ZoS, definitive answer please: are Troll Camps illegal?

Rune_Relic · September 2014

What if camps can only be placed on a grid that ZOS defines along with the radius.
Could a grid design control this by limiting where a camp can be placed ?
Do away with the place where you want ability.

GRxKnight · September 2014

imgur.com/x5w3UnW

So this is what happened last night on TB NA and we know the person who is doing it too.

To put in context with this picture...this location is between Roe and Brindle such that you cannot place a new camp at Roe while this one was up. Roe at the time was red's last keep that they needed in order to get emperor. They failed, but this was just irritating to deal with.

(Also this person has acknowledged in zone chat multiple times that he is doing it intentionally. Just waiting for the days that his account(s) are perma banned.

Sacadon · September 2014

Re: ad fail... Yup that specific individual did it twice yesterday while I was on... so your example is the third time for sure.

Last night on TB, I was the last to exit a properly placed fc then immediately went to replace it only to get the msg of one already placed too close, open the map and this player had placed one far from the keep and between our two resources... The player had to be standing there waiting for the yellow circle to appear because of how quick it was placed after I was the last one to use the properly located one. The location of the player was very far from any travel lanes and near the water and there's no fish spawning node there either.

Wyietsayon · September 2014

What if there was a type of camp designed for few or single people, essentially only cyrodiil pve players? Like it would only res maybe 5 times max. If it was slightly less expensive than normal camps, then it'd appeal to solo players more than the huge camps. It'd have to have a smaller radius compared to the normal camps, or maybe not even affect the placement of normal camps altogether. Not sure about other players burning it or not.

Also, maybe this type of camp can't be near keeps. This might all need some finesing, but the basic idea could work.

It wouldn't stop large troll camps, but it'd at least eliminate pve players as the cause.

Columba · September 2014

GRxKnight wrote: »

imgur.com/x5w3UnW

So this is what happened last night on TB NA and we know the person who is doing it too.

To put in context with this picture...this location is between Roe and Brindle such that you cannot place a new camp at Roe while this one was up. Roe at the time was red's last keep that they needed in order to get emperor. They failed, but this was just irritating to deal with.

(Also this person has acknowledged in zone chat multiple times that he is doing it intentionally. Just waiting for the days that his account(s) are perma banned.

Can you please send me a pm of the name so that I can take some action in game? Thanks.

Sablemane · September 2014

I suggested this before in a sep thread - if ZOS believes FC's are bringing any tactical value to PVP and decide to keep them in game, then design it such that a group of players (say maybe five players) must channel some arbitrary resource in order to place it. This would mitigate troll camps and require some coordination either way. If these camps are simply for convenience to cater to players that prefer a combat pace in the vein of COD then I vote for removal of the camps. Death should have a steep penalty.

Bouvin · September 2014

Players should never be punished for unforeseen use of legitimate game mechanics. Exploiting bugs is one thing...but using non-exploit tactics, whether you feel they are in the "spirit" of the game or not, should not be considered against the TOA.

Best course, as mentioned, is to fix the core issue.

dcincali · September 2014

Bouvin wrote: »

Players should never be punished for unforeseen use of legitimate game mechanics. Exploiting bugs is one thing...but using non-exploit tactics, whether you feel they are in the "spirit" of the game or not, should not be considered against the TOA.

Best course, as mentioned, is to fix the core issue.

Legitimate game mechanics are one thing but remember....

You agree not to use any Service to:
Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service.

Rune_Relic · September 2014

dcincali wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Players should never be punished for unforeseen use of legitimate game mechanics. Exploiting bugs is one thing...but using non-exploit tactics, whether you feel they are in the "spirit" of the game or not, should not be considered against the TOA.

Best course, as mentioned, is to fix the core issue.

Legitimate game mechanics are one thing but remember....

You agree not to use any Service to:
Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service.

Disrupting the flow of gameplay to one person...
is sabotage to others and valid tactical warfare.
It is war after all.

The question is ...is such sabotage deemed acceptable or not ?
Which then becomes opinion rather than exploitation.

So should the question not be...
Is sabotage an acceptable tactit of ESO warfare ?
Because the whol point of sabotage is to make life difficult for the enemy...or griefing.

eol · September 2014

I cant believe that people in this thread don't see how these troll camps are being blatantly abused to prevent an alliance from placing a useful camp. Those screenshots speak for themselves, and its hard to believe intelligent people would try to rationalize that away. In NA Thornwood, one player in particular is blatantly doing this to spoil the alliance's entire war effort, he places tent after tent after tent as far away from the keep as possible yet still within the 'tent circle', preventing us from putting up a much more useful tent.

Also, I like the suggestion of only being able to rez at the closest tent, to prevent 'across the map teleports' and the use of 'suicide resources'. Just like pouring burning oil at your own feet, it goes against the entire spirit of the game design.

Dleatherus · September 2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Players should never be punished for unforeseen use of legitimate game mechanics. Exploiting bugs is one thing...but using non-exploit tactics, whether you feel they are in the "spirit" of the game or not, should not be considered against the TOA.

Best course, as mentioned, is to fix the core issue.

Legitimate game mechanics are one thing but remember....

You agree not to use any Service to:
Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service.

Disrupting the flow of gameplay to one person...
is sabotage to others and valid tactical warfare.
It is war after all.

The question is ...is such sabotage deemed acceptable or not ?
Which then becomes opinion rather than exploitation.

So should the question not be...
Is sabotage an acceptable tactit of ESO warfare ?
Because the whol point of sabotage is to make life difficult for the enemy...or griefing.

personally, i find it, in ESO unacceptable, and here is my reasoning:

ESO isn't a sandbox where griefing such as this is normal and acceptable, because there are consequences to the griefing actions in a sandbox game if you get caught, such as being killed right away, and every time you show your face those being griefed will KoS

This is a brilliant and fun part of sandbox games that adds spice and excitement to the action

in ESO however there are no possible repercussions, and given that one griefer's actions with troll camps can in essence lose an entire alliance the throne if the camps are placed in the right locations at the right times when enemy alliances are making a push for the throne, it has no place in ESO

ESO is very very fun, but carebear PvP where griefing like this outside of intended game mechanics ruins the intended strategies and tactics

Sadly, ZOS seems to be evasive, secretive, and wishy washy on many 'controversial' issues that require communication, decisions and action

there are gray areas like this only because they lack the fortitude/corporate policy to define what is black and what is white

could be they are worried about offending one side or the other of each of these gray areas and losing subs

ironically it costs them more in the long run is my own opinion

I love the game, amazed at its potential, but toss in the cyrodiil lag, crashes etc it's ceasing to be fun, and the ONLY reason I personally play a game is to have fun

I am still holding out some optimistic hope for my trip to ZOS tomorrow, and that there is some genuine interest on ZOS's part in working together with the PvP community regarding prioritizing what needs to be focused on to have Cyrodiil realize its full potential - the best mmo PvP game out there

by Friday I shall know whether I am staying (my hope) or heading back to a sandbox PvP game

D.

Rune_Relic · September 2014

Dleatherus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

dcincali wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Players should never be punished for unforeseen use of legitimate game mechanics. Exploiting bugs is one thing...but using non-exploit tactics, whether you feel they are in the "spirit" of the game or not, should not be considered against the TOA.

Best course, as mentioned, is to fix the core issue.

Legitimate game mechanics are one thing but remember....

You agree not to use any Service to:
Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service.

Disrupting the flow of gameplay to one person...
is sabotage to others and valid tactical warfare.
It is war after all.

The question is ...is such sabotage deemed acceptable or not ?
Which then becomes opinion rather than exploitation.

So should the question not be...
Is sabotage an acceptable tactit of ESO warfare ?
Because the whol point of sabotage is to make life difficult for the enemy...or griefing.

personally, i find it, in ESO unacceptable, and here is my reasoning:

ESO isn't a sandbox where griefing such as this is normal and acceptable, because there are consequences to the griefing actions in a sandbox game if you get caught, such as being killed right away, and every time you show your face those being griefed will KoS

This is a brilliant and fun part of sandbox games that adds spice and excitement to the action

in ESO however there are no possible repercussions, and given that one griefer's actions with troll camps can in essence lose an entire alliance the throne if the camps are placed in the right locations at the right times when enemy alliances are making a push for the throne, it has no place in ESO

ESO is very very fun, but carebear PvP where griefing like this outside of intended game mechanics ruins the intended strategies and tactics

Sadly, ZOS seems to be evasive, secretive, and wishy washy on many 'controversial' issues that require communication, decisions and action

there are gray areas like this only because they lack the fortitude/corporate policy to define what is black and what is white

could be they are worried about offending one side or the other of each of these gray areas and losing subs

ironically it costs them more in the long run is my own opinion

I love the game, amazed at its potential, but toss in the cyrodiil lag, crashes etc it's ceasing to be fun, and the ONLY reason I personally play a game is to have fun

I am still holding out some optimistic hope for my trip to ZOS tomorrow, and that there is some genuine interest on ZOS's part in working together with the PvP community regarding prioritizing what needs to be focused on to have Cyrodiil realize its full potential - the best mmo PvP game out there

by Friday I shall know whether I am staying (my hope) or heading back to a sandbox PvP game

D.

I thought about what you said on black and white vs grey areas and It made me think.
The DC quest where you have a choice between orcs in the faction or destroying a super weapon. Releasing zombies on all of Glenumbra or saving the guys father.
None of it is black and white.....just multiple shades of grey.

This troll camp is the same thing depending on whose side of the war you are on. Super weapon or sabotage both give you an I win button. The game mechanics also allows the situation to exist in the 1st place. I admire the creator of the troll camp for the tactical genius....but its a loophole that has to be closed as it is an I WIN button. The problem is ....you remove this loophole...some genius will find another loophole to exploit. Be it shield stacking, weapon stacking ...or gear wars.

A lot of people want equality.....far far more want superiority....at any cost!

I think part of the problem is ZOS is genuinely naïve to ALL the possible implications for the systems they introduce. They do need a think tank of experienced and competent players to brainstorm such ideas before release/adoption.

Then we can blame you as well as zos....lol

Jaxx · February 2015

*edit Post Deleted