Meh.

stamina builds does way too less dmg

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Poll is missing an "I realize they broke NB's cloak and stealth detection passives in 1.4 but are working on a fix for the next patch, so overall they are pretty decent when they are actually working as intended, though they could use some survivability options like a higher dodge chance or some shields like every other class" option.

That sounds a lot like the 2nd option, which was what I picked. : P

Vamp should be addressed separately so when people choose that they get that issue. NB should not be adjusted to fix a vamp issue.

Bouvin wrote: »

Just fix the bugs.

Maybe make Blue and Haste worth using. Other than those two skills class is fine.

Blue?

Only I have noticed a drastic decrease of the damage inflicted by all the skill of the Nightblade, is that the dual wield with pach 1.4?

Observation, even when I am slumming doing mats collection in the previous zone; if I don't get the drop on mob groups with size 3. I will get my ass kicked.

While I am pretty unsatisfied with how Nightblades handle in PvP, I have to say that I haven't had may qualms with their PVE performance on standard content.
While I agree with some who find them a little underpowered vs groups of mobs, I expect that from a single target melee DPS build, which is what mine is. I am not a hardcore trial runner, so I don't know how they stack out on that content.

Basically, my main grief with NB is that for a class that has its concept built around stealth, we have very little actual advantage at being stealthy. Every class in this game can go into sneak, and get crits from behind at least on physical attacks. So while we have buffs to our effectivesness on stealth attacks, we don't have any actual advantage at being stealthy. This means I feel like the stealth play style doesn't stand out, since pretty much everybody uses it in some way. While I realize this is a TES game, where everyone can do everything, if you're going to bother having classes, they need to be distinct and balanced in what they offer to combat.

And overall, I feel like the variety of possible builds this game has to offer across class has been poorly balanced for PvP. The result is that the single target melee DPS abilities that are the focus of the NB line end up feeling inconsequential in PvP. Not neccessarily ineffective on a 1v1 basis, but too slow and cumbersome to make use of to contribute to a fast paced large scale battle.

Me being a stamina build NB and being burned to the ground in this last patch, then having Zenimax say they don't plan on fixing them till next patch made me bite the bullet and buy Destiny on the PS4. If that game is as good as it claims to be Zenimax can kiss my sub goodbye, and likely won't be coming back till the game is released on the consoles, stamina builds are properly fixed and the PC to Console transfer is an option.

Crazy that I've sunk this much time into the game, been playing since beta and to have no desire to log in when I have free time.

In general, I think if you do a comparison with other classes actives and passives, considering morphs, you will quickly see a few things:

Cons:
-Our ability to burst heal ourselves (NOT using resto staves, we're talking the class by itself) is the worst of any class; the only ability that comes close is sap essence, which only can serve that function if you're in a large pack of enemies, and if that pack is players, it's not enough to matter
-Our ability to mitigate damage is also the worst of any class (DKs get everything we get, only aoe, or 100% vs. our 15% as an example)
-Our CC / debuff skills are the worst of any class (DK and Sorc both get knock-downs, templar knockback, our only equivalent is a morph stun that only works if no one has mage light running, or a single target1 second immobilize forgiving up a better morph but DK & sorc get aoe immobilize that lasts longer on all morphs, DK long-duration CC that not only doesn't break on damage, but it's instant cast, whereas ours is long duration, and only has one viable morph if you want to keep the same critter locked down otherwise they get dotted and break instantly, DK can snare stuff aoe due to passives, whereas we get a single target snare other than our ultimate, or lotus fan, etc. etc.)
-Our spells and abilities cost (considering passives, sorc and Templar both get a reduction) the highest along with DK; DK get a big bump on magicka and stamina whenever they use an ultimate though, and also have other ways to get resources back that are equivalent to ours
-Our ultimates cost the highest (considering passives, sorc and templar both get a reduction in this cost for example); sorc, dk, and templar can all generate ultimate faster; we can only catch up somewhat if we slot soul harvest

Pros:
-We have arguably one of the best, if not the best, ultimates (veil of blades)
-We have the best group damage buff in the game for fighting packs of enemies (sap essence)
-We hit like a truck on the first attack out of stealth, assuming we get the drop on the enemy, if it's concealed weapon, we also stun with that attack
-We do really good damage on single target, low-health, enemies (if assasination is slotted)
-We can regenerate stamina and magicka pretty well if we're willing to reduce our damage output by 20%, useful for tanking or to turn on when getting low on resources in sustained fights
-Cloak is handy when it actually works, most things make it not work now, we'll see how it functions after the patch, mage-light is an ability that makes cloak worthless though, and it's a toggle
-We make decent single-target tanks with a good healer given our debuffs are mostly single target; we can also tank trash mobs pretty well with sap essence + siphon

For the NBs who seem to think we're balanced, I'd recommend playing some of the other classes or at least studying their abilities. It's rather depressing once you do the math

FIX DARK CLOAK. broken from the beginning, this is outrageous.
night silence broken AGAIN. man.... what do they know about frustration?

Atarax wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Mass hysteria - one of the best CCs in PVP actually.

I disagree and I'm looking at it overall, not just pvp; mass hysteria has a lot of limitations (short duration, only works if close, and sends them scattering out of range if you're a melee for starters) and does not inflict damage, unlike other class ccs. Nice try though.

I agree with you Atarax. While i have had it used on me, i find it only a minor annoyance and can just TP strike right back in their face in 2 secs.

-No, it only reduces damage by about 11%. This is because your weapon/spell damage only accounts for half of the damage output of any attack.

I haven't tested it to confirm one way or the other, tooltip says 20%. Either way, it doesn't change the fact we're the only class sacrificing 10% or more damage across the board to regenerate resources.

Well I believe it says 22% but when looking at my numbers its closer to 12%......w/o Siphon on my weapon is OCed at 212 and with it on it's 188.

There are also variables like what's going on in your home campaign that could account for that 10% variance because my weapon damage has dropped as low as 173 before.

I am a DW NB. I run almost full melee on both bars and tend to run about 80/20 (mag/stam) in PvP and about 60/40 in PvE.

This build is a bit boring when in siege situations because I have no real ranged abilities but between using siege and watching out for gankers I keep myself busy. I have thought about picking up a bow but I do not want to have to replace my second bar every time I move between PvP and PvE (which is often). Would like a bar replacement feature! That would open up a lot more possibilities for builds.

In PvE I'm quite pleased with my build and how I function but do find flopping between weapons occasionally challenging (not to mention having to have 2 sets of the same damn daggers!....that's damn expensive for gold)

Speaking of Daggers.......it really sucks to have my 60% crit negated by everyone running around with Imp on their armor. I spent a LOT of skill points and item investment only to have that wiped by traits.

Take Hundlings Set as an example...you get an 8% crit boost from 4 pieces but that is completely wiped out with a single Imp on one item? It's BS I tell ya. If I spec for crit I should be able to get some advantage in PvP.

I also run 5 med / 2 lt armor (to get a bit more of a magicka boost. Wish I could run full med but considering my magicka costs I just can't justify it (also can't justify even med armor but.......). Why on EARTH every classes abilities are tied to magicka and then you stick the magicka skill boosters on LIGHT armor. It's just stupid to have stats tied to a specific armor type when class abilities FAR outshine stamina ones.......you wonder why everyone wears a skirt?

My biggest problem however with this build is I have to manage both magicka/stamina AND both types of damage. I went the weapon damage route since most of my skills are <7 meters but that leaves things like my TP strike and Soul harvest somewhat weak because they work off of the spell damage stat.

Would be nice if ALL your abilities (stam and class) worked off of whichever damage stat was the highest.

Everything Atarax above me stated was spot on about the class though.

- Our CCs are hard stuns so in PvP they can easily be negated with a simple rollout (even an ultimate stun). Other classes have much better tools. We should have a MUCH better ability to CC.
- I do NOT get why Sorc have WAY more survivability in a freakin' melee fight than we do? Really frustrating to be in a Sorc's face trying to melee them down and have them be able to shrug off all that damage (and then impulse/bat swarm/fire ring spam me to death in 5 secs) when traditionally they should be at a decided DISadvantage.
- Both Sorc and DKs are the kings at AoE's where we only have one, VoB. Yes it's good but it would be nice to have something that we can spam. I currently have to rely on my DW abilities for a poor AoE.
- I don't understand why other classes can sneak better than we can just by being a Vamp. Well what if I don't want to be one? My class should be better than a damn "optional" lifestyle (i.e. Vampires). We really should be masters of sneaking sans vampire. We should have a general passive in Shadow that boosts sneak by 50% at lvl 2. (yes I know about Concealed blade but why should I have to take once specific skill to get a small boost for something the class should have as a whole?)
- Our Invisibility lasts an incredibly short period of time. I have to reapply it every 2.9 secs and quickly run out whereas a Sorc can BE till the cows come home? For the cost involved Invis should be bumped to 5-6 secs duration.

It's almost as if the Devs are afraid to put NB's on par with the other classes so we are intentionally gimped.

Addendum

Thought of two things that are really bugging me......

- WHY are NBs the only ones tied to a slow sneak/stealth mechanic? I find this funny because in PvE, I have to go into sneak mode which takes 2-3 secs (or burn my magicka to stealth already putting me at a net loss). By that time the rest of the group has already charged in guns blazing. We then can't go back into sneak mode while in combat.
- And I have NEVER crit from stealth. The only crits I get are from sneak or normal, in your face combat. If I stealth and get behind the opponent I should get a crit bonus.

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Poll is missing an "I realize they broke NB's cloak and stealth detection passives in 1.4 but are working on a fix for the next patch, so overall they are pretty decent when they are actually working as intended, though they could use some survivability options like a higher dodge chance or some shields like every other class" option.

Let me know when they are actually working as intended, since that has yet to happen.

They can do well in PvE and some of the nobrainer-instagib-builds in PvP. Sustained builds in PvP? Maybe if Cloak works one day.
5 months and counting.