PVP Discussion with Brian Wheeler During Friday's ESO Live Twitch Stream

SeltzerDuke · September 2014

While legit concerns are being raised about how oil pots currently help to even the odds against larger numbers, I certainly won't miss the AP farming oil traps or that one guy in every siege who takes advantage of the puglings by setting up a pot in a cubbyhole shielded from LOS, heh. I suspect that's what's causing some of the panic about a potential change.

And since I'm always that guy who reminisces about early pvp, I remember when everybody just assumed oil needed to be poured from above or at a distance and so you almost never encountered them outside of inner keeps/outposts or the Alessia Bridge/Chalman Milegate. I recall being confused when suddenly everybody was spamming them for PBAoE and even setting them up in open field combat, lollerz.

Rylana · September 2014

That was completely unprofessional and a virtual slap at all of us who sat through the first hour of the presentation waiting for the PvP Q+A segment.

Brian neither took nor answered a single question from the community, instead spoke on pre-selected topics/news, and left as soon as he possibly could, and I for one find that very disturbing.

darkdruidssb14_ESO · September 2014

Yep, he basically just went over what was discussed in a thread already... way to go.... that was a waste of everyone's time. Literally didn't expand on anything else that hasn't been covered before.

Agrippa_Invisus · September 2014

I don't have audio here at work. What did he say?

darkdruidssb14_ESO · September 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The team is working hard on Imperial City and making sure it's as enjoyable as a PVP and PVE zone. In the meantime, we do keep an eye on Cyrodiil and the issues with the Alliance war as a whole and make adjustments as soon as we can get them in there. Recently the postern doors and server roll-back/save issues were resolved and now the team has a few other things we're adding that I can finally mention

Oil Pots will be getting a deadzone added to them so the oil has to travel atleast 6 meters before arming. This should help with the PBAE use of Oil pots. I can't promise exactly when this is going in as we need more testing on it, but that's the initial update for Oil pots.

As far as the AE cap damage is concerned, the Combat team has been looking at options for handling it and will post something when they are comfortable with doing so.

Forward Camps are going to get an Alliance Rank requirement to purchase added to them for helping limit the amount of self alliance "trolling". Short of increasing the price to a very high amount, we've read many other suggestions on the boards here and are taking this as a first step.

A teleport border around Cyrodiil play-space is being put into the game to also help with putting forward camps in "out of bounds" areas.

We continue to monitor population in both the EU and the US for Campaigns and will adjust them as necessary.

This is literally what he said on the live stream... which is posted on the forums here already.

Agrippa_Invisus · September 2014

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The team is working hard on Imperial City and making sure it's as enjoyable as a PVP and PVE zone. In the meantime, we do keep an eye on Cyrodiil and the issues with the Alliance war as a whole and make adjustments as soon as we can get them in there. Recently the postern doors and server roll-back/save issues were resolved and now the team has a few other things we're adding that I can finally mention

Oil Pots will be getting a deadzone added to them so the oil has to travel atleast 6 meters before arming. This should help with the PBAE use of Oil pots. I can't promise exactly when this is going in as we need more testing on it, but that's the initial update for Oil pots.

As far as the AE cap damage is concerned, the Combat team has been looking at options for handling it and will post something when they are comfortable with doing so.

Forward Camps are going to get an Alliance Rank requirement to purchase added to them for helping limit the amount of self alliance "trolling". Short of increasing the price to a very high amount, we've read many other suggestions on the boards here and are taking this as a first step.

A teleport border around Cyrodiil play-space is being put into the game to also help with putting forward camps in "out of bounds" areas.

We continue to monitor population in both the EU and the US for Campaigns and will adjust them as necessary.

This is literally what he said on the live stream... which is posted on the forums here already.

phreatophile · September 2014

Rylana wrote: »

That was completely unprofessional and a virtual slap at all of us who sat through the first hour of the presentation waiting for the PvP Q+A segment.

Brian neither took nor answered a single question from the community, instead spoke on pre-selected topics/news, and left as soon as he possibly could, and I for one find that very disturbing.

Bad move on their part. Either come out and face the music or don't come out at all.
Though, I wouldn't want to answer for the cluster#@$& that is PVP in Cyrodil right now either.

Gilvoth · September 2014

just finished watching the whole segment and i loved it

great work as allways and ty

ThyIronFist · September 2014

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

just finished watching the whole segment and i loved it
great work as allways and ty

How much did they pay you?

Gilvoth · September 2014

best part was loremaster as allways i love that guy, hes awesome.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · September 2014

WRX wrote: »

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

So,

Draxys wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Without it, meatball catas and oils would be more feared

They wouldn't just be feared, there wouldn't be anything stopping those things from wiping a group. Everything needs a counter.

...if AoE cap's the answer, what's going to counter a single DK snaring and flaming 20+ people in a choke point?

Zergballs?

I smell a bit of catch 22 here...

This is why they have AoE caps. AoE caps were brought about when 3 people with bats could wipe everyone. They were not killable. The AoE cap is actually fine. Perhaps increase it a bit (7-8), but don't just get rid of it.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Without it, meatball catas and oils would be more feared

They wouldn't just be feared, there wouldn't be anything stopping those things from wiping a group. Everything needs a counter.

Except not getting hit by it by paying attention to your surroundings. If anything the duration of thr healing debuff can be made to match the 3 tic dot you get, and/or not as big of a healing debuff possibly brought to the level of disease enchant debuff or similar. Be better than having ig made irellevant.

Meatbags are the furthest thing from irrelevant and are the 2nd strongest siege. Snare + decent damage + HUGE healing debuff. Meat catas are fine.

Meat catas dont snare, and I think you missed why I suggested they should possibly be nerfed.

Soris · September 2014

Rylana wrote: »

That was completely unprofessional and a virtual slap at all of us who sat through the first hour of the presentation waiting for the PvP Q+A segment.

Brian neither took nor answered a single question from the community, instead spoke on pre-selected topics/news, and left as soon as he possibly could, and I for one find that very disturbing.

This stream was complete disappointment for me and I have zero faith to ZOS from now on.

There was no new words about the biggest issues which are AoE caps, zerg balling and lags due to it. Just exactly the same words as they said months ago, "our combat team has been working on it." but no update.

It's disgusting that whole pvp segment ended in only 5 mins and then lets go some pew pew ez mode pve and more hoodie givaways

DDuke · September 2014

WRX wrote: »

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

So,

Draxys wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Without it, meatball catas and oils would be more feared

They wouldn't just be feared, there wouldn't be anything stopping those things from wiping a group. Everything needs a counter.

...if AoE cap's the answer, what's going to counter a single DK snaring and flaming 20+ people in a choke point?

Zergballs?

I smell a bit of catch 22 here...

This is why they have AoE caps. AoE caps were brought about when 3 people with bats could wipe everyone. They were not killable. The AoE cap is actually fine. Perhaps increase it a bit (7-8), but don't just get rid of it.

This would only encourage even bigger zergballs to form.

If 3 people batswarming were capable of wiping everyone, doesn't that speak more about the ultimate itself & people stacking too much?

Couple of easy fixes:

Make batswarm not generate any ultimate by itself
Increase the cost of batswarm
Make the Devouring Swarm heal only for 6 targets hit.
Do not stack and provide free kills for people utilizing AoE

I think the last one is the easiest & most efficient way of fixing it.

Leovolao · September 2014

DDuke wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

So,

Draxys wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Without it, meatball catas and oils would be more feared

They wouldn't just be feared, there wouldn't be anything stopping those things from wiping a group. Everything needs a counter.

...if AoE cap's the answer, what's going to counter a single DK snaring and flaming 20+ people in a choke point?

Zergballs?

I smell a bit of catch 22 here...

This is why they have AoE caps. AoE caps were brought about when 3 people with bats could wipe everyone. They were not killable. The AoE cap is actually fine. Perhaps increase it a bit (7-8), but don't just get rid of it.

This would only encourage even bigger zergballs to form.

If 3 people batswarming were capable of wiping everyone, doesn't that speak more about the ultimate itself & people stacking too much?

Couple of easy fixes:
Make batswarm not generate any ultimate by itself

Increase the cost of batswarm

Make the Devouring Swarm heal only for 6 targets hit.

Do not stack and provide free kills for people utilizing AoE

I think the last one is the easiest & most efficient way of fixing it.

Good luck taking a keep from a couple vamps with no caps.

Kewljag_66_ESO · September 2014

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Absolutely pathetic that was. Back to WoW it is, this game will be over. At least the PvP will... such a pity.

Lol why would anyone go back to WoW? The majority of us are just holding on with this as something to do until Camelot Unchained comes out

Illumous · September 2014

faernaa wrote: »

There was no new words about the biggest issues which are AoE caps, zerg balling and lags due to it. Just exactly the same words as they said months ago, "our combat team has been working on it." but no update.

Makes me wonder if this "Combat Team" has actually been doing something let alone even exists. We keep getting the same answer every month, "The combat team has been discussing it." What is there to discuss at this point! Just fix the AoE caps, put a cap on Ultimate gains from up to 6 targets being hit, and be done with it already. I can not even count how many of my friends have left the game or are considering leaving over this and the stamina imbalances. Luckily the latter seems to be getting (some) attention now, but the former and the mass AoE Trains are still the hot topic of my guild every single day on TeamSpeak (and of course the constant crashes and lag), and not a single hint of a fix is in sight.

ZOS Combat Team, get your act together and address the issues directly influencing PvP or you will continue to see increasing droves of subscriptions being lost.

Xsorus · September 2014

The fact that the suggestions they came up with so far don't fix the two biggest problems right now Zerg Balling and Forward Camps, and in some cases makes it bloody worse (Oil Change) speaks volumes...

Sotha_Sil · September 2014

I want to say thanks to Brian Wheeler for taking the time to speak to us. We didn't learn anything new but it is the effort that counts.

But I wonder how hard it could have been just to talk about the Imperial City creation progress or just show a new video about it at least to let us hope of something great.Seeing the quakecon videos made us all eager to see what was going to happen but 2 months later, we don't know anything else.

I actually don't have the courage to wait any longer and the feeling is well shared. My whole guild is leaving the game for another MMO.

Lava_Croft · September 2014

No offense to the community folks, but that was one hell of a worthless performance by Brian Wheeler.

Lava_Croft · September 2014

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Absolutely pathetic that was. Back to WoW it is, this game will be over. At least the PvP will... such a pity.

Lol why would anyone go back to WoW? The majority of us are just holding on with this as something to do until Camelot Unchained comes out

Speak for yourself with your 'majority'. I'm fairly certain the majority doesn't care at all for that poor excuse of a DAoC clone.

Monsoon · September 2014

As I predicted...for a pvp discussion this was probably as worst as not having a stream at all

I predicted:
What will be talked about: Color of keeps, size of scrolls, UI of the map, size and sounds of Sieges, placement of trees on the map, weather effects

What will NOT be addressed: Lag, Zerg balls spamming AOEs lagging the server, imbalances in populations, sieges disapearing during lag, AP not being properly distributed, crashes, spam aoes, AOE caps, invulenarbility exploits, shield exploits, players taking zero damages, invisible batswarms, camp trolling, 80% reduction in number of mail rewards since last patch, full week of constant crashes NOT warranting time refunds and people who somehow are able to survive two oil pots and a full stealthed bow to the face

What was talked about:
- we are making it harder to by camps for lowbies because **** you we don t have any other ideas to fix camps trolling

- We are nerfing oils used to combat zerg balls because **** you we don t have any other ideas to stop zerg balls and we like zergs balls and since most of us play on AD what 's your problem? You don t like sorcs spamming fire+swarm+streak+impulse+.... Do you know that being a pvp dev after having suffered at Blizzard as a Mage dev is hard...do you know the amount of tears I have shed as a mage in pvp? So now I control sorcs and they are fine...no need to do anything about sorcs vamp zerg balls...they are balanced

Lag? You mean the NPC named Lag? Yeah he hides in Coldharbor...we like him. You have a problem with Lag? Maybe you shouldn t click those dialogs too fast when he talks to you...next question?

Vesir · September 2014

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Absolutely pathetic that was. Back to WoW it is, this game will be over. At least the PvP will... such a pity.

Lol why would anyone go back to WoW? The majority of us are just holding on with this as something to do until Camelot Unchained comes out

Speak for yourself with your 'majority'. I'm fairly certain the majority doesn't care at all for that poor excuse of a DAoC clone.

i would like to agree with the person you quoted. and poor excuse of a daoc clone? you obviously have no idea what they've even said about their game.

at this point, even if it is a "poor excuse of a daoc clone" it'll still be better than where this game is headed

Ifthir_ESO · September 2014

Lava_Croft wrote: »

No offense to the community folks, but that was one hell of a worthless performance by Brian Wheeler.

I want to believe this is due to Corporate not letting him talk. However, that doesn't make it OK.

LonePirate · September 2014

I would have preferred no "discussion" whatsoever as the conversation that transpired was simply insulting to everyone who engages in PVP.

c0rp · September 2014

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Oil pot mechanics the PVP team covers and can be commented on in the Alliance War section of the forums or in this thread if you want.

Who is in charge of perm cc, zerg balls, blobbing, and the inability to stop or break them up which leads to 15 fps ?

Teargrants · September 2014

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

...if AoE cap's the answer, what's going to counter a single DK snaring and flaming 20+ people in a choke point?

Zergballs?

I smell a bit of catch 22 here...

I hear there's this magical skill called Retreating Maneuvers that grants immunity to snares and roots...

Lava_Croft · September 2014

Vesir wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Absolutely pathetic that was. Back to WoW it is, this game will be over. At least the PvP will... such a pity.

Lol why would anyone go back to WoW? The majority of us are just holding on with this as something to do until Camelot Unchained comes out

Speak for yourself with your 'majority'. I'm fairly certain the majority doesn't care at all for that poor excuse of a DAoC clone.

i would like to agree with the person you quoted. and poor excuse of a daoc clone? you obviously have no idea what they've even said about their game.

at this point, even if it is a "poor excuse of a daoc clone" it'll still be better than where this game is headed

You mean comparing the promises of CU with the reality of ESO?

Vesir · September 2014

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Vesir wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Absolutely pathetic that was. Back to WoW it is, this game will be over. At least the PvP will... such a pity.

Lol why would anyone go back to WoW? The majority of us are just holding on with this as something to do until Camelot Unchained comes out

Speak for yourself with your 'majority'. I'm fairly certain the majority doesn't care at all for that poor excuse of a DAoC clone.

i would like to agree with the person you quoted. and poor excuse of a daoc clone? you obviously have no idea what they've even said about their game.

at this point, even if it is a "poor excuse of a daoc clone" it'll still be better than where this game is headed

You mean comparing the promises of CU with the reality of ESO?

actually, if you read what i wrote, i said "where this game is headed"

so it's really promises v promises. i just like CU's promises better

100% focus on PvP (RvR) (especially with computer performance) no aoe caps, more than 6 abilities usable at a time (weapon swap still doesn't make it 12 cause the other 6 become unusable when you swap)

and i think i'll enjoy a game that doesn't keep adding ridiculous bugs to the game everytime they patch something completely unrelated to what got bugged

Cody · September 2014

WHAT????? ACTUAL COMMUNICATION????

im watching this immediately. Brian, PLEASE talk about important stuff..... por favor!!!!

Cody · September 2014

ah. it was a live chat... guess I missed it.