Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 8, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 8, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available.
Close The Game, Give Refund, Relaunch Later.
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smacx250✭✭✭✭✭
You may have just made a life changing personal breakthrough! Untold numbers have lead miserable lives always "striving for perfection". Instead, work on being happy! Your smile, and the smiles of those around you, will let you know you made the right decision!Instead of striving for perfection I guess we need to lower our expectations from now on.
I'll just need to make this adjustment after a lifetime of being told that I(we)must always strive to do the best we can. Obviously, this is the best I can expect from ZM for now.
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Fissh✭✭✭✭✭
ROFL - now your inventing facts. That was 10 years ago. I know because I was playing at the time.
The state of the game itself was amazing - the servers would drop here and there and there would be maintainence but people couldnt wait to log on. There was around 5 million subscribers at the time. The same time that ESO has 700k
Dont simply invent a fact to support your post - too many of us can call ***
WoW first year was 1.5million. It didn't reach 10 million till 3-4 years later. And "servers would drop here and there"? They would drop for DAYS at a time. And who was their competition? Certainly not the many many variety of MMOs we have these days.
This is online gaming. It takes LIVE servers, and MANY users to iron out the bugs fully. ALLLL MMO's dont reach 'golden years' till 2-3 years into its life. This day and age games live on the edge because of the ignorance of the community. People hop onto forums with self-entitled anger to demand things as a 'paying consumer'. The reality is that it takes a COMMUNITY to make this game reach its 'golden years', not a THREAD. /bug properly, and be patient. The devs have responded to almost EVERYTHING the community has asked about. They have been more diligent than ANY other MMO I have ever played (and that list is in the teens). They address the community at an unbelievable level. You, and the rest of these whiners should read up on development, and thereby become more constructive in your opinions.
p.s. pulling someone's card that is "inventing facts" does not give you the go ahead to invent facts.
<X-Raided>4 -
Elf_Boy✭✭✭Rofl -- Your funny.
Like so many others here I am quite happy with the state of the game and looking forward to all the new features and content being cooked up for us.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on September 30, 2014 1:10PM** Asus Crosshair VI Hero, Ryzen 1800x, 64GB DDR4 @ 3000, GTX 1080 ti, 4K Samsung 3d Display m.2 Sata 3 Boot Drive, m.2 x4 nvme Game Drive **2 -
LOL utterly ridiculous .yes the game has issues but no more or less than other mmo's at this juncture. Game is fun. Yeah it may not be for everyone, but most of all I love how the OP says "we" ,like he talks for everyone lol
If you don't care for the game ,un sub then, that's how you speak, with your money. If you don't like it, use the door imo
Personally I love the game, think its great and hope to play it for a long time to come.
Keep up the great work Dev's........don't listen to the trolls and whiners(mostly what people use game forums for anyways)4 -
Kreetar✭✭✭yeah, this is definitely not the answer.
every day, they are working towards making the game better for players. however, how hard they may or may not be working always seems to be a popular topic of debate. dip me in the blood of mortals and throw me to the Dremora0 -
Leeric✭✭✭✭It is weird all these other MMOs had huge bugs just when they release new content not even a new game, after years of being on the market, like WoW they still have those problems. Yet ESO takes all this crap for it. Yah some of the things are bugged. But I hardly experience any problems anymore and Im on a Mac...that should tell you something...2 -
Vatter✭✭✭✭✭Guys if you are having serious issues with the game and customer support refuses to give you a 100% resolved solution I suggest filing a complaint with the better business bureau. You have consumer rights no matter what anyone says. its completely free to file a complaint. The complaint will be handled by a moderator who will contact an official zos employee to get you some game time back.5
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Curragraigue✭✭✭✭✭
✭
...
Five abilities, which they try to sell as a perk and fanbois try to scream slotting/building is skill.. Haha it's only so console players can use their controllers. Weapon swap, LOLswap, lagging, is again for console players. It's not a perk. It's not innovative. That's their pitch that fanbois eat up as skill and selection. It's a step back for computer gamers who are nothing more than beta testers for console players (that's why they haven't released it to console. They don't want to run off their real market with this trash).
...
There was a whole lot of boring QQ in the post and there was only really one point I wanted to address.
As has been said repeatedly by the developers the limit of skills on the skill bar comes from the game series. Have you played the previous titles? Limited skills that you swap in and swap out depending on the fight is how the game series has operated. The last few games they have been pairing back the UI on the screen to make it cleaner. So no the Elder Scrolls Series is not going to give you your 100 skills on a bar game it just doesn't fit the series. If you want a UI that covers your screen with a 100 skills you came to the wrong game series.
As for the 'designed for console', the statement is just wrong. Go back and check the history of the game. It was going to be a PC only game, that was the target market. It was only after PS came to ZOS and showed them the capability of the PS4 that ZOS agreed to offer the game to console as well.
The game is not a beta for console the game is what it is. They are not going to give you your 100 skill bar to show of your touch typing skills so if that is what you want it might be time to move on.PUG Life - the true test of your skill
18 characters, 17 max level, at least 1 Stam and 1 Mag of every class, 1 of every race and 1200+ CP
Tanked to Undaunted 9+ Mag and Stam of every class using Group Finder for 90+% of the Vet Dungeon runs5 -
ZOS_UlyssesW✭✭✭Hello, folks.
We know that game issues are frustrating and our team is hard at work implementing fixes. That said we have had to remove several posts in this thread that were violating our Forum Code of Conduct. We ask that everyone take a moment to review our community rules, and remember, our goal on the forums is to foster a fun and welcoming environment in which everyone feels comfortable sharing their opinions.
We would also like to remind everyone to stay on topic, and do not engage in inflammatory discussions or resort to personal attacks against other forum members or ask other players to leave the game and the community. We appreciate feedback from all of our players, and we ask that others do not dissuade community members from playing or sharing their feedback.10 -
Redlag✭✭✭You have no idea what a buggy MMO is really like. One of the early MMO's I was involved with would regularly crash to the desktop. Having more than 40 avatars in the same area would often times crash the server. Of course, this was 10 years ago and a lot of advances have been made, but really, it seems like MMO's are always a work in progress. Actually I've been quite impressed with how well ESO runs most of the time. Can it be improved? Absolutely! It's just going to take some time. I don't think most people have any concept of how technically complex it is to put out ESO, and if you did, I'm sure you would be a bit more patient.
I played and beta tested most games from UO until 2009. Multiple games that weren't even released and shut down in production. The only game as bad as ESO that I can remember is ShadowBane (which was prone to crashes but developed way better than this). The infamous SE.XE crash anytime anyone tried to PvP with more than 20 players. PvP'ing in ESO is like taking a step back to 2002 ShadowBane. BUT I like WolfPack Studios. They were a small group of PvP'ers that made ShadowBane for PvPers. With pennies compared to what was invested in to this game.
You know, to me, this industry is better off taking an example from celebrities. Here's where Im addressing this issue from your angle. Instead of allowing a political mess on forums where ultra fanbois defend, lie, and shame anyone who doesn't have fun, or feel the game, their class, is going in any desirable direction. Don't shame people. Don't tell them to learn to play and/or allow them to be castrated. Own up like Hugh Grant when he was caught with a man/girl when he was out to buy love. He said, Im weak, Im a man, I did it. I hope you can forgive me and he was selling movies 2months later. Admit it, on a PR level it's gold. Just say hey, we're having problems. We're trying to sort them out. we know you're crashing. This is how we're trying to fix it. Admit your weaknesses. Say, we know you're crashing over and over, we want to find this problem. We want to fix it. It's embarrassing but we're having problems isolating the issues. It really sux because we want it to work. It's hurting our image and we want to be a good game that you enjoy. We're sorry, we're trying to make this fun for you.
Instead of having rabid ignorant fanbois telling everyone that they're wrong (PvE'ers telling PvP'ers there class is fine and to learn to play). They would find themselves with a population that is smart, willing to stick up for them on a real level and support them through true weakness. Not blindly condemn everyone who criticizes real problems.
The problem with this entire genre is that developers are leaving their forums to be defended by fanbois. Who shame and lie. Sometimes I have to wonder if it's not now mmo policy to stick one or 10 of your own in there to slander, belittle, mock, shame and discredit haters. I could save them all money. Tell the truth. You wont have to pay anyone. Oh [snip] this. My knowledge is too good for this [snip] forum.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on October 1, 2014 1:23PM7 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is weird all these other MMOs had huge bugs just when they release new content not even a new game, after years of being on the market, like WoW they still have those problems. Yet ESO takes all this crap for it. Yah some of the things are bugged. But I hardly experience any problems anymore and Im on a Mac...that should tell you something...
Yes. It tells us you don't PVP.0 -
Redlag✭✭✭Lol the game is no where near as buggy as in beta. I haven't had the game crash on me in weeks. And pvp balance is tough for any mmo. Wow patches would almost always op one class while nerfing another. Then it would switch in the next patch.
Wow is for newbs, but atleast it works when you pressed buttons.
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Desdemonte✭✭✭ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hello, folks.
We know that game issues are frustrating and our team is hard at work implementing fixes. That said we have had to remove several posts in this thread that were violating our Forum Code of Conduct. We ask that everyone take a moment to review our community rules, and remember, our goal on the forums is to foster a fun and welcoming environment in which everyone feels comfortable sharing their opinions.
We would also like to remind everyone to stay on topic, and do not engage in inflammatory discussions or resort to personal attacks against other forum members or ask other players to leave the game and the community. We appreciate feedback from all of our players, and we ask that others do not dissuade community members from playing or sharing their feedback.
You ever get the feeling that people say inflammatory things and break the CoC on purpose just to get *any* sort of feedback that ZOS is reading these threads?4 -
Sotha_Sil✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is not a Japanese company. So it's never going to happen !Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! - Spells and incantations for those with the talent to cast them!0 -
Ad.Absurdum✭✭Curragraigue wrote: »
...
Five abilities, which they try to sell as a perk and fanbois try to scream slotting/building is skill.. Haha it's only so console players can use their controllers. Weapon swap, LOLswap, lagging, is again for console players. It's not a perk. It's not innovative. That's their pitch that fanbois eat up as skill and selection. It's a step back for computer gamers who are nothing more than beta testers for console players (that's why they haven't released it to console. They don't want to run off their real market with this trash).
...
There was a whole lot of boring QQ in the post and there was only really one point I wanted to address.
As has been said repeatedly by the developers the limit of skills on the skill bar comes from the game series. Have you played the previous titles? Limited skills that you swap in and swap out depending on the fight is how the game series has operated. The last few games they have been pairing back the UI on the screen to make it cleaner. So no the Elder Scrolls Series is not going to give you your 100 skills on a bar game it just doesn't fit the series. If you want a UI that covers your screen with a 100 skills you came to the wrong game series.
As for the 'designed for console', the statement is just wrong. Go back and check the history of the game. It was going to be a PC only game, that was the target market. It was only after PS came to ZOS and showed them the capability of the PS4 that ZOS agreed to offer the game to console as well.
The game is not a beta for console the game is what it is. They are not going to give you your 100 skill bar to show of your touch typing skills so if that is what you want it might be time to move on.
well, then tell here how many skills you had in skyrim exactly? i would be very happy with the same amount in eso.
and there were enough complains about the superfancy minimalistic ui in skyrim and they just re-did it... i mean, it's completly ok if it was optional but to force you into that is just bad game design.
and the game is not coded for console? why then is the quickmenu round? why would you do such a silly arrangement for pc? zos only checked if the console spec is good enough for the game, then they announced OFFICIALLY that it will be released for console. you need to decide quite early in the development if you want to go in a certain direction and adjust things to that from the beginning - you can not simply decide such over night and then fix it afterwards. development is not working like that, sorry.
2 -
You have no idea what a buggy MMO is really like. One of the early MMO's I was involved with would regularly crash to the desktop. Having more than 40 avatars in the same area would often times crash the server. Of course, this was 10 years ago and a lot of advances have been made, but really, it seems like MMO's are always a work in progress. Actually I've been quite impressed with how well ESO runs most of the time. Can it be improved? Absolutely! It's just going to take some time. I don't think most people have any concept of how technically complex it is to put out ESO, and if you did, I'm sure you would be a bit more patient.
I played and beta tested most games from UO until 2009. Multiple games that weren't even released and shut down in production. The only game as bad as ESO that I can remember is ShadowBane (which was prone to crashes but developed way better than this). The infamous SE.XE crash anytime anyone tried to PvP with more than 20 players. PvP'ing in ESO is like taking a step back to 2002 ShadowBane. BUT I like WolfPack Studios. They were a small group of PvP'ers that made ShadowBane for PvPers. With pennies compared to what was invested in to this game.
You know, to me, this industry is better off taking an example from celebrities. Here's where Im addressing this issue from your angle. Instead of allowing a political mess on forums where ultra fanbois defend, lie, and shame anyone who doesn't have fun, or feel the game, their class, is going in any desirable direction. Don't shame people. Don't tell them to learn to play and/or allow them to be castrated. Own up like Hugh Grant when he was caught with a man/girl when he was out to buy love. He said, Im weak, Im a man, I did it. I hope you can forgive me and he was selling movies 2months later. Admit it, on a PR level it's gold. Just say hey, we're having problems. We're trying to sort them out. we know you're crashing. This is how we're trying to fix it. Admit your weaknesses. Say, we know you're crashing over and over, we want to find this problem. We want to fix it. It's embarrassing but we're having problems isolating the issues. It really sux because we want it to work. It's hurting our image and we want to be a good game that you enjoy. We're sorry, we're trying to make this fun for you.
Instead of having rabid ignorant fanbois telling everyone that they're wrong (PvE'ers telling PvP'ers there class is fine and to learn to play). They would find themselves with a population that is smart, willing to stick up for them on a real level and support them through true weakness. Not blindly condemn everyone who criticizes real problems.
The problem with this entire genre is that developers are leaving their forums to be defended by fanbois. Who shame and lie. Sometimes I have to wonder if it's not now mmo policy to stick one or 10 of your own in there to slander, belittle, mock, shame and discredit haters. I could save them all money. Tell the truth. You wont have to pay anyone. Oh [snip] this. My knowledge is too good for this [snip] forum.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]
They have done exactly as you have asked, if you read around the forums a bit, looked at patch notes read the dev post you would realize they know these problems exist, and they have said they are working on them. And you know what ? It has improved tremendously, I have 29 days played on my VR14 DK, a lot of that time was spent in Cyrodil, if you have done the same you too should have noticed the vast improvements. Calling this game broken could not be farther from the truth. I almost have cadwells gold completed, have done AA and hel ra, up to about round 8 in the DSA and have everything done in upper and lower craglorn and all of the vet dungeons, If things were as dire as the SAME HANDFUL of people claim it was none of that would be possible. I did run into bugs and annoyances but nothing that EVER made me feel I was not getting my money's worth. I don't post very often but when all the toxic people come on to the forums trying to speak for everyone it just boils my blood. I think the game is doing great and is heading in a direction where it will only get better. Last thing, no one is telling you that you can not critique the game, but do so constructively, doing that would give people the impression you DO care about the game and truly want to improve it. When you come on here ranting, calling people fanboys, and ignorant you just come off as a completely volatile person.Edited by Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO on October 1, 2014 11:30PM7 -
Greatfellow✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »From what I hear, this game is no where near as bad as games who've had to utilize such a tactic in the past (only one I know of is FFXIV)
The major problem is spoiled gamers that think everything should be perfectly polished and prim and pretty so they can play with it on day 1 This ain't the perfect world we all wish it were..
I get it, you've been spoiled by older games that have ironed their wrinkles out, it's okay, it happens to all of us.
We forget that outstanding games have to start somewhere, all we see is the finished products this game isn't as bug free as, as smoothly running as. And we forget that this game is in it's infancy.
Game companies don't have pow-wows and put their heads together to make sure their competitors come out with products just as bug free and silky as their multi year old product. That's never going to happen.
Buckle down, embrace the suck and drive on. It's going to get better.
If not, cut sling load and come back in a few months to check on how the game progressed. Then bask in it's awesomeness while lamenting the fact you took the easy road.
Nothing good ever came without a price, suffering through this game's stumbles is our price of admission to the field of epicness that lies ahead.
I'm in for the long haul. Your move.
yeah, how about those of us who understand excellence, don't expect perfection, and easily tolerate a game that is usable but improving. Like me. I an effing procedure analyst, paid to find practical solutions in imperfect environments on a regular basis. That said, my complaints are that ZOS is screwing up stuff every time they introduce new content, and not fixing foundational issues that have been identified for a long time. My sub runs out in nine or ten days. I'll check back in on this game in a few months. My suggestions to ZOS have been: 1) issue new content individually or small groups, frequently. then if you break something with new content it will be easier to pinpoint the culprit. 2) issue fixes constantly, not as part of large content updates. Hotpatch the hell out of the game. As you get a fix, apply it. 3) If your delivery process isn't set up to deliver the way 1) and 2) require, then change that process to accommodate 1) and 2).
I'm in for the long haul too. But that doesn't mean I'll sit here while the ship is in dock for repairs, or take a cruise on it while it stinks of sewage. Nah, I'll just keep checking in, in a few months, and see if they've freaking fixed it better than they've been doing.4 -
Limbus✭✭On the bright side we got another USELESS vanity pet, woohoo!Edited by Limbus on October 2, 2014 2:48AM5
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Rubiin✭I love the game but can understand others being frustrated at bugs etc . I am a collector and love completing recipe lists etc as i have in other games in the past. I know provisioning will be revamped in the future but atm no one can complete recipe lists as several including one epic are missing from the loot table , another is still named incorrectly and has been since launch. The improvement 1 blues are now on the same 20 hr timer as purples meaning unless you have a toon specifically for farming them slowly you will pass the lvls required to loot them without seeing one. Not big issues if you don't enjoy that part of the game but it is for those that do . Not sure how these issues are still out there when they were all bought to the attention of zenimax many months ago.I am sure most people would like to see known issues fixed b4 new content because new content just adds to the bug list and pushes any chance of the older issues being fixed further down the list.0
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jeevin✭✭✭✭✭I came back to the game after nearly two months off and am really disappointed with the lack of progress Zeni has made after six months. But I will keep playing on and off to support the franchise(Elder Scrolls nut)hoping they can improve. That said, there are a LOT of players who have left the game because of state it was/is in and I really doubt they will bother to return unless there is a drastic change.
The lack of real direction this game is going in(even after reading outtakes from the guild summit) is a worrying sign to me.3 -
Chubbaz✭✭✭
You may have just made a life changing personal breakthrough! Untold numbers have lead miserable lives always "striving for perfection". Instead, work on being happy! Your smile, and the smiles of those around you, will let you know you made the right decision!Instead of striving for perfection I guess we need to lower our expectations from now on.
I'll just need to make this adjustment after a lifetime of being told that I(we)must always strive to do the best we can. Obviously, this is the best I can expect from ZM for now.
Smiles don't pay the bills.0 -
Requiemslove✭✭✭As the title suggests with the current way of things I strongly believe this is the only way.
ESO is still a buggy beta and although it's been out for a little short of half a year it's hilarious that it is still in a poor state.
Why should we pay monthly for a game that's not even 100% done and polished on top of the initial price we had to pay with no additional rewards or a thank you from Zeni for sticking around through what has been a very chaotic and turbulent time? Final Fantasy XIV relaunched after the original was a colossal flop but their relaunch was actually successful and still has many people playing. I hope Zeni takes notes and does the same thing, call it a fresh start if you will but those who have stuck around should get like an additional title or something when it goes back up.
As we are paying customers I feel we should be getting a bit more for what we're paying for each month. I love this game as much as the next guy and I thank Zeni for all their hard work but a bit of downtime would fix alot of problems.
No one is pointing a gun at your head buddy. Paying a sub for a game you feel is at this moment in time irreversibly flawed, is something you choose to do. Creating a thread about your own personal view, looking for others of like mind in hopes that what, you will get 1000s of replies in the affirmative, and FORCE ZOS to close this puppy down? Why do you think as one person you have the right to feel you can talk for everyone? That, was rhetorical, as you don't. Its just you making you think you do. But you are wrong. If you don't like the game as it is, leave, stop paying a sub, and leave. OR, and this is going to be an if, but a BIG if. IF, you don't like the game as it is right now, but love the elder scrolls universe, love the franchise, love the feel, love the concept, the lore and the texture of the place. You could simply stop playing, yet keep paying. That's an option too. Or you could just go. If you go not many will miss you. No offence meant, only no doubt like with every big MMO with 100,000s of subscribers, 100s come and go every day. You going or staying will be less than a whisper.5 -
heyguyslol✭✭✭Zos has burned so many bridges with ppl that no matter what they do now they will have to survive off the few fanboi's who are willing to turn a blind eye for them. Most ppl learned from this experience and they will not to buy another game made by zos.Edited by heyguyslol on October 2, 2014 2:30PM@heyguyslol
__________________
Theodora West
V14 Sorcerer
Daggerfall
http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_19758 -
heyguyslol✭✭✭Lol the game is no where near as buggy as in beta. I haven't had the game crash on me in weeks. And pvp balance is tough for any mmo. Wow patches would almost always op one class while nerfing another. Then it would switch in the next patch.
I hated WoW. But its way better than this.
I hate Blizzard but at least they got end game right. You know this game is bad if u start thinking of going back to wow for real end game, lol.
@heyguyslol
__________________
Theodora West
V14 Sorcerer
Daggerfall
http://twitch.tv/heyguyslol_19755 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Greatfellow wrote: »
yeah, how about those of us who understand excellence, don't expect perfection, and easily tolerate a game that is usable but improving. Like me. I an effing procedure analyst, paid to find practical solutions in imperfect environments on a regular basis. That said, my complaints are that ZOS is screwing up stuff every time they introduce new content, and not fixing foundational issues that have been identified for a long time. My sub runs out in nine or ten days. I'll check back in on this game in a few months. My suggestions to ZOS have been: 1) issue new content individually or small groups, frequently. then if you break something with new content it will be easier to pinpoint the culprit. 2) issue fixes constantly, not as part of large content updates. Hotpatch the hell out of the game. As you get a fix, apply it. 3) If your delivery process isn't set up to deliver the way 1) and 2) require, then change that process to accommodate 1) and 2).
I'm in for the long haul too. But that doesn't mean I'll sit here while the ship is in dock for repairs, or take a cruise on it while it stinks of sewage. Nah, I'll just keep checking in, in a few months, and see if they've freaking fixed it better than they've been doing.
I agree with you 100%, you've made your case perfectly and I agree with your feedback to ZOS.
As hard as it is for some people here, even ZOS, to understand; many of us really like the game but they need to get their testing/QA stuff in gear, or listen to them when they tell them there is a problem.4 -
Pallmor✭✭✭✭✭
✭For all of you who are so dissatisfied, who do nothing on these boards but complain, I have to ask you a question, "Why are you still here?"
There's the door, right over there. No one is forcing you to pay or play. If you think there is a better MMO out there, go find it. If you think ZOS are such idiots, then go find a game designed by geniuses. ZOS owes you *NOTHING*. You owe ZOS *NOTHING*. Feel free to leave anytime.
I mean, do you just pay $15/month to come on these message boards and complain? Because if you really hate the game that much, and you have NOTHING good to say about it, then I'm pretty sure no one is going to miss you.10 -
Sindala✭✭✭✭✭For all of you who are so dissatisfied, who do nothing on these boards but complain, I have to ask you a question, "Why are you still here?"
There's the door, right over there. No one is forcing you to pay or play. If you think there is a better MMO out there, go find it. If you think ZOS are such idiots, then go find a game designed by geniuses. ZOS owes you *NOTHING*. You owe ZOS *NOTHING*. Feel free to leave anytime.
I mean, do you just pay $15/month to come on these message boards and complain? Because if you really hate the game that much, and you have NOTHING good to say about it, then I'm pretty sure no one is going to miss you.
That is the single most worst statement I've heard in a long time, one that will send chills down the backs of all Zeni employees also.
You may think you are trying to help but you would be wrong.
If just one person takes your 'advice' and quits then you have cost Zeni money and I can assure you that is the last thing Zeni want, people quitting.Being First is not the prize, it just mean's everyone can stab you in the back.11
