Tabbycat wrote: »

Game is fine.

Um no pvp needs serious work .. has been little done since release.. there have been fixes mainly due to issues created by the large updates... We still have game breaking lag in many aspects of pvp... We have crashes and roll backs... Only one pvp server that has solid constant pvp...the other servers are for pve'ers to enhance stats...This leads to crazy q times for the one pvp server and after one crash you could be back in a 40 minute q.. people will say just log on the low pop server .. well i play with friends if they are still in the main server i cant group ... if we cant play together i will just log
..

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Fact is, I'm just going to say it, players like you with "thank you so much ZOS" and "they're doing the best they can, aren't you champ" like they are some sort of plucky kid on the X Factor rather than what they really are, a company that KNOWS it can get away with pushing out junk with servers that can't take the load in PVP because we'll keep giving them cash, and then you pat them on the back... are the reason modern games have gotten into such a mess.

Bitter much? What are you complaining about, anyway? Look around you: there are piles of new games on Steam and elsewhere, where lots of people throw money at developers and their products in alpha state, i.e. software that's not even feature-complete, just to gain "early access". Seems there's already a viable market for this. You want to tell all those people they are stupid?

Btw, what you're complaining about is hardly a new phenomenon: ten years ago a game called Sacred was released, and it was so buggy that the devs at one point had put out beta patches to the general public in order to verify that specific issues had been fixed. You needed to reinstall the game from scratch every time the "official" patches were released afterwards, but guess what? People sucked up those beta patches anyway. Seems gamers as a whole haven't gotten any wiser in a decade, have they?

You want high quality, bug-free software? Get out of your comfy chair, go get a degree in CS, and start developing games yourself. Try to get a title out of the door without starving in-between. Then you can talk.

I see a wonderful pvp game that has game breaking performace issues...there is nothing else to play atm in pvp... We see such promise but are extreamily frustrated with the lack of support of the pvp side of the game...

Marthenil wrote: »

I do both PvP and PvE. Have not encountered any "Omg close the game and relaunch" issues AT ALL.
Some lag in Cyrodiil every once in a while, an infinite loading screen (admitedly more common after 1.4 but still just a nuisance than anything) and that's it.

I will even crash every now and then in Cyrodiil, but I still haven't played an MMO with large scale PvP that doesn't crash me from time to time. ESO is NOT any worse for me in that regard and I'm really looking forward to Imperial City where we can get more PvPvE action happening!

This game definitely is no where near "OMG close the game and relaunch issues AT ALL."

Redlag wrote: »

Dylipse wrote: »

Lol the game is no where near as buggy as in beta. I haven't had the game crash on me in weeks. And pvp balance is tough for any mmo. Wow patches would almost always op one class while nerfing another. Then it would switch in the next patch.

I hated WoW. But its way better than this.

No one's holding a gun to your head and telling to you to sit down and play, cupcake.

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

From what I hear, this game is no where near as bad as games who've had to utilize such a tactic in the past (only one I know of is FFXIV)

The major problem is spoiled gamers that think everything should be perfectly polished and prim and pretty so they can play with it on day 1 This ain't the perfect world we all wish it were..

snip

I stopped reading right there.

What's wrong with expecting the thing you paid for to work? If you buy a car and the wheels fall off the moment you drive it off the lot, do you just shrug your shoulders and say "well, no car is perfect on day 1; they'll fix it"?

Somehow the pollyannas have voted in sufficient numbers that paying for buggy software is somehow okay.

Nothing's wrong with expecting what you pay for to work, within reason.

I can play this game too: (I can compare things wildly unrelated as well! Observe the statement below!)

Say you pour money into a kickstarter for a prototype gadget that you believe in, do you abandon it when the phase 1 turns out to be awful? Do you pull your funding because it wasn't perfect right off the bat?

Apples and oranges. You can't compare an MMO to a car.

The automotive industry has had over 100 years of experience behind the products they release today.

When the gaming industry gets to that point, sure you bet your @ss I'll expect shiny and perfect at launch.

Until then, being reasonable and accepting of difficulties is hardly being a fanboy or unrealistic about what my buck deserves.

If you don't like the way the game is now and aren't happy enough to step back and say, "Sure some things are broke but overall I'm having a good time playing nonetheless.."

Come back in a few months and check on it.
Hell I did it. I left for about a month and a half after reaching Vet levels because I didn't feel I was being rewarded sufficiently for the amount of work I was doing while questing through those areas.

I didn't run to the forums and cry "ABANDON SHIP THIS GAME R SUCKS" on every thread I could. I didn't throw my toys on the ground and stomp and pout.

I put the game down for a while, attended to other hobbies, checked the forums to see what changes were being made and when the time felt right I came back.

My wife and I have found a guild of likeminded folk who enjoy the game and want to see it succeed and we're thoroughly enjoying all the changes they've made to the game since we played in Early Access.

All I'm saying is to step back, take a breath, and put yourself in the Dev's shoes.

Would your job be easy if there was a public forum on which people could tear apart your product every which way and shout to the heavens how much it sucked?

Edited for wider audience understanding*

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Say you pour money into a kickstarter for a prototype gadget that you believe in, do you abandon it when the phase 1 turns out to be awful? Do you pull your funding because it wasn't perfect right off the bat?

Apples and oranges. You can't compare an MMO to a car.

...but you can compare an MMO with a leading IP produced by a multi-million dollar company to a Kickstarter?

What ?? I will say that I have got bored of leveling my first character beyond 50 since I found I was using same core skills most of the time - so I started alts on other factions and with very different skillsets and I am having a lot of fun .

Pollyannas! Sheesh.

I stand by my statement. The software game industry is one of the few industries where it's now OK to pay money for a product that is bugged and does not work very well. And what's worse are the fanboys who have a tantrum if anyone suggests that it should be otherwise.

Ashtaris wrote: »

You have no idea what a buggy MMO is really like. One of the early MMO's I was involved with would regularly crash to the desktop. Having more than 40 avatars in the same area would often times crash the server. Of course, this was 10 years ago and a lot of advances have been made, but really, it seems like MMO's are always a work in progress. Actually I've been quite impressed with how well ESO runs most of the time. Can it be improved? Absolutely! It's just going to take some time. I don't think most people have any concept of how technically complex it is to put out ESO, and if you did, I'm sure you would be a bit more patient.

How do you know how complex it is? How do you know that my idea of how technically complex it is is any different than yours?

The more technically complex it is, the longer it will take for them to polish it to a level where they should be charging money for it. That's all that means.

I would love if they closed it temporarily and came back with the game reworked a bit, as well as the justice system implemented and the new areas and quest lines that were promised intertwined in the story, tons of things reworked, included and major issues fixed, but I recognize it to be most likely impossible. Especially since this game tanked so bad and had that string of layoffs. There's no way they're going to be allowed the funds, resources or time to do so, but I do think it would be amazing and could save this broken game.

Perhaps rework the main story's endgame setup a bit to prevent that horrible immersion breaking feeling it gives to be in other alliance zones, talked to like you're one of them, aiding their alliance, talked to like you landed in the water over there, like you don't have a soul so you're the only one who can do things that require a missing soul, ect. ect. the horrible list about endgame immersion goes on.

Another thing that they could do with a temporary shutdown is fix that feeling like this entire game is confused about it's orientation. Is it TES or is it an MMO? They could fix that! Make it so major cities and towns are public instances from once you enter the gates and parts of the worlds like quests and things (That were clearly intended to be taken on solo for a remote challenge and are no fun with groups!) could be solo instances!!! And if you WANTED other players to do it with you, you could FIND people to group up with and you could be in the same instance as them and do it with them. This would allow for difficulty adjustments and much more of the signature TES sandbox effect that this game lacks. You could even use an LFG tool that actually works in a case like that for the few people who actually enjoy random people running through your quest and killing your boss in 2 seconds (because they're a higher level), making you miss loot/challenge, and then outracing you to the nodes and resources!! But for normal people, we could fix that!! No more resenting nearby players and HATING these "insensitive selfish people" who see what you're trying to do and are too selfish or possibly too ignorant to care.

There are a ton of things they could do over and rework and make this game AWESOMEEEEEEE if they had the time to take the knowledge they've learned in this period, and stop trying to cram pieces of what we need to tide us over in these incremental patches over time while we lose our best players.

Yes, there are some players who have posted above who don't get why people are unhappy. They probably haven't thoroughly explored the game much yet beyond solo 1-50 questing, but to them I say: Just read the forums. For the most part, the community's best participants are venting and crying out in frustration to a company who doesn't seem to hear them and eventually leaving! Zenimax, at this current point, can't even prioritize (with the resources they have available still) well enough to focus on the primary goal of keeping our most vital subscribers; Customer satisfaction and subscription retention. Then from there, they could begin to work on growing the sub base and improving the game with fluff and cool additions. Right now it's just not possible because the game needs so much that Zenimax is forced to prioritize on what REALISTIC short term goals they can work towards, knowing that what needs to be done is too far our of reach and would have had to be done way back in it's development.

Things like craglorn and certain zones and things.... I can justify being added in later. But things like stealing, a justice system, major questlines, jewelry crafting, and tons of other things, I simply CAN NOT justify not being included in launch. DONT SELL ME A GAME THAT ISN'T FINISHED. I DON'T WANT A RAW HAMBURGER WHEN I GO TO MCDONALDS!!! When I started this game, I didn't say "Can you steal/pickpocket?" I said "How do you steal/pickpocket?"

It's all fine and dandy that they make fixes for some minor things in their updates and patches, but the biggest things they really need some reworking are simply unfixable in this manor. And the few things that are big that do get fixed take months and months and months to get done. It certainly would be nice if they could do this; Come back with a kickass game and hey.. maybe even a solid console release date... I've said before and I'll say again, I still feel like this IS beta, and the console release will be the real release.

I've thought about leaving the game so many times and possibly coming back later to see if they've gotten their s*** together, but I've always been afraid to leave for a while because I didn't want to leave my guild or miss anything or come back with less players or anything... I've just not wanted to leave so I try to justify staying when I'd have a better time replaying Skyrim. I try to hold myself over with the content I have yet to explore, hoping it will hold me over until the Justice System, which I'm hoping will make the game a lot more fun, but even if I'm still here when it comes out and I try to play through the areas with it implemented, it will just be so dull. A lot of this game's solo quests have little replayability and I wouldn't want to play through them again with the justice system.

--Guilds could stay together and reopen when the game comes back.
--They could rework the concept of leveled quests and difficulty and give players the ability to experience a challenge while playing solo. (if they used my solo/public re-work idea)
--They could rework a lot of the content and choices and actually give you some options to be a bad guy!! (besides just killing NPCs and guards in the justice system).
--They could rework the LFG tool and make it WORK! And start fresh so people use it!
Plus all the other things I've already mentioned...

The problem is that this game, as an MMO, relies heavily on it's player base, so it might not be possible because even though everything I've described would all be an amazing improvement for the game, it's not a good MMO without a lot of players in it. Personally, I think TES is still big enough that ESO could come back and be amazing - team that with positive reviews and press for the re-release and people who recognize that yes, they screwed up but they acknowledged it and fixed it, and then lastly, throw in the huge swarm of the long-awaited console release and I think we wouldn't have an issue. Still, I don't see it happening so this is more like a dream thread. But if it could feasibly be done, I believe it would be the best thing for the game. The rework it needs can't be done in patches.

And for those of you commenting on the refund thing, yes, I agree - there's no need to refund people. I would be happy knowing that a game with so much potential is finally being fixed and turned into something.

Bottom line: I'm not totally unhappy with the game and I certainly couldn't ask for a refund. Especially after playing it this long. I love TES in general, I just wish they did better and I see the obvious potential here and it's frustrating because some of the mistakes and oversights seem so obvious and common sense to me. I would be fine with them taking some time to rework it. I would respect the decision just as many fans have done with the postponed console date. I wish they'd stop treating us PC players like we're the pts testers and postpone ours until they're satisfied with the product as well!!

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Pollyannas! Sheesh.

I stand by my statement. The software game industry is one of the few industries where it's now OK to pay money for a product that is bugged and does not work very well. And what's worse are the fanboys who have a tantrum if anyone suggests that it should be otherwise.

It's always been that way. There are bugs in every bit of software ever coded. Well mine was pretty good ... mostly.

Anything more complex than a web page is bound to have several bugs. Whether or not they are a problem is another thing.

Well, yeah. It's a question of degree, not absolutes.

The issue is that some people feel that this is "beta" quality. And I say, and should have phrased it this way, that the software game industry is one of the few industries where it is now OK to pay money for a product that is beta quality. I see nothing wrong with expecting to receive a full refund for a software product that was sold as release-ready but turns out to in fact be beta quality.

How's that? Are the wordsmiths happy now with the phrasing?

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Laerania_ESO wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Game works fine and is great fun. Been here since Jan.

[...]

[...]

I think the point may be that they consider the game is still "beta" quality - not that people would lie about when they started playing (but I could be wrong).

My point was I have been here since the beta and find the game fun and just fine.

I wasn't commenting on your point. But to your point - I've been here since early access (though recently joined the forums), and I have and continue to enjoy playing. I also find it much better now than when it launched. I certainly do NOT want it shut down!

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

While I understand the rage from pvp'ers about performance/balance etc. issues in Cyrodiil I ask you kindly to take under your consideration that you are only part of community in this game, definitely loudest tho.
Other part me included is not bothered about those so horrible problems and just enjoying this great game in its pve aspects so please be so kind and stop producing these ridiculous threads.
Thank you in advance.