phreatophile wrote: »

I think it's a good idea.
Brace yourself for the flood of vitriol from all the folks who only want to hear about nerfs and vampires in the same sentence. Let's see if I can beat them in with the first twilight reference.

<insert comments about glowey teen fangers just sophisticated enough for preschool playground here>

Seriously, even some ranks beyond 10 in the skill line would be cool.

Good to see I didn't waste 2 hours fleshing this idea out earlier. Will probably copy/paste post it over soon.

Numbers are just fillers though, so it won't be idealistic.

Provided the improvements don't overpower those of us who don't want to be a vampire or werewolf, then fine, go for it.

Would prefer if Veteran ranks did not send us to rehash story quests in other alliance zones at all. That these quests exist as reiterations of their lower level versions is equally disappointing.

Have both Werewolf and Vampire lines leveled to 10. Feel the existing forms are quite sufficient.
Looking forward to the Werewolf changes, but really the fix so that Werewolf can CC break is more than enough in my book.

Maybe give level 10 Werewolves and Vampires a title to go with the Dye, and give Werewolves a costume they can equip to appear as a Werewolf for roleplay purposes.

Blain wrote: »

Mind you, all the quests would be rebalanced for those areas, like how currently even at level 38 they're a pain in the ass if you don't have a good rotation/use a bow.

And you use a bow... how, as a nine foot tall snarling deathbeast, exactly?

Snark aside, both Werewolves and Vampires need more variety. I don't think artificially tacking on more levels is the answer. Particularly because the later werewolf tiers basically demand you have a farming system set up.

Werewolves are already getting beefed up, though I really thing the transform shouldn't be timed. It's still the single most expensive ultimate in the game and there is still a massive trade off for turning it on. Now, I can keep a transform going for five or six minutes with devour, but giving us the ability to turn it off when we want to instead of automatically would be really great. Especially given that werewolf packs work best when everyone is wolfed out, and the duration on that is pretty limited. (And, yes, you can cancel out of the transformation. I'm talking about getting rid of the timer.)

If we could swing it, I think some of the alternate lycanthropy variations would also be really nice transitions, such as the Wereboars, Werebears, and Werebats. Available to players as alternatives. Though, I get that could be somewhat unmanageable.

With vampires, there really needs to be more variety available. I know that players are all infected with a very specific strain of vampirism, but Tamriel is a continent with a psychotic variety of vampire strains.

It would be freakin' amazing if the player's race unlocked an additional power or two and a passive for vampires of that race, or the ability to pick one of the Tamerilic clans and get specific additional ability options. Imperials get the Cyrodillic strain's ability to be undetectable when fully fed. Bosmer have an improved version of mistform... of course the elephant in the room is the Clan Volkihar Vampire Lord transform, which... I won't lie, it would be awesome as hell to get that, in the same sort of way that werewolves have an alternate form Ultimate. Though, it would probably require an entirely new skill line.

Also, with vampires, just tossing this one out there, the duration of feeding stages should probably be extended to an in game day, or close to one. Once the justice system hits, that could then be layered with a KoS at stage 4 that people have been asking for.

starkerealm wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Would prefer if Veteran ranks did not send us to rehash story quests in other alliance zones at all. That these quests exist as reiterations of their lower level versions is equally disappointing.

Have both Werewolf and Vampire lines leveled to 10. Feel the existing forms are quite sufficient.
Looking forward to the Werewolf changes, but really the fix so that Werewolf can CC break is more than enough in my book.

Maybe give level 10 Werewolves and Vampires a title to go with the Dye, and give Werewolves a costume they can equip to appear as a Werewolf for roleplay purposes.

It occurs to me, you could have a werewolf "transform" and a vampire "disguise" active, with relatively minor buffs that just works as a standard toggle. It'd achieve basically the same results. Though, I still think the wolf transform not having a timer attached to it would do wonders for the RP crowd.

I agree with Werewolf Transform not having a timer put on it.

I had the most fun with my WW when I ran into the "getting hit by enemy mid-transform" Bug that let me stay that way for an hour. I literally traveled in circles mauling enemies. It was so much fun!! I actually remember yelling out "This is so awesome" while I was playing it. Then it ended and reality at how show crappy WW actually is when timed set in. The disappointment hurt harder than coming off a high.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

A timer on WW, yea it's kinda bad but a toggle on and off? No.

Part of the problem with the transform right now is that the timer is simply way too tight. I haven't put a stopwatch on it, but it's somewhere under 30 seconds. (EDIT: I think it's 10 seconds, but I could be wrong.) Devour refreshes 1/3 of the timer (it used to be 1/4th), and the result is a system that, while fun, never gives you a moment to actually enjoy what you're doing. You need to jump into the next fray as fast as possible or lose the transform.

Unlimited may be swinging too far in the other direction, that I can agree with. But, the existing timer is way too tight.

Also, unless someone knows of a more expensive one, the Werewolf transform is still the single most expensive ultimate in the game (at 500 (400 once it hits rank IV)). Even on a good ultimate build it takes awhile to build it up, and transforming back out flushes that. So, when I'm saying it shouldn't have a timer, I don't mean you shouldn't have to work up 500 ultimate. In fact, if we actually got rid of the timer I, for one, wouldn't object to the return of the 1k ultimate cost the transform used to have. I have no problem with having to earn the transform, but the timer just means you need to push on rather than bask in your victory.

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Provided the improvements don't overpower those of us who don't want to be a vampire or werewolf, then fine, go for it.

Yes I agree, happy for you guys to have content unique to Vampires/Warewolves as long as it doesn't unbalance gameplay for people who specifically do not want to be either of these.

Personally, I think Vampires and Warewolves are already at an advantage through having additional skills available to them and I don't think its fair to more or less "force" people down one of these paths to be competitive.

Then again I'm all for the idea of abominations (which is what Vampires and Warewolves are) being KoS if caught feeding in public areas.

starkerealm wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

A timer on WW, yea it's kinda bad but a toggle on and off? No.

Unlimited may be swinging too far in the other direction, that I can agree with. But, the existing timer is way too tight.

Yea, I think a minute would be fair. with each devour adding 20 seconds and a 15 second cooldown on devours.

That sounds fair to me, maybe even a little generous.

Sure it's fun but some more skills that aren't gamebreaking would be awesome. WW is getting more than 2 active abilities.
Why can't Vamp have a few? So long as they don't become ridiculously overdone.

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

A timer on WW, yea it's kinda bad but a toggle on and off? No.

Unlimited may be swinging too far in the other direction, that I can agree with. But, the existing timer is way too tight.

Yea, I think a minute would be fair. with each devour adding 20 seconds and a 15 second cooldown on devours.

That sounds fair to me, maybe even a little generous.

Alternately, a 30 second timer that doesn't count down while you're in combat. I know there's the persistent "in combat" bug, but once that gets dealt with... it would do wonders for allowing you to use Werewolves on something other than trash mobs, when you're not zerging.

Another possibility, on the unlimited transform, would be to tie vital functionality to the devour ability. If you had 0 health regen, or even gradual health loss (like in Morrowind) until you chowed down on someone, and then disabled the health loss until the end of the transform, but only had health regen for 20 or 30 seconds... it could work. Particularly if some of the passives were tied to having used devour.

There's a lot of ways to mechanically improve it. Part of the problem right now is, if you're not running in a pack of at least 3 other players (werewolves or not), the skill line is incredibly tricky to use. It would be really neat to be able to legitimately use the wolf form to help tank a boss, particularly if they got a taunt option somewhere. The skill line is built for that, and it'd be nice to be able to follow through.

So I have more than one Vampire 10, and Wolf 10. I've got a fairly good experience playing both of them since the beginning of the game.

On the other hand, my main character is also a Templar who I really can't stomach the idea of being either vampire or werewolf. For this character, I honestly wish there were a lot more to play with than the Fighters Guild toys. I wish that Silver Leash pulled in everyone, not just vampires. I wish instead of a ridiculous uber proc that can one shot someone, I just had a nasty extra bit of damage at all times.

I would also love to see more Fighters Guild abilities that are totally unrelated to hunting everything Stendarr abhors and more related to common Knightly/Warrior pursuits that the Fighters Guild is known for. This is one reason why I'm frustrated by Silver Leash as an ability. So I suppose in the realm of this conversation I'm also saying I'd like to see the Fighters Guild get a little love in this regard as well, perhaps with skill lines of a more martial aspect, and a few spiritual ones that by their association with the aedra would not be workable by werewolves and vampires.

I'm very excited to see the future improvements to Werewolves. I personally haven't shapeshifted in ages on my werewolf characters because it is just not expedient to do so. The human/mer form is just vastly stronger than the Wolf form. I think the suggestion that there be possibly other Were forms is fantastic, if they could program it I'd love it.

All in all though, I have a feeling that in the short term everything surrounding the Justice System (Guards/Thieves/Assassins), Champion System, and Spellcrafting system (including whatever weapon based analog they had in mind) are probably going to take up a lot more of their time for a while. Who knows though, perhaps spellcrafting will eventually make it possible to morph existing skill abilities in different ways, which in turn could do what you guys are asking.

Also the introduction of a Dawnguard skill line would be pretty bad@ss as well.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I like the Dawnguard in Skyrim, but from a theme perspective I believe it would make more sense if the organization were the Vigilants of Stendarr in this era. The Dawnguard were a more localized affair, and while they did exist in ancient times under the rule of a Duke/Thane/Whatever of south eastern Skyrim, I don't know if it makes sense for ESO. The overall theme is cool though, and I think it would be neat if they had the Vigilants.

The Vigilant of Stendarr were an organization founded after the oblivion crisis. The problem with the Dawnguard as well is as you said, it's localized to skyrim - which I'm cool with - but could pose some issues for implementation.

Edit: it seems to make more sense holding the "monster hunting" skills in the fighters guild atm because ...

I thought the 4th era only saw the resurgence of the Vigilants. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, I'm fairly comfortable saying that the followers of Stendarr have always held a disdain for the daedric.