ZoS, definitive answer please: are Troll Camps illegal?

riverdragon72

names on the camps would be the best, then the perp is caught red handed. I still think only players in the radius of the camp should be allowed to respawn with it.

driosketch

frozywozy wrote: »

It doesn't change the fact that if we put names on placed camps, make them vr12+ only and we see repeatedly the same character dropping bad camps over and over again, it may be a good sign that this person is not new and ignorant but just trying to get easy pvdooring going for his faction.

Dleatherus wrote: »

although i'm not usually a fan of restricting certain actions to the upper levels, what @frozywozy proposes here makes sense if they don't have a fix already in works that could be rolled out soon

there are enough players VR12+ that would be more than happy to spend the AP and be responsible for placing the camps

putting the name on them, would also help prevent this problem

but them putting names on camps probably contradicts their own naming and shaming policy of trolls and they would have to ban themselves

D.

This would only hurt the non vet campaign, as well as legit low level characters who are are learning or experimenting with new builds. There are also players with multiple characters at VR12, it's not that hard to do for the motivated. And don't assume there's always a VR12 around to put the camp up. I've had to do so for a group while sub level 20.

Vizier wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This sort of behavior is not something we like to see. It's against the spirit of the game, and hurts the health of ESO's PVP. We also understand that a handful of bad eggs will always try to ruin the fun for all. That's up to us to solve. As Brian mentioned, we are exploring development-drive solutions and will share what we have in mind as soon as possible.

Suggestions:
1: 50% reduction is camp sphere of influence (radius- those placed in wilderness by adventurers, noobs or gank squads, will have less impact on sieges.)
2: Can only use camp to rez if one actually died within the sphere of influence. (virtually ends Blood Porting.)
3: Allow one camp to be placed per person and/or their name attached to the camps for specific reporting.
4: Consider allowing more camps in a sphere of influence but restrict use to the group that placed it. (I suggest a new unique camp for this aside from standard FC's)

Implementation of any one of these factors would improve PvP. All together would greatly enhance the PvP experience and and necessitate a need for better strategy and coordination from factions to take and hold keeps.

See this list? These are much better suggestions. You don't need to burn the forest down to get rid of some weeds.



P.S.
Also, don't know if I've said this before, but knowing the names only helps if reporting people in PvP actually got them banned, which I have yet to see happen. People complain about the naming and shaming policy out of frustration, but take it away and you allow open season on trolls smearing all of your reputations on the forums, while meanwhile those exploiting would still face no justice. Because they don't ban for PvP exploits.

Dleatherus

DaisyK wrote: »

Is this even possible?? can't even put them up next to eachother that close imo...

totally possible - 1 person can drop a camp at far west side of map, and then run in an arc to the far east side, this maximizes for 6 camps, each one dropped as soon as you get out of the radius of the one you just dropped, hence so many overlapping circles

D.

Morticielle

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

It's against the spirit of the game, and hurts the health of ESO's PVP.

Speaking of ESO PvP's health is like talking about the 'health' of an Intensiv Care Unit patient with septic shock, ARDS, ***, acute renal failure and beginning MOF. PvP in ESO has so many problems: Balancing issues (DK), bugged abilities, massive ability lags, many postern doors still not working, campaings totally out of balance, forward camps being abused and so on and so on.

And what is Zenimax doing? Ignoring most of those problems for months now, because stupid 'content' like guild tabards are more important. Not talking to customers unless they protest very loudly and flood the forum with threads. And if Zenimax actually adresses those issues they use the same old phrases like 'we are currently discussing different options ...', but they don't seem to find a definite solution to the problems. Or they declare a problem as 'solved' in their patch notes, which actually isn't solved at all like the problem with the postern doors.

Over the last three months I witnessed the list of problems concerning PvP getting longer and longer without a single one being solved!

P.S.: You find a great posting about what is wrong in this game by another player here

Edit: The *** in the above text was an automated edit by the forum software, which did read the acronym D I C (without spaces) for d i c k. Great work there too, Zenimax!

Grim13

Just watched a lvl 10 character place a troll camp for his DC Guild masters... then when called out on it... he mocked us in zone chat saying that he's read the TOS and what he's doing is perfectly legal. Nyah nyah!

Here's the weird thing: I can't tell you who he is because that is against the TOS.

roflmao

*** it, my sub runs out in a couple hours: it's Adfailure.

report him.

Grim13

***HINT FOR ZOS***

He's level 10... which means he's not earning enough of his own AP to be able to afford all of the camps he's placing... meaning: DC players are mailing him forward camps to place.

Classy stuff.

Monsoon

Camps can not per say be illegal since there is no law against them. What you want to ask is: Are troll camps against the TOS and what are troll camps?

If you buy a FC using your AP why shouldn t you be able to use it anyway you want? What about troll siege?

The problem are the mechanics that ZOS put around the FCs NOT the troll FCs themselves. If you had no limits there would be no troll camps. The mechanics of the FCs themselves are also wrong:
- Can t burn a camp while in caltrops or aoe, constantly being stopped by damage, this should not happen
- Can t put a camp because there is one close...that also should not happen
- Camps are limited in numbers...that also is wrong

Camps defy logic and have unatural mechanics within the logic of the world they are in. Why do they require a flat surface exactly? Why are they limited to 20 and not 15 or 25. How are they repaired exactly and why do they need to? Since there are no mages around the camp to create a portal how are people spawning there? What counts the number of players that spawn? What are the reagents that limit the number of spawns?

Camps are just a gimmick. Get rid pof camps and find another more logic method of respawning players

serenenightmare

Grim13 wrote: »

***HINT FOR ZOS***

He's level 10... which means he's not earning enough of his own AP to be able to afford all of the camps he's placing... meaning: DC players are mailing him forward camps to place.

Classy stuff.

Lol you know it was a DC player, eh?

Grim13

serenenightmare wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

***HINT FOR ZOS***

He's level 10... which means he's not earning enough of his own AP to be able to afford all of the camps he's placing... meaning: DC players are mailing him forward camps to place.

Classy stuff.

Lol you know it was a DC player, eh?

Considering the fact that the person mentioned only places them in areas DC are defending or attacking... Yes.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Malveria wrote: »

This was during an emp push.

Can we quit mincing details and arguing possibilities? Troll camping is happening and it's costing us keeps.

Those look like defense camps but if you say you were on the offensive then not so much you still have the ability to place 5 more so this should not be an issue really. I do not think that camps placed with malicious intent are right but how do we prove it?

Dleatherus

serenenightmare wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

***HINT FOR ZOS***

He's level 10... which means he's not earning enough of his own AP to be able to afford all of the camps he's placing... meaning: DC players are mailing him forward camps to place.

Classy stuff.

Lol you know it was a DC player, eh?

the odds of an EP player placing troll camps to favor DC's attacks/defences rather than EP's attacks/defences are there, but a long shot

also of note is that the overwhelming majority of the troll camps placed to AD's disadvantage are to DC's huge advantage, period

if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably not a platypus

doesn't change my opinion that DC have the best organized faction on Thornblade out of any of the three (and I play AD)

jerks exist in every faction, in AD we have our fair share also - such is the nature of an AvAvA mmo

the issue is ZOS not addressing this in a timely manner - yank the fugging things out of the game if you aren't able to fix them yet, just like you did with mercenaries, and only bring them back if and when you have them fixed

D.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Deleted

Jaxsun

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

ZoS,
can we please just get a definitive reply to this simple question:
"Are Troll Camps illegal?"

Definitions:
"Troll Camp": any Forward Camp placed on the map with the intent (<-- important word) to disrupt or harm the alliances ability to attack or defend keeps.
"Illegal": against the EULA/TOS/Code of Conduct of TESO.

Thanks.

p.s. For reference, the Terms of Service: https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/terms-of-service

You agree not to use any Service to:
(snip)

• Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service, (snip)

I'm not saying they aren't a problem and I'm not saying its ok and I don't place them but how do you know the intent of the person that places a camp. They may be a total noob and have no idea that it's a bad location for any number of reasons. Also, sabotage is part of warfare. It only takes one group to spawn at the "troll camp" to make it disappear....Furthermore there are many more issues that need to be fixed in cyrodiil alone. If they fix everything else first, then by all means, "fix" this.

frozywozy

driosketch wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

It doesn't change the fact that if we put names on placed camps, make them vr12+ only and we see repeatedly the same character dropping bad camps over and over again, it may be a good sign that this person is not new and ignorant but just trying to get easy pvdooring going for his faction.

This would only hurt the non vet campaign, as well as legit low level characters who are are learning or experimenting with new builds. There are also players with multiple characters at VR12, it's not that hard to do for the motivated. And don't assume there's always a VR12 around to put the camp up. I've had to do so for a group while sub level 20.

Forward camps should be used only by experienced players who know what they are doing because dropping a camp influence alot the course of the campaign. So putting a level requirement on forward camps would not only give people time to learn how to use them but also counter any attempt from other factions to drop "troll camps" unless they level a character up to vr12.

driosketch

Dleatherus wrote: »

the issue is ZOS not addressing this in a timely manner - yank the fugging things out of the game if you aren't able to fix them yet, just like you did with mercenaries, and only bring them back if and when you have them fixed

D.

As you recall, they didn't remove mercenaries, they removed the mercenary merchant. If you had any left, you can still place them. Just the other day someone placed a few in the Non-Vet Campaign of all places.

driosketch

frozywozy wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

It doesn't change the fact that if we put names on placed camps, make them vr12+ only and we see repeatedly the same character dropping bad camps over and over again, it may be a good sign that this person is not new and ignorant but just trying to get easy pvdooring going for his faction.

This would only hurt the non vet campaign, as well as legit low level characters who are are learning or experimenting with new builds. There are also players with multiple characters at VR12, it's not that hard to do for the motivated. And don't assume there's always a VR12 around to put the camp up. I've had to do so for a group while sub level 20.

Forward camps should be used only by experienced players who know what they are doing because dropping a camp influence alot the course of the campaign. So putting a level requirement on forward camps would not only give people time to learn how to use them but also counter any attempt from other factions to drop "troll camps" unless they level a character up to vr12.

Experience is not tied to level. And what do you think would prevent them from leveling a second character to V12 if they wanted? If you're going to be insistent, alliance rank would really be a better place to put the limit.

MiyaTheUnbroken

All this stuff about the possibility that troll camps could be unintentional is invalid considering he mocks us in zone chat and openly admits his intention is to hinder our success. There is no need for proof when he's confessing.

DaisyK

frozywozy wrote: »

Forward camps should be used only by experienced players who know what they are doing because dropping a camp influence alot the course of the campaign. So putting a level requirement on forward camps would not only give people time to learn how to use them but also counter any attempt from other factions to drop "troll camps" unless they level a character up to vr12.

You're assuming there are no vr12+ trolls.. this would change nothing

Morticielle

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just watched a lvl 10 character place a troll camp for his DC Guild masters... then when called out on it... he mocked us in zone chat saying that he's read the TOS and what he's doing is perfectly legal. Nyah nyah!

Here's the weird thing: I can't tell you who he is because that is against the TOS.

Yup, that is the sadest part. Zenimax cares more about their dumb forum rules then about banning cheaters and antisocial persons.

spoqster

Zheg wrote: »

Are there that many players that would actually be upset if forward camps were removed entirely? It seems like the simplest, quickest, and best solution. Now that we all have fully upgraded fast horses, how about we actually use tactics again and try to cut off enemy transit lines and have it mean something?

Sorry, but the keeps are just too far apart. The constant riding annoyed the crap out of me in the beginning and if we have to do that again I'll stop playing PVP again.

frozywozy

DaisyK wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Forward camps should be used only by experienced players who know what they are doing because dropping a camp influence alot the course of the campaign. So putting a level requirement on forward camps would not only give people time to learn how to use them but also counter any attempt from other factions to drop "troll camps" unless they level a character up to vr12.

You're assuming there are no vr12+ trolls.. this would change nothing

Your logic makes no sense. I just said that the player would have to level to vr12 to drop a troll camp and you answered "You are asumming there are no vr12+ trolls."

I don't know what to say.

Dleatherus

driosketch wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

the issue is ZOS not addressing this in a timely manner - yank the fugging things out of the game if you aren't able to fix them yet, just like you did with mercenaries, and only bring them back if and when you have them fixed

D.

As you recall, they didn't remove mercenaries, they removed the mercenary merchant. If you had any left, you can still place them. Just the other day someone placed a few in the Non-Vet Campaign of all places.

ah you're right - now that you mention it i have a couple of AD merc skirmishers still on one of my banking alt toons - might be time to dig em out

D.

Davadin

c0rp wrote: »

Remove camps from the game. Issue solved. Helps reduce zerg ball gameplay at same time, and makes transit important again. A win/win.

Yiisss.........

DaisyK

frozywozy wrote: »

Your logic makes no sense. I just said that the player would have to level to vr12 to drop a troll camp and you answered "You are asumming there are no vr12+ trolls."

frozywozy wrote: »

Forward camps should be used only by experienced players who know what they are doing because dropping a camp influence alot the course of the campaign. So putting a level requirement on forward camps would not only give people time to learn how to use them but also counter any attempt from other factions to drop "troll camps" unless they level a character up to vr12.

what i mean is having to become a vr12 in order to drop a troll camp wouldn't stop anyone.. there's vr12 trolls now, i don't see how the proposition of having experienced players being able to use camps would solve anything.. i dunno, maybe i'm understanding you wrong it's possible, i am sick and really tired

Braidas

DaisyK wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Your logic makes no sense. I just said that the player would have to level to vr12 to drop a troll camp and you answered "You are asumming there are no vr12+ trolls."

frozywozy wrote: »

Forward camps should be used only by experienced players who know what they are doing because dropping a camp influence alot the course of the campaign. So putting a level requirement on forward camps would not only give people time to learn how to use them but also counter any attempt from other factions to drop "troll camps" unless they level a character up to vr12.

what i mean is having to become a vr12 in order to drop a troll camp wouldn't stop anyone.. there's vr12 trolls now, i don't see how the proposition of having experienced players being able to use camps would solve anything.. i dunno, maybe i'm understanding you wrong it's possible, i am sick and really tired

im not sure how he didnt understand you lol. anyway, you're right there're v12's who've switched factions that might be inclined to drop troll camps, but it would definitely be mitigated

Agrippa_Invisus

Last night on Thornblade NA, there was a string of EP troll camps that suddenly started stretching from BB through AD territory.

ghengis_dhan

LonePirate wrote: »

When you die to PVE, you can use a soul gem to rez...

Not if you're killed by an enemy player in the PvE area.

Umeil

Why are camps still in the game whilst a fix is being worked on ?

Remove them exactly the same as you did with the stupid ass idea of player bought mercs that were being abused and removed.

Either fix or remove ASAP

frozywozy

DaisyK wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Your logic makes no sense. I just said that the player would have to level to vr12 to drop a troll camp and you answered "You are asumming there are no vr12+ trolls."

frozywozy wrote: »

Forward camps should be used only by experienced players who know what they are doing because dropping a camp influence alot the course of the campaign. So putting a level requirement on forward camps would not only give people time to learn how to use them but also counter any attempt from other factions to drop "troll camps" unless they level a character up to vr12.

what i mean is having to become a vr12 in order to drop a troll camp wouldn't stop anyone.. there's vr12 trolls now, i don't see how the proposition of having experienced players being able to use camps would solve anything.. i dunno, maybe i'm understanding you wrong it's possible, i am sick and really tired

When I say that it would totally "counter any attempt from other factions to drop "troll camps" unless they level a character up to vr12.", for me this is pretty straight forward. If a character does level to vr12, and intend to drop a troll camp, there is nothing we can do about that, but at least it reduces significantly the chances to see this happening.

Let me explain it to you with some nice visual effectz :

Scenario #1 ==> No level limit to drop camps

- Anyone who play the game for 15mins can earn enough AP to drop a troll camp and influence drastically the course of the campaign.

Scenario #2 ==> Must be vr12+ to drop camps

- You must dedicate yourself up to vr12 to be able to drop any camp even if you have enough AP to buy them before. Discourage alot of lazy people.

Scenario #3 ==> Must be vr12 to drop camps and your name will also be attached in a tooltip when you mouse over the camp itself on the world map.

- You must level up to vr12 to be able to drop camps and if you still intend to drop a troll camp, you risk to get reported directly by any player with common sense. Discourage anyone who care about their ingame reputation and not getting banned.

Much sense, very detailed

Luvsfuzzybunnies

MiyaTheUnbroken wrote: »

All this stuff about the possibility that troll camps could be unintentional is invalid considering he mocks us in zone chat and openly admits his intention is to hinder our success. There is no need for proof when he's confessing.

Ah but is it not the nature of a troll to lie to you? He could be only ad for as much as you know saying he is DC to get you all riled up. Which seems to be working btw. I will give you the advice I get when a sorc denies me the opportunity to kill him by using bolt escape. The troll camp did not kill you. You have lost nothing by them putting a troll camp there just wave goodbye at the camp and move on to another area.

Edit: so if you can accept the logic that allows bolt escape spammers to contend the ability is fine you can accept the line of thinking as well(ie both things are fine).