will be excluded from any future TG or DB activities?

    To me it sounded like you could change roles whenever you like. I didn't read into it that Outlaws = Thieves Guild.

    But the article did imply that being an Outlaw and doing something nasty would get the notice of the Dark Brotherhood. At least, that's how I read it.
  • Shader_Shibes
    Shader_Shibes
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    Sounds great! However, i'm disappointed that i couldn't loot Queen Ayrenn's knickers :(
  • phreatophile
    phreatophile
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    I'm still looking forward to some indication of how vampiric hunger stages and feeding as well as werewolf transformation will fit into the Justice System.
  • CoolsHisHands
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    INB4 unkillable, griefing thieves cause enforcers to cry for nerfs.
    Vokundein
    Cools-His-Hands - Argonian Extraordinaire - Legend Gaming Webmaster
    www.legend-gaming.net
  • Akula
    Akula
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    Sounds like a lot of fun.
  • Rodario
    Rodario
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    I will definiteley be an enforcer. So, look out, criminal scum!

    I may be bribed with adequate quantities of sweetrolls. Consummate, none of the cheap stuff.
    Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
    {EU/DC}
  • Ourorboros
    Ourorboros
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    Guy's focus on stealing underwear is a little pervy, LOL :p
    PC/NA/DC
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  • Rodario
    Rodario
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    Sounds great! However, i'm disappointed that i couldn't loot Queen Ayrenn's knickers :(

    Yes, remove her knickers, then get down to Vulkhel Guard!
    Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
    {EU/DC}
  • jelliedsoup
    jelliedsoup
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    I plan on doing both, sounds cool.

    If we're going to steal under-garments, can they please be referred to as "Panties"?

    Primarily as this word implies a high level of deviance.
    Edited by jelliedsoup on October 9, 2014 9:33PM
    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO4
  • Voodoo
    Voodoo
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    Sounds awesome BUT my only real worry is that like the Vampire. The Outlaw (possibly tied to the Dark Brotherhood and or Thieves Guild) will be vastly more popular than being an Enforcer. Making this system very off balanced and in the end bland,

    They are going to have to balance the incentive to be an Enforcer, as I suspect the vast majority will become Outlaws doing work for TDB.
    Edited by Voodoo on October 9, 2014 10:09PM
  • OrangeTheCat
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    Voodoo wrote: »
    Sounds awesome BUT my only real worry is that like the Vampire. The Outlaw (tied to the Dark Brotherhood) will be vastly more popular than being an Enforcer. Making this system very off balanced and in the end bland,

    They are going to have to balance the incentive to be an Enforcer, as I suspect the vast majority will become Outlaws doing work for TDB.

    Good point. Maybe there can be decent AI Enforcers to augment the humans. And yeah, I am totally going Outlaw.
  • kijima
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    I see this as being really fun, but there is one thing that strikes me as being a little odd.

    For the lower level non-vet players, that have decided to lead a life of crime, what hope do they have against a battle hardened PvP VR14 veteran goodie two shoes?

    I can just see it now, a level 20 player running around Vulkhel Guard stealing frilly knickers from the houses of the wealthy only to be confronted by a VR14 DK with STOP in the name of the law! You can only guess how many seconds it'll take before you here BOOM! As you are crafted your gear in Vulkhel Guard, thinking, 'yup, there goes another one...'

    On the flip side, a sneaky and slippery VR14 NB is stealing golden candlestick holders from the aristocracy when confronted by an over zealous level 33 Enforcer, one soul harvest later there is another dead body on the ground.

    I love the concept, it'll give me more to do than just PvP which is great, but the surely there has to be some kind of level adjuster.
    Been here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...
  • jelliedsoup
    jelliedsoup
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    kijima wrote: »
    I see this as being really fun, but there is one thing that strikes me as being a little odd.

    For the lower level non-vet players, that have decided to lead a life of crime, what hope do they have against a battle hardened PvP VR14 veteran goodie two shoes?

    I can just see it now, a level 20 player running around Vulkhel Guard stealing frilly knickers from the houses of the wealthy only to be confronted by a VR14 DK with STOP in the name of the law! You can only guess how many seconds it'll take before you here BOOM! As you are crafted your gear in Vulkhel Guard, thinking, 'yup, there goes another one...'

    On the flip side, a sneaky and slippery VR14 NB is stealing golden candlestick holders from the aristocracy when confronted by an over zealous level 33 Enforcer, one soul harvest later there is another dead body on the ground.

    I love the concept, it'll give me more to do than just PvP which is great, but the surely there has to be some kind of level adjuster.

    Probably about as much hope as a level 20 does in Cyrodiil?
    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO4
  • Nox_Aeterna
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    I wish to see this actually working before i believe on half what they said there. Making promises far beyond their actual capacity to code features back into the game is something zen does often.

    I do have issues with apparently the fact that the DB will be a PvP thing , but i will wait see.
    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
    -Hanlon's razor
  • jelliedsoup
    jelliedsoup
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    I wish to see this actually working before i believe on half what they said there. Making promises far beyond their actual capacity to code features back into the game is something zen does often.

    I do have issues with apparently the fact that the DB will be a PvP thing , but i will wait see.

    I like that idea, but for those who don't want to be a victim that may be annoying.
    PvP, as in in Cyrodiil, or outside of Cyrodiil?
    www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO4
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    I wish to see this actually working before i believe on half what they said there. Making promises far beyond their actual capacity to code features back into the game is something zen does often.

    I do have issues with apparently the fact that the DB will be a PvP thing , but i will wait see.

    Likewise.

    I hope the justice system can be a way of enabling PvE role-playing in relation to the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, and not just a way of bringing PvP to the open world outside Cyrodil.
  • AssaultLemming
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    Are bounties just something you can pay to an npc to remove your heat, or do players who kill you get your bounty paid to them?

    I am assuming just the PvE answer? Because we all know how exploitable player collected bounties are...
  • WraithAzraiel
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    OUTLAW'S UNITE

    The Justice system is just going to make me chomp harder at the bit waiting for the Thieves' Guild and Dark Brotherhood.

    I want the motifs yesterday.
    Shendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade

    Captain of the Black Howling

    "There's no such thing as overkill..."

    "No problem on the face of the Earth exists what can't be fixed with the proper application of enough duct tape and 550 cord."

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  • david271749
    david271749
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    Too little too late.
  • AssaultLemming
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    Also, I wonder how switching between enforcer and outlaw will work? Can I carry both tabards, and so long as my heat and bounty are nil I can switch? Or can I only carry one tabard but switching is just a matter of talking to an npc? Or is it a permanent choice? is there a cooldown? Does switching cost gold? AP? Some new currency?

    Love to know!
  • Varicite
    Varicite
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    Sounds pretty good to me.

    Can't wait to see this get fleshed out. : D
  • Sylvyr
    Sylvyr
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    Dark brotherhood? Sounds more like Thieves Guild
    Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER

    PvP: Patch Vs. Player

    ZoSence (n.):
    1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
    2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"
  • kip_silverwolf
    kip_silverwolf
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    Sounds great! However, i'm disappointed that i couldn't loot Queen Ayrenn's knickers :(

    It's being unable to swipe Jakarn's and/or Darien's jocks that disappoint me! XD

    Joking aside though, the justice system sounds awesome & a lot of fun!

    "I'm going to live forever..or at least die trying"

    drunken Nord & Tamriel streaker since Arena

  • GnatB
    GnatB
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    Not sure how what I think about this. It sounds like the rewards for theft will be a lot higher than what I was envisioning, which could encourage the folks doing PvP to consider thieving as a way to enter into PvP.

    But I don't really see the impetus for enforcers. Let's face it. Being a security guard is boring. Though maybe if thieves are being encouraged enough so they're everywhere it won't be all that boring? Still seems like if you don't want to steal, Cyro will be the place to get your PvP kicks. You'll be able to actively seek it out instead of standing around in a bank waiting for something to happen. Which will inevitably lead thieves that really want to PvP and not just steal to all head back to Cyro as well, once the newness has died down.

    About the only thing I like about the design is that it seems like people rummaging around furniture and such for provisioning ingredients/recipes/etc. will be completely unaffected by it.
    Achievements Suck
  • MikeBob
    MikeBob
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    Rodario wrote: »

    (...)

    if you steal an apple off a merchants cart

    (...)

    Alrighty then!

    'Tis time for me to double down in my search efforts for provisioning ingredients, lest I be branded as an outlaw for doing so once the Justice System goes live!

    (Heh. This is gonna be fun.)

    B)
  • MikeBob
    MikeBob
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    GnatB wrote: »

    (...)

    About the only thing I like about the design is that it seems like people rummaging around furniture and such for provisioning ingredients/recipes/etc. will be completely unaffected by it.

    Oh I'll invariably be caught with my hand someplace where it doesn't belong (a cookie jar, perhaps?), I just know it:

    "But yer excellency, sir - I was just hopin' to find a dash o' pepper, I was! I swear it on me mother's eyes!"

    :p
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