"Play as you want" vs Forced Ignorance and Forced immersion.

Nox_Aeterna · October 2014

Zorrashi wrote: »

My only issue with the AI implementations bit; the mandatory feel of it all.

Already we have guilds that require members to download a certain add-on to be able to participate, and allowing those functions into the game will make it so you have no viable excuse for not using it.

Toggling them off will be the equivalent of intentionally gimping yourself, and because the features are so readily available, people can and will judge your preferences as among the most hazardous play styles and will likely discriminate.

Keeping them restricted to add-ons make even the most commonly used downloaded features actually feel like a choice in use and not an obligation.

Makes perfect sense , th UI is crappy , you pretty much deepend on ADDONs at this point.

Still like you said , it is no different than having the features in the game but optional , people will ask for the ADDON anyway , if anything it would just not give grounds for people to call the the UI crappy and near to useless on its on.

Izzban · October 2014

No, thank you, OP. I have all the information I need to play my character. ZOS, please do not adjust the API.

magnusnet wrote: »

Please, also acknowledge that you're not alone in this world and the hundreds of thousands of people who download addons to just make the UI bearable clearly disagree with you.

I downloaded an addon. I don't disagree. I wonder what that does to your statistics?

Vizier · October 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

I agree , some ADDONs are must have to me , i actually wouldnt even play this game anymore without them at this point.

While i agree that the reason ADDONs are there is to minimize how the devs have to work on stuff like this (not that the devs here even work much anyway so they have plenty of spare time) , basic features are still the devs responsibility , even more when they break said ADDONs each patch.

Not only do the addons break each patch but they break the game for thousands of people. Unexpected crashes, graphic and audio problems etc. Many have been traced back to addons even after they are updated for the new API. Support for the major features IMO is better all around use of time and resources rather than having devs engaged in a Turkey chase because 1000's of players report problems they don't know are related to addons they are using...shrug. It's a no brainer IMO.

Gillysan · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Wykkyd's Framework tools have over 1 000 000 downloads.
FTC has around 600 000 downloads.

Here is why these add on systems should not be made part of the game. I don't use them. I don't want them forced on me. It's great that others can use them if they want to.

I use a part of FTC, just to give me numbers on my exp bars (and I think there is another add on that might do that by itself). Everything else on that addon is disabled. Never wanted to use Wykkyds Framework. This is not a commentary on these addons, it is just personal preference. I have 3 map add ons and a crafting research add on. And, that's it. The last thing I want is a bunch of numbers and text all over the screen while I play. It makes for an ugly game. My UI is nicely uncluttered, thank you very much.

The game allows addons, just use the ones that give you the UI experience you want, and let the rest of us play with stock UI or the UI we want to play with. ZOS does not need to make the UI anything else than what it is, moddable.

Besides, as soon as you force a UI onto me, then I can no longer play the way that I want to.

You just repeated everything the OP said.

Tintaglia72 · October 2014

Personally I love addon's - some might call me an addon [snip]

Personally if Zos don't want to change the UI i'm happy with that as I use addon's to make my game how I want it.

I have used addon's for 8.5 years in wow - switching up my UI as I get bored. As a chick, I don't like shopping, addon's are my shoes

*joke don't stone me*

I can play as I want, I can have as many or as few addon's that I like. Zos always said they were supporting addon developers...

right now.. back to my box (it is a kitty box as I play a kitty)

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

rashkosh127ub17_ESO · October 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Love,
Everyone Else

Oh you are very much mistaken...

TehMagnus · October 2014

The guilds that currently require addons to accept you in their groups will not accept you if you don't download addon, if you "don't know" or "can't" it's not really an issue since there always are more people that are ready to install the addon and want to take the spot.

Fearing that people will "require" the UI elements to be activated will change nothing to that what so ever.

If you take into account the fact that:
- The addons are already available.
- Some guilds require them allready and the good ones that doubt your skills won't accept "no" for an answer.
- It wouldn't change anything if for people who don't use them since anything could be disabled.

The only logical explanation on why people can be so selfish as too deny the opportunity to other players to play how they want is because they know they suck and they fear other people will realize it if things like a DPS meter are implemented (actually, when people ask for DPS, it's because they suspect you suck, if there was no way to link DPS, those people would just be excluded right away). Thus, just because of one single thing, the whole UI should keep sucking and people's gaming experience hindered because of it.

Nox_Aeterna · October 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

The guilds that currently require addons to accept you in their groups will not accept you if you don't download addon, if you "don't know" or "can't" it's not really an issue since there always are more people that are ready to install the addon and want to take the spot.

Fearing that people will "require" the UI elements to be activated will change nothing to that what so ever.

If you take into account the fact that:
- The addons are already available.
- Some guilds require them allready and the good ones that doubt your skills won't accept "no" for an answer.
- It wouldn't change anything if for people who don't use them since anything could be disabled.

The only logical explanation on why people can be so selfish as too deny the opportunity to other players to play how they want is because they know they suck and they fear other people will realize it if things like a DPS meter are implemented (actually, when people ask for DPS, it's because they suspect you suck, if there was no way to link DPS, those people would just be excluded right away). Thus, just because of one single thing, the whole UI should keep sucking and people's gaming experience hindered because of it.

Pretty much.

The real issue is about having the option supported by zen.

Mind you , for now it is actually fine to a point , while the UI sucks there are ADDONs to cover for it , which we should be thankful for , BUT here is the problem.

People quit ESO often. That goes for many of the modders also.

Now some of them left and their ADDONs were things that the game should have to begin with are starting to have issues , for now some got other modder to come in and keep the work going , but the same issue is happening again and again.

The fact that with each big patch the devs manage to break most ADDONs even when they dont actually change anything even remotely linked to them also doesnt help at all.

Audigy · October 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Dear Zenimax,

Please Zenimax:

Fix your UI, make it so it's fully customizable by the players (move the basic elements around to place them as we want), give us the possibility to see numbers or percentages if we so choose to, let us enable or disable a minimap at will, let us save presets of our skill bars (I know you're working on armor presets which is awesome), allow the API to offer, once again, information about buffs/debuffs, nametags (at least for the same alliance), work with popular addon makers to support their addons and make their work easier since without them and the work they do to complete your game, many people would have left.

Immersion is fine most of the time but there are some times we also want to know what's going on with our character and by forcing us to be ignorant, you're not fulfilling your "Play as you want" promise which I'm sure you regret already.

Do you realize that your "play as you want" is just a silly fake argument for "play as I want"?

If you get the information about DPS, Achievements etc. by using spy tools like recount then you will dictate how everyone has to play.

Do we really always need to bring the WOW argument here so that you "Elite" players understand that your way of playing is not "play as you want".

When Blizz opened up their API the game died because of Elitism and it hasn't recovered from it since then. Once the Box is opened ESO will suffer under the same issues where innocent people are kicked based on numbers alone.

Audigy · October 2014

jrgray93 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

^ I've made a thread before, trying to explain what optional means (with default to off), and it always ends badly.

We already have an UI with all the Options anyone would want. Anyone can make the UI to be exactly what they want it to be. It just requires add ons to make it so.

As stated above, addons are an unreliable and sometimes untrustworthy solution. I could play for a year and suddenly an addon I rely heavily upon could be broken and unsupported. That could seriously impact my enjoyment of the game.

I just can't wrap my head around the rationale of people speaking out against this. It would effect you in absolutely zero ways. It wouldn't even detract from development progression in other areas of the game.

Nobody loses, and yet so many people are so adamant about shooting it down.

People lose that's the whole problem here.

I assume you never played WOW before Recount came so you don't know this but a wonderful MMO was pretty much ruined by a single tool that spied on players 24/7.

It forces players to use a pro elite spec, to use pro elite sockets, to use pro elite professions, to even use macros, rotations and all of that. It takes away any type of freedom from players because Elitsts will expect that you play as the tool wants you to play and if you refuse you are insulted and kicked from groups.

Addons are the worst things that ever happened to MMOs and if ZO wants to survive with ESO then keeping them away from spying others is very important.

People that play ESO do that for a reason and that reason is more than often the horrible experience from other MMOs with recount support.

Thudunblundur · October 2014

UI??? Meh, don't care much. It's not great but it actually works.

More serious an issue to me is I've now left Cyrodiil until it is made playable again: Ie LAG doesn't make using a skill a TOTAL LOTTERY and Crashes don't completely break any immersion, wreck any strategy you were attempting and introduce complete randomness into the taking of Keeps.

Went to try some normal questing and I found the lags and crashes are now starting to affect the PvE side of the game.

I have been assured by people who have been there that the Devs are an amazing crowd of committed and skilled professionals who LOVE, absolutely LOVE their jobs making this game.

So aside from wishing to kick the arse of whatever limited monkey of an accountant got the game released without adequate testing 6 months early to make a few more dollars a bit quicker at the cost of Zenimax' reputation for quality, I don't know whose fault this mess is.

But it is now enough of a mess that I don't want to log in and scream with frustration as my skills fire randomly if at all. I'd rather spend my time cursing at the incompetents who are wrecking this game.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

TehMagnus · October 2014

Audigy wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Dear Zenimax,

Please Zenimax:

Fix your UI, make it so it's fully customizable by the players (move the basic elements around to place them as we want), give us the possibility to see numbers or percentages if we so choose to, let us enable or disable a minimap at will, let us save presets of our skill bars (I know you're working on armor presets which is awesome), allow the API to offer, once again, information about buffs/debuffs, nametags (at least for the same alliance), work with popular addon makers to support their addons and make their work easier since without them and the work they do to complete your game, many people would have left.

Immersion is fine most of the time but there are some times we also want to know what's going on with our character and by forcing us to be ignorant, you're not fulfilling your "Play as you want" promise which I'm sure you regret already.

Do you realize that your "play as you want" is just a silly fake argument for "play as I want"?

If you get the information about DPS, Achievements etc. by using spy tools like recount then you will dictate how everyone has to play.

Do we really always need to bring the WOW argument here so that you "Elite" players understand that your way of playing is not "play as you want".

When Blizz opened up their API the game died because of Elitism and it hasn't recovered from it since then. Once the Box is opened ESO will suffer under the same issues where innocent people are kicked based on numbers alone.

Once again, WOW "noobs" post traumatic stress disorder strikes.

FYI, I've never played WOW and still, I want my UI not be totally useless. Shocking huh?

Moreover I don't see me nor anyone for that matter, asking specifically for spy tools nor do I think they should be implemented (Armor or DPS spy tools that is).

All I want is to be able to see information about MY CHARACTER, what affects it, how it affects it and how I affect my allies and world bosses. I want basic addons that a big part of the players are downloading (yes, a big part, 1 million downloads in a game that prolly doesn't even have that many active subs anymore IS a big part).

TehMagnus · October 2014

Audigy wrote: »

It forces players to use a pro elite spec, to use pro elite sockets, to use pro elite professions, to even use macros, rotations and all of that. It takes away any type of freedom from players because Elitsts will expect that you play as the tool wants you to play and if you refuse you are insulted and kicked from groups.

Once again, nobody has asked for a recount, then again, if people want to play that way and you don't, nobody is forcing you to team up with them. Many people QQ like you when we talk about addons, a LOT of people do. Nobody has ever mentioned recount or addons to spy on people yet people always bring that to the table.

I wonder why those people never grouped together? There are so many of them I suppose it wasn't hard to find each other and group with a bit of effort no? What's the problem if "Elitits" play together and "I play my way" people play together?

Ah I know, because you couldn't clear the Hard content maybe?

you expect people who took hours of work of grind of play to get their sets, their rotation just to bring you alone and carry you out of the kindness of their hearts?

This is like people using stamina builds in trials QQing because no group will take them. Go make a full stamina group and try to clear the content, see how that goes for you...

kewl · October 2014

Nestor wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Wykkyd's Framework tools have over 1 000 000 downloads.
FTC has around 600 000 downloads.

Here is why these add on systems should not be made part of the game. I don't use them. I don't want them forced on me. It's great that others can use them if they want to.

I use a part of FTC, just to give me numbers on my exp bars (and I think there is another add on that might do that by itself).

Besides, as soon as you force a UI onto me, then I can no longer play the way that I want to.

Allot of contradictions here and ultimately you support the the OP request, "Fix your UI, make it so it's fully customizable by the players (move the basic elements around to place them as we want), give us the possibility to see numbers or percentages if we so choose to."

Somehow eleven people tagging affirmative didn't catch it?

Audigy · October 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

It forces players to use a pro elite spec, to use pro elite sockets, to use pro elite professions, to even use macros, rotations and all of that. It takes away any type of freedom from players because Elitsts will expect that you play as the tool wants you to play and if you refuse you are insulted and kicked from groups.

Once again, nobody has asked for a recount, then again, if people want to play that way and you don't, nobody is forcing you to team up with them. Many people QQ like you when we talk about addons, a LOT of people do. Nobody has ever mentioned recount or addons to spy on people yet people always bring that to the table.

I wonder why those people never grouped together? There are so many of them I suppose it wasn't hard to find each other and group with a bit of effort no? What's the problem if "Elitits" play together and "I play my way" people play together?

Ah I know, because you couldn't clear the Hard content maybe? you expect people who took hours of work of grind of play to get their sets, their rotation just to bring you alone and carry you out of the kindness of their hearts?

This is like people using stamina builds in trials QQing because no group will take them. Go make a full stamina group and try to clear the content, see how that goes for you...

I cleared everything at WOW in a professional guild until WOTLK and afterwards I cleared every HC Encounter until I left wow with the Panda addon, so your insult towards my intelligence or skill wont work;)

That said,

I do know how horrible the WOW community became once the addons were allowed. Even if you did a simple pug run to Scarlet monastery in your 30s people were bragging about these numbers. Gearscore was a huge issue back in the days, it measured everything and based on the result players were put into boxes.
Once in the box of "noob" you didn't find a group to anything as the Elitsts ruled the chats and LFG tool.

It creates a hostile community with rude people that harass everyone who isn't leet enough to hit the big numbers and we don't need this at ESO.

Its bad enough that there are time trials and people who think that only a stick holder is able to clear content, we don't need to increase the hostility further by allowing said spy tools.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · October 2014

Audigy wrote: »

I cleared everything at WOW in a professional guild.

Who paid you to play WOW?

TehMagnus · October 2014

Audigy wrote: »

Its bad enough that there are time trials and people who think that only a stick holder is able to clear content, we don't need to increase the hostility further by allowing said spy tools.

Please quote one post where someone is asking for spy tools or stop talking about it and trying to derail the thread.

istateres · October 2014

Let's see if I understand this issue. Some players want more UI featuers then are currently provided. Today, they use Addons for this functionality. The 'request' is for Zenimax to ADD these features to the default UI, so that these features will ALWAYS be avaliable (not worries about 3rd party Dev support).

Some players like the UI the way it is and don't want in changed.

OK, my thoughts. I think we can assume that any addon additions to the UI could be turned off, so some players no longer have anything to worry about. Some other players need to ask themselves some tough questions, like:

A) Do we really think Zenimax Devs best use of time is on UI features we already "have"?

If we incentivised those 3rd party Devs more, would they stay around? Are you giving them more than a pat on the back?

Summary - send the 3rd party Devs (I'm not one) more love! Problem solved.

TehMagnus · October 2014

istateres wrote: »

Let's see if I understand this issue. Some players want more UI featuers then are currently provided. Today, they use Addons for this functionality. The 'request' is for Zenimax to ADD these features to the default UI, so that these features will ALWAYS be avaliable (not worries about 3rd party Dev support).

Some players like the UI the way it is and don't want in changed.

OK, my thoughts. I think we can assume that any addon additions to the UI could be turned off, so some players no longer have anything to worry about. Some other players need to ask themselves some tough questions, like:

A) Do we really think Zenimax Devs best use of time is on UI features we already "have"?
If we incentivised those 3rd party Devs more, would they stay around? Are you giving them more than a pat on the back?

Summary - send the 3rd party Devs (I'm not one) more love! Problem solved.

More love and release some of the API commands that were available in beta (and are still present but only blocked) such as buff/debuff information about your own character as well as the buffs you give to allies and nametags for own alliance.

That would really improve the situation but we would still have the same issues, addons breaking the game and devs just quitting and the risk of nobody following on their footsteps and updating the addons.

Xeres14 · October 2014

Well see, there's a lot of things that should have been included from day 1. I even ranted on a ticket that a minimap should have been included on the UI. But its not and I think I'd rather see ZO work on other things than UI elements. Let the addon authors handle that now.

jrgray93 · October 2014

As far as I knew, the recount-like addons for ESO can't pull info on DPS of other players, which is 100% perfect. It allows players to gauge their own performance but not judge others. Please don't put words in my mouth. I do not want such a thing in the game.

Zorrashi · October 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

The guilds that currently require addons to accept you in their groups will not accept you if you don't download addon, if you "don't know" or "can't" it's not really an issue since there always are more people that are ready to install the addon and want to take the spot.

Fearing that people will "require" the UI elements to be activated will change nothing to that what so ever.

If you take into account the fact that:
- The addons are already available.
- Some guilds require them allready and the good ones that doubt your skills won't accept "no" for an answer.
- It wouldn't change anything if for people who don't use them since anything could be disabled.

The only logical explanation on why people can be so selfish as too deny the opportunity to other players to play how they want is because they know they suck and they fear other people will realize it if things like a DPS meter are implemented (actually, when people ask for DPS, it's because they suspect you suck, if there was no way to link DPS, those people would just be excluded right away). Thus, just because of one single thing, the whole UI should keep sucking and people's gaming experience hindered because of it.

I disagree with many points here, though many are already up for debate. To be clear, it is not so much the UI I have a problem with so much as it is the community.

Fearing that people will require the UI implementations to be toggled on is, in my humble opinion, a very real fear. Unlike the current set up where you can at leas t say something along the lines of "I don't trust add-ons", "I legitimately can't download stuff from X" and even the ol' "it isn't in the game so I don't think they had it in mind" excuse. Having it implemented into the game where only some sort of bug will hinder it, will leave players essentially feeling that there is no way to escape the mandatory toggle even if it deliberately hinders or otherwise dulls the genuine enjoyment of the game for them.

It is the impression(s) of players rather than the mechanics that are subject to mistreatment. You who want that exemplary UI have the means to implement them into your game, while others who want the minimalist UI have the leisure to not worry (much) over in-game pressure to play a certain way (with DPS meters, mini-map etc.). They suffer a bit from it already, but it still remains that many can still give excuses/reasons that they feel are legitimate.

Conversely, those who want some basic UI functions added and supported by the game currently feel like their own play style is hindered by "forced ignorance" with the current state of the game. As much as I sympathies for a good chunk of them, I am against the UI implementation idea purely because of the social stigma it may incite that can very easily make even the minimalistic UI favor-ists to say "play how you want is really play with the maximum amount of UI possible".

It is easy enough to remedy the ails of those who desire more UI. But for those who feel pressured into that playstyle? Not so much. They can't control the community.

Downloading an Add-On? Easy. Downloading an instant community changer? Impossible.

Gillysan · October 2014

Since I started a few of my own simple little threads all I have to say is - wow, the reading comprehension of a lot of people (fair enough, occasionally my bad wording). There is nothing game changing being asked for here. What is fundamentally being asked for are things that will enhance the performance and stability of the game.

This fear mongering about elite guilds, of which I am not in any or have I been in the last 10 years of gaming, is ridiculous. You can avoid elite guilds and elite players easy enough. If anything, just use the ignore feature.

JD2013 · October 2014

I just don't get why some people are so keen to turn ESO into a clone of every other MMO out there with numbers flying everywhere, cluttering up the gorgeous world.

If Zenimax want to add optional things into the game, that's fine. I'll toggle them straight off.

Vive la différence!

R1ckyDaMan · October 2014

One thing I agree on is that the native UI should of been as customizable as marrowinds.

TehMagnus · October 2014

Zorrashi wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

The guilds that currently require addons to accept you in their groups will not accept you if you don't download addon, if you "don't know" or "can't" it's not really an issue since there always are more people that are ready to install the addon and want to take the spot.

Fearing that people will "require" the UI elements to be activated will change nothing to that what so ever.

If you take into account the fact that:
- The addons are already available.
- Some guilds require them allready and the good ones that doubt your skills won't accept "no" for an answer.
- It wouldn't change anything if for people who don't use them since anything could be disabled.

The only logical explanation on why people can be so selfish as too deny the opportunity to other players to play how they want is because they know they suck and they fear other people will realize it if things like a DPS meter are implemented (actually, when people ask for DPS, it's because they suspect you suck, if there was no way to link DPS, those people would just be excluded right away). Thus, just because of one single thing, the whole UI should keep sucking and people's gaming experience hindered because of it.

I disagree with many points here, though many are already up for debate. To be clear, it is not so much the UI I have a problem with so much as it is the community.

Fearing that people will require the UI implementations to be toggled on is, in my humble opinion, a very real fear. Unlike the current set up where you can at leas t say something along the lines of "I don't trust add-ons", "I legitimately can't download stuff from X" and even the ol' "it isn't in the game so I don't think they had it in mind" excuse. Having it implemented into the game where only some sort of bug will hinder it, will leave players essentially feeling that there is no way to escape the mandatory toggle even if it deliberately hinders or otherwise dulls the genuine enjoyment of the game for them.

It is the impression(s) of players rather than the mechanics that are subject to mistreatment. You who want that exemplary UI have the means to implement them into your game, while others who want the minimalist UI have the leisure to not worry (much) over in-game pressure to play a certain way (with DPS meters, mini-map etc.). They suffer a bit from it already, but it still remains that many can still give excuses/reasons that they feel are legitimate.

Conversely, those who want some basic UI functions added and supported by the game currently feel like their own play style is hindered by "forced ignorance" with the current state of the game. As much as I sympathies for a good chunk of them, I am against the UI implementation idea purely because of the social stigma it may incite that can very easily make even the minimalistic UI favor-ists to say "play how you want is really play with the maximum amount of UI possible".

It is easy enough to remedy the ails of those who desire more UI. But for those who feel pressured into that playstyle? Not so much. They can't control the community.

Downloading an Add-On? Easy. Downloading an instant community changer? Impossible.

Once again please stop derailing this post. DPS meter is one of the many additions this game's UI needs and denying any addition just because of unfounded fear of DPS meters is [snip]pid.

Regarding required addons, excuses about being unable to dl them don't and will never stand. Addons are 100% safe, and if a player doesn't want to install the addon after we suspect his dps sucks then it's ok we will never invite him again in a raid unless he's the last person available and we know he can at the very least stay alive (and we have enough good players so that happens very rarely)

. Keep in mind we know eachother, we know our DPS's. If he cant proove he pulls good DPS we have other people eager to take his spot who ain't afraid of linking a bad DPS and who we can try to teach how to get better, cuz yeah, we're not those meanies that expect everybody to just perform. The majority of us are up for pointing out reading material to new players and explaining basic mechanics, but we're not gonna do everything for them. You can't improve your damage output if you don't have a DPS meter since you don't have any idea if what you're doing actually works and we won't waste time on those people.

The only thing that could change by having a DPS meter integrated in the UI is that those players could realize faster if they are doing things right or wrong and ask for help which most of us are always willing to give.

If you don't care about DPS, then you shouldn't be trying to get into hardcore guilds since you will never be accepted and we usually have enough people in our friends lists to avoid raiding with pugs.

Now once again stop derailing the thread and stop thinking that just because DPS meters come with an addon we're naive enough to believe people's excuses for not downloading them.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO · October 2014

"Play as you want" But only if you play a DK, els you cant solo jack ***, and only if you stay away from Cranglorn, becuse its gruop based, and you are more or less not wellcome in this grps if you dont have the right spec, and the right eqpment. Beside that there are lots of other areas at vet lvl you can get around in if you are not in a grp or play as a DK.
So its not "Play as you want" but "play as you are forced to"

eventide03b14a_ESO · October 2014

The UI is by far the worst thing in this game. I'm now getting messages that I need to reload my UI because I might run out of memory, yet I don't know how to delegate more memory to it. There is no way this game is using 12 GB of system RAM and 2GB of VRAM. I sincerely believe that their reliance on third party addons is the source of many issues. It's not immersive, it's lazy.

jrgray93 · October 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

The UI is by far the worst thing in this game. I'm now getting messages that I need to reload my UI because I might run out of memory, yet I don't know how to delegate more memory to it. There is no way this game is using 12 GB of system RAM and 2GB of VRAM. I sincerely believe that their reliance on third party addons is the source of many issues. It's not immersive, it's lazy.

The client will crash if it reaches a little over 3GB of RAM usage, as it is 32-bit. And yes, addons can introduce many problems.

As much of a dead horse as this topic may be, that's no reason not to discuss it.

TehMagnus · October 2014

JD2013 wrote: »

I just don't get why some people are so keen to turn ESO into a clone of every other MMO out there with numbers flying everywhere, cluttering up the gorgeous world.

It's not about cloning it's about multiplayer games:
Games = Math.
Get good/competitive at game = learn the math.
Have access to the math = Know what you're actions are doing, the effect they have.

It's not cloning every other MMO out there, it's just cloning every competitive game out there. Even when I used to play browser games like Ogame or starkingdoms I had spreadsheets/atttack calculators to help me plan my attacks.

By just looking at the networth differences of a kingdom and comparing them to land gain I could know if the guy had lost a big chunk of his army while attacking and was a nice target. By analyzing the networth variations over 4 -6 hours I could know if the player had a lot of unspent money in his banks and I could rob him for lotsa money.

It's all about math. You might enjoy playing the game for it's "gorgeous world" (I don't even find the graphics in this game to be that awesome), I enjoy knowing what's going on and going through data in order to improve my character and my playstile, I enjoy knowing I'm doing stuff right or wrong to once again improve.

This has nothing to do with "every other MMO out ther with flying numbers cuz it looks cool" it's about what we want from the game.

And once again, if you bother to even read my original post, I don't ask for flying numbers, I ask for total freedom in managing the UI to show MORE or LESS stuff about my character and what he is doing.

If ZOS didn't want this kind of players in the game, they shouldn't have created end game raiding content and most of us would have quit a looong time ago.