Braidas wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Aoe_Barbecue wrote: »

There is a formal difference between "strategic" 1vX (I think you mean tactical) and strategic group play.

Strategic sense has no bounds whether you're talking about 1vX or group play. When in group play the ability of the individual to execute his own strategy is impaired by the group leader which is the nature of adopting a leader. You're limited to an extent by the skills of your leader, and this limitation is expanded the larger your group is. The members of the group become very good at executing their particular set of skills or tactics for that group but they miss much outside of that. They don't need to self heal, they don't need to manage resources the same way, the ebb and flow of the battle isn't as important in their decision making.

I did the first 25 levels of PvP almost purely in group play and learned much. After going solo for the next 6 levels afterwards I realized there was much I was missing in group play that I never had to deal with.

Now when I try group play, I'm bored. You turn into another cog in the wheel, min/maxed and specialized for a particular group function. You become very effective at that function but the mind is rarely being stressed in the way it is in 1vX play. The amount of information you must evaluate and consider is considerably less and you have only yourself to rely on. This gives you the ability to refine and hone your sense of strategy.

Just my personal observation there.

perhaps when you're in a huge zerging group, but we often make groups of 3-8 that take down scores of pugs and guilds alike. everything you do counts just as much (you can't rely on someone else to keep you up), and finding what synergizes well with your group and staying with each other to accomplish a goal, is much harder imo than just killing trying to kill as many people as you can solo. the game is meant for group play and as a result the sum does not equal the addition of its parts, its far greater. seems you played in some *** groups bud, b/c the leader shouldn't be impairing you. a good leader is conscious of the group's thinking and takes suggestions.

and at the end of the day, the game is open world pvp in which 1 player affects just about nothing. you can be "the best dueler in cyrodiil" and get run over by a group in an instant, so i dont know why people gaf

Mykah wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

This is why block needs to be changed to 180* instead of 360*, so that player movement is more important than gear/build/rotation.

All I see here is Lash Lash Lash, scales gdb, invasion, standard, lash lash lash.

Its just ability spam while holding block. He doesn't avoid damage with movement or facing or dodge rolling because he doesn't have to. Holding block, spamming pots, and dropping scales/gdb is all he has to do to stay alive.

If block only worked 180* one good stamina build would destroy this playstyle because really, its a pretty basic playstyle, its easy to read.

I'm not saying Sypher is a bad player, but I can't really tell how good he is twitch reflex wise because this entire video is him holding block slowly walking around winning fights with his gear and class, not with his reflex or movement. I'm not saying he doesn't have reflex or movement, I just don't see it here in this playstyle because its not required for success.

This video really speaks volumes about the mechanical imbalances in ESO. Coming from Age of Conan, an amazing melee combat system, to this, this "one of the best pvpers" videos, its depressing.

Maybe I should just reroll Templar, gear out in light armor with magicka cost reduction enchants, and walk around holding block and spamming shields. Right now banging my head against the wall with a 2hand NB, and losing fights to players I know are terrible but are using cheese builds, its just not good pvp.

If Block was 180 degree's you'd pretty much kill every Melee User in the game and it would become nothing more then a range fest unless you were zerg balling it up.

Also as an NB, you complaining about Block is rather hilarious......since your class is the absolute best class in the game for dealing with block users.

I really disagree. If block was 180* it would help skilled melee players immensly.

A person attacking you at range cannot easily run behind you without first closing the distance between you. In this case 180* blocking is effective against a ranged attacker. However, a person attacking their target in melee range can easily step behind their target, making 180* blocking less effective against a melee attacker.

Class has nothing to do with it. I've been pvping for 16 years of my life, so essentially since Sypher was in kindergarten. I've pvped in so many games with so many classes I don't really see games with class bias any longer, I see them with mechanical awareness based on years and years of experience. ESOs block mechanics are essentially a glass ceiling for player skill, and its really too bad because the engine has great potential.

I pvp in this game because my friends play it, if it were not for them I'd probably just play Chivalry or WotR because in those games skill is more important than gear or class.

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

This is why block needs to be changed to 180* instead of 360*, so that player movement is more important than gear/build/rotation.

All I see here is Lash Lash Lash, scales gdb, invasion, standard, lash lash lash.

Its just ability spam while holding block. He doesn't avoid damage with movement or facing or dodge rolling because he doesn't have to. Holding block, spamming pots, and dropping scales/gdb is all he has to do to stay alive.

If block only worked 180* one good stamina build would destroy this playstyle because really, its a pretty basic playstyle, its easy to read.

I'm not saying Sypher is a bad player, but I can't really tell how good he is twitch reflex wise because this entire video is him holding block slowly walking around winning fights with his gear and class, not with his reflex or movement. I'm not saying he doesn't have reflex or movement, I just don't see it here in this playstyle because its not required for success.

This video really speaks volumes about the mechanical imbalances in ESO. Coming from Age of Conan, an amazing melee combat system, to this, this "one of the best pvpers" videos, its depressing.

Maybe I should just reroll Templar, gear out in light armor with magicka cost reduction enchants, and walk around holding block and spamming shields. Right now banging my head against the wall with a 2hand NB, and losing fights to players I know are terrible but are using cheese builds, its just not good pvp.

If Block was 180 degree's you'd pretty much kill every Melee User in the game and it would become nothing more then a range fest unless you were zerg balling it up.

Also as an NB, you complaining about Block is rather hilarious......since your class is the absolute best class in the game for dealing with block users.

I really disagree. If block was 180* it would help skilled melee players immensly.

A person attacking you at range cannot easily run behind you without first closing the distance between you. In this case 180* blocking is effective against a ranged attacker. However, a person attacking their target in melee range can easily step behind their target, making 180* blocking less effective against a melee attacker.

Class has nothing to do with it. I've been pvping for 16 years of my life, so essentially since Sypher was in kindergarten. I've pvped in so many games with so many classes I don't really see games with class bias any longer, I see them with mechanical awareness based on years and years of experience. ESOs block mechanics are essentially a glass ceiling for player skill, and its really too bad because the engine has great potential.

I pvp in this game because my friends play it, if it were not for them I'd probably just play Chivalry or WotR because in those games skill is more important than gear or class.

Let's put aside the whole idea of skillful blocking for a second and just address two issues that come with 180 degree blocking.

1. Players with mediocre to bad latency will get royally screwed over because they have delays/latency issues which cause their characters to be just slightly misplaced on their screen compared to where their character is actually located.

2. Since there is no player collision. When two people fight up close. They will just be running through each other and try pulling off "no look 360 quick scope pew pew"

These two things alone make the negatives out whey the positives when it comes to 180 degree blocking.

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

This is why block needs to be changed to 180* instead of 360*, so that player movement is more important than gear/build/rotation.

All I see here is Lash Lash Lash, scales gdb, invasion, standard, lash lash lash.

Its just ability spam while holding block. He doesn't avoid damage with movement or facing or dodge rolling because he doesn't have to. Holding block, spamming pots, and dropping scales/gdb is all he has to do to stay alive.

If block only worked 180* one good stamina build would destroy this playstyle because really, its a pretty basic playstyle, its easy to read.

I'm not saying Sypher is a bad player, but I can't really tell how good he is twitch reflex wise because this entire video is him holding block slowly walking around winning fights with his gear and class, not with his reflex or movement. I'm not saying he doesn't have reflex or movement, I just don't see it here in this playstyle because its not required for success.

This video really speaks volumes about the mechanical imbalances in ESO. Coming from Age of Conan, an amazing melee combat system, to this, this "one of the best pvpers" videos, its depressing.

Maybe I should just reroll Templar, gear out in light armor with magicka cost reduction enchants, and walk around holding block and spamming shields. Right now banging my head against the wall with a 2hand NB, and losing fights to players I know are terrible but are using cheese builds, its just not good pvp.

If Block was 180 degree's you'd pretty much kill every Melee User in the game and it would become nothing more then a range fest unless you were zerg balling it up.

Also as an NB, you complaining about Block is rather hilarious......since your class is the absolute best class in the game for dealing with block users.

I really disagree. If block was 180* it would help skilled melee players immensly.

A person attacking you at range cannot easily run behind you without first closing the distance between you. In this case 180* blocking is effective against a ranged attacker. However, a person attacking their target in melee range can easily step behind their target, making 180* blocking less effective against a melee attacker.

Class has nothing to do with it. I've been pvping for 16 years of my life, so essentially since Sypher was in kindergarten. I've pvped in so many games with so many classes I don't really see games with class bias any longer, I see them with mechanical awareness based on years and years of experience. ESOs block mechanics are essentially a glass ceiling for player skill, and its really too bad because the engine has great potential.

I pvp in this game because my friends play it, if it were not for them I'd probably just play Chivalry or WotR because in those games skill is more important than gear or class.

Let's put aside the whole idea of skillful blocking for a second and just address two issues that come with 180 degree blocking.

1. Players with mediocre to bad latency will get royally screwed over because they have delays/latency issues which cause their characters to be just slightly misplaced on their screen compared to where their character is actually located.

2. Since there is no player collision. When two people fight up close. They will just be running through each other and try pulling off "no look 360 quick scope pew pew"

These two things alone make the negatives out whey the positives when it comes to 180 degree blocking.

Lag exists already and you don't hear massive qq about the targeting system not hitting people. Yes player collision needs to be added but would not help with the already present server lag.

Edit: I do not agree that running thru and turning to get a back hit off would outweigh the current system either considering if you see someone going to move thru you and cant be bothered to dodge roll or side step that is just an example of the poor play being magnified by the issue we are discussing. Which also become reinforced by allowing it.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

people who don't think you'll have people running through you to pull off block attacks clearly haven't played DAOC.

Though that game had /stick..which made it even easier (walk through them, back up, they automatically turn, backstyle them)

But that's besides the point..If ya don't think it would hurt melee, you clearly haven't charged into a fight before...Cause you'd charge in, and one archer would instantly kill you from behind because this game has no form of mitigation other then blocking that's worth anything.