Pallmor wrote: »

For all of you who are so dissatisfied, who do nothing on these boards but complain, I have to ask you a question, "Why are you still here?"

There's the door, right over there. No one is forcing you to pay or play. If you think there is a better MMO out there, go find it. If you think ZOS are such idiots, then go find a game designed by geniuses. ZOS owes you *NOTHING*. You owe ZOS *NOTHING*. Feel free to leave anytime.

I mean, do you just pay $15/month to come on these message boards and complain? Because if you really hate the game that much, and you have NOTHING good to say about it, then I'm pretty sure no one is going to miss you.

Pallmor wrote: »

For all of you who are so dissatisfied, who do nothing on these boards but complain, I have to ask you a question, "Why are you still here?"

There's the door, right over there. No one is forcing you to pay or play. If you think there is a better MMO out there, go find it. If you think ZOS are such idiots, then go find a game designed by geniuses. ZOS owes you *NOTHING*. You owe ZOS *NOTHING*. Feel free to leave anytime.

I mean, do you just pay $15/month to come on these message boards and complain? Because if you really hate the game that much, and you have NOTHING good to say about it, then I'm pretty sure no one is going to miss you.

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

For all of you who are so dissatisfied, who do nothing on these boards but complain, I have to ask you a question, "Why are you still here?"

There's the door, right over there. No one is forcing you to pay or play. If you think there is a better MMO out there, go find it. If you think ZOS are such idiots, then go find a game designed by geniuses. ZOS owes you *NOTHING*. You owe ZOS *NOTHING*. Feel free to leave anytime.

I mean, do you just pay $15/month to come on these message boards and complain? Because if you really hate the game that much, and you have NOTHING good to say about it, then I'm pretty sure no one is going to miss you.

Always good for a game, players leaving. Makes total sense.

Chubbaz wrote: »

As the title suggests with the current way of things I strongly believe this is the only way.

ESO is still a buggy beta and although it's been out for a little short of half a year it's hilarious that it is still in a poor state.

Why should we pay monthly for a game that's not even 100% done and polished on top of the initial price we had to pay with no additional rewards or a thank you from Zeni for sticking around through what has been a very chaotic and turbulent time? Final Fantasy XIV relaunched after the original was a colossal flop but their relaunch was actually successful and still has many people playing. I hope Zeni takes notes and does the same thing, call it a fresh start if you will but those who have stuck around should get like an additional title or something when it goes back up.

As we are paying customers I feel we should be getting a bit more for what we're paying for each month. I love this game as much as the next guy and I thank Zeni for all their hard work but a bit of downtime would fix alot of problems.

lordrichter wrote: »

nothing to see here

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

You want high quality, bug-free software? Get out of your comfy chair, go get a degree in CS, and start developing games yourself. Try to get a title out of the door without starving in-between. Then you can talk.

I have an MSC in CS actually, in particular AI and fuzzy logic; thanks and most of my early adult life after a short army career was spent in the game industry. Before any screeching starts from others about proving it, anyone can feel to PM me is it matters that much to you.

Your logic is totally broken, strawman and pointless; to defend your apologising.

Yes anyone willing to pay money for something that doesn't actually work is either stupid or at best just needs to play to get their fix.

No one said bugs won't happen, no one said making MMOs was easy and anyone could do it just simply by having a CS degree.

None of that defends patch notes that claim something has been fixed when it hasn't, none of that defends entire server crashes and roll backs losing your the scroll your faction just spent 4 hours trying to claim, none of that defends 15 seconds of lag every night on a PVP shard that isn't yet locked.

That's before I even address the fact they either have next to no QA or they are just simply not listening to them, because I don't buy it, there have been too many game breaking bugs for it to just be passed off as "meh it's just bugs".

They don't care as long as people keep patting them on the back and feeding them money,

Too harsh.

A lot of people really do not know the complexities of software development, let alone game development. The have never had to sit in The Chair and make the decision about whether to ship something now or wait until it is done. People think that is a no-brainer, but it is not.

It is not about defending them, it is about having an understanding about what is going on that allows someone to tell when they are being lazy, when they made a mistake, or when something else is going on.

heyguyslol wrote: »

Zos has burned so many bridges with ppl that no matter what they do now they will have to survive off the few fanboi's who are willing to turn a blind eye for them. Most ppl learned from this experience and they will not to buy another game made by zos.

Probitas wrote: »

@Pallmor- really, complaining about complainers is pot meets kettle of the worst sort. Forum, place for discussion, positive or negative, even neutral. Learn to be more accepting. Or better, argue back rationally about why the complaints have no substance, if you are able. Telling people to leave is just the worse kind of forum behavior. Paying customers have their right to communicate, and if the people who run the forum wish to ban such dissent they have that right, it is their board, but see Official LOTRO and Unofficial LOTRO for how that plays out.

Pallmor wrote: »

Probitas wrote: »

@Pallmor- really, complaining about complainers is pot meets kettle of the worst sort. Forum, place for discussion, positive or negative, even neutral. Learn to be more accepting. Or better, argue back rationally about why the complaints have no substance, if you are able. Telling people to leave is just the worse kind of forum behavior. Paying customers have their right to communicate, and if the people who run the forum wish to ban such dissent they have that right, it is their board, but see Official LOTRO and Unofficial LOTRO for how that plays out.

Sorry, but I'm not going to be "accepting" of people who call for the game to be shut down. It's one thing to say "Here are some problems with this game" (I've done that plenty of times myself). It's quite another to say "This game is so hopelessly broken that it should just be shut down!" Aside from not being factually true (I've played a LOT of games that were WAY more buggy than ESO), it's an insult to all of us who actually do enjoy this game.

If you think the game is so bad and so hopeless that you've decided to publicly call for it to be shut down, then you SHOULD LEAVE. Goodbye, there's the door, keep your $15/month. End of story.

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Requiemslove wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

gideon_nine_ESO wrote: »

SgtPepperUK wrote: »

... FFXIV (a game I also play) failed at launch but the 2.0 version is stable and doing well.

Do you think FFXIV would have been as good as it is if it didn't shut down and re-launch.

I'm not agreeing with OP. I don't think ESO should do this... My questions is one of pure curiosity.

Actually had they not forced Tanaka to release half way through and had they of fixed the problems with it instead of taking it offline and "Fixing" it , then it would have been much better.

As a big FF7 fan [and subsequently latter titles but not so big] I often wonder about the FF MMO, what is it like exactly? All I ever hear about that is a decidedly mixed bag.

Are you wondering about 1.0 or 2.0?

1.0 was the first launch. It was the best looking MMO out and was just beautiful. Instead of being zoned off it was just one huge world. It did not force you to one way or another so you could very well wander off just to explore but could find yourself in areas with enemies very high above your own. From the get go you had to literally learn to play because if you didn't you could get killed by enemies who where at lower levels than you.

Combat was on a cool down but you had TP to pull off skills and could link them and create combos. So you could attack say 3 times build up enough TP to pull off 1 skill but that one skill could would take all the TP you have but subsequent skills wouldn't cost TP if they followed the Combo. One of my combos wold refill TP one would refill MP so depending on the situation I could choose to battle how I wanted.

You could level all your classes and mix and match any skill from any class you wanted. My main fighting style was a paladin but I leveled up pugilist so I could use second wind which would give me some HP in case I needed it in an emergency. You could also put points not just to normal points but also to elementals which would allow you to be more resistant to those elements. High Fire resistant meant you wouldn't take as much damage from a fire monster.

Like I said it was much more difficult because and enemy at your level or even a few levels below you could easily kill you if you didn't pay attention but the battling was rewarding and punishing. If you could beat an enemy quick enough this countdown would start and if you beat another one before the countdown finished it would start again and give you bonus XP for each enemy defeated within a time limit. If you died you got weakened for about 5 minutes. That means all your stats went down by a percentage.

Unfortunately it was so poorly optimized and hard to run that even high end gaming rigs had trouble running the game. I had a pretty good computer at the time and had to run it at medium just to play. The lag was so awful in towns that it would seriously be about 30-45 second lag spikes.

There where no quests like hardly at all. There where your main story quests at levels 1, 10, 20, 35 and 50. On the way to level 50 I think i found maybe a dozen side quests. So the only way to level was to do leves which you only got 8 a day. That was it. The thought was to get people to start groups and share leves so a group of 4 people doing each of their 8 a day would be 32 leves. Unfortuantely people like to solo everything so obviously that didn't work so well.

There was no AH there either instead they had retainers that you put your items in and then stuck them all around town or in market wards and people would search through your retainer. There where wards for everything like one for Armor one for Weapon, one fore Food ect ect. But you only got one retainer so someone with a retainer in the food ward might have the weapon you want but there was no way to find out without going to each of the 20 wards and searching each of the 200 retainers per ward.

Crafting was mixed and hard to do. Imagine having a low percent chance of making any time but needing items from 4 different craftings to make the one you need. So to make that level 8 sword you needed to be a level 12 lumbersmith to make the handle, a level 6 goldsmith to make the pommel, a level 15 armorer to make the ingots and a level 12 weaponsmith to make the level 8 weapon.

In comes 2.0

They took out the whole open world and zoned everything. Each zone is about 1/100th the size of the maps that where in 1.0. By Chocobo you can litterally run from the last zone through all 5 zones to the main city in about 2 minutes. And everything in those zones is now packed together and filled with enemies and little hovel towns which aren't really towns at all. The enemies are so weak you can kill multiple mobs 7 levels above you without fear. They are all tethered to small spots so you could be at a low level and run straight through the higher zones with no worry.

The put in a global AH but couldn't get rid of the bots so the entire market crashed and within a week people who where max level and getting the rarest items had to sell them for less than 100g to even compete. The entire level up process was so slow that playing casually and taking my sweet time I was still at max level in less than 2 weeks. Then when you get to endgame what do you get to look forward to? Weekly lockouts and elitist jerks. The whole game is now built around meta builds. No matter what class you have you have 1 build and if you stray at all you get shunned.

Fights are now scripted and play the exact same way every single time no matter what. And you have to fight that fight 10000 times to get that piece of gear you need to do the next thing. Or you'll have to run it 100 times a week for 4 weeks on end to get enough to trade in for an item. Then every 3 months they introduce the next tier of items so the new dungeons are the challenge and all the dungeons you just ran and worked your butt off to complete get nerfed to where even terrible players can clear them with ease. There is still lag in 2.0 but it is actually built into the game to give an illusion of difficulty.

The crafting in 2.0 is pretty much useless as the best gear is always obtained by dungeons and raids and so far exceeds crafted gear that crafted gear is pointless to even try. They finally introduced PVP into 2.0 but it was a joke. They made it where you couldn't be hurt if you where in the air so instead of it being based on skill it came down to which healer could jump the longest. And of course the PVP was filled with botters so if you pugged a PVP group youd be lucky if more than 1 of your team mates was human.

Then of course the lies from Square. You think ZOS is bad about player interaction because the Road ahead isn't monthly or because they don't respond to every player post every single time? There was a mount you could only get in 1.0 called a Goobue. They said that mount would not be available to 2.0 players since it was 1.0 specific. Well they took the mount took the grass off its head and put on a flower wreath and re-released it for 2.0. When 2.0 started they took most of the money 1.0 people had made. It took 10 x as long for a 1.0 player to make gil as it did in 2.0 But if a 1.0 player had 10,000 gil at the end of 1.0 they came back to having 1,000 gil left in 2.0. Then they released guild housing which was ridiculously expensive starting in the millions for a small guild house. When they introduced housing they took more of 1.0 players money even if they had made it in 2.0 So if you where a 1.0 player with 100,000 gil made in 2.0 guess what? Housing pops up and you get to go back down to 10,000 yay! They also said that 2.0 would be the game that 1.0 players deserved and that was a load of crap. They went from being an interesting game with huge world, dangerous monsters, and a reason to player to a pathetic generic gear grind with content nerfs ever 3 months.

TLDR: If Final Fantasy ARR is considered a success and this ones a failure I would much prefer a failed title.

Greatfellow wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

From what I hear, this game is no where near as bad as games who've had to utilize such a tactic in the past (only one I know of is FFXIV)

The major problem is spoiled gamers that think everything should be perfectly polished and prim and pretty so they can play with it on day 1 This ain't the perfect world we all wish it were..

I get it, you've been spoiled by older games that have ironed their wrinkles out, it's okay, it happens to all of us.

We forget that outstanding games have to start somewhere, all we see is the finished products this game isn't as bug free as, as smoothly running as. And we forget that this game is in it's infancy.

Game companies don't have pow-wows and put their heads together to make sure their competitors come out with products just as bug free and silky as their multi year old product. That's never going to happen.

Buckle down, embrace the suck and drive on. It's going to get better.

If not, cut sling load and come back in a few months to check on how the game progressed. Then bask in it's awesomeness while lamenting the fact you took the easy road.

Nothing good ever came without a price, suffering through this game's stumbles is our price of admission to the field of epicness that lies ahead.

I'm in for the long haul. Your move.

yeah, how about those of us who understand excellence, don't expect perfection, and easily tolerate a game that is usable but improving. Like me. I an effing procedure analyst, paid to find practical solutions in imperfect environments on a regular basis. That said, my complaints are that ZOS is screwing up stuff every time they introduce new content, and not fixing foundational issues that have been identified for a long time. My sub runs out in nine or ten days. I'll check back in on this game in a few months. My suggestions to ZOS have been: 1) issue new content individually or small groups, frequently. then if you break something with new content it will be easier to pinpoint the culprit. 2) issue fixes constantly, not as part of large content updates. Hotpatch the hell out of the game. As you get a fix, apply it. 3) If your delivery process isn't set up to deliver the way 1) and 2) require, then change that process to accommodate 1) and 2).

I'm in for the long haul too. But that doesn't mean I'll sit here while the ship is in dock for repairs, or take a cruise on it while it stinks of sewage. Nah, I'll just keep checking in, in a few months, and see if they've freaking fixed it better than they've been doing.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Stop being silly. Game is not nearly as bugged now as it used to be. They have also made a lot of improvements to game balance. Its not perfect but it never will be.

I play a dps build and trust me things are a LOT better now than it used to be.