smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

...The only people I have seen object to this are PvPers who feel being in Stage 4 gives them an advantage in PvP so they never want to be out of it. In order to appease them I would be fine with the KoS to guards at Stage 4 NOT applying in Cyrodil...

Sadly, having all penalties apply in Cyrodil is probably the most important thing I wrote. ZOS has, with very limited exception, decided that PVE and PVP will have to balance together which means they live and die together.
If we want to be able to have RP features like the ones in this thread and if we want to keep our powerful feeling characters there need to be many fewer vampires PVPing in Cyrodil. Ask yourself if it weren't for PVP DK FOTM vampires would we have received any nerfs at all? We'd still be happily zipping around in our night's silence sets and the ridiculous scene that happened in the high level zones early on with people chasing bloodfiends wouldn't have happened either. Make it one hell of a commitment to be a vampire and the folks who only care about killing other players will drop it and we can play in peace.

right, because the keep guards of my own faction should attack me while I fight for the dominion.

whatever.

Yes, they should.
From an RP perspective they absolutly ought to attack as soon as they note an open, in their face, undead character that appears to them to be a minion of Molag Bal.

From a meta-game perspective feeding is not really all that hard especially in such a target rich enviroment.

Too many Vampires want all the Pro's and almost no Con's. My main has been a Vampire going on 6 months, fire damage in most cases is a joke if you enchant for it or are a Dunmer, passive health regen is really not a factor in any situation except between battles, in PVE that's it no major downsides.

In PVP many people don't bother with Fighter's guild abilities and seige damage has a big red marker on the ground to tell you it's coming.

But I digress, I, personally, want PVP to suck a lot more for Vampires, at least in daylight. I make no appologies for wanting to thin our numbers considerably. For a lot of players that only care about PVP, they are either a vampire because it increases their effectiveness in combat, or they aren't and they howl constantly about how overpowered we are leading to nerfs, and trust me, many more will be coming.

All the downsides aren't enough to matter. I'd prefer not to to see Vampires nerfed until it's no more than a couple debuffs and an appearace set. So we need to have downsides that aren't overarching combat nerfs. The same things that a lot of us would just eat up because it makes vampirism feel like a real factor in our story, would be just plain annoying to a lot of people. If PVP wasn't a Batswarm fest, there probably wouldn't have been any Vampire nerfs in the first place. If you (you may not) want cool RP features, there need to be fewer of us.

GoatKnuckle wrote: »

Morna, I could only get behind this if 1 of 2 things happened first. Either they extend the time for Phase 1 vampire or vamps are given their own city/area where they can conduct business without harassment.

The timer is much too short. IMHO, 1.5hrs or 2hrs per stage would be perfect. Though a full day/night cycle 5hrs - 6hrs would make more logical sense. I would have some merchants and some questgivers cut us off at stage 3 with only stage 4 resulting in violence. There'd be loads of warning that way.

A vampire city would be grand, as long as only vampires may go there peacefully, prey could enter, but they'd agro everything in sight (perhaps unless grouped with a Vampire. That would be an act of trust, LOL). It could be in a crypt or a cave, or a pocket of Oblivion like The Crow's Wood or The Village of the lost with hidden portals somewhere in each zone. A few could be in the depths of a public dungeon, a couple in the basements of Inns, a couple in crypts and caves, and isolated valley's.

Edit: I've got to stop editing this post.

chipputer wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

Also.

Melee, stamina, werewolves. All in desperate need of buffs.

And giving werewolves a passive health/stamina regen buff isn't the answer to fixing that problem and will only cause more problems down the line, if it were to be implemented.

We're not looking for band-aids, here.

To be fair, you are probably right, I know very little about werewolves in eso, having never played one. Seems to me that the archetype I'd expect would be mostly based around savagery: high survivability and damage but unable to cast your way out of a wet paper bag.

To also be fair, I said a lot more than passive regens:

Similar things should be done for Werewolves.
-toggle transformation
-major debuff to magicka and magicka regen even in human form
-above softcap health/stamina regen
-automaticly transmorm back to human if you fall below 20% health
-5 second AOE (no damage) fear effect during transformation
-very high movement speed, attack speed, and damage
-auto-transform under a full moon
-Werewolf form is Kill on sight for guards

Hamfast wrote: »

I am torn here, @smeeprocketnub19_ESO‌ is against this idea and I disagree with his points so often that I almost always think I should just disagree with him out of hand... but I agree with him on this.

The point was made that Vampires feed on towns folk, in truth, we can't... we can only feed on enemies, town/city guards have nothing to fear from a vampire because nobody in their town is at risk.

As @smeeprocketnub19_ESO‌ pointed out, if you play a vampire character and think Stage 4 Vampires should be KOS in Cities and Towns, feed before you go in, never allow yourself to be caught in town at stage 4... if you are in town and hit stage 4, sneak out and feed, a perfect opportunity for RP that does not force your ideas on others who disagree.

I am realllllly hoping that the justice system will allow vampires to feed on Townie NPCs. And if you do it where other NPCs or players SEE you doing it....bounty!

nightwalkerrobin_ESO wrote: »

I currently have 3 vampire toons and one WW tune. I have another who will be WW once he levels a bit more. I support that while in a city/town, vampires being KOS in Stage 4 and WW being KOS if they transform. These are the prices we pay for playing these types of characters.

Not to steel the thread, but I also think that for those who pre-ordered and got the ability to play any race in any faction, if you play a race that is not supported by the faction you chose, you should be looked down upon but not KOS (I know play anything other than a High Elf in AD and you already have this). I think there should be more immersion in that what race you are playing matters to the NPCs.

What you do for them should matter more, though I'm sure there will always be the game equivalent of racism.

I support the weak city guards doing nothing, but only on the basis of two things. First, the Vigilants of Stendar and the Worshipers of Meridia be introduced to hunt them down and attack them .

phreatophile wrote: »

To also be fair, I said a lot more than passive regens:

Yes, you did. I didn't address those because there was no need due to the circumstances you applied the changes to.

Don't worry, I didn't ignore them.

phreatophile wrote: »

Hamfast wrote: »

I fully expect it would incur a bounty as every time I have fed, the target of my feeding attacked me (forcing me to kill them) thus the bounty could be for either...

Then again, I guess we could test it, kill, feed and kill and Feed and run away... see what the bounty for each is...

If they decide to follow the pattern of the single player games, feeding on a sleeping NPC with no one observing will incur no bounty. There was also a charm spell that made it possible to feed on an awake NPC without agro-ing them incuring no bounty. In either case bounty/no bounty depends on who sees you. In Skyrim you could kill all the witnesses and have no bounty, doubt they'll go that far with it though.

I would be so freaking happy if they would add these things to this game! Right now I am not at all pleased with how vampires "work" and feel they desperately need some love.

phreatophile wrote: »

Sorry for the Necro, a little.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I would be so freaking happy if they would add these things to this game! Right now I am not at all pleased with how vampires "work" and feel they desperately need some love.

Looking at the Day 2 coverage over at Tamriel Foundry of the "Guild Summit", they speak extensively about the justice system.

What are the Repercussions of Crime?

Whether or not crimes are witnessed is the most critical condition resulting from a crime. If witnessed:
■NPCs will react to your crimes – All NPCs within the world will be given a personality. Some NPCs are cowardly and will run for shelter. Some brave NPCs will try and fight back. Certain NPCs might be mages, or werewolfs, and have skills that will be represented if a Outlaw engages them. This creates a more sandbox-y and dynamic environment.

This is looking promising.

What are the Crimes?
■Theft – either of personal property or pickpocketing. The team wants to be sure that any objects in the world are apparent, even without the use of UI elements, whether those items are owned or not. The chance to successfully pickpocket an NPC will change second-by-second as they undertake different actions which will prevent Outlaw players with “windows of opportunity” for theft.
■Trespassing - each town will have locked buildings that are owned by NPCs that live there. If you pick the lock you can go inside the house and break in. Once inside you can steal from or murder the NPCs who live within.
■Murder – currently, you will be able to attack anybody, but you will only be able to kill almost anybody. Quest critical NPCs, certain vendors, and travel-based NPCs will be immune to death.

I am concerned that assault doesn't appear on the list, if there's no difference between attacking and killing, it would pose a problem.

I'd like the option to drink an NPC without killing them preferably without even agro-ing them if done right.

I'd also like to be able to punch an annoying NPC into submission without the risk of killing them. Think Gothic 1-3, you could beatdown an NPC and they would drop but you had to do a finnishing move while they were down to actually kill them.

I am right there with you on your concerns, especially as this really does particularly pertain to vampires. I am just terribly, terribly afraid that they are going to totally IGNORE vampires and werewolves in the upcoming justice system leading to further disillusionment and loss of immersion for me than what I already experience.

I agree this is only a good idea if they increase the time it takes to reach stage 4.

OF course. Give the twilight fans their own city somewhere to rp together.

phreatophile wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

OF course. Give the twilight fans their own city somewhere to rp together.

Thanks for that excellent display of ignorance and garden variety forum trollery.

Every time I see this comparison, it tells me all I need to know about the one making the comparison. The drinker of blood dates back ,in legends, for many thousands of years, our more recent conception is a compilation of what Bram Stoker liked almost 200yrs ago, but some of you just can't help but tar that legacy with teen movie crap that most of us have shoes older than.

It's a popular comparison around here especially for folks who's epeen still hurts from the early DK talons/batswarm spam days. Build a bridge, Get over it.

Having played es games for many years, its fascinating to see the level of entitlement displayed by vamps. Go get your own game.

Lol mentionimg bram stoker does not absolve the rise to fame of vamps in teen culture.

I have enjoyed the story and movies since a kid, however es has the lore of its own and should not sell out to a bunch of teens yelling twilight and those older ones yelling beam stoker, or even Vlad. As I said go get another game. Vamps are not admired in this game, expect ramifications.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

phreatophile wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

OF course. Give the twilight fans their own city somewhere to rp together.

Thanks for that excellent display of ignorance and garden variety forum trollery.

Every time I see this comparison, it tells me all I need to know about the one making the comparison. The drinker of blood dates back ,in legends, for many thousands of years, our more recent conception is a compilation of what Bram Stoker liked almost 200yrs ago, but some of you just can't help but tar that legacy with teen movie crap that most of us have shoes older than.

It's a popular comparison around here especially for folks who's epeen still hurts from the early DK talons/batswarm spam days. Build a bridge, Get over it.

Having played es games for many years, its fascinating to see the level of entitlement displayed by vamps. Go get your own game.

Lol mentionimg bram stoker does not absolve the rise to fame of vamps in teen culture.

I have enjoyed the story and movies since a kid, however es has the lore of its own and should not sell out to a bunch of teens yelling twilight and those older ones yelling beam stoker, or even Vlad. As I said go get another game. Vamps are not admired in this game, expect ramifications.

What now?

You will find plenty of player in TES that have always played vampires since far before this "rise to fame of vamps in teen culture" , which has only happened in recent years mostly.

Not admired by you and some others. To me and plenty of others who have been playing vamp chars for more than 10 years in TES games i can assure you it is a important part of my char in this game.

The more you speak , the more you show him quite right.

Meh, you're a vamp. Why would you say otherwise?

Add to that the simple fact that reading a little of this thread would have shown Ser. Soup that some of us are begging for more consequences to being a Vampire.
If it was up to me:

Vampires would have some NPCs refuse to deal with us regarding quests and trade at stage 3

Guards in PVE and even our own faction guards in PvP would attack us at stage 4

Vampires would have ZERO health/stamina/magicka regen in daylight but lots of all three in the dark.

Amongst other refinements. Bottom line, I'd like it to be a pain in A to be a vampire, enough to make a lot of folks get cured. I'd like see far fewer of us especially in PVP. We're likely on the same side, but his contempt overpowers reason.

phreatophile wrote: »

Add to that the simple fact that reading a little of this thread would have shown Ser. Soup that some of us are begging for more consequences to being a Vampire.
If it was up to me:

Vampires would have some NPCs refuse to deal with us regarding quests and trade at stage 3

Guards in PVE and even our own faction guards in PvP would attack us at stage 4

Vampires would have ZERO health/stamina/magicka regen in daylight but lots of all three in the dark.

Amongst other refinements. Bottom line, I'd like it to be a pain in A to be a vampire, enough to make a lot of folks get cured. I'd like see far fewer of us especially in PVP. We're likely on the same side, but his contempt overpowers reason.

I wouldnt at all , for reason i already said on this very thread and i hope the devs wont change vampires to become something almost unplayable in the game also for reason i have already listed.

If this was a single player game i would accept the same rules , but it isnt , it is a MMO and that alone changes a lot of how it should work here.

Reason i think this first approach of zen is much better than just using the more usual TES rules.

We will see how they will keep going , both sides have added points now both sides can hope the devs decide.