I think abilities in games should always have 100% clarity, otherwise it gives people an unfair advantage for doing essentially what I would consider going outside of the game. Its just bad practice, and lack of clarity is not good. Then again, I also think the way they handled the speed boost in stealth issue was wrong. They should have created soft/hardcaps on such things like they do with magic, stamina, health or any other attribute. In this way they could have balanced things, while simultaneously giving players freedom. It also would make the systems clear. Clarity is good.

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

GwaynLoki wrote: »

GwaynLoki wrote: »

This has been discussed here: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/how-much-visible-damage-does-spell-damage-give/
Post number 15 (just reedited the part between the []):

"Class skills = [spell damage + max magicka] + spell crit (exception below)

Class melee range skills = [like above but:] melee crit not spell crit

Melee weapon skills = weapon damage + max stamina and melee crit

Staff weapon skills = weapon damage + max magicka and spell crit"

Except for exceptions. Is destructive touch spell crit or melee crit? How does it change when morped for range? What about impale? Ultimates scale with magicka/or stamina, what about their crit? What do mixed abilites scale with? Searing strike uses weapon crit for it's initial hit and spell crit for it's dot, bow abilities are stamina/melee crit for both initial hit and dot AFAIK and so on. Those things are based on completely arbitrary rules that never are actually explained in the game.

In any case, there is enough ambiguity here to warrant a tooltip update. All this information shouldn't be exclusively available outside the game. I don't expect full dps charts in the game natively, but I *do* expect the basics of the stuff I'm supposed to make a choice about, like gearing for what crit chance for instance.

I never meant to say this is a full explanation of all skill mechanics, just that it's a point to start at. I can assure you we want the same: A more clear explanation of how skills in this game work.

*carefullyapplieslogictoZenismessofagamemechanics*

Destructive Touch should in any case be using spell crit. Don't quote me on that though. Logic and Zeni are sometimes incompatible.

Edit: Found something on this topic: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/class-abilities-weapon-crit-vs-spell-crit/ #4

Cogo wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

No way in hell!

This is TES! Not any other MMO. You should NOT be know every little tidy bit of info about everything. THAT's that magic of TES.

No, the magic of TES is the flavour of the races and world, the way you get the racist jokes of Khajiit about Argonians and vice versa (Obviously it goes without saying you disapprove, but you get them), the way Nords dislike Dunmer, and the way Dunmer dislike them right back. The arrogance of Altmer (even before they rolled out the Thalmor), the plight of the Orcs, the Daedra abusing their worshippers.

That is the magic of TES.

Really? You need /sarcasm every time? @Cogo - very nice! LoL!!

AshySamurai wrote: »

Really? You need /sarcasm every time? @Cogo - very nice! LoL!!

I learned my lesson not to answer to way out of the loop treads. But Zeni is listenin to what we post here, and someone needs to make the statement that ESO is not about a recount sheet like WoW.

Read the description on your skills. That's more then enough. Doesn't work? Bug report it.

A big reason many play ESO is just that it is near impossible, in the longer run, to calculate "the best". Even for none RPers, its more about "flavour" and what suits you.

I am an orc, I take hits in the head and choose stuffs with honor. Not cause I RP, but it feels right. That it "WAS" a horrible race for tanking I didn't give a damn about.

I have so many lols since my bullheaded discussions here with the WoW crew and players who didn't see the vampire and shield bash OP, that a few more doesn't matter.

The OPs pic had to be responded by someone who said "NO WAY".
Put that on an addon for those who wish, but not in game.

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

No way in hell!

This is TES! Not any other MMO. You should NOT be know every little tidy bit of info about everything. THAT's that magic of TES.

lol u ever played Morrowind? it was full of different stats, I spend months calculating and theorizing how I would evolve my char, but they dumbed it down so much, until you got Skyrim ....

Cool! I spent those games playing for months. Not one second anything else then pure game play!

Oblivion was well made by since all mobs was your level no matter where you went. Made me stop playing after a while.

Skyrim was the first TES I modded. Steam have a "market" of mods where you can find mods that did not make everything easy and all girls naked.

1. Mob real level mod. Made all mobs their real level. All mobs in Skyrim was +-10. Was ok, but still wrong to solo a dragon at level 10. At low level, 3 wolves killed you and I was never able to kill another dragon other then the first, since guards helps on that one. Dragon where level 50-75-90 something?
2. Mods that added a monk class by adding to the Alternation tree. Still balanced.
3. Mods that added quests, items, dungeons etc, without unbalance stuffs to much.
4. Mods that made certain elements the danger they should be. Even though Giants hit hard...they should be a bit harder. And with proper evade/ac, those wolves does not do that much damage, even with correct level.

All these mods I found cause of a friend. Took an evening or so to check they work as intended. Then I enjoyed a spell sword monk who had to look out for all things in Skyrim, even at level 20+

Of course stuffs have stats. And I look at them when I choose skills, but they should be a guide what they do....Destruction Fireball does fire damage and AE damage. Increases with X item or X new perk? If it does 110 or 130 for 6% less magika then Bow X perk? No interest. I kill it or I don't!

When I want to increase my performance, I try new things. Some calculate....I attack stuffs!

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

No way in hell!

This is TES! Not any other MMO. You should NOT be know every little tidy bit of info about everything. THAT's that magic of TES.

No, the magic of TES is the flavour of the races and world, the way you get the racist jokes of Khajiit about Argonians and vice versa (Obviously it goes without saying you disapprove, but you get them), the way Nords dislike Dunmer, and the way Dunmer dislike them right back. The arrogance of Altmer (even before they rolled out the Thalmor), the plight of the Orcs, the Daedra abusing their worshippers.

That is the magic of TES.

I feking LOVE Nords! Both in Eastmarch and the ones I found and of course choose to save to Hollow city.

I am an orc, with my duty to the pact because of my history. Saved by argonians who was taken by Dark Elves slavers. I helped kill the dark elves and Argonians teached me their ways. Hence, An orc in the Pact, sword to protect this alliance even against my own kin. Honor and duty goes before my own life.

Nords are the only race who can drink, then fight light an orc! I respect them highly!

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

And let's not forget the most important thing: Trying different stuff in previous TES games on the PC platform did not cost you anything. You could just pop out the console and respec anything at will. I'm not talking about cheating here, just the option to revert some decisions that you might end up regretting.

In ESO, respecs of any kind cost you time, or gold - often both, and in large amounts. After making three alts, one in each faction and trying three different classes, I am very reluctant to start a new character to try the last remaining class. The game requires me to do almost every single quest to get XP to level up enough, and it plays very much the same the second time through, whereas in single player TES games I could pick a wildly different career for several alts, doing almost completely different quests and still reach level cap with all of them.

In previous TES games, I have had characters that never joined the Mages' or Fighters' Guilds (ortheir Skyrim equivalents), that never even started the main quest, that refused to do any evil or that were thieves and assassins. By design, ESO does not have anywhere near the same replayability.

Hi Stefan

I think we had this discussion before? I still have yet to respec even once. And sure, I got a lot of skills I have not tried yet.....that's the point.

You get alts, pick any skill there you didn't pick on the main? How is what forcing anything?

And since you may not know....you guys wun. Resp costs almost nothing and you can spec a morph only now... *sigh*.

The "not enough exp" does not hold anymore. There are so many ways you get exp now that even those of us who tries NOT to get any, before we explored the area we are in.....

single player TES games I could pick a wildly different career for several alts, doing almost completely different quests and still reach level cap with all of them.

Eh, you can do exactly that in ESO. Throw away your guide and look for the quests you have not found, which NOT show up in "quest done in Zone X".

Also. I just started my first alt for real about a month ago. More then half his exp comes from other sources then quests.

You do know you get 10% extra exp for grouping with someone? Killing mobs is to damn fast :-(

Since all the balancing, adding different things to all zones, ESO have a great replay value. Try whatever you want. MY Kakjiit nightblade is currently dual wield, heavy, with some medium and light robe and light boots. Works too good.....My aim was level 10 to play with newbie...he is 20.

New 1-50 Solo focused zone coming to ESO. Spell crafting, thieves and DB guild when they come and we don't know if they add more skills like they did to werewolves.

Champion system makes your char never "done". And you want to try wildly different things? Heh....Go nuts! There will be very few builds who are similar....

AshySamurai wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Really? You need /sarcasm every time? @Cogo - very nice! LoL!!

I learned my lesson not to answer to way out of the loop treads. But Zeni is listenin to what we post here, and someone needs to make the statement that ESO is not about a recount sheet like WoW.

Read the description on your skills. That's more then enough. Doesn't work? Bug report it.

Yeah, I read the description. But I still dont know, this skill work as intended or not because of poor information. I asked on a few forums(and not only me) about skill mechanics, but Zeni wont respond. Pity.
I can understand if you or someone else dont want to see this information in game, but for theorycrafters this information is important, and without any official information you may even dont know, that skill have a bug.
BTW, This is TES! Not any other MMO. You should NOT be know every little tidy bit of info about everything. THAT's that magic of TES. - cool new slogan for ESO. You, sir. made my day! I really loled))

Glad I could amuse you! I should add! ESO offers you to play your way. So "my" way isnt the best.

I just stated that detailed info should be on addons, not in game.

I know theorycrafting. And how important LOADS of stuffs are that you do not get yet. For example, only zenimax knows how battle really is calculated, right? What some might think is not working, may work as intended?

How do you, as theorycrafter, and your way to play DO belong in ESO (ok ;-) ).
How do you see on Champion system, adding 3 new skills to werewolves, constant balancing of ALL skills? (it wount stop ever), spell crafting, 2 new guild skill lines and all new different types of Gear/effects/sets etc that's coming?

Where there is not a set that's THE best....only different? Like the crafted ones you can do when you have 8 traits, may not be "the best" combo with something else?

How do you look at the fact, IF you calculated to the point and was 100% correct today, one skill that got fixed, changes it a bit? Is it ok to keep doing the numbers, as long as its balanced and added/fixed skills?

I am curious.....

Cogo wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

No way in hell!

This is TES! Not any other MMO. You should NOT be know every little tidy bit of info about everything. THAT's that magic of TES.

No, the magic of TES is the flavour of the races and world, the way you get the racist jokes of Khajiit about Argonians and vice versa (Obviously it goes without saying you disapprove, but you get them), the way Nords dislike Dunmer, and the way Dunmer dislike them right back. The arrogance of Altmer (even before they rolled out the Thalmor), the plight of the Orcs, the Daedra abusing their worshippers.

That is the magic of TES.

I feking LOVE Nords! Both in Eastmarch and the ones I found and of course choose to save to Hollow city.

I am an orc, with my duty to the pact because of my history. Saved by argonians who was taken by Dark Elves slavers. I helped kill the dark elves and Argonians teached me their ways. Hence, An orc in the Pact, sword to protect this alliance even against my own kin. Honor and duty goes before my own life.

Nords are the only race who can drink, then fight light an orc! I respect them highly!

Got to love a drunk Nord.

Cogo wrote: »

[
I know theorycrafting. And how important LOADS of stuffs are that you do not get yet. For example, only zenimax knows how battle really is calculated, right? What some might think is not working, may work as intended?

How do you, as theorycrafter, and your way to play DO belong in ESO (ok ;-) ).
How do you see on Champion system, adding 3 new skills to werewolves, constant balancing of ALL skills? (it wount stop ever), spell crafting, 2 new guild skill lines and all new different types of Gear/effects/sets etc that's coming?

Where there is not a set that's THE best....only different? Like the crafted ones you can do when you have 8 traits, may not be "the best" combo with something else?

How do you look at the fact, IF you calculated to the point and was 100% correct today, one skill that got fixed, changes it a bit? Is it ok to keep doing the numbers, as long as its balanced and added/fixed skills?

I am curious.....

I fail to see how any of that random stuff you just wrote is relevant to the question at hand.

1. There undeniably is lots of stuff that is broken. In other cases, tooltips are balatantly wrong or at least misleading, this shouldn't ever be the case, no matter how much you "want to play your way".
2. Stuff that has been proven to not work does not magically work in a way we are too simpleminded to comprehend, it just plainly doesn't work.
3. There is no magical "best combo with something else", the majority of traits are useless.
4. IF dps for a certain build has been calculated already and then something changes, you change the calculation accordingly. That does not defeat the point of the calculation at all.

This completely goes against their less is more approach. Besides, too much information like this will have players more aware of developers slipping in ninja changes, they can't have that. Keeping it vague keeps people in the dark.

Would love it but it will never happen.

While they're at it, they could add tooltips for the skills listed in the death recap screen. I have no wish to become an ESO encyclopaedia and sometimes have no clue what the skills that killed me are because I don't actively play all classes/weapon types and don't know the skills or their morphs.

Cogo wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

No way in hell!

This is TES! Not any other MMO. You should NOT be know every little tidy bit of info about everything. THAT's that magic of TES.

sorry bro but tes or not its an mmo and its competitive playstyle. you dont fight dump mobs but other living humans and you gota know what u are doing

Cogo wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

No way in hell!

This is TES! Not any other MMO. You should NOT be know every little tidy bit of info about everything. THAT's that magic of TES.

You mean the 'magic' that it took this guy using paint to make a mockup tooltipt for me to find out that Surprise Attack, which uses magicka and causes spell damage is actually mitigated by armor, instead of spell resist? Yeah, that's magical all right that I have to rely on game testers and mods to find out how my abilties work.

F yes, we need information like this. Seriously, there's no 'magic' in not knowing wtf your abilities do...