Fixing Bat Swarm.
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Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fix lag and zerg blobs first and then we'll see if swarm isnthe root problem.
My instinct is that swarm is a very nice ability but with the lag/blob problem out of the picture it will prove to be as beatable as other ultimates. Although I suspect we'll see vamps complaining of a secret nerf as they will score fewer kills and AP.0 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would be ok with more nerfs like this for vampires if they also nerfed downsides of being one. How about, nerf swarm but also cut fire damage penalty by half?
Yes. Because the "weaknesses" are meaningless anyway and removing the weakness would prove that. I suppose against PVE Fire Spammers, you will probably die a lot more. But in PVP the only "danger" is Fire Siege and guess what? That will kill a non-vamp in the exact same amount of time it takes to kill a vamp anyway. I want the vamp weakness to be meaningful.
They have the most OP Ultimate ever designed, and they have no real weakness.
Within; Without.2 -
Govalon✭✭✭✭
I guess you only play small part of the game, which is pvp. I play all the content and while being vampire lets me get huge amount of ap from stupid people who stand in aoe, I pay a huge penalty for it in pve. Vampire has no use in pve and being vampire ruins the pve experience for me and my group. That reason alone should make Vampire really good in pvp or there would be no reason for anyone to be vampire.I would be ok with more nerfs like this for vampires if they also nerfed downsides of being one. How about, nerf swarm but also cut fire damage penalty by half?
Yes. Because the "weaknesses" are meaningless anyway and removing the weakness would prove that. I suppose against PVE Fire Spammers, you will probably die a lot more. But in PVP the only "danger" is Fire Siege and guess what? That will kill a non-vamp in the exact same amount of time it takes to kill a vamp anyway. I want the vamp weakness to be meaningful.
They have the most OP Ultimate ever designed, and they have no real weakness.0 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
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I guess you only play small part of the game, which is pvp. I play all the content and while being vampire lets me get huge amount of ap from stupid people who stand in aoe, I pay a huge penalty for it in pve. Vampire has no use in pve and being vampire ruins the pve experience for me and my group. That reason alone should make Vampire really good in pvp or there would be no reason for anyone to be vampire.I would be ok with more nerfs like this for vampires if they also nerfed downsides of being one. How about, nerf swarm but also cut fire damage penalty by half?
Yes. Because the "weaknesses" are meaningless anyway and removing the weakness would prove that. I suppose against PVE Fire Spammers, you will probably die a lot more. But in PVP the only "danger" is Fire Siege and guess what? That will kill a non-vamp in the exact same amount of time it takes to kill a vamp anyway. I want the vamp weakness to be meaningful.
They have the most OP Ultimate ever designed, and they have no real weakness.
Your guess is wrong.
Vampire has a lot of use in PVE. It isn't OP in PVE to the point that one vamp can wreck the whole dungeon while everyone else struggles to keep up.
Vampires have no use in PVE? Spoken like someone who hasn't PVE'd much. Come back when you are higher than level 20.
Within; Without.0 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭lol Everyone missed CPT's sarcasm.
Become a vampire and look at the damage done. Then look at the damage done by other class Ultimates. You will see something very interesting; Bat swarm's damage is really nothing great. Soul Strike puts out a TON more damage, and most other AoEs do around the same damage, if not, more.
What makes bat swarm such a PITA, is that it can be sometimes hard to see and notice that someone cast it and, it's mobile. Then you get 2+ people using it and you don't realize it until you're dead. I am willing to get if they make it easier to see, that will increase your survival rate. The second thing I wiould advise, is to make it slow the character by 25%, maybe 50%, but not more than 50% or it could end up making it silly to even use at that point.
I would be fine with that but also make block break it like soul assault and don't allow gap closer mechanics to be used while it is active again like soul assault. I think we're on to something here. If you want those things to work on it I'm fine with that but then make it a gtaoe like all other similar ults are.Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
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I guess you only play small part of the game, which is pvp. I play all the content and while being vampire lets me get huge amount of ap from stupid people who stand in aoe, I pay a huge penalty for it in pve. Vampire has no use in pve and being vampire ruins the pve experience for me and my group. That reason alone should make Vampire really good in pvp or there would be no reason for anyone to be vampire.I would be ok with more nerfs like this for vampires if they also nerfed downsides of being one. How about, nerf swarm but also cut fire damage penalty by half?
Yes. Because the "weaknesses" are meaningless anyway and removing the weakness would prove that. I suppose against PVE Fire Spammers, you will probably die a lot more. But in PVP the only "danger" is Fire Siege and guess what? That will kill a non-vamp in the exact same amount of time it takes to kill a vamp anyway. I want the vamp weakness to be meaningful.
They have the most OP Ultimate ever designed, and they have no real weakness.
Your guess is wrong.
Vampire has a lot of use in PVE. It isn't OP in PVE to the point that one vamp can wreck the whole dungeon while everyone else struggles to keep up.
Vampires have no use in PVE? Spoken like someone who hasn't PVE'd much. Come back when you are higher than level 20.
So how's Dragonstar Arena treating you? : )0 -
Blackthorn51✭✭✭Honestly bat swarm is a nub ability anyway. I play a vampire and dont even have batswarm on any of my bars. Batswarm is what you use when you dont know how to properly use your other ultimates. It saves you in a zerg ball. In 1 on 1 all it takes is a single Knock Back Arrow and the ultimate is wasted lol. People need to learn how to counter better.0
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Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭I have played my main Nightblade as both Vampire and Non-Vampire.
Devouring Swarm is so powerful that I do not bother to use other Ultimates when I am a vampire.
If I am in PvP and I cast Veil of Blades while AoE spamming in a group, it might help me survive a bit longer. People can dodge out of it and I lose much of the benefit from casting it.
If I am in PvP and I cast Devouring Swarm while AoE spamming in a group, I do not really have to worry about my Health until my Magicka runs out. If anyone tries to move out of it, I just tap a gap closer and they keep on taking damage.
The combination of low cost, solid damage, excellent healing, and mobility while casting makes this skill golden.
I would really like it if Nightblade's Veil of Blades cost as little as Stage 4 Swarm does though. Especially since it can't move.
Or, I'd really like it if Soul Tether healed and damaged as reliably as Swarm; someone blocks the Stun they block the healing tether and I blew 150 Ultimate that would have been better spent on Swarm.
I do not have issue with Bat Swarm though; it is quite powerful but it is also one of only two Ultimates in the game that require the character to actively have negative effects/stat debuffs impacting him or her in order to be cast.
Werewolf is the other, but I do not wish to see Vampire taken down to the level of Werewolf; Werewolf just needs to be far better for its costs.
Werewolf is about where these optional lines should be in power level. They should add a certain flavor to the game not make the entire population want to be turned into one. I would be willing to be that Bethesda or zenimax didn't design vampires with the intent of making it be this or be less effective in pvp.Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign0 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭ShadoPanauin wrote: »How about... don't stand in the swarms and melt them with ranged attacks? They rely on feeding on you.. don't stand in it and single target them down.. they melt. GG.
I guess the fact that they can follow you while you try to run slipped your mind. Don't worry I am reminding you now.Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign1 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭I have a remedy for bar swarm. It is the PERFECT counter.....NEGATE. problem solved. Yea sure it is only for sorcs but in pvp it only takes one sorc with negate to put an end to the ulti.
Problem is 8 out of 10 sorcs will just use their own bat swarm to counter...Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭I am on the fence about being a vamp at this point (I have been one for the last 3 months). This would make me shed the curse.0
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Govalon✭✭✭✭
I guess you only play small part of the game, which is pvp. I play all the content and while being vampire lets me get huge amount of ap from stupid people who stand in aoe, I pay a huge penalty for it in pve. Vampire has no use in pve and being vampire ruins the pve experience for me and my group. That reason alone should make Vampire really good in pvp or there would be no reason for anyone to be vampire.I would be ok with more nerfs like this for vampires if they also nerfed downsides of being one. How about, nerf swarm but also cut fire damage penalty by half?
Yes. Because the "weaknesses" are meaningless anyway and removing the weakness would prove that. I suppose against PVE Fire Spammers, you will probably die a lot more. But in PVP the only "danger" is Fire Siege and guess what? That will kill a non-vamp in the exact same amount of time it takes to kill a vamp anyway. I want the vamp weakness to be meaningful.
They have the most OP Ultimate ever designed, and they have no real weakness.
Your guess is wrong.
Vampire has a lot of use in PVE. It isn't OP in PVE to the point that one vamp can wreck the whole dungeon while everyone else struggles to keep up.
Vampires have no use in PVE? Spoken like someone who hasn't PVE'd much. Come back when you are higher than level 20.
LOL. This post shows you clearly do not pve. By pve, I mean real pve which is trials, arena, hard to get pve achievements etc. I do not talk about quests or some noob dungeons that you can run through without any kind of planing or not having a tank at all and so on. Vampire has no use in real pve.Edited by Govalon on September 26, 2014 4:41PM0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭LOL. This post shows you clearly do not pve. By pve, I mean real pve which is trials, arena, hard to get pve achievements etc. I do not talk about quests or some noob dungeons that you can run through without any kind of planing or not having a tank at all and so on. Vampire has no use in real pve.
Wrong... I am vamp healer and I use the magicka regen passive and bat swarm to save my *** so I don't die and let my whole group wipe...
Edited by akray21 on September 26, 2014 6:50PM0 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
I guess you only play small part of the game, which is pvp. I play all the content and while being vampire lets me get huge amount of ap from stupid people who stand in aoe, I pay a huge penalty for it in pve. Vampire has no use in pve and being vampire ruins the pve experience for me and my group. That reason alone should make Vampire really good in pvp or there would be no reason for anyone to be vampire.I would be ok with more nerfs like this for vampires if they also nerfed downsides of being one. How about, nerf swarm but also cut fire damage penalty by half?
Yes. Because the "weaknesses" are meaningless anyway and removing the weakness would prove that. I suppose against PVE Fire Spammers, you will probably die a lot more. But in PVP the only "danger" is Fire Siege and guess what? That will kill a non-vamp in the exact same amount of time it takes to kill a vamp anyway. I want the vamp weakness to be meaningful.
They have the most OP Ultimate ever designed, and they have no real weakness.
Your guess is wrong.
Vampire has a lot of use in PVE. It isn't OP in PVE to the point that one vamp can wreck the whole dungeon while everyone else struggles to keep up.
Vampires have no use in PVE? Spoken like someone who hasn't PVE'd much. Come back when you are higher than level 20.
LOL. This post shows you clearly do not pve. By pve, I mean real pve which is trials, arena, hard to get pve achievements etc. I do not talk about quests or some noob dungeons that you can run through without any kind of planing or not having a tank at all and so on. Vampire has no use in real pve.
I have to agree. My VR7 Vampire Witch is having a blast in Craglorn, usually I'll stealth the front and hope for a PUG to appear for the boss. Just did the Elinhir one solo except for the boss. Great fun.
My Vampire powers are not much use, I can snack on adds in a Dungeon, finish trash in the approach, but that's about it. I will keep her but in the real dungeons it's not an advantage.0 -
Govalon✭✭✭✭
Just stop please, you are embarrassing yourself. You clearly don't compete in trials. Nobody in their right mind would use bat swarm in trials.LOL. This post shows you clearly do not pve. By pve, I mean real pve which is trials, arena, hard to get pve achievements etc. I do not talk about quests or some noob dungeons that you can run through without any kind of planing or not having a tank at all and so on. Vampire has no use in real pve.
Wrong... I am vamp healer and I use the magicka regen passive and bat swarm to save my *** so I don't die and let my whole group wipe...0 -
GoatKnuckle✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »Vamps aren't really optional when they overpower nonvamps by so much that you either vamp or don't pvp.
You are forced to vamp. You can choose not too, but you won't be as successful.
The problem, again, is that Vamps can use other abilities while Bat Swarm is active. Bat Swarm should require channeling.
1. It moves with the caster, using gap closers.
2. Sometimes it becomes invisible with Caster when they use speed/invis potion.
3. It is nondirectional.
4. It has the biggest radius of all abilities.
5. other abilities can be used while it is in effect.
6. It drains the life of all players, restoring more HP than you can ever take in damage.
The combination of all 6 of these things makes it gamebreaking OP.
This is without considering Bat Swarm is normally deployed by the "Zerg Ball" where 20 people pack in together. This makes the vamp impossible to target with Silver Shards or Fire.
This solution would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the whiners. As a Vampire, I don't mind it being changed to a channeled ability.
You get my vote.
Incorrect. They will continue to find more things to whine about. That is why they are whiners. It doesn't stop. EVER.0 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »ShadoPanauin wrote: »How about... don't stand in the swarms and melt them with ranged attacks? They rely on feeding on you.. don't stand in it and single target them down.. they melt. GG.
I guess the fact that they can follow you while you try to run slipped your mind. Don't worry I am reminding you now.
Or they will use leash, talons spam or other gap chasers.
Within; Without.0