[Proposal] A "New" Community

DaniAngione · September 2014

Hello, ESO team (community & devs) and fellow players

I'm here with a proposal. A big one. One that will need the acceptance of everyone - players and moderators alike - if it is to be true.

Ok, so... Where does this come from? It comes from months and months reading those forums and years of experience on N online games (where N is a big number). More practically, it comes from this feeling I have everytime I see a moderator reply or a dev comment... The feeling of caution.

So, ESO team interacts a lot with the community. Some may think "No, they don't" but if you played enough games you'll know there are places where Devs or Mods NEVER post anything within the community. And there are places where they're pretty much part of the community itself... And this is what I'm here to propose.

So, about that "feeling of caution".
What I see:

From the ESO team perspective, they're cautious because everything they say and comment is like a ripple on a lake and will echo around with whole new meanings, interpretations and such... So yes, they have to be careful with what they say.

From the community perspective, they take anything the ESO team says and turn it into a whole new lot of "official information" (as I mentioned above) but maybe, maybe because they're always so cautious about what they say and do all the time. (not blaming them, it's necessary).

But it's also not the only approach. So, here's the example: the EVE Online community. Yes, it's a way older and different game, granted... But there's something there that's truly magical: Devs and moderators participate on most discussions as if they were really part of the community, just like us. They joke around, they comment on fun stuff, there's a whole new level of 'interaction' there that is really cool.

So, why do that?
Well, for the ESO team perspective, I'm pretty sure they sometimes wish they could reply to something, comment on a printscreen or just play around but "shouldn't". Well, they should. But they should do so without the pressure and the weight mentioned above (the "Cautious" thing) the community puts on them...
And that's our part; our commitment for this to work.

It's a matter of transparency - and transparency is essential if you want to form a great community. We might have a good community, ok, but a great community would have us side by side.

So this is my proposal for a better community. More freedom and fun for the ESO team and a more respectful/less demanding/expecting approach from the players. Right now we're in a cycle of "awareness" and only through a mutual commitment to make things better, more enjoyable and reasonable it will, eventually, naturally evolve into a tight and great community.

Of course, this is the way I see things, at least. Not everyone need to agree or anything. But I'd love to see this community thrive socially as well. We shouldn't act as a school of slaughterfish

Potenza · September 2014

All this positive thinking is making my brain hurt! - yes I agree with you.

LonePirate · September 2014

Let me wish you all the luck in the world for tackling the Herculean task of improving ZOS' interaction with its player community.

Garetth · September 2014

I have a proposal too. How about they just fix all the crap they have broken over the past 6 months. That would make alot of people happy and friendly!

GoatKnuckle · September 2014

Oh noes .. just what we need. Another community organizer talking about transparency ...

Naerayan · September 2014

Well said my friend, an from an EVE resident, well compared and good example indeed.

BBSooner · September 2014

This thread will be filled with proof for why transparency isn't in ZOS' best interest. The community isn't mature enough to have a frank discussion with.

DaniAngione · September 2014

BBSooner wrote: »

This thread will be filled with proof for why transparency isn't in ZOS' best interest. The community isn't mature enough to have a frank discussion with.

Yeah, well... No worries, shield is up. I expected some hate (or plain stupidity)

But still... I want to believe that the change can start from 'ZOS side' at least by acknowledgement

Elsonso · September 2014

It will never work here.

As you can see, many community members are already heavily invested in being negative about the game. This includes the Facebook and Twitter portions of the community, which likely involve the same people.

There is never a good reason to jump into threads just to tell the Developers to get back to work. There is never a good reason to be mean to the development team. Nothing productive comes from either of those things. I see this far too much.

My suggestion for improving the forum would be to make a Customer Complaint category that is not rolled up into any overviews or recent discussions list. Move the threads that turn into customer complaint rants to that Category. No one would ever see them unless they went looking for it and the people who like that sort of stuff can stew and hate in private.

Now you know why I am not a customer service lead.

LonePirate · September 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

There is never a good reason to jump into threads just to tell the Developers to get back to work. There is never a good reason to be mean to the development team. Nothing productive comes from either of those things. I see this far too much.

I will freely admit that my response inside the official poll thread for what the devs should show off in Craglorn was for them to work on new content instead of walking us through what is already in the game. That is a perfect place and reason why to tell them to get back to work, especially given how the first four updates and the upcoming fifth one contain pretty much no new content for me - a solo PVE player who also enjoys PVP. I pay my sub fee so I can receive regular, new content - and ZOS has failed to deliver on their end. I will rail against that for as long as I am a paying customer and this lack of content delivery continues.

I will agree there is seldom a reason to be mean to the developers as I firmly believe every one of them loves their job and this game. That being said, I will continue to speak out against the nameless decision makers who decide to release updates that are riddled with bugs (many of which were reported by players on the PTS) and who decide that the largest single group of players (solo/duo players) and another sizable group of players (PVPers) should go five or more updates without any meaningful new content (thus having their sub fees stolen or hoodwinked).

As for all of the bugs, I have no idea if the bug-filled releases are due to a management team that prioritizes deadlines over quality or if the development and/or the QA teams are out of their league. For instance, you can make up your own mind as to why the recent crafting bug couldn't be fixed in three weeks after it was reported on the PTS; but it could be fixed in two days after the update went live.

Similarly, I have no idea who decides or controls the vision of this game. I do know their vision seems to be completely out of touch with the vast majority of the player base. However, if ZOS would actually listen to their players as far as bugs and future content are concerned, then a lot of the negativity would be a thing of the past.

Curragraigue · September 2014

I'm just glad we have lost some of the boring negative posters that would go into all of the threads and whinge about their pet issue for the week while threatening to leave all the time and how the game was going to die. It made reading threads that started with a constructive discussion very tedious having to scroll though all of the fighting that usually followed those posts.

While we still have some annoying posts that just complain with no real objective or suggestions for improvement I think there has been a vast improvement over the last month and some optimism coming back which I really enjoy.

Great post OP, I hope one day we have just the people who want to play and not complain left on the forum so that we can have more intimate chats with ZOS. Unfortunately I don't think we are there yet.

Kalann_Pander · September 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

It will never work here.

I'm afraid you're probably right ...

lordrichter wrote: »

My suggestion for improving the forum would be to make a Customer Complaint category that is not rolled up into any overviews or recent discussions list. Move the threads that turn into customer complaint rants to that Category. No one would ever see them unless they went looking for it and the people who like that sort of stuff can stew and hate in private.

... but that might actually do the trick !

I'd enjoy more interactions with the game staff, if only to gain a better view into ESO's underlying principles, and for them to gain a better view of what we are expecting.

I don't feel it's going to happen right now, though. Not before the community stops having regular seize-ups whenever a patch is implemented

Atarax · September 2014

Nice concept, here's a suggestion:

Have the devs regularly post a list of things they're considering implementing (BEFORE they start programming), like they're doing here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129277/upcoming-werewolf-changes

(Great thread ZOS, what you're doing here is the right approach)

Then gather feedback from the community as to what they like and don't like (BEFORE they start programming), then they take that into consideration (BEFORE they start programming) and let the playerbase know what they ultimately decide.

Elsonso · September 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

I will freely admit that my response inside the official poll thread for what the devs should show off in Craglorn was for them to work on new content instead of walking us through what is already in the game. That is a perfect place and reason why to tell them to get back to work

I tend to disagree with you on this one point, but don't let that bother you

Remember that this broadcast is on a Friday night. The developers are likely off work and this is taking time out of their personal time. Also, any time the Devs actually get into the game is good. We want them in the game, with us, experiencing any bugs that we are experiencing.

LonePirate wrote: »

I will agree there is seldom a reason to be mean to the developers as I firmly believe every one of them loves their job and this game. That being said, I will continue to speak out against the nameless decision makers who decide to release updates that are riddled with bugs (many of which were reported by players on the PTS) and who decide that the largest single group of players (solo/duo players) and another sizable group of players (PVPers) should go five or more updates without any meaningful new content (thus having their sub fees stolen or hoodwinked).

Honestly, I once thought as you did. However, my job is not to project manage Zenimax. I'm enjoying the game and really that is all that matters. I can't make you go enjoy the game, but I can say that it is more fun now than it was when I was all concerned about the decisions that Zenimax was making.

That, I fear, is a problem on the forum. People are invested in getting some fix to some problem and it consumes them. People end up making posts that, when looked at objectively, are just mind blowing. They get so focused on some relatively trivial thing wrong in the game that they completely lose the ability to recognize how silly they sound. They have a legitimate beef with the game, but the response is off the wall.

Zenimax will improve the game. They are already improving the game. Update 4 was not perfect, but it was certainly better than Update 3. I am more than willing to give them quarter for Update 4 because it is an improvement. I can say this because I am no longer invested in trying to get them to change and am not focused on what they are doing wrong.

Now we see if they can carry though with Update 5. It is going to be a test for them, but it is theirs to fail, not mine. They know what they need to do; more quality in the face of more content. Meanwhile, I will be over here in East March.