I'll have to agree to an extent. The new end game content is extremely challenging and even the most static, skilled groups find it to be this way. That alone makes it hard to spam zone chat, and pug groups don't stand a chance just yet. Even with strats, the content is worlds more challenging than even the hard modes of AA & HR. And it should be. To put out more trials that were just stack and burn would be the end of PVE in this game. Everyone would just get bored. On the other hand, making it more challenging does isolate the more casual players and those looking for zone chat groups.

Lol what "new end game".

Sigh....people still think there is an "end game" and Vet ranks are levels....

Psst, if you block someone who does a heavy attack on you...they get stunned. Did you know that one?

Agreed, as a casual player I took an arrow to my leveling knee when ZOS raised the level cap every other updates.

Normally MMOs raise level cap every couple years, not every couple months. Still subbed hoping for some better changes. But might have to ultimately vote with my wallet...

Guppet wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

The game already took far longer than most other MMO's to get to max level.

You must not actually play any other MMOs. Leveling in ESO is about as fast and easy as it gets.

NerfEverything wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

The game already took far longer than most other MMO's to get to max level.

You must not actually play any other MMOs. Leveling in ESO is about as fast and easy as it gets.

You may think your being smart, your not. I have been playing MMO's for over a decade. The time taken to get to VR10 is massively more than any other MMO released since EQ. So all MMO's in the past 10 years have leveling take a much shorter time.

If you want to be as clever as you think you are, tell me a single successful mainstream MMO, released in the past 10 years that took longer to reach max level (VR10) in then ESO? If you cant give me good examples, then your full of it.

ESO then increased the level cap twice in its first six months!!

I cant even reach max level due to the lack of solo content.

They did not think this part through.

Guppet wrote: »

The reason its not much played is due to them increasing the level cap twice in 6 months. Most people are not VR14!

The game already took far longer than most other MMO's to get to max level. Without any exploits or grinding, it took about 5 days played (playing through the quests, not spacing). Which was maybe a day less than the average MMO to get to max level. But, then then went and added the whole VR grind crud, which added another 10 days played.

Each VR level takes about as much content as 8 normal levels (not 10 as people have sometimes said, but it does take about the same time 10 normal levels take, due to the increase in difficulty.

So they were already at a point that it took about 15 days played to get to max level, then they added 4 more VR levels, with no solo able content to get through them. Fricking genius that.

Even assuming that the average casual player can get through those extra 4 VR levels, its going to take them in the region of 19 days played to get to max level. That's 456 hours! 76 Hours a month or19 hours a week. How many casual players do you think put in 19 hours a week to a game? Oh that's right, people playing that type of time scale are not in anyway casual.

You want to know why the content is not being played? Its due to stupid decisions like increasing the VR cap, when most people have not hit it yet. You never ever increase a level cap before the vast majority of people have hit it, its common sense, well apparently its not.

I'm sure the word [snip] will be moderated, so when the mod comes in can they please ask for us what actual percentage of the player base is VR14 and what percentage was VR12 before they increased the level cap to 14, that would be super!!!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

I tend to agree with this. This is what I have seen over time. I had a bustling guild of long time players from previous games going back to EQ1 at launch that were enjoying the game (60 members strong). Then VR levels hit and the roster started drying up because of the grind. Then the VR caps are raised. Even more leave.

It's sort of a death spiral type of thing because as people start leaving then it's harder to keep others from leaving. Even with stepped up recruiting I couldn't recruit faster than I was losing people. Hell, most of the people that I recruited stopped logging in almost immediately.

So in that sort of environment I have never been able to participate in most of the group content because the game design has pushed so many people away before getting there that my guild has become a hollowed out husk.

I haven't minded the VR content personally but I don't think it was a good game design and I don't think the "end game" is that compelling to draw players through the content to see it. In addition to trials they should add 8 or 12 man raid content or something and other worthwhile activities for max level players (and stop raising the level cap FFS).

Personally, I'm burned out on "end game content = raids" as a default. If that's where the development focus is, it loses me.

Beyond that, yes, there's a problem when a large part of the player base is never going to reach the point that they can even access the content when it's current because of the length and tedium of the grind needed to get there, even IF they're interested in yet another raid experience like every other game offers (more quickly at that).

There's not much that can be done about the first point if that's where TESO is headed. A focus on solo and small group content would be a nice change, but I don't see that happening right now.

As to the second...

While it's difficult to see how the long slog through normal and veteran ranks could be avoided without obsoleting most of what's already there, an alternative would be to make the new stuff (whether as 'end game' or elsewhere) level-agnostic. Neverwinter Online has done something like this with their events; interactions between characters and creatures have their math scaled under the hood so that low level and top-level characters are dealing with them on an even footing; the only advantage that higher level characters have is a wider pool of skills to draw on (and like TESO, there's a very limited number on the action bar at any one time, so this represents flexibility rather than raw power). That allows everyone - new player or old vet - to participate and come out of it with similar experiences and rewards, which are mostly cosmetic but usually includes some functional accessories, and gear drops and the like are also scaled according to the level of the character receiving them.

Could this also be implemented in TESO? The 'battle leveling' system in Cydodiil, clunky and often not particularly useful as it is, is taking the same sort of idea and trying to implement it differently (by just giving flat stat boosts rather than making the scaling happen behind the scenes with those specific creature interactions). The biggest barrier to this would probably be from among the player base itself. ("How dare they be allowed into my 'leet content without having grinded uphill both ways to get here!", etc.)

Main issue I'm seeing at the moment is the high cost of repairs in Arena.

Did another run with a different set of guildies and it was better less wipe we called it at wave 8

I personally love the content - the trial is difficult we are on the first boss still trying to work out the stack but sometimes encounters can be tuned so hard that teams break apart which = losing players

I sincerely hope it picks up but it is so dead craglorn side in Oceanic time zone . I hope it gets better because I love this game but don't want to play it if it's a ghost town.

Vahrokh wrote: »

I feel good for the difficulty of the new encounters.

However, the ultra-majority of ESO players are casual or super-casual, they don't stand a single chance doing this new content. And they will eventually quit, as they don't have any single player alternative nor "easy enough for casuals" trial or something.

WoW did well when they understood that even casual players want to do "some sort of end game" and put in 10 men mini-raids.
ZoS should have implemented best loot hard mode trials and worse loot trials, maybe requiring just 8 people. Put in them a small chance to get the better gear as well, like 1 guy per raid once a week gets a chance to get a better drop.

There'd be still enough incentive for hard core groups to do the hard modes because the gear drops plenty often but still give an "hope" to casuals.


In Lower Craglorn we had normal mode trials working more or less well enough for casual players and hard mode for hard core
In Upper Craglorn, I feel casual players got the shaft.

I agree with this, and whilst I understand that this is due to the feedback that we don't want to stick and stack, and that AA and HR normal are too easy - this is too drastic an alternative!

So far my guild have put in 5-6 hours in SO and cant get the first boss down, when just before the patch we were trying AA and HR hard modes and getting close.

We will keep trying, as we know its been done by some very hardcore guilds, but wow, steep learning curve!

I think a better alternative for all is two different versions of each trial, normal mode - hard mode (with all bosses having increased difficulties, mechanics and loot) - the hard modes could even drop unique looking, or alternatively named items with the same set bonus (maybe an increased version of the set bonus also), just for variety and to give you that edge when you return for your weekly fast runs - that would encourage those who want fast leaderboard times to work toward gearing for the hard modes and putting in the time to learn the extra mechanics etc.

So, let me tell you my story . I am Vr9 NB. I am what you would call a casual player. I've been here since early release, struggling if I may add. Struggling to reach the sky, but everytime I'm close it goes further away . And I am really happy because today in your post I realise I am not the only one with a self-defeating obsessive-compulsive tendency. Like Morduil (well described, mate) above, I am stuck in a limbo that I (my condition that is) and the developers created:

I have never been in Cyrodiil (cause I have to do it in the end,cause that's gonna be my endgame "treat". I'll PvP when my character will be on its best shape, no?), I still have 2 areas of Ebonheart to finish the Caldwell's gold (cause I have to finish every single little quest, and every skyshard,achievement, explore every little detail on these maps) and then it's Craglorn for me (cause this is what was intended by the developers, no?This is where I have to go, no?). So there I'll want to also make every little quest, find every little detail, etc. But guess what. From what I read and realise, I'll probably be stuck in the limbo of Craglorn, eternally doomed to spam the chat in order to find some other people with my disease, who actually read what quests say or are cool if you do

So, to answer our question: Endgame material? If I ever reach there, it 'll be in 3-4 months, when you'll make a new post to find the reason why ppl are not in the endgame areas .

Rylana wrote: »

One thing I learned right away in the new arena content - the stack and AOE blob will get you killed/wiped, every single time. (especially in stage 3, and anything above stage 8)

Could it be that those trials DPS spreadsheeters met their match when they tried to do something that actually took real strategy and not just "stack up and spam PBAoE @ 1100+ single target DPS to win"

BAHAHAHAHAHA

Wait, you mean people actually have to learn how to play the game in order to be successful at the Arena?

How dare the slamming of one's face against a keyboard repeatedly not be a valid tactic anylonger!

Just like how dare those Bats and Blades and Banners in Cyrodiil not part around me as if I were Moses in the Red Sea and instead kill me where I stand the position from which I refuse to move.

Those bastages.

/sarcasmoff

LonePirate wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

the trial community is tiny to be sure and wouldn't likely deal with a fragmenting

Then why is ZOS pursuing it with all of the new content it is pumping out for the trial community? Other, much larger player groups are getting nothing but the shaft from ZOS but the trial community is being treated like royalty as of late.

I don't think it has to do at all with this perceived favoritism your describing.

They set forth a deadline for things they wanted to get out from May to the beginning of next year.

Those things have been split up into more manageable sizes to be released as updates. Just because some content comes before others in no way shape or form denotes favoritism, it's just the order in which they decided to release the content.

These players aren't victims of some massive Zenimax conspiracy. ZOS isn't tying anyone to a train track and twirling their mustaches before scurrying off with their capes and top hats.

At ease.

Rodario wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

ESO do allow you to play you way, but I can not for my life understand why someone buys the game....to not play it?

I'm aaaaaaaaalmost Vet 7 and still got tons to see. While some sits with 4 x Vet 14 and claims their bored. I am trying my best not to get any exp....have to skip bloody chests so I keep Vet 6 before done in Riverspire....

@Cogo‌ I'm sorry to inform you that chests do not grant experience after lvl 50, neither does exploration btw. This may change with the champion system, but info on it is obscure.

Let me get this straight...you say, that today, after patch 1.4, opening chests and explore does not give EXP for Vet rank players?

Stratti wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Most players are around around vet 3-8. Those vet areas are always full of people. Players who don't speed around....but plays.

I think quite a big part plays alts as well, but still plays just like the "hardcore" vets ;-)

Zeni did say they throwing "hard" encounters our way that does require skill.
Like 2 years ago.....

I might get banned for this, but I wonder how many of those who level fast, even done any instanced dungeon at the correct level?

Excluding the few elite raid guilds we have.

Imperial City gonna be very interesting. PvP homebase where Elite PvE raiders wants to go....Interesting clash....

Then Justice system on that....YUM! GIMME!

It's great that your excited about the future promises - I love the game but there is a limit to the lack of community I will put up with before returning to the behemoth

Problem is we will never get to those future update if the casual base goes and Oceania at the moment is looking grim at least DC wise.

My fear is ZOS have blinkers on and won't correct the ship, even if they notice it tipping.

Please keep an eye on it as this is my first non WoW MMO and it's 50/50 at the moment.

I feel really bad now....cause you did answer me very politely.
But what planet are you on?

The whole damn world screamed FAIL the first month(so), and Matt Firor was ice cold. Didnt give a damn. AH!!! Arena pvp! Its takes to long to level!! Free respec!! (ok you got that one)...Lol! Free to play!

That ship has sailed! Even a few websites is starting to REALLY review ESO this time and .....its positive!

ESO will not go wow....that is why we are here today.
They have a plan and rolling out accordingly. Check what they promised in May,
10 items out of 14 is done.

Xbox release = security for ESO until then.
IF ESO would fail...its not wowing....or Free-to-play. It gets SOLD.
This is Zenimax....not a small puppy company. Donald Trumps son is in the board.....if that tell you anything.

I am just guessing from a gut feeling. JUST like I had a gut feeling that balance would come as soon as the game was stable. And it did!

Cogo wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Rodario wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

ESO do allow you to play you way, but I can not for my life understand why someone buys the game....to not play it?

I'm aaaaaaaaalmost Vet 7 and still got tons to see. While some sits with 4 x Vet 14 and claims their bored. I am trying my best not to get any exp....have to skip bloody chests so I keep Vet 6 before done in Riverspire....

@Cogo‌ I'm sorry to inform you that chests do not grant experience after lvl 50, neither does exploration btw. This may change with the champion system, but info on it is obscure.

Let me get this straight...you say, that today, after patch 1.4, opening chests and explore does not give EXP for Vet rank players?

I was under the impression they put that back in as part of their mission to move to the Champion system. IE Veteran Points are no longer a thing and you gain XP the same ways you did from 1-50, now gaining Veteran ranks through accrual of XP rather than VP.

I could be wrong and they haven't instituted that yet when I thought they already had.

Um. Are none of you reading the patch notes?

Do I have to link how the game works for you?

Easy there, chucklenuts. Climb outa my throat. I'm going off what I remember hearing in the QuakeCon video.

I said "I could be wrong."

Tone down the d-baggery.

Cogo wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Most players are around around vet 3-8. Those vet areas are always full of people. Players who don't speed around....but plays.

I think quite a big part plays alts as well, but still plays just like the "hardcore" vets ;-)

Zeni did say they throwing "hard" encounters our way that does require skill.
Like 2 years ago.....

I might get banned for this, but I wonder how many of those who level fast, even done any instanced dungeon at the correct level?

Excluding the few elite raid guilds we have.

Imperial City gonna be very interesting. PvP homebase where Elite PvE raiders wants to go....Interesting clash....

Then Justice system on that....YUM! GIMME!

It's great that your excited about the future promises - I love the game but there is a limit to the lack of community I will put up with before returning to the behemoth

Problem is we will never get to those future update if the casual base goes and Oceania at the moment is looking grim at least DC wise.

My fear is ZOS have blinkers on and won't correct the ship, even if they notice it tipping.

Please keep an eye on it as this is my first non WoW MMO and it's 50/50 at the moment.

I feel really bad now....cause you did answer me very politely.
But what planet are you on?

The whole damn world screamed FAIL the first month(so), and Matt Firor was ice cold. Didnt give a damn. AH!!! Arena pvp! Its takes to long to level!! Free respec!! (ok you got that one)...Lol! Free to play!

That ship has sailed! Even a few websites is starting to REALLY review ESO this time and .....its positive!

ESO will not go wow....that is why we are here today.
They have a plan and rolling out accordingly. Check what they promised in May,
10 items out of 14 is done.

Xbox release = security for ESO until then.
IF ESO would fail...its not wowing....or Free-to-play. It gets SOLD.
This is Zenimax....not a small puppy company. Donald Trumps son is in the board.....if that tell you anything.

I am just guessing from a gut feeling. JUST like I had a gut feeling that balance would come as soon as the game was stable. And it did!

You misunderstand and I certainly wasnt impolite sorry you felt that way.

I dont have negativity towards WoW - I played it for 10 years and was a great game - community is a bit toxic atm and its in a content lull. I mean I love this ESO game and dont want to have to give up in it.

The core ingredient of MMO is the MM that is Massively Multiplayer . At the moment I dont feel the massively