Now approaching four months since ZOS said they were looking into Templar mana management

david.haypreub18_ESO · October 2014

On June 20th, the developers said they had heard 'loud and clear' the response of the vast majority of the Templar community that mana management is the main issue still facing the class. This was in the thread the developers themselves started when they acknowledged the Templar problems and were asking for feedback on how to fix them. Since then, the Templars have received some boosts, and are certainly good as healers. They are competitive in PvP and I would say strong in solo PvE, but clearly fall behind all other classes in DPS due primarily to the mana management issue.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread by debating how viable the Templars are in specific areas. This thread is just asking for clarification: Has ZOS now looked into the Templar's mana management issues? Is anything going to be done about it?

It has been nearly four months, so I think it is fair to ask if ZOS is going to do what they said they would do. Four months is more than time enough to provide an answer.

jrgray93 · October 2014

*puts on aluminum foil hat*

They're waiting for all of us templars to quit so that they can just delete the class and not have to balance it.

*takes off aluminum foil hat*

I sure wish I could do competitive DPS!

bellanca6561n · October 2014

I made my Templar - my original day -4 character - my crafter and tried the other classes. Settled on a Nightblade and Dragonknight. Aethelwulf, my Templar, makes great everything except food.

Seriously, when a class isn't working for me I have found that asking the game developers to fix it is seldom the best solution. And others play the class with satisfaction and enjoyment.

eliisra · October 2014

It's not only about magicka management really.

Everyone, as in all classes, will use the same tools for magicka sustained when dps'ing. That is Spell Symmetry and SP + crit potions. So class skills are fairly irrelevant, or the fact that we lack one.

We are a few hundred behind in dps because we dont have the skills for it. Some is basic numbers, but a lot is about smooth rotations. We have a lot of messy skills that responds badly to animation clip/light weave possibilities. We also lack an execute skill. Cant buff weapon power. Than there's the Destruction Staff, where we (unlike DK and sorc) lack synergy.

I dont know about ZoS intention or vision here really. Maybe templars are suppose to be the best heal- and support class, with lesser dps? Than again, DK is the top choice for tanking, with the highest survivability, they still have competitive dps

Dagoth_Rac · October 2014

They roughly doubled the magicka recovery softcap. That was not explicitly a Templar fix, but it helped. Back in the bad old days, with a softcap of like 79, you simply had to have class-based regen. But with the much higher softcap, you can get by with just the basic magicka recovery without class-based regen assistance. Templars are still in a rough spot, because we have to wear light armor and have to devote a lot of set bonuses and enchantments to regen. Those are spots other classes can devote to pure damage dealing.

But things have gotten better compared to 4 months ago. Basic magicka recovery can be pushed higher. There are expanded set bonuses with places to get that regen. But we are still at a disadvantage compared to other classes that do not have to devote so much gear to resource management.

Vatter · October 2014

ZoS employee #1 - "Hey Carl whats a templar?"

wolfydog · October 2014

Why does Templar need mana management? Maybe its an intended weakness.

Komma · October 2014

Templars are the second most powerful class in the game behind the dk.

timidobserver · October 2014

wolfydog wrote: »

Why does Templar need mana management? Maybe its an intended weakness.

I think the issue is more of silence on something that they acknowledged and said they were looking into. If Templar having poor magicka management is on purpose, I would expect to hear that.

Sav72 · October 2014

Wooooo...Templars complaining? ROFL

Thank you for the laugh

bosmern_ESO · October 2014

Maybe you should stop spamming sun shield because you don't regain magicka while its up?

Dagoth_Rac · October 2014

Komma wrote: »

Templars are the second most powerful class in the game behind the dk.

This is about endgame PvE. Templars are OK in PvP but decidedly *not* OK in endgame PvE.

jeevin · October 2014

Well it's been nearly 7 months since ZOS said the game was ready for release and we're still waiting for them to come good on that promise

david.haypreub18_ESO · October 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

I think the issue is more of silence on something that they acknowledged and said they were looking into. If Templar having poor magicka management is on purpose, I would expect to hear that.

Me too, and that's the issue for me. It has been almost four months since they said they heard the message 'clear and loud'. I'd just like a response one way or the other: when they looked into the issue, as they said they would, did they find it was a problem or are they not planning to address it?

We shouldn't have to wait four months for a simple response, yes or no.

starkerealm · October 2014

Komma wrote: »

Templars are the second most powerful class in the game behind the dk.

That's the weirdest spelling of "sorcerer" I've ever seen...

Skwor · October 2014

Komma wrote: »

Templars are the second most powerful class in the game behind the dk.

No they are not. Templars are ok pvp for survival, still are lowest dps and slowest/clunkier class to play as well as most majicka limited. The majicka issue has existed since beta and ZOS has been saying since beta they will correct it. It is way past time they live up to their word and fix the magica regen issue.

Ragefist · October 2014

Apologies if I am going off topic, I noticed that OP is going still with mana, unlike some of the sophisticated responsders who know Elder Scrolls and the term magicka

Which immediately translates in my mind into ... damn wowkids

Anyway. Its rather pointless to whinge about it right now. Champion system will bring an overhaul of games mechanics. Just wait for it, I am sure there will be chance for tears and forum rage before its balanced

ferzalrwb17_ESO · October 2014

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Maybe you should stop spamming sun shield because you don't regain magicka while its up?

This is incorrect.

However, I don't have any real problems with my Templar but I'm not concerned with going into Trials to fist a couple of buttons and rush through in 9 minutes. The DPS dependent endgame stuff is pretty dumb IMO. Go in undermanned, or wear no pants like my little group does, and you've got a challenge. Nice bit of fun.

If you want to fist impulse or <insert skill to spam here> for those DPS runs, and I can understand why people do them and try to beat the times etc, that is the only time you're at a disadvantage really. Although you can still get a spot with most groups - just not the super competitive sub-10min ones generally.

Otherwise Templar is currently awesome.

Inversus · October 2014

This isn't the only class issue they're not fixing
they really need to get onto this sorta stuff

Sotha_Sil · October 2014

Templar mana management works FINE in PvE and PVP (raid or roaming groups) for pure healer builds.

However, for "DPS" mana builds, I can't say much. But you guys have equilibrium and all so it should not be a problem. And DPS sucks as templar anyway not because of mana but unefficient skills.

Imo, this thread is pointless.

Natjur · October 2014

Templars in my view make good tanks, good healers, bad dps and having more issues then most with magic recovery. (but you can get by)

Aedric Spears is our tanking line
Restoring light is our healing line
Dawn's Wrath was meant to be our dps line, but well, it fails.

Backlash (and its morphs) used to be instance cast, but they got changed to 1.5 second early in beta. Change this back to instance cast.

Eclipse (and its morphs) are not CC, so change it so you can not break out of it but have to use a purge instead to remove

Illuminate passive is broken.
It says
+X spell resistance if attacker is affected by one of your Dawn's Wrath abilities.

But it really works like
+X spell resistance if YOU are affected by one of your Dawn's Wrath abilities. (Blinding Light buff or Power of the Light buff)

They need to fix the passive or change the description

That should help templar dps as that fixes two of our inefficient dps skills.

TehMagnus · October 2014

4 months? And you still haven't learned how to manage your mana?

Soulshine · October 2014

Actually, I find the single target dmg of any class in this game very underwhelming compared to having been top dps in other games I have played, so I guess I just don 't think about it too much as a detriment to my Templar, so much as a reflection of the overall lack of good dps design in this game. For me ALL dps in this game is way to low and slow, lol.

I do have a Sorc that I can clearly see runs some things faster than my Templar, but I know I have lately been blowing through plenty of Craglorn alone since capping, mostly by equipping Blazing Spear, Vampire's Bane, Crushing Shock/Destructive Clench, Impulse, Inner Light, and Empowering Sweep. Sometimes I will use a 2H and swap in Puncturing Sweep, Carve, Flawless Dawnbreaker. NOt a big fan of Sun Shield, even aftrer the change to magicka regen. Granted this is all just PvE and AoE dmg, not trials dps, but still fun. Stuff dies so fast I rarely notice a drop in resources even on boss fights.

Considering my main build since beta has been healing, to be able to do that well on dps on my second bar is pretty cool. I know I can outlast many other classes in same situations, so I think Templars are awesome. I think if we DID have competitve dps compared to other classes, the "OP! OP!" QQ would likely be deafening, hehe

As for magicka problems I agree with others that we should have some input from ZoS about this by now. I have long since grown wise to how to deal with it to meet my needs and keep my parties alive when healing, but still... it is definitely the time I start getting jealous of my Sorcs many benefits for this compared to my lack of them on my Templar. Some middle ground would be nice.

jrgray93 · October 2014

On a more serious note, I discussed magicka management in my Templar thread that may as well be a thesis... Link in my sig.

Bloodfang · October 2014

Templars are the weakest dps class by far ever since the beta..Therefore we are also the least played class in the game too..

The fact that templars are pretty good in PvP also comes with the fact that playing as a templar is actually really hard compared to DKs, so you won't find as many bad templars in PvP as you will find on DK side..

I've played Beta and all the way through early access for the first 2 months, then I took a break due to personal life issues about 3 months, and now I'm back.

Currently VR6 but I can very well remember the horrors of difficulty when players couldn't kill a single monster..well that wasn't the case with me..It was difficult for my tanky Templar Shield & Board to kill 3 at once, but with the use of CC spells it was doable..

Now that veteran content is nerfed it's pretty much a faceroll which I hate..Though that's still just 300-400 dps on single targets, and well 500 dps on multi targets..

So let me ask an honest question. How many people with other classes would be happy with such a ridiculously low DPS?

Soulshine · October 2014

Despair9 wrote: »

Templars are the weakest dps class by far ever since the beta..Therefore we are also the least played class in the game too..

The fact that templars are pretty good in PvP also comes with the fact that playing as a templar is actually really hard compared to DKs, so you won't find as many bad templars in PvP as you will find on DK side..

I've played Beta and all the way through early access for the first 2 months, then I took a break due to personal life issues about 3 months, and now I'm back.

Currently VR6 but I can very well remember the horrors of difficulty when players couldn't kill a single monster..well that wasn't the case with me..It was difficult for my tanky Templar Shield & Board to kill 3 at once, but with the use of CC spells it was doable..

Now that veteran content is nerfed it's pretty much a faceroll which I hate..Though that's still just 300-400 dps on single targets, and well 500 dps on multi targets..

So let me ask an honest question. How many people with other classes would be happy with such a ridiculously low DPS?

I honestly don't think it is THAT low; for me I was able to AoE down 4-5 mobs at a time pre-vet nerf a few months ago without breaking a sweat, and yes now it is very easy to do. I honestly think it really does depend on the build people have, since some do render higher numbers than others. But yes it is true we are behind the other classes. Not sure I want to trade off everthing else we have for higher dps. I mean if I want THE highest dps, wouldn't I just roll another class? What would you do?

kazeweaver · October 2014

Are you kidding? Templars can do huge dps. Blazing shield = massive dps

Bloodfang · October 2014

Soulshine wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

Templars are the weakest dps class by far ever since the beta..Therefore we are also the least played class in the game too..

The fact that templars are pretty good in PvP also comes with the fact that playing as a templar is actually really hard compared to DKs, so you won't find as many bad templars in PvP as you will find on DK side..

I've played Beta and all the way through early access for the first 2 months, then I took a break due to personal life issues about 3 months, and now I'm back.

Currently VR6 but I can very well remember the horrors of difficulty when players couldn't kill a single monster..well that wasn't the case with me..It was difficult for my tanky Templar Shield & Board to kill 3 at once, but with the use of CC spells it was doable..

Now that veteran content is nerfed it's pretty much a faceroll which I hate..Though that's still just 300-400 dps on single targets, and well 500 dps on multi targets..

So let me ask an honest question. How many people with other classes would be happy with such a ridiculously low DPS?

I honestly don't think it is THAT low; for me I was able to AoE down 4-5 mobs at a time pre-vet nerf a few months ago without breaking a sweat, and yes now it is very easy to do. I honestly think it really does depend on the build people have, since some do render higher numbers than others. But yes it is true we are behind the other classes. Not sure I want to trade off everthing else we have for higher dps. I mean if I want THE highest dps, wouldn't I just roll another class? What would you do?

Well actually it is that low for me xD I know I'm just 1 example, but I'm still soloing most World Bosses and Dark Anchors with this pityful ammount of dps. so I doubt my dps is on the lower end of our playerbase..

I never said I wanted the top dps, but I feel like we're missing at least half of it to be competitive with others..The only way for us to win in a fight is to either outsmart or outlast our opponent, while other classes just storm right through them, that just doesnt feel right..

Natjur · October 2014

kazeweaver wrote: »

Are you kidding? Templars can do huge dps. Blazing shield = massive dps

They fixed that in the last patch, you can no longer stack shields.

Soulshine · October 2014

Despair9 wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

Templars are the weakest dps class by far ever since the beta..Therefore we are also the least played class in the game too..

The fact that templars are pretty good in PvP also comes with the fact that playing as a templar is actually really hard compared to DKs, so you won't find as many bad templars in PvP as you will find on DK side..

I've played Beta and all the way through early access for the first 2 months, then I took a break due to personal life issues about 3 months, and now I'm back.

Currently VR6 but I can very well remember the horrors of difficulty when players couldn't kill a single monster..well that wasn't the case with me..It was difficult for my tanky Templar Shield & Board to kill 3 at once, but with the use of CC spells it was doable..

Now that veteran content is nerfed it's pretty much a faceroll which I hate..Though that's still just 300-400 dps on single targets, and well 500 dps on multi targets..

So let me ask an honest question. How many people with other classes would be happy with such a ridiculously low DPS?

I honestly don't think it is THAT low; for me I was able to AoE down 4-5 mobs at a time pre-vet nerf a few months ago without breaking a sweat, and yes now it is very easy to do. I honestly think it really does depend on the build people have, since some do render higher numbers than others. But yes it is true we are behind the other classes. Not sure I want to trade off everthing else we have for higher dps. I mean if I want THE highest dps, wouldn't I just roll another class? What would you do?

Well actually it is that low for me xD I know I'm just 1 example, but I'm still soloing most World Bosses and Dark Anchors with this pityful ammount of dps. so I doubt my dps is on the lower end of our playerbase..

I never said I wanted the top dps, but I feel like we're missing at least half of it to be competitive with others..The only way for us to win in a fight is to either outsmart or outlast our opponent, while other classes just storm right through them, that just doesnt feel right..

Hehe. Actually I always prefer brains over braun myself

Curragraigue · October 2014

Vatter wrote: »

ZoS employee #1 - "Hey Carl whats a templar?"

ZOS employee #2 - "Isn't that one of the mobs in Cyrodiil that my DK totally dominated last night?"

Couldn't resist. They have been doing some good work buffing the class but having something to help with magicka management would be good.