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proposal to balance zergballs: no-cap offensive support ability as a Caltrops synergy

glak
glak
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Problem
Need a way to make zergballs (stack & AoE) much less attractive in AvA. ZOS says zergballing is a valid tactic. But the tactic is part of the stacking meta and has no downsides that anyone is willing to communicate.

Proposal
A new Support skill acquired early to be used via enough players at once to burst down a zergball that hit a Caltrops trap.
o targets a player at first
o has no AoE cap or cast time
o 28m range
o affects other targets in a short radius (3m)
o causes only burst damage
o Doesn’t count as a projectile
o could be a set of daedric spears thrust from the ground underneath the targeted player. This animation could be reused from the recent arena content.

Avoidance
The zergball would have to avoid Caltrops OR split up substantially via dodge roll to avoid causing damage to the rest of the zergball.

Discussion
Please leave out discussion on AoE caps as that topic ruins any discussion about alternatives and gets players nowhere with Zenimax.
  • Aoe_Barbecue
    Aoe_Barbecue
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    Alternatively, they could introduce Plague Rider.

    MEGA BEST FRIENDS

    Shape without form, shade without colour,
    Paralysed force, gesture without motion
  • Sypher
    Sypher
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    The Sypher Ballista:
    Targets hit by this ballista take 250 un resistible damage. Increase Ballista damage by 250 for every player hit in the AOE.

    So if the ballista only hits you. You only take 250 damage. But if it hits you and the 10 guys behind you hugging up on each other. Then you take 2750 damage.

    No more zergballing.
    DC Dragonknight 'Sypher - AD Nightblade Sypher Ali - AD Sorcerer Sypher Sensei - EP Sorcerer Sypharian - DC Templar Ali Sypher

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  • Zintair
    Zintair
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    If the developers say it is a valid tactic then how exactly is it a problem? And why did you decide to post the dumbest idea to counter it anyway?

    You really had me laughing at the avoidance part.
    Vokundein
    Zintair aka Primetime - VR14 - Guild Leader and PvP Dept Leader

    www.Legend-Gaming.net
  • EisregenX90
    EisregenX90
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    The Sypher Ballista:
    Targets hit by this ballista take 250 un resistible damage. Increase Ballista damage by 250 for every player hit in the AOE.

    So if the ballista only hits you. You only take 250 damage. But if it hits you and the 10 guys behind you hugging up on each other. Then you take 2750 damage.

    No more zergballing.

    ---> you just need 1 person to defend a fort cause you just need to hit the group when passing the hole in your wall

  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Why do we have to come up with far-fetched ideas when the solution is simple and in front of our eyes.

    Remove the AoE caps and even the playing field. End of story
    EU | PC | AD
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    The Sypher Ballista:
    Targets hit by this ballista take 250 un resistible damage. Increase Ballista damage by 250 for every player hit in the AOE.

    So if the ballista only hits you. You only take 250 damage. But if it hits you and the 10 guys behind you hugging up on each other. Then you take 2750 damage.

    No more zergballing.

    ---> you just need 1 person to defend a fort cause you just need to hit the group when passing the hole in your wall

    Nothing prevents you from making another hole ;)

    That said, I agree that just lifting AoE caps would be an easier solution (keep them for skills like batswarm though)
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    So you are going to replace lag inducing zergball aoe with another lag inducing aoe ?

    Sorry...don't see this as a fix. Nor lifting the aoe caps (just makes aoe more powerful and unbalanced). Still 1000s of calcs to do.

    How about cut down aoe damage by 90%...then its more viable to charge in with weapons....much less load on the server.
    Edited by Rune_Relic on September 30, 2014 2:48PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • glak
    glak
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    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    So you are going to replace lag inducing zergball aoe with another lag inducing aoe ?

    Sorry...don't see this as a fix. Nor lifting the aoe caps (just makes aoe more powerful and unbalanced). Still 1000s of calcs to do.

    How about cut down aoe damage by 90%...then its more viable to charge in with weapons....much less load on the server.

    The solution ZOS is currently considering involves healing remaining capped at 6 targets, but AoE damage being unlimited in the number of targets it can affect. In a sense, they will lift all damaging AoE caps as feared above.

    But as you suggested, they will subject that damage to a damage falloff effect where as an AoE hits more and more targets, the damage dealt to additional targets decreases by some scaled percentage.

    And ZOS is looking to add an AoE damage ability to one of the alliance skill lines.
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    glak wrote: »
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    So you are going to replace lag inducing zergball aoe with another lag inducing aoe ?

    Sorry...don't see this as a fix. Nor lifting the aoe caps (just makes aoe more powerful and unbalanced). Still 1000s of calcs to do.

    How about cut down aoe damage by 90%...then its more viable to charge in with weapons....much less load on the server.

    The solution ZOS is currently considering involves healing remaining capped at 6 targets, but AoE damage being unlimited in the number of targets it can affect. In a sense, they will lift all damaging AoE caps as feared above.

    But as you suggested, they will subject that damage to a damage falloff effect where as an AoE hits more and more targets, the damage dealt to additional targets decreases by some scaled percentage.

    And ZOS is looking to add an AoE damage ability to one of the alliance skill lines.

    Yeah... I see the update on TF tah.
    I dont know...if the area range is a dyamic variable (like stealth detection)...then maybe.

    Still wont effect the problem of aoe spam though unless only a few can use it effectively area wise (yeah...likely when everyone is a caster). AND

    the more damage you do ...the more healers I will stack...the more healing springs going off....the greater the lag. You still wont win.....just means I will have less damage dealers in the group....but you upped their power anyway by removing the caps.

    Thats actually why I suggested tying aoe area to stamina while shoving weapon damage on health and magicka damage on magicka. That way you can be a really powerful mage or really powerful fighter but your aoe will suck unless you sacrifice damage for area (stamina).

    Would you prefer immense touch damage or or OK damage with a good aoe area.
    Edited by Rune_Relic on October 3, 2014 7:23PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
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