So, I came back after a couple months hiatus, and 2H is still disgustingly weak.

Jade1986 · September 2014

Does anyone know if they are EVER going to make it viable to be a pure melee stamina based character? I came back after a hiatus because I was sick of how underpowered pure melee builds are, only to find they are still ridiculously underpowered.....

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs · September 2014

Yep, duno why they just dnt add the the heavy armor line passive....

whilst using duel wield or 2h weapons except bow and staves, incresss dmg on attacks or something, this way it cant be op to tank specs or staves,bow

and then the warrior can be born.

charley222 · September 2014

laced wrote: »

Does anyone know if they are EVER going to make it viable to be a pure melee stamina based character? I came back after a hiatus because I was sick of how underpowered pure melee builds are, only to find they are still ridiculously underpowered.....

the skill line miss whirlwind the same of the first boss in Volenfell

Aenra · September 2014

since no one has mentioned this, in case you are not aware of it..

fully topped up Heavy Armour tree allows for some animation cutting and move comboing, making a difference. Will link you a good guide for starters:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/82974/two-handed-guide-how-to-increase-your-attack-speed

on top of that, i am not so sure what your gear or level is, ie if to -you- in specific it can be noticeable or not, you seem awfully vague; but there have been some buffs in this category in recent patches. Nowhere near an OP level, but then again, if you wanted the heavy armour boost, chances are you'd have expected to be lacking in some other factor would you not?

Aenra · September 2014

where is the edit button... honestly, is it my IE11 or just me..?

if your awfully vague OP refers to medium armour and 2H, my apologies, but unless we talk class and skills within class in specific..why bother

Surfinginhawaii · September 2014

I started my character as two-handed and used it all the way up to and including Molag Bol but was never happy with the damage output and the ability to take on multiple opponents. I switched to staves in Glenumbra but couldn't make it work for me, I found my character was too squishy. I then did sword and board for Stormhaven but my damage output was so low. Ever since Stormhaven I've been using Dual Wield and bow so my character is a stamina build.

Gillysan · September 2014

In your post, it's hidden until moused over, little cog pops up in top right corner area.

Also, I only use FF so not sure if IE11 is having troubles.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · September 2014

Actually they lowered the cast time for Wrecking Blow as now it's only down to 1 sec, I also believe that they lowered the cost in Stamina for some abilities..

If you are talking about the Magicka / Stamina imbalance they are slowly working on it.. maybe too slow for those that care about the imbalance but they are working on it..

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · September 2014

Aenra wrote: »

where is the edit button... honestly, is it my IE11 or just me..?

Put your mouse in the top right corner of your post, a little gear will appear, click it and then click edit.

Aenra · September 2014

Gillysan wrote: »

In your post, it's hidden until moused over, little cog pops up in top right corner area.

Also, I only use FF so not sure if IE11 is having troubles.

Thank you very much!
Sadly however, it is something i intuitively tried, nothing pops up when doing so..

jelliedsoup · September 2014

laced wrote: »

Does anyone know if they are EVER going to make it viable to be a pure melee stamina based character? I came back after a hiatus because I was sick of how underpowered pure melee builds are, only to find they are still ridiculously underpowered.....

Sad thing is it's probably 'stronger' than when you left.

Wicked_Wolf · September 2014

I don't understand why I can't just have what I always play in TES Games (nord, heavy armor, two hander, no magic at all, high damage but low health and no utility) or in all my other MMO's (warrior class, heavy armor dps/aoe low survivability).

This game lacks the very simple warrior class present in so many other games. You may be able to play it, but it won't work well and you have to use magica no matter what if you want class abilities. I just don't understand it.

And honestly; I know they're working on it but to me it seems INCREDIBLY slow. A few minor tweaks every other patch, we might get your basic warrior class in a few years.

lathbury · September 2014

Why if you wanted high damage low survivability would you think heavy armour? Surely that's medium armours bag with the passives it has.

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO · September 2014

I'd be happy with high damage, higher than average damage absorption and crappy dodge speed.

Make heavy melee dps cop more damage by not letting them get out of active effects like spells as quickly but able to take slightly more damage than medium compensate.

Would return the old school Elder Scrolls feel that armor weight affected the set more than the passives did.

Stratti · September 2014

I run with a guy who does Trials in 2handed and smashes it up - He does on the other hand have a tank, healer , stick dps, 2hand dps and duel weilder pretty much at trials level but he pushed big numbers he is a bit of a beast though when it comes to this game.

It can be done - research the right builds ask others and dont be afraid to change up to something you may not build towards to maximise your DPS output

Ghettobird52 · September 2014

Man this is scaring me

i just started playing the game and decided to roll DK because i always play large armor melee based characters. I am currently playing a 2h with some fire based magicka attacks. Im hoping that they fix this by the time im level 50!!!

lathbury · September 2014

2h Templars do good dps. As for making the class move faster or slower depending on armour weight. That would make light the best at dodging and magika dps . Heavy slow survivable and highest melee dps . So medium is for?
As it stands it seems the devs intended for heavy survivability , medium to boost weapon skills and light to boost magicka.
So to do high damage with a weapon don't rely on to much heavy gear mix it up a bit or suck it up and realise in full heavy you have created a tank not a dd.

Stx · September 2014

This game finally nailed the armor thing right. Medium armor should always out damage heavy armor... otherwise why would anyone use medium? You cant have more protection and more damage... that would be silly.

They could do something like Heavy gets more damage but medium gets more crits, and then medium gets some added defensive passives... but that would still make heavy armor much better in pvp.

You can dps in heavy armor currently if you want to... On my stamina character i have about 70% crit. Only 21% of that comes from Medium armor... so if you want to make a Heavy armor dps then do it. You can still max stamina, weapon damage, and stamina regen(regen will be hard to cap in heavy, but doable), and you will have to settle for 45-50% crit, which is still very high in PvE.

So you are trading stamina regen, and crit for increased armor, and other survival like block cost, increased healing, cheaper cc breaks, etc.

Seems fine to me.

As for 2 handers... all it needs is a main attack. Its got an AE, execute, gap closer, cc, and buff skill. Personally, I think they should remove Momentum(lets be honest, its pretty bad, especially with how easy it is to cap weapon power), and add a main attack with no damn requirements for the damage.

Mendoze · September 2014

I've been using bow/2h-sword combo to level my sorcerer to VR12 --> VR14. In PVE that 2-handed sword is and absolute beast and super fun to play with, and I can actually solo easier/faster than I do with single target spec magicka sorcerer. My bow skills were so low, that I've been just raising them with quest return XP.

PVP on the hand was a lot harder with 2-handed sword. The main problems at least for me were, that people can just easily block and spam instant casts at the same time, and critical surge does not work in PVP environment. With 2-handed weapon you are so squishy that it's not even funny, while your DPS is nothing spectacular, so I'm starting to believe that maybe 2-handed sword is not a viable option in PVP for a sorcerer.

Of course that was only the first impression, and I'm sure I'll get better with it with more practice or better build, but I still have to say, that melee seemed next to impossible against opponents who are blocking 100% of the time and/or spam Blazing Shield ( read DKs and Templars ). Against other classes it's a blast, where you take damage and dish damage, and finally there's only 1 man standing....so you win some and you lose some, but at least both had a good time

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO · September 2014

lathbury wrote: »

2h Templars do good dps. As for making the class move faster or slower depending on armour weight. That would make light the best at dodging and magika dps . Heavy slow survivable and highest melee dps . So medium is for?
As it stands it seems the devs intended for heavy survivability , medium to boost weapon skills and light to boost magicka.
So to do high damage with a weapon don't rely on to much heavy gear mix it up a bit or suck it up and realise in full heavy you have created a tank not a dd.

It doesn't have to. It could just be a cripple for heavy dps. Doesn't even have to affect tanks. There are more than enough skills that a morph could do it.

Stx wrote: »

This game finally nailed the armor thing right. Medium armor should always out damage heavy armor... otherwise why would anyone use medium? You cant have more protection and more damage... that would be silly.

Having different dps in different armor has been done a million times in millions of other games. How is pigeon-holing it good for a game in the Elder Scrolls universe which has always allowed almost unlimited combinations to work extremely well?

The first mistake they made in building this game was tying damage dealing traits to armor.

There literally are hundreds of ways they could make archetypal warriors in heavy armor work without making them indestructible and top dps. That this most basic of fantasy character archetypes hasn't been built properly is disappointing, doubly so because it is an Elder Scrolls title.

R0M2K · September 2014

2h actually has the highest damage opener from shealth, 1-shot unaware players.

Mumyo · September 2014

Well i got a stambuild with my templar and use 2h... its so awesome!!! in case they wanna block my wrecking blow i spam some jab and then its HOMERUN TIME!!!!

Rune_Relic · September 2014

Would this give you what you want ?

Fighter invested in health can be physical touch dps or tank
Mage invested in magicka can be soul touch dps or tank
Assassin/Thief in stamina get range/area/stealth/crit damaga/reflex saves along with viability in physical or magical damage.

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1273595

compuversal.com/eso/GAME_STATS.pdf

glitchmaster999 · September 2014

laced wrote: »

Does anyone know if they are EVER going to make it viable to be a pure melee stamina based character? I came back after a hiatus because I was sick of how underpowered pure melee builds are, only to find they are still ridiculously underpowered.....

Haven't read other comments yet but I use two hander/dual wield on my nightblade, the sneak attack with wrecking blow is about 5k in PVE but you can also get about 800-900 dps with two handed single targe by heavy attack canceling wrecking blow. I'm not saying it isn't weak because it is missing a lot but there are work arounds, I use it in trials for the execute.

Jade1986 · September 2014

Wicked_Wolf wrote: »

I don't understand why I can't just have what I always play in TES Games (nord, heavy armor, two hander, no magic at all, high damage but low health and no utility) or in all my other MMO's (warrior class, heavy armor dps/aoe low survivability).

This game lacks the very simple warrior class present in so many other games. You may be able to play it, but it won't work well and you have to use magica no matter what if you want class abilities. I just don't understand it.

And honestly; I know they're working on it but to me it seems INCREDIBLY slow. A few minor tweaks every other patch, we might get your basic warrior class in a few years.

Agreed, that's what I was going for, 2 handed heavy armor class. Even with the heavy armor buffs, you still die REALLY quick because the 2 handed skills that add "armor" add so little that you might as well not use them. If it takes years to get this sorted, I am sure I wont be the only one out.

Jade1986 · September 2014

glitchmaster999 wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Does anyone know if they are EVER going to make it viable to be a pure melee stamina based character? I came back after a hiatus because I was sick of how underpowered pure melee builds are, only to find they are still ridiculously underpowered.....

Haven't read other comments yet but I use two hander/dual wield on my nightblade, the sneak attack with wrecking blow is about 5k in PVE but you can also get about 800-900 dps with two handed single targe by heavy attack canceling wrecking blow. I'm not saying it isn't weak because it is missing a lot but there are work arounds, I use it in trials for the execute.

the thing is, we shouldn't have to use work arounds. As someone posted before heavy armor warriors are a staple of fantasy games, and forcing me to use medium armor or MAGIC like others are suggesting is not playing the game like I want to play, its playing it like they want me to play. You know, the whole selling point of this game.

GoatKnuckle · September 2014

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Actually they lowered the cast time for Wrecking Blow as now it's only down to 1 sec,

That's what the tooltip says, sure.

Now take your toon with your 2hand build and run out and go try that skill. Do what the Goat did ... count.

1 thousand 1 ... 1 thousand ..... then the uppercut goodness kicks in.

It's still longer than a second ... I think I remember the patch notes mentioned that the cast time was lowered from 2 seconds to 1.8 ... and that feels about right.

The tooltip of 1 sec is definitely not how the skill is currently working ... whether it is supposed to be 1 sec or the tooltip is just wrong .. who knows.

Jade1986 · September 2014

Can someone explain to me what they were thinking making skills cost more as you level up? I cant by any measure find any logic in that move. You would think your character would become tougher, faster, stronger, and more skilled in magic, but as it stands now they pretty much never become better.

LariahHunding · September 2014

R0M2K wrote: »

2h actually has the highest damage opener from shealth, 1-shot unaware players.

This is how I use my bloodmage NB in PVE. Sneak on the first mob, deliver 1800+ damage --> impale -->dead. Splash damage stuns the rest of the pack, Second attack the next mob before they know what hits them.
Animation canceling with heavy attack --> swallow soul increases dps.

Cogo · September 2014

laced wrote: »

Does anyone know if they are EVER going to make it viable to be a pure melee stamina based character? I came back after a hiatus because I was sick of how underpowered pure melee builds are, only to find they are still ridiculously underpowered.....

Hello Laced....

Yes, Stamina and 2H kicks arse. ESO is simply much more balanced and you can not find any Guide/addon/build that is the best today and not changed tomorrow.

Personal skill and how you play matters loads more.

Azzuria · September 2014

Not sure what class OP is playing.

My heavy-armor wearing Nord DK uses only 2-handers ( sword for stuff wut bleeds, axe for stuff wut don't, and daedra ) and last night in Eastmarch I was tearing through groups of 3 and 4, ar 3-4 levels above me, like hot snot through cheap kleenex. Bosses, too. If anything, it seems her DPS has been -boosted- with 1.4.3.