Six Month Report Card from a veteran MMO player - warning, long.

mutharex · September 2014

I have the feeling next month we will get the same rant and the same people saying they are quitting.

MikeBob · September 2014

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Actually, this was a very accurate & well worded review! Thanks.

Maybe - except for the part about starting to MMO with UO 20 years ago, as it's only been out for 17 years + just shy of one week.

Overstated claims that don't add up tend to send the claimant's credibility toilet-ward, in my opinion.

I skipped the remainder of the review for that reason.

TheSaphyroth · September 2014

Audigy wrote: »

This week marks the six month semi-anniversary of this game's live release (including early access). As a veteran MMO player of about 20 years (started MMO gaming back in the early days of Ultima Online), and a Sanguine Beta tester

That's not 20 years though but 17 ^^

Visuals, graphics, sound, immersion (environmental) - 10/10
- This is the only time I have ever rated a game I have played a full 10 in this category, simply because ZOS you nailed this one. The lush full graphics, shadings, rendering, voiceover work (complete with celebrity voice cast), the sheer quantity of locale and diversity thereof, makes this game by far the most beautiful and visually pleasing MMO I have ever played. Bar none.

The immersion could be improved to be honest. To be put into solo dungeons a lot isn't a good idea for a MMO. You need to see others, need to be able to play with them and not tell them to wait because you are not going into a solo adventure.

UI/Interface/Controls/Bank/Inventory - 5/10
- The UI is glitchy and has been plagued with bugs since Beta. The ALT key being the menu key has always irked me, otherwise the controls themselves are standard fare, nothing amazing, nothing terrible. The interface can be quite annoying and is overly simplistic (even with addons you never quite get a feel for your characters' "real" stats without getting out a calculator and doing a ton of self testing).

I disagree strongly. This isn't a Esports title or a shooter, it simply put doesn't matter to know all the details. Its bad enough that DPS meters are in the game. ESO is about immersion and this only works with a simple UI that doesn't influence your gameplay.
As soon you start picking a skill because of meters and statistics the immersion is dead like we can see at WOW.

-
Guilds/Grouping/Social/Marketplace - 6/10

There are no real channels for communication to meet people besides zone/say (which are usually littered with market chatter), the grouping tool for dungeons/trials is an utter joke that no one ever uses anymore (the blind adding probably has something to do with this).

I disagree. I use the tool a lot and don't have issues. You might be just impatient or use it wrong?
That said yes it can be improved but to say you can not find people or nobody uses it is a lie.

Player advancement/balance/respec/leveling - 4/10
- As said before, the veteran grind is the worst part about this game, bar none. You take the same thing you already did (level to 50), and do it all over again twice, then you add four more veteran levels within six months of launch and youve turned the game into nearly a korean grinder. It breaks immersion of the main story, slows progression to a crawl, and adds what feels like arbitrary time sinks to even the simplest thing (making your character more powerful/better gear). A casual player can level a character 1-50 in about a week-10 days. That same player will spend the next 2 months in the vet system.

If you truly want this game to be "play how you want" then any build should be useful (if not downright viable) in any form of content, it should never just be about max DPS or max HPS or max CC, etc.

I disagree strongly. If you cant get further in the game then this is a L2P issue and nothing else. My chars are all very different and I get through just fine.

Besides that is the VR system great as it finally adds char progression past max level that isn't a silly gear grind like at WOW.
To me it seems like you just picked the wrong game if you want to grind a single dungeon on max level for weeks or months.

Its also utterly funny that you complain of having something to do in this game. Do you know how WOW is these days? You have zero to do except running a raid every week, do you want ESO to be like that? A boring grinder?

Cmon, take a chill pill and accept that ESO has long levity and doesn't give you purples upon logging in.

Player vs Player (PvP) combat - Cyrodiil/General Performance/Stability - 2/10

We want an Arena for 4v4v4 or something similar, we want more than just blob vs blob crash to desktop every 20 minutes, if the server can even handle it. I bought this game for the PvP,

We want nothing here, you want! WOW btw is that way --> enjoy.

ESO was announced as an open world pvp game and not a simplistic Esports title like WOW. You picked the wrong game.
Arena doesn't work in any MMO I know, you can not balance a game to make it work. Everyone will just pick the best class and that's it as we can see at WOW.

Bugs/Bug reporting/Customer Service/Issue Resolution - 3/10
Waiting three weeks to fix a game crippling FPS bug that lost half of your PvP playerbase is the shining example of how inept your problem resolution department is. This is the kind of thing that should have been worked on 24/7, hotfixed every hour until it was solved, not waited on and sat on for "developmental cycle time." Seriously, we see the same offenders day after day after day after day, with the same reports sent, day after day after day, and they are still there. Why?

I think you need to play a bit less and relax. Honestly, I don't see those offenders or bugs that you speak of. The game runs just fine, the bots from the first days are no longer and the FPS has been improved a lot since 1.2. That said we still need quad support that's for sure.

The console port - 1/10
This gets its own category, you pushed it back six months, some people are still waiting in preorder, and there is still no date for its launch. No communication since you said it was delayed (the original launch date was supposed to be around the same month as live launch). I gotta be honest here Zenimax, people are pissed off about this, have been for a while. When it comes to taking our money you seem okay with that, but we arent as patient with these things as you might think. We paid for a service as yet unrendered, and it is becoming tedious. Even a little update would suffice.

An MMO on a console is just as pointless as a Point and Click. I also don't know how you paid for the console already if its not even released. You exaggerate once again and insult a company for doing nothing bad to you.

Developer/Player relations - 2/10
- Gina and Jessica are great gals, and they work pretty hard on the forums, but that is all we ever get. Beyond the occasional forum mod locking a thread or enforcing forum rules, we never get any direct developer communication, and the communication we do get is lacking in details (I know it isnt the community managers fault, they can only say what they are told they can say), but you guys need to get in here and interact and really get a feel of what is going on. YOU ARE LOSING YOUR PLAYERBASE ZOS.

I have a hard time believing you played many MMOs in your life. The communication at ESO is ten times better than at any MMO I played with the exception of Ultima.

At WOW you don't get anything for months, EA just totally shut down their community program, Arena net does what it wants to do ...

I feel well informed at all times by the mods here, we have dev discussions, articles about the future of the game ... Its all there.

Value of Service - 4/10
- This game has a cost of 60 USD for the software, and 15USD/mo for subscription. This game is, frankly, not worth half of that in its present state. There are free to play MMOs in better shape than this game, there are Pay to Play MMOs in MUCH better shape than this game.

Then why don't you play those so amazing games? Fact is, if such games would exist then you wouldn't be here.

For me ESO is the best MMO I played since Vanilla WOW and its ranked in total on a good third spot with Ultima on 1.

Total Rating - 46/100, one of the lowest ratings I have ever given, and the lowest I have ever given for a game I put real money into. You have potential Zenimax, your players want to love your game, we do, we WANT YOU TO SUCCEED, please hear these words, take them to heart, and wow us. Show us you mean it. Your subscriptions may very well depend on it.

I don't want them to WOW us, I hate what WOW has become to. You are simply put playing the wrong game.

All what you want those spy tools for DPS, armory ... WOW has. It also has Arena that you want and an AH - please just go back to WOW, ESO will hopefully never be like WOW is these days.

Besides that I give you a total rating of 15/100. Reason being are your insults, the silly "we want" talk and your lack of experience yet saying you had it.

If you want to give ZO some feedback then do so without insulting them, spreading lies or exaggeration.

Your understanding of this review is as in depth as your knowledge of World of Warcraft. "I want you to WOW us!" Does not mean "I want you to World of Warcraft us".

My second post!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Audigy · September 2014

jeevin wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

This week marks the six month semi-anniversary of this game's live release (including early access). As a veteran MMO player of about 20 years (started MMO gaming back in the early days of Ultima Online), and a Sanguine Beta tester

That's not 20 years though but 17 ^^

Visuals, graphics, sound, immersion (environmental) - 10/10
- This is the only time I have ever rated a game I have played a full 10 in this category, simply because ZOS you nailed this one. The lush full graphics, shadings, rendering, voiceover work (complete with celebrity voice cast), the sheer quantity of locale and diversity thereof, makes this game by far the most beautiful and visually pleasing MMO I have ever played. Bar none.

The immersion could be improved to be honest. To be put into solo dungeons a lot isn't a good idea for a MMO. You need to see others, need to be able to play with them and not tell them to wait because you are not going into a solo adventure.

UI/Interface/Controls/Bank/Inventory - 5/10
- The UI is glitchy and has been plagued with bugs since Beta. The ALT key being the menu key has always irked me, otherwise the controls themselves are standard fare, nothing amazing, nothing terrible. The interface can be quite annoying and is overly simplistic (even with addons you never quite get a feel for your characters' "real" stats without getting out a calculator and doing a ton of self testing).

I disagree strongly. This isn't a Esports title or a shooter, it simply put doesn't matter to know all the details. Its bad enough that DPS meters are in the game. ESO is about immersion and this only works with a simple UI that doesn't influence your gameplay.
As soon you start picking a skill because of meters and statistics the immersion is dead like we can see at WOW.

-
Guilds/Grouping/Social/Marketplace - 6/10

There are no real channels for communication to meet people besides zone/say (which are usually littered with market chatter), the grouping tool for dungeons/trials is an utter joke that no one ever uses anymore (the blind adding probably has something to do with this).

I disagree. I use the tool a lot and don't have issues. You might be just impatient or use it wrong?
That said yes it can be improved but to say you can not find people or nobody uses it is a lie.

Player advancement/balance/respec/leveling - 4/10
- As said before, the veteran grind is the worst part about this game, bar none. You take the same thing you already did (level to 50), and do it all over again twice, then you add four more veteran levels within six months of launch and youve turned the game into nearly a korean grinder. It breaks immersion of the main story, slows progression to a crawl, and adds what feels like arbitrary time sinks to even the simplest thing (making your character more powerful/better gear). A casual player can level a character 1-50 in about a week-10 days. That same player will spend the next 2 months in the vet system.

If you truly want this game to be "play how you want" then any build should be useful (if not downright viable) in any form of content, it should never just be about max DPS or max HPS or max CC, etc.

I disagree strongly. If you cant get further in the game then this is a L2P issue and nothing else. My chars are all very different and I get through just fine.

Besides that is the VR system great as it finally adds char progression past max level that isn't a silly gear grind like at WOW.
To me it seems like you just picked the wrong game if you want to grind a single dungeon on max level for weeks or months.

Its also utterly funny that you complain of having something to do in this game. Do you know how WOW is these days? You have zero to do except running a raid every week, do you want ESO to be like that? A boring grinder?

Cmon, take a chill pill and accept that ESO has long levity and doesn't give you purples upon logging in.

Player vs Player (PvP) combat - Cyrodiil/General Performance/Stability - 2/10

We want an Arena for 4v4v4 or something similar, we want more than just blob vs blob crash to desktop every 20 minutes, if the server can even handle it. I bought this game for the PvP,

We want nothing here, you want! WOW btw is that way --> enjoy.

ESO was announced as an open world pvp game and not a simplistic Esports title like WOW. You picked the wrong game.
Arena doesn't work in any MMO I know, you can not balance a game to make it work. Everyone will just pick the best class and that's it as we can see at WOW.

Bugs/Bug reporting/Customer Service/Issue Resolution - 3/10
Waiting three weeks to fix a game crippling FPS bug that lost half of your PvP playerbase is the shining example of how inept your problem resolution department is. This is the kind of thing that should have been worked on 24/7, hotfixed every hour until it was solved, not waited on and sat on for "developmental cycle time." Seriously, we see the same offenders day after day after day after day, with the same reports sent, day after day after day, and they are still there. Why?

I think you need to play a bit less and relax. Honestly, I don't see those offenders or bugs that you speak of. The game runs just fine, the bots from the first days are no longer and the FPS has been improved a lot since 1.2. That said we still need quad support that's for sure.

The console port - 1/10
This gets its own category, you pushed it back six months, some people are still waiting in preorder, and there is still no date for its launch. No communication since you said it was delayed (the original launch date was supposed to be around the same month as live launch). I gotta be honest here Zenimax, people are pissed off about this, have been for a while. When it comes to taking our money you seem okay with that, but we arent as patient with these things as you might think. We paid for a service as yet unrendered, and it is becoming tedious. Even a little update would suffice.

An MMO on a console is just as pointless as a Point and Click. I also don't know how you paid for the console already if its not even released. You exaggerate once again and insult a company for doing nothing bad to you.

Developer/Player relations - 2/10
- Gina and Jessica are great gals, and they work pretty hard on the forums, but that is all we ever get. Beyond the occasional forum mod locking a thread or enforcing forum rules, we never get any direct developer communication, and the communication we do get is lacking in details (I know it isnt the community managers fault, they can only say what they are told they can say), but you guys need to get in here and interact and really get a feel of what is going on. YOU ARE LOSING YOUR PLAYERBASE ZOS.

I have a hard time believing you played many MMOs in your life. The communication at ESO is ten times better than at any MMO I played with the exception of Ultima.

At WOW you don't get anything for months, EA just totally shut down their community program, Arena net does what it wants to do ...

I feel well informed at all times by the mods here, we have dev discussions, articles about the future of the game ... Its all there.

Value of Service - 4/10
- This game has a cost of 60 USD for the software, and 15USD/mo for subscription. This game is, frankly, not worth half of that in its present state. There are free to play MMOs in better shape than this game, there are Pay to Play MMOs in MUCH better shape than this game.

Then why don't you play those so amazing games? Fact is, if such games would exist then you wouldn't be here.

For me ESO is the best MMO I played since Vanilla WOW and its ranked in total on a good third spot with Ultima on 1.

Total Rating - 46/100, one of the lowest ratings I have ever given, and the lowest I have ever given for a game I put real money into. You have potential Zenimax, your players want to love your game, we do, we WANT YOU TO SUCCEED, please hear these words, take them to heart, and wow us. Show us you mean it. Your subscriptions may very well depend on it.

I don't want them to WOW us, I hate what WOW has become to. You are simply put playing the wrong game.

All what you want those spy tools for DPS, armory ... WOW has. It also has Arena that you want and an AH - please just go back to WOW, ESO will hopefully never be like WOW is these days.

Besides that I give you a total rating of 15/100. Reason being are your insults, the silly "we want" talk and your lack of experience yet saying you had it.

If you want to give ZO some feedback then do so without insulting them, spreading lies or exaggeration.

I don't really think OP wants ESO to be another WOW clone as you seem to suggest. Most if not all criticisms raised were valid and came with a genuine reason. Everyone will score their gripes and frustrations with the game differently but most will at least acknowledge the issues are there and are open to criticism. That does not mean we want another WOW clone, just a more polished play experience and better communication from the devs.

How can he be constructive if he uses flames all the time? I am sorry but I see being constructive feedback in a different context.

He wants Arena pvp which is a wow feature, he wants full loaded UIs which is as well ...

I don't believe that he is a real UO player, I am sorry and don't want to be rude which I might have been a bit but if someone's flames so much he just can not expect a better answer to his thread, sorry!

@‌ saphyroth

Your insults wont help you and just get you banned. Learn some manners if you want to be a part of this forum.

If you would read my posts more often you would see how often I criticize ZO for what they do and I am as far from being a Fanboy as you are from being a nice guy.

Zolron · September 2014

My take as a 15 year mmo vet ( started with Asherons Call in 99). I'm gonna leave pvp alone since its something i haven't really tried yet ( i'm in no rush to pvp as it is something i tend to do later so i can afford to wait till they fix it apparently)

Rylana wrote: »

Visuals, graphics, sound, immersion (environmental) - 10/10
My score: 8.5/10...the visuals are excellent for sure, but seem to be plagued by minor visual discrepancies here and there..such as NB's siphoning display lingering after weapon swap

Story, textual content, questing, and things to do - 9/10
My Score: 8.5/10...Story is great first time through but the Veteran rank grind and the fact that the story-line is the EXACT same whether your a veteran or a pre-vet..at least change it up slightly. Plus there isnt really any viable alternatives to the Vet grind to level ( as far as I know)..

UI/Interface/Controls/Bank/Inventory - 5/10
My Score: 6/10..yes it needs some work but with addons its more then bearable but i can live with the state of it at this point ( 6 month )

Guilds/Grouping/Social/Marketplace - 6/10
My score: 6/10 not much to add here from OP

Player advancement/balance/respec/leveling - 4/10
My score: 6.5/10...I actually enjoy the character advancement and the skills in this game. Respecing is a pain but at least its gotten cheaper and IS a possibility ...to lower the score for the clumsiness of this feature isnt appropriate in my opinion.

Bugs/Bug reporting/Customer Service/Issue Resolution - 3/10
My Score: 5.5/10..very annoying bugs are present for sure..disappearing quest NPC's making me relog to fix it gets tiring. As for customer service...comon, the CS here is the same as any other game ive played really, so no biggie in my book...

The console port - 1/10
My score: ...really? why is this part of your game review???

Developer/Player relations - 2/10
My Score: 6/10..I dont really want to include this in my review ( score) but recent blunders ( cycle of life error ) and patch notes ommision has changed my mind

Value of Service - 4/10
My score: 8/10..still enjoy the game and for less then the price of one night out I can enjoy it for 30 days...how is that not VALUE !

Total Rating - 46/100,
My Total:55/80 = 68/100....with much potential...

.

Rylana · September 2014

MikeBob wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Actually, this was a very accurate & well worded review! Thanks.

Maybe - except for the part about starting to MMO with UO 20 years ago, as it's only been out for 17 years + just shy of one week.

Overstated claims that don't add up tend to send the claimant's credibility toilet-ward, in my opinion.

I skipped the remainder of the review for that reason.

Street cred time: Mining ore to smelt for ingots to increase blacksmithing which increased strength. Uh oh, looks like you are wrong.

But moreso than that is that my MMO career followed more or less that of Raph Koster before the SWG NGE fiasco. Look that one up, you might learn something.

Also, never played world of warcraft, wrong again. =D My "arena" suggestions actually come from Star Wars Galaxies and Star Trek Online (in fact they are flat out called Arenas in STO)

Drakoleon · September 2014

Dont know about "fanboys" or "nice guys" or posters in zeni's payroll
I just feel though that some posters spend more time in forums than in game
What i know for sure is that this game shouldn't even been released Too many bugs, misbalances etc etc for "shelf product"
They sell a "defect" product and unfortunatelly we pay for their "experiments"
I really feel like guinea pig after every change (nerfs buffs) and problems coming after every other patch
I quess thats they reason why they postponed the console release
My "constractive" remarks are posted couple of pages before and i have never played WoW So...i dont compare or suggest enything comparing to other games Am just trying to point out problems i faced and maybe offer some solutions for things i dont like in game

I dont feel like insulting anyone with my remarks. In contrary i feel that zeni doesn't respect my(our) money. First because after 6 months still playing a beta game and at the very end really insults my inteligence when my "loyalty" will be repaid with a PET!

Soliquid · September 2014

I do agree with the author and i feel the same. I really put hope in this game and I don't wanna give up because it has such a potential and all I wish is Zeni paying attention to what people said.