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Change Tooltips for Clarity!! NB's, Alch, Passive, Projectile, Hidden.
Soloeus
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1. There are a lot of passive skills (and passive components of active skills) where the tooltip description is unclear or deceptive. There are also a lack of Keywords used (Projectile, Hidden) which define the interaction and synch between different abilities and how they counter each other.
Nightblades are always QQ that their stealth is "broken" and when they use DOT it breaks them out of stealth. I will join them in part, QQ that the tooltip doesn't indicate that dealing/receiving DOT removes Hidden.
I propose to change tooltip to acknowledge that Cloak is broken by causing damage. This will fix the tooltip and solve the problem.
2. Another example is that Velicious Curse and Mages Wrath are projectiles. Tooltips don't say it, but they are.
Siege Shield reduces DPS from siege weapons and projectiles, so keeping up a siege shield helps with bow damage as you would expect, and some abilities that you wouldn't think of as a projectile but still are. I am not debating if they should be projectiles, but they are. It would be nice to know that information.
Everything that is a Projectile, or interacts with Projectiles needs that word added.
Everything that interacts with Hidden needs the word added.
Everything that gives CC Immunity needs that added.
Edited by Soloeus on September 30, 2014 12:42PM Nightblades are always QQ that their stealth is "broken" and when they use DOT it breaks them out of stealth. I will join them in part, QQ that the tooltip doesn't indicate that dealing/receiving DOT removes Hidden.
I propose to change tooltip to acknowledge that Cloak is broken by causing damage. This will fix the tooltip and solve the problem.
2. Another example is that Velicious Curse and Mages Wrath are projectiles. Tooltips don't say it, but they are.
Siege Shield reduces DPS from siege weapons and projectiles, so keeping up a siege shield helps with bow damage as you would expect, and some abilities that you wouldn't think of as a projectile but still are. I am not debating if they should be projectiles, but they are. It would be nice to know that information.
Everything that is a Projectile, or interacts with Projectiles needs that word added.
Everything that interacts with Hidden needs the word added.
Everything that gives CC Immunity needs that added.
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Rodario✭✭✭✭✭There are so many skills with DOTs as side effects, you almost always have one up on your target. If these ticks break stealth, then it's pretty useless and that can't be WAI. It makes sense for stealth to break because of DOTs on youself, which is why combat stealth in most games removes DOTs. But it certainly makes no sense for your stealth to break because of DOTs on enemies.Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭if i am spoted and my eye detector says i have been "Discovered" even if i have Not attacked anyone then that eye will remain open and will not close for very long periods of time and i do all i can to re-stealth but it does not work for very long periods of time. sometimes even as much as 20 to 30 minutes before i am able to restealth depending deferent situations.
it is not just from atacks, its just stealth itself is not working all the way around.0 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are so many skills with DOTs as side effects, you almost always have one up on your target. If these ticks break stealth, then it's pretty useless and that can't be WAI. It makes sense for stealth to break because of DOTs on youself, which is why combat stealth in most games removes DOTs. But it certainly makes no sense for your stealth to break because of DOTs on enemies.
1. The problem has nothing to do with "how it works." The problem is that how it works is unclear, people are led to believe placing a DOT on your enemy or receiving one will maintain your stealth. I am simply asking the tooltip to clarify otherwise.
"Any damage dealt or received in stealth removes hidden."
2. I get that you want the ability to "work" however I think we should all settle instead for a tooltip change. We have settled for this on other passives across the board, why not here too? Besides, once the tooltips are clear, and read what the ability actually does, then ZOS can tweak those abilities with what they "should do." One example would be Alchemy passive and Argonian passives for better potion. Another example would be mist form/morphs, and immovable/morphs (which don't prevent/break CC).
3. And you Nightblades should support this because the information you receive is among the worst.
And please, as for wanting your abilities to work in a way which is effective, keep up your crusade. Too many classes have too many borky or worthless abilities which is the real reason every class tends to run similar builds in PVP/Endgame. But for the sake of information correctness, support accurate tooltips.Edited by Soloeus on September 30, 2014 12:38PM
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Rodario✭✭✭✭✭Just so people know what the first few comments were responding to, here's the pre-edit OP, entitled "Change Nighblade Stealth Tooltip" (or similar).
Nightblades are always QQ that their stealth is "broken" and when they use DOT it breaks them out of stealth. I will join them in part, QQ that the tooltip doesn't indicate that dealing/receiving DOT removes Hidden.
I propose to change tooltip to acknowledge that Cloak is broken by causing damage. This will fix the tooltip and solve the problem.
I think the middle part was a bit different, but I can't put my finger on it.
I just now realized why some people quote the OP in their responses.Edited by Rodario on September 30, 2014 12:50PMVictoria Lux - Templar Tank
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Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just so people know what the first few comments were responding to, here's the pre-edit OP, entitled "Change Nighblade Stealth Tooltip" (or similar).
Nightblades are always QQ that their stealth is "broken" and when they use DOT it breaks them out of stealth. I will join them in part, QQ that the tooltip doesn't indicate that dealing/receiving DOT removes Hidden.
I propose to change tooltip to acknowledge that Cloak is broken by causing damage. This will fix the tooltip and solve the problem.
I think the middle part was a bit different, but I can't put my finger on it.
I just now realized why some people quote the OP in their responses.
And from there the topic evolved and the post was amended to include multiple examples.
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
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Nightblades are always QQ that their stealth is "broken" and when they use DOT it breaks them out of stealth. I will join them in part, QQ that the tooltip doesn't indicate that dealing/receiving DOT removes Hidden.
I propose to change tooltip to acknowledge that Cloak is broken by causing damage. This will fix the tooltip and solve the problem.
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This supposed "QQ" was caused predominately by the community manager explicitly stating, back in May, that DoT effects are not intended to break Cloak:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/100627/nightblade-update/p1ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Incoming Fixes & Improvements
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Outstanding Known Issues
Patch 1.1.2 fixed many outstanding Nightblade issues, but below are some that we are either actively investigating, working on fixes for now, or have recently fixed and will push in a future patch. Please note this list does not reflect every reported Nightblade issue we are currently investigating.
General: Currently, a Nightblade’s own residual outgoing damage-over-time ticks break his or her invisibility. This is not intended, and will be fixed in a future patch.
Dark Cloak (Shadow Cloak morph): Dark Cloak is not currently removing damage-over-time (DoT) debuffs as it should be. We’re currently investigating this issue to determine which DoTs are not being removed by Dark Cloak.
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As such, it would make no sense to change any tooltips to wrongfully claim that having a DoT effect on the enemy will break Invisibility; it is not intended to do that, and was an acknowledged bug.
Suppose tooltip modifications could be added to read "this DoT effect should not break Invisibility, if it does please send us a /bug report" though.
Do not think many players would have complained so long if it was not for ZOS explicitly stating it was bugged, then not getting around to fixing it for several months.
This is not as large of an issue any longer though; half of the issue has been fixed. As of 1.4.4 almost all DoTs can remain active on the enemy without breaking my Invisibility. The exception appears to be, oddly enough, if multiple DoTs are active on the enemy Invisibility will break (ie: Cripple no longer individually breaks it, Path of Darkness no longer individually breaks it; however, if both Cripple and Path of Darkness are simultaneously active, Invisibility will break...it's still significantly improved from before though).
As Jessica noted, Dark Cloak still needs to be fixed to properly remove DoT effects active on the Nightblade, as there are still some which break the morph that is specifically designed to remove them."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭In the same situation, when I press 4 to Crushing Shock you and I see the beam hit but you vanish before the damage can hit, I know your ability is also broken in a way that is to your advantage.
Many instant spells let you "evade" just by cloaking even when you should be hit.
Dark Cloak works fine, just change the tooltip and be done with it. Or, if the ability if broken and the issue is being looked into, use a keyword for that.
*BETA would be a good keyword to warn players "This ability might not function."
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AssaultLemming✭✭✭✭For myself I would like to see whether skills use weapon or spell damage and crit.
And anywhere they say "allies" should be changed to "allies and the caster"2 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭AssaultLemming wrote: »For myself I would like to see whether skills use weapon or spell damage and crit.
And anywhere they say "allies" should be changed to "allies and the caster"
I agree on both counts!
I would always like to know if I receive benefit of my own abilities. There have been times where Blessing of Restoration (in PVE) didn't heal me, and other times where it has. I don't know what/why/where it does what/why/where.
I would also like to see in each tooltip if Weapon or Spell Damage, and Crit.
This is the kind of information that needs to be presented to the player in the game.
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