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Any Future for Nightblades? Devs contribute pls
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Vuron✭✭✭✭✭@thorspark wrote: »Things I'd really like to see for my NB :
Fix Haste and its morphs : It has never, and I really say never increased the weapon attack speed. With or without it, your heavy attack will always take 2 second to load. It only does something to the delay between attacks. That is not what the skill tooltip says, FIX IT !
You don't know how attack speed works. It was never meant to speed up the attack animation. Attack speed reduces the internal cooldown between light and heavy weapon attacks. It works as intended and has worked for a while. There is nothing to fix.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »[...]Marked target gives the target a huge advantage against the nightblade. the downside for the caster should be like half of what it is. Even then it seems excessive, [...]
The only change I feel Marked Target needs is to remove any indication to the targeted player they have been marked. Then it can be used in conjunction with the initial surprise attack. As it is using the skill now as part of an initial attack is worse than useless, it's detrimental.
I always thought Mark Target was supposed to be a support ability. IE, you mark someone right before your buddy slams them.
no it's very much a solo gank ability, your buddy doesn't even get the bonus from it, only you do.
In exchange for dousing yourself in kerosene... I'm glad I never bothered unlocking it now.![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »[...]Marked target gives the target a huge advantage against the nightblade. the downside for the caster should be like half of what it is. Even then it seems excessive, [...]
The only change I feel Marked Target needs is to remove any indication to the targeted player they have been marked. Then it can be used in conjunction with the initial surprise attack. As it is using the skill now as part of an initial attack is worse than useless, it's detrimental.
I always thought Mark Target was supposed to be a support ability. IE, you mark someone right before your buddy slams them.
no it's very much a solo gank ability, your buddy doesn't even get the bonus from it, only you do.
In exchange for dousing yourself in kerosene... I'm glad I never bothered unlocking it now.
it's only really any good for sniping. You either want to do it before the arrow lands but after casting snipe or right after the arrow hits. Otherwise your are just advertising your existence.
The other use is to terrorize the enemy form a safe distance. People go nuts when marked target starts getting dropped on them.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »[...]Marked target gives the target a huge advantage against the nightblade. the downside for the caster should be like half of what it is. Even then it seems excessive, [...]
The only change I feel Marked Target needs is to remove any indication to the targeted player they have been marked. Then it can be used in conjunction with the initial surprise attack. As it is using the skill now as part of an initial attack is worse than useless, it's detrimental.
I always thought Mark Target was supposed to be a support ability. IE, you mark someone right before your buddy slams them.
no it's very much a solo gank ability, your buddy doesn't even get the bonus from it, only you do.
In exchange for dousing yourself in kerosene... I'm glad I never bothered unlocking it now.
it's only really any good for sniping. You either want to do it before the arrow lands but after casting snipe or right after the arrow hits. Otherwise your are just advertising your existence.
The other use is to terrorize the enemy form a safe distance. People go nuts when marked target starts getting dropped on them.
Okay, yeah, randomly trolling people I can get behind.
I suppose it might have a use for dealing with vampires when combined with silver bolts. But... even that's a stretch.
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Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have been thinking recently about a possible change idea to mark target and/or its morphs. What if, instead of a massive burst heal upon target death, it placed 4-6 charges of 10% self heal that would be consumed by any damage you do (or just single target attacks. Maybe a lesser % and different charge for aoe.) Yes, you would turn the both of you to glass in terms of resistance, but the Nightblade would at least have the ability to attack without getting rolled as hard. It would also be counterable by cc. It could be a cool morph at least...
Edited by Shunravi on September 22, 2014 4:33PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have been thinking recently about a possible change idea to mark target and/or its morphs. What if, instead of a massive burst heal upon target death, it placed 4-6 charges of 10% self heal that would be consumed by any damage you do (or just single target attacks. Maybe a lesser % and different charge for aoe.) Yes, you would turn the both of you to glass in terms of resistance, but the Nightblade would at least have the ability to attack without getting rolled as hard. It would also be counterable by cc. It could be a cool morph at least...
Honestly, it probably just shouldn't have a resistance debuff applied to the user. I'm not sure how that one makes sense at all. Maybe a stamina/magicka regen debuff, with a morph for a heal on kill or to allow other players to also deal additional damage to the target, but damage vulnerability? How does that even make sense.0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »I have been thinking recently about a possible change idea to mark target and/or its morphs. What if, instead of a massive burst heal upon target death, it placed 4-6 charges of 10% self heal that would be consumed by any damage you do (or just single target attacks. Maybe a lesser % and different charge for aoe.) Yes, you would turn the both of you to glass in terms of resistance, but the Nightblade would at least have the ability to attack without getting rolled as hard. It would also be counterable by cc. It could be a cool morph at least...
Honestly, it probably just shouldn't have a resistance debuff applied to the user. I'm not sure how that one makes sense at all. Maybe a stamina/magicka regen debuff, with a morph for a heal on kill or to allow other players to also deal additional damage to the target, but damage vulnerability? How does that even make sense.
Yea... There are a good many things that could be changed about the skill. The whole 'I'm lowering us both to bring you to my level' doesn't work against a target with sustain though. The efffect should be significantly less or non existent on the caster.... Or as I suggested, give the caster a form of in fight sustain. As it is, it is only good for a ranged supprise attack because it lets the target know they are targeted, and that the caster has less resistance and barely any self sustain. Either you or my idea could work to improve this.Edited by Shunravi on September 22, 2014 4:47PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
Ridicularded✭✭✭Everyone in this thread complaining that nightblades are broken, please Alt+F4 and uninstall your game client. Nightblades are the TOP PvE DPS, in 90% of raid scenarios.4 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ridicularded wrote: »Everyone in this thread complaining that nightblades are broken, please Alt+F4 and uninstall your game client. Nightblades are the TOP PvE DPS, in 90% of raid scenarios.
Ofc we are, but not in PvP scenarios. Especially in the rogue playstyle. If you cannot comprehend what people are talking about, maybe you should turn off you computer and never visit the internet again.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!4 -
Tamanous✭✭✭✭✭Ridicularded wrote: »Everyone in this thread complaining that nightblades are broken, please Alt+F4 and uninstall your game client. Nightblades are the TOP PvE DPS, in 90% of raid scenarios.
Screenshots proving NB has higher dps than 1600dps DKs that can do that sustained for BOTH single target and aoe?
Btw, real, non-whiner nightblades only want their skills to work as intended. It isn't about being uber powerful. It is about all their skills actually working.Edited by Tamanous on September 22, 2014 4:52PM4 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
Uhh, nobody can maintain 1.6k single target dps on a true sustain (e.g., final boss of AA). The 1.6k+ dps parses are from bosses like the storm atronach which is not a measure of sustain.Ridicularded wrote: »Everyone in this thread complaining that nightblades are broken, please Alt+F4 and uninstall your game client. Nightblades are the TOP PvE DPS, in 90% of raid scenarios.
Screenshots proving NB has higher dps than 1600dps DKs that can do that sustained for BOTH single target and aoe?
Btw, real, non-whiner nightblades only want their skills to work as intended. It isn't about being uber powerful. It is about all their skills actually working.
1.6k sustained AOE DPS? Easily, at least on a magicka NB.
But in any case, NB magicka dps is being nerfed with the resto staff nerf. When the nerf is actually implemented, we'll see what the result is.Edited by Aeratus on September 22, 2014 5:03PM1 -
Tamanous✭✭✭✭✭
Uhh, nobody can maintain 1.6k single target dps on a true sustain (e.g., final boss of AA). The 1.6k+ dps parses are from bosses like the storm atronach which is not a measure of sustain.Ridicularded wrote: »Everyone in this thread complaining that nightblades are broken, please Alt+F4 and uninstall your game client. Nightblades are the TOP PvE DPS, in 90% of raid scenarios.
Screenshots proving NB has higher dps than 1600dps DKs that can do that sustained for BOTH single target and aoe?
Btw, real, non-whiner nightblades only want their skills to work as intended. It isn't about being uber powerful. It is about all their skills actually working.
1.6k sustained AOE DPS? Easily, at least on a magicka NB.
But in any case, NB magicka dps is being nerfed with the resto staff nerf. When the nerf is actually implemented, we'll see what the result is.
Once again this isn't as much a class issue as a skirt and stick issue. Raid type scenarios have always been the worst possible measure of how functional a class is. It does not account for the vast majority of that class's skills which are not used during dps spamming. NB complaints stem from all areas of the game: solo, pvp, small group, trials, etc. When considering all content, build variety and overall function that nightblade still have many unresolved issues.
This is a class based around a single defensive and offensive mechanic (cloak) which continues to suffer from bugs. It is a crit class (for most builds) that can be negated in pvp from one trait. It has abilities padding trees that lack potency and are never used over others. It is the only class that is supposed to use haste as a primary form of dps gain but it continues to be a useless mechanic in game.
It is more about all the issues causing limited choices for the class.6 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭The nerf (or planned nerf) of the resto staff will hit NBs the hardest among the magicka builds of any class, and this does reflect problems with the class. I would agree that it reflects the limited choices for the class.
The reason why resto is so crucial to NBs is that NBs do not have any good synergy between class skills and weapon skills. Therefore, the preferred method of dps was simply to stack class skills (mainly funnel health and crippling crasp for single target, and drain power for AOE) and spam them over and over.
On the other hand, sorc has critical surge, which permits them to actually use destro (rather than resto). Critical surge (class skill) improves crushing shock (weapon skill), which in turn procs crystal fragments (class skill). You'll never find this synergy between class skills and weapon skills in an NB.
The nerf to the crit% from pvp cyrodiil buffs also hit NBs hard, since NBs rely on crit. These general nerfs expose the larger problems with the NB.4 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The nerf (or planned nerf) of the resto staff will hit NBs the hardest among the magicka builds of any class, and this does reflect problems with the class. I would agree that it reflects the limited choices for the class.
The reason why resto is so crucial to NBs is that NBs do not have any good synergy between class skills and weapon skills. Therefore, the preferred method of dps was simply to stack class skills (mainly funnel health and crippling crasp for single target, and drain power for AOE) and spam them over and over.
On the other hand, sorc has critical surge, which permits them to actually use destro (rather than resto). Critical surge (class skill) improves crushing shock (weapon skill), which in turn procs crystal fragments (class skill). You'll never find this synergy between class skills and weapon skills in an NB.
The nerf to the crit% from pvp cyrodiil buffs also hit NBs hard, since NBs rely on crit. These general nerfs expose the larger problems with the NB.
In single target maybe. In aoe, sap or extract can be chained with impulse and whirlwind for som crazy damage. We don't build our ults as fast though, but I would imagine it's a decent trade off dps wise.
But, ya, we have poor synergy compared to sorcs (frag and surge) and Dk (drown the world in fire)
Ah well, I wonder what else they will do to my chance for my class...This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭So no cloak fix no stamina balance and a planned resto nerf. This could be the final straw for the remaining nb's they have.1 -
Khami✭✭✭✭
Funnel health gives back heals to player and 2 others. Veil of blades does this...Creates an area of darkness for 15 seconds. Enemies in this area are snared 70% and take 4 Magic Damage every 0.5 seconds. Nearby allies take -30% less damage and caster gains an additional 100% of this value. Grants allies in the area Slip Away, granting them invisibility.
There's your mitigation.4 -
kitsinni✭✭✭✭✭
Funnel health gives back heals to player and 2 others. Veil of blades does this...Creates an area of darkness for 15 seconds. Enemies in this area are snared 70% and take 4 Magic Damage every 0.5 seconds. Nearby allies take -30% less damage and caster gains an additional 100% of this value. Grants allies in the area Slip Away, granting them invisibility.
There's your mitigation.
LMAO this is a first .. an ultimate is our mitigation .. now I have seen it all!!!5 -
thorspark✭✭✭You don't know how attack speed works. It was never meant to speed up the attack animation. Attack speed reduces the internal cooldown between light and heavy weapon attacks. It works as intended and has worked for a while. There is nothing to fix.
If it was intended to reduce time between light and heavy attacks, it should say so in the tooltip : "Reduce ..."
Haste is saying "Increase attack speed" so yes, it definitely should impact the attack animation, therefore the attack speed of the weapon.
While everybody uses animation cancelling, reducing the internal cooldown between attacks is just useless, you allways put a skill in between.
So, either they change the tooltip, and acknowledge the skill is useless, or they change it to actually "increase" attack speed.
Yes, there is something to fix.
DK Vet 12 / NB Vampire Vet 7 / Sorcerer Vet 5 / Templar WW - Guilde Les pochtrons1 -
Kego✭✭✭✭With reducing the internal CD of Weapon Swings, your attack speed is increased.
Got damn, so many whines. Did I missed that Nightblades are made for Emos? Edited by Kego on September 23, 2014 7:18AM1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭You don't know how attack speed works. It was never meant to speed up the attack animation. Attack speed reduces the internal cooldown between light and heavy weapon attacks. It works as intended and has worked for a while. There is nothing to fix.
If it was intended to reduce time between light and heavy attacks, it should say so in the tooltip : "Reduce ..."
Haste is saying "Increase attack speed" so yes, it definitely should impact the attack animation, therefore the attack speed of the weapon.
While everybody uses animation cancelling, reducing the internal cooldown between attacks is just useless, you allways put a skill in between.
So, either they change the tooltip, and acknowledge the skill is useless, or they change it to actually "increase" attack speed.
Yes, there is something to fix.
Actually, the way that you want them to fix haste is what would make it useless w/ animation cancelling.
The way it works currently, w/ haste lowering the internal cooldown of basic attacks, it works out to a dps increase as it lowers the time before you can start your next light attack.
You currently cannot start your next light attack / ability cycle for ~1.3 seconds w/out haste. With the haste buff, it lowers this to around 1 second, giving you the dps increase.
The tooltip isn't what's misleading, imo. Attack speed in this game simply works differently than what a lot of people are used to. It increases the number of attacks per minute by decreasing the time between your swings, instead of decreasing the time that it takes to swing (which is cancelled by animation cancelling anyway).
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Father✭✭✭Ridicularded wrote: »Everyone in this thread complaining that nightblades are broken, please Alt+F4 and uninstall your game client. Nightblades are the TOP PvE DPS, in 90% of raid scenarios.
Top dps in pve only by using 1 single build, sap essence/impulse and funnel health spell symmetry mages light and veil of blades or devouring swarm,7/7 light armor and a staff hell the weapon is not even important anymore since the nerf of cycle of life.
That sums it up thats your top dpser, If there are other aoe dps builds please shed some light.0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭You don't know how attack speed works. It was never meant to speed up the attack animation. Attack speed reduces the internal cooldown between light and heavy weapon attacks. It works as intended and has worked for a while. There is nothing to fix.
If it was intended to reduce time between light and heavy attacks, it should say so in the tooltip : "Reduce ..."
Haste is saying "Increase attack speed" so yes, it definitely should impact the attack animation, therefore the attack speed of the weapon.
While everybody uses animation cancelling, reducing the internal cooldown between attacks is just useless, you allways put a skill in between.
So, either they change the tooltip, and acknowledge the skill is useless, or they change it to actually "increase" attack speed.
Yes, there is something to fix.
There is nothing to fix, it does what it's intended to. At best you can argue that the tooltip is misleading but you're right, it's doing what they intended it to.0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ridicularded wrote: »Everyone in this thread complaining that nightblades are broken, please Alt+F4 and uninstall your game client. Nightblades are the TOP PvE DPS, in 90% of raid scenarios.
I think your confused. Top pve dps is by far and away DK using flame staff up 2000 burst 1500 sustained. Nb is probably the lowest after this. Templar crusader is about 1400 max nb caster will be about 1200 max. I'm not sure bout the sorc builds but as most pve builds use destro they should be unaffected.
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thorspark✭✭✭With reducing the internal CD of Weapon Swings, your attack speed is increased.
Got damn, so many whines. Did I missed that Nightblades are made for Emos?
If this is your definition of a useful post, you should stop posting.Actually, the way that you want them to fix haste is what would make it useless w/ animation cancelling.
The way it works currently, w/ haste lowering the internal cooldown of basic attacks, it works out to a dps increase as it lowers the time before you can start your next light attack.
You currently cannot start your next light attack / ability cycle for ~1.3 seconds w/out haste. With the haste buff, it lowers this to around 1 second, giving you the dps increase.
The tooltip isn't what's misleading, imo. Attack speed in this game simply works differently than what a lot of people are used to. It increases the number of attacks per minute by decreasing the time between your swings, instead of decreasing the time that it takes to swing (which is cancelled by animation cancelling anyway).
I understand your point but I'm still not ok with it. At least they should change the tooltip to avoid misunderstanding.
ATM it's useful if you use Animation Cancelling as you can cast light attacks faster between skills.
My point is not for light attacks but for heavy attacks. We now have a stamina return for heavy attacks. You only get stamina back if you full charge your attack (meaning 2 seconds) and that could have been a good improvement for stamina nightblades to sustain longer fights IF haste/incapacitate was playing on weapon animation time.
I'll deal with it as it is, but I still think this is not the way it should work or explained in the tooltip.
DK Vet 12 / NB Vampire Vet 7 / Sorcerer Vet 5 / Templar WW - Guilde Les pochtrons0 -
Father✭✭✭
Lotus Fan -> Power Extraction -> Steel Tornado. If the pack is 9 Mobs, enjoy your Weapon Power at Hard Cap for Steel Tornado that will hit for 600+ @50% health and below with rising numbers.That sums it up thats your top dpser, If there are other aoe dps builds please shed some light.
Thats not top dps build I doubt you can even hit 1k dps with that. But hey I'm not here to argue about builds there is a difference between top dps and OK dps, put a dk and ask him to make the maximum dps build and see how easy he could hit 1k++ dps while NB have to rub his brains so hard and mash bottons more just to taste the 1k dps wall,look at the devs videos of new content, show me 1 NB in there? Why is that? They literaly mock us.
Hell even in bursting single target we lose to sorc...
So how exactly NB are so good? They are playable if thats what you mean, have nothing special, the other classes got same utility as nb with no drawback.
Whats worse is PVP and don't let me get started on that 1 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VoB is good.. in PvE, not in PvP.
Only Sap Essence and Funnel Health are good for my group, all other skills are *** for larger fights.
I only want a Funnel Health fix and a but love for Haste, Mirage and Agony, nothing else.
Funnel health actually refresh the first heal u get over and over again.
U did 100 Dmg cause blocking etc? Wow 25 uncrit heal the whole fight, even if u Crit for 800 or 900 after that.
Mirage 15%Miss chance and don't stack with Dodge chance like Evasion or Sets like Hist Bark / Spectre Eye
Every class could use Evasion and got the same miss / Dodge chance like me.. It's rly worth it...
Agony 1.5 Sec cast time, don't work against block, breaks after dmg, easy break with interrupt. Best skill ever..
Haste has maybe a use but I think it's crap.
PS : Dmg is useless if you are dead.. We need defense skills like the other three Skills. But not a dmg shield pls..R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -0 -
Kego✭✭✭✭
My Stamina NB is only VR3 and uses SAP Essence, means only 6% WP Buff for each enemy, instead of 11% of Power Extraction.Thats not top dps build I doubt you can even hit 1k dps with that.
But even with lower WP and only VR3 and only AOE at 4-5 Targets I can get to 800-900DPS. There for 1K+ DPS should be no problem at all for DW AOE.
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